Going vegan
capgordon5385
Posts: 15 Member
Anyone else doing this looking to get great ideas and hit the macros
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Replies
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I have a huge pile of vegan cookbooks. The problem of some of them is that they're low in protein. I'm not vegan and often add some more protein of choice. Is there a specific reason why you chose vegan? For ethical reasons is probably the best reason there is. But being vegan doesn't lead to weightloss. Actually, I find that many vegan or vegetarian proteins are higher in calories than meat. And vegan chicken/sausage/whatever tends to be very high in calories and salt. Nothing inherