Losing weight too sliwly
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@cmriverside We must always ask ourselves, just how much of your weekly progress are you willing to give up.
I ask myself that, for real. 4 -
cmriverside wrote: »tomcustombuilder wrote: »
I was involved in the BB.com forum for 15 years and there were a decent amount of people coming over from MFP with the same problem, can't lose weight. After diving into it with them they were using food numbers that were incorrect, as most would just choose the entries with the lowest amounts and were way overestimating their workout calories. Once they were told how to dial things in they started seeing progress. One of the main factors was they stopped eating back workout calories and besides being more accurate with their overall deficit numbers it also simplified the process.Retroguy2000 wrote: »
Yes, use a conservative estimate for the workout calories. For several reasons, those estimates can be too high. If you want a 250 daily deficit, and you estimate 500 burned in a workout which was actually 250, there goes your planned deficit.
Food for thought and nothing more....
You don't think we see those same people here?
Undereating is a problem as well.
Know your audience. You're more than welcome to give your, "Don't eat exercise calories," advice over on BB.com.
Why do you want to create problems here, though? I mean, this lady has only a few pounds to lose and you're telling her that it's A-OK to ignore the recommended calories and eat under that amount.
Then she'll be posting that, "I can't stop binging. Why am I not able to stick to this [too extreme] deficit?"
I just don't see how you're helping. Yes, she has a tiny deficit. Yes, exercise calories do get inflated and food database items can be wrong but why also tell her, "The site sucks, basically. Use MY numbers instead." If she uses it as it is supposed to be used at least she'll have good data to make decisions. Your way will have her all over the place, under-eating then over-eating.
Just log the food, log the exercise, watch the trends and adjust. Once she knows her actual calorie needs (not WW points) then she can do what she wants.
The "eat exercise calories" "wait, no, don't eat exercise calories!" "Wait, eat, some, but not all, your exercise calories, while standing in a sumo squat" argument is one that's never going to end on here. Neither way is right or wrong, honestly, because most people, yes, even people on here, are dramatically miscalculating both their food and exercise calories, and always will. So really, it doesn't matter either way. I've never, not once, eaten back exercise calories.2 -
lol, right?sollyn23l2 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »tomcustombuilder wrote: »
I was involved in the BB.com forum for 15 years and there were a decent amount of people coming over from MFP with the same problem, can't lose weight. After diving into it with them they were using food numbers that were incorrect, as most would just choose the entries with the lowest amounts and were way overestimating their workout calories. Once they were told how to dial things in they started seeing progress. One of the main factors was they stopped eating back workout calories and besides being more accurate with their overall deficit numbers it also simplified the process.Retroguy2000 wrote: »
Yes, use a conservative estimate for the workout calories. For several reasons, those estimates can be too high. If you want a 250 daily deficit, and you estimate 500 burned in a workout which was actually 250, there goes your planned deficit.
Food for thought and nothing more....
You don't think we see those same people here?
Undereating is a problem as well.
Know your audience. You're more than welcome to give your, "Don't eat exercise calories," advice over on BB.com.
Why do you want to create problems here, though? I mean, this lady has only a few pounds to lose and you're telling her that it's A-OK to ignore the recommended calories and eat under that amount.
Then she'll be posting that, "I can't stop binging. Why am I not able to stick to this [too extreme] deficit?"
I just don't see how you're helping. Yes, she has a tiny deficit. Yes, exercise calories do get inflated and food database items can be wrong but why also tell her, "The site sucks, basically. Use MY numbers instead." If she uses it as it is supposed to be used at least she'll have good data to make decisions. Your way will have her all over the place, under-eating then over-eating.
Just log the food, log the exercise, watch the trends and adjust. Once she knows her actual calorie needs (not WW points) then she can do what she wants.
The "eat exercise calories" "wait, no, don't eat exercise calories!" "Wait, eat, some, but not all, your exercise calories, while standing in a sumo squat" argument is one that's never going to end on here. Neither way is right or wrong, honestly, because most people, yes, even people on here, are dramatically miscalculating both their food and exercise calories, and always will. So really, it
doesn't matter either way. I've never, not once, eaten back exercise calories.
The exercise calories addition feature is a nice feature if that is something you want to utilize however it isn’t necessary if you have a formula that works without it.
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sollyn23l2 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »tomcustombuilder wrote: »
I was involved in the BB.com forum for 15 years and there were a decent amount of people coming over from MFP with the same problem, can't lose weight. After diving into it with them they were using food numbers that were incorrect, as most would just choose the entries with the lowest amounts and were way overestimating their workout calories. Once they were told how to dial things in they started seeing progress. One of the main factors was they stopped eating back workout calories and besides being more accurate with their overall deficit numbers it also simplified the process.Retroguy2000 wrote: »
Yes, use a conservative estimate for the workout calories. For several reasons, those estimates can be too high. If you want a 250 daily deficit, and you estimate 500 burned in a workout which was actually 250, there goes your planned deficit.
Food for thought and nothing more....
You don't think we see those same people here?
Undereating is a problem as well.
Know your audience. You're more than welcome to give your, "Don't eat exercise calories," advice over on BB.com.
Why do you want to create problems here, though? I mean, this lady has only a few pounds to lose and you're telling her that it's A-OK to ignore the recommended calories and eat under that amount.
Then she'll be posting that, "I can't stop binging. Why am I not able to stick to this [too extreme] deficit?"
I just don't see how you're helping. Yes, she has a tiny deficit. Yes, exercise calories do get inflated and food database items can be wrong but why also tell her, "The site sucks, basically. Use MY numbers instead." If she uses it as it is supposed to be used at least she'll have good data to make decisions. Your way will have her all over the place, under-eating then over-eating.
Just log the food, log the exercise, watch the trends and adjust. Once she knows her actual calorie needs (not WW points) then she can do what she wants.
The "eat exercise calories" "wait, no, don't eat exercise calories!" "Wait, eat, some, but not all, your exercise calories, while standing in a sumo squat" argument is one that's never going to end on here. Neither way is right or wrong, honestly, because most people, yes, even people on here, are dramatically miscalculating both their food and exercise calories, and always will. So really, it doesn't matter either way. I've never, not once, eaten back exercise calories.
Yes, it's an ongoing discussion.
Riverside is right about the way the site is designed.
And I've eaten back every carefully estimated exercise calorie, all through losing from obese to a healthy weight in just under a year, and in 7+ years of maintenance since.
The TDEE method (not eating back exercise calories, averaging them in instead) can work great, especially for a person who has a consistent exercise schedule, or fairly minor exercise with a non-hyper-aggressive loss rate . . . or, actually even just for someone who prefers to have the same calorie goal every day.
For people like me, who have seasonal and weather (or other) variability in exercise schedules to a meaningful degree, or who will have breaks when they can't exercise (surgical recovery, illness, job demands, whatever), or are more hungry on exercise days . . . the MFP base calories + exercise method works great.
The MFP method is also excellent for people who find that a fitness tracker synced to MFP reflects their calorie needs quite well . . . as many people will, because those things estimate based on population averages, and most people are close to average by definition.
I agree that we see stories like Tom describes, lowballing food logging, overestimating exercise too optimistically. We also see stories where people don't consider exercise and just let it increase deficit, who end up at an unsustainable extreme deficit . . . or people who are going along great on a TDEE-based goal then something changes in their activity level and they can't understand why they're gaining on a calorie level that worked well previously.
Add exercise to a non-exercise base (MFP method), or average in exercise (TDEE method): It's a choice. Either method can succeed.
What I think a person ought to want to do is be clear about how their method of choice works, and how to adjust in a "good science fair project" kind of way to dial in desired results over time. Mixing the methods, or confusing how they're supposed to work - not helpful.7 -
Knowing myself, if I didn't eat back any exercise calories then it increases my likely deficit to the point that I become more likely to binge sooner and more severely than when I manage a smaller deficit by eating back a conservatively estimated amount of workout calories.
Plus there are times when I have a deload week, and if I do say 60% of the usual weights volume then calories expended aren't going to be much different, but if I take multiple days off, or if I'm traveling and unable to work out, then maintaining an increased MFP activity level to account for assumed workouts that aren't happening would be bad for me.
I suspect bodybuilders have better self-control while cutting than the average person does.6 -
I've long wondered about the "social club" aspect of various methods. I mean THIS is a social club too, I guess, but I've long wondered about people who seem to me that they would rather talk about their weight loss attempts vs doing something about it.
And I've long wondered about the zero calories foods. I mean my yogurt "pot" is almost 500 Cal. The fruit plate on the infographic is a good 500 Cal. The three fried eggs closer to 250 than anything. Not sure about popcorn but if that plate was full of corn... and wow on the beans, peas, and lentils. I mean out of all of them the closest to "zero" calories would be the veggies and the shellfish, I guess; but, has anyone checked out farmed salmon calories?
Yeah: no. Free foods ARE NOT.8 -
Even when you know how to use the tool perfectly well life can get in the way. And it can do so both to make you gain and to lose in unwanted/unhealthy ways. In my case it was my approach of being pretty harsh with myself in terms of purposely overestimating how much I was eating and underestimating/ignoring how much I was exercising (instead of the opposite) that is causing me a bit of grief now.
I weighed everything to the extent possible (in grams) and never paid attention to exercise calories when losing bc I did not want to be overly optimistic about exercise and underestimate calories consumed. I lost at a steady state of about 1 lb a week even though I was eating a level of calories that would have predicted a higher rate of loss at various points. The low calorie consumption was partially unintentional, I had a particularly rough time in the last couple years caring for elderly relatives and would miss meals and taking care of my own health properly even though I was logging etc. I think the weight loss didn’t go more rapidly (like 2lbs per week instead of 1 when I was under eating) because I was just getting closer and closer to goal. It was not my intention to lose any faster, but one might have expected it. Before you say I was just logging improperly and underestimating calories, read on …
When I intended to stop losing I apparently miscalculated maintenance bc I continued to lose. I think it is partially bc I did not ever pay attention to how much I move ( I claimed to be sedentary bc I work as a professor, but I also take care of 3 elderly people (with help) which surprisingly requires at least as much running around as caring for toddlers - in this case you aren’t chasing — mostly fetching and cleaning and lifting and adjusting . . . Constantly. Plus doing everything you have to do for the rest of your family,)
On the eating front, having lost a lot of weight I was afraid to adjust calories upwards too much because there isn’t a lot of play between losing and maintaining — as a result I kept losing until I am actually underweight now and seriously trying to regain. I am trying to do so by adding muscle (which I need for eldercare and my own health) not just fat (which of course I could easily do - and did for a few quick pounds to get back closer to a healthy BMI).
I still think it is useful to have both elements — food and exercise — calculated and adjustable separately. The more customizable to each person’s needs mfp is the better. And having the option of going out to exercise and eating back some calories might get some people who don’t otherwise exercise to move a bit more. Of course that doesn’t mean any one of us will use the tool perfectly or even correctly, but that is a function of our own desire to trick ourselves (or a measure of how well we know ourselves!) and no tool can fix that
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This is an awesome discussion.2
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tomcustombuilder wrote: »This is an awesome discussion.
But no longer on point to OP's question, at least not in any direct way.0 -
Well that went by the wayside early on.
well that went by the wayside early on. Hopefully OP was able to decipher through it all to shoot for a bigger deficit by whatever means necessary.tomcustombuilder wrote: »This is an awesome discussion.
But no longer on point to OP's question, at least not in any direct way.
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Well to be fair that happens with MFP too
people who log faithfully for 6 days then blow it all on 1 cheat day.0 -
tomcustombuilder wrote: »Well that went by the wayside early on.
well that went by the wayside early on. Hopefully OP was able to decipher through it all to shoot for a bigger deficit by whatever means necessary.tomcustombuilder wrote: »This is an awesome discussion.
But no longer on point to OP's question, at least not in any direct way.
FWIW, I share the perspective that the WW free foods/points issues are most likely to be the big deal here. It sounded like OP was going to start actually counting calories, so things will probably sort themselves out.
She still will have the normal calorie counting learning curve, but she sounds like a smart person who can sort that out. If there are still obstacles after she counts for a month or so, I hope she'll post again, not be discouraged from doing so by the meandering of this thread.
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tomcustombuilder wrote: »You’re in a tiny deficit. If you’re figuring in exercise calories into your daily equation, stop and don’t figure exercise calories. That will help by not allowing those calories to go into your daily allowance. That will help some but possibly not enough as those calories won’t be a lot when figured in your weekly TDEE which is total calories burned through your BMR, NEAT. (Daily movements that aren’t exercise), and your exercises. You will probably have to also lower your weekly calories a bit.
I think it would be better for her to change one variable at a time, and that one to go from WW points system to MFP actually logging all calories.
When people are new to MFP I believe in keeping it simple and not introducing TDEE, etc., at this point.
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Actually, 146 is not that heavy so I think you are probably so close to your goal weight that loss will be slow.
That said, who told you that your weight should be 136? Are you using the CDC BMI calculator on the internet? That is a guide but the result isn't based on YOU. Your body composition, age, gender so many variables.
As for WW, I was on WW for years. Overall, I think it is a good program at least in comparison to others. It 2021, I rocked it. I got frustrated with the annual program changes. They justified them with "science", they learn every year. Yes, science learns but not so quickly that changes must be implemented every January! I finally realized it was all just marketing...attempts to get more members during New Year's Resolution time. I decided that, though I am not a nutritionist, I have learned enough over the years to know what foods are good for me and what are junk. MFP is free so here I am.
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You should be proud of yourself. 7 lbs is great. Also, I’m under the impression that not everyone here giving you advice are experts. Many are still trying to figure stuff out themselves. Plenty of people have success with WW and this is why it’s been around for so long. Why don’t you stick to exactly what you have been doing and then make small adjustments such as consistently walking 2500-3000 steps more a day. If you decide to take this advice please report back in 45 days. Good luck 0
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drjeff0609 wrote: »You should be proud of yourself. 7 lbs is great. Also, I’m under the impression that not everyone here giving you advice are experts. Many are still trying to figure stuff out themselves. Plenty of people have success with WW and this is why it’s been around for so long. Why don’t you stick to exactly what you have been doing and then make small adjustments such as consistently walking 2500-3000 steps more a day. If you decide to take this advice please report back in 45 days. Good luck
So, you're putting yourself up as the expert? I think you'd be surprised at the depth of knowledge in this thread.
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cmriverside wrote: »drjeff0609 wrote: »You should be proud of yourself. 7 lbs is great. Also, I’m under the impression that not everyone here giving you advice are experts. Many are still trying to figure stuff out themselves. Plenty of people have success with WW and this is why it’s been around for so long. Why don’t you stick to exactly what you have been doing and then make small adjustments such as consistently walking 2500-3000 steps more a day. If you decide to take this advice please report back in 45 days. Good luck
So, you're putting yourself up as the expert? I think you'd be surprised at the depth of knowledge in this thread.
Of course not, How can anyone compare to your level of insight and expertise. You are a rock star, it’s very obvious
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drjeff0609 wrote: »You should be proud of yourself. 7 lbs is great. Also, I’m under the impression that not everyone here giving you advice are experts. Many are still trying to figure stuff out themselves. Plenty of people have success with WW and this is why it’s been around for so long. Why don’t you stick to exactly what you have been doing and then make small adjustments such as consistently walking 2500-3000 steps more a day. If you decide to take this advice please report back in 45 days. Good luck
Well, actually, on this thread almost all the responders are seasoned posters. As you pointed out, that does not mean they are 100% correct all the time. We do our best. Your response is a good one. Keep posting, we need new viewpoints.3 -
drjeff0609 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »drjeff0609 wrote: »You should be proud of yourself. 7 lbs is great. Also, I’m under the impression that not everyone here giving you advice are experts. Many are still trying to figure stuff out themselves. Plenty of people have success with WW and this is why it’s been around for so long. Why don’t you stick to exactly what you have been doing and then make small adjustments such as consistently walking 2500-3000 steps more a day. If you decide to take this advice please report back in 45 days. Good luck
So, you're putting yourself up as the expert? I think you'd be surprised at the depth of knowledge in this thread.
Of course not, How can anyone compare to your level of insight and expertise. You are a rock star, it’s very obvious
LOLOLOL
Finally.
Someone who gets me.
It is always so enlightening for us when someone comes in and is an expert, so if you have the expertise, by all means elaborate! Just making back-handed lightly veiled insulting remarks doesn't really say much.
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cmriverside wrote: »drjeff0609 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »drjeff0609 wrote: »You should be proud of yourself. 7 lbs is great. Also, I’m under the impression that not everyone here giving you advice are experts. Many are still trying to figure stuff out themselves. Plenty of people have success with WW and this is why it’s been around for so long. Why don’t you stick to exactly what you have been doing and then make small adjustments such as consistently walking 2500-3000 steps more a day. If you decide to take this advice please report back in 45 days. Good luck
So, you're putting yourself up as the expert? I think you'd be surprised at the depth of knowledge in this thread.
Of course not, How can anyone compare to your level of insight and expertise. You are a rock star, it’s very obvious
LOLOLOL
Finally.
Someone who gets me.
It is always so enlightening for us when someone comes in and is an expert, so if you have the expertise, by all means elaborate! Just making back-handed lightly veiled insulting remarks doesn't really say much.
Like I said, you clearly know what you are talking about with so many posts right? Member since 2007. I only learnt about MFP around 2 years ago so what do I know.
All joking aside, I’m sure some of your posts have indeed helped many people who post in their forums so kudos to you.
Anyway, have a nice day.
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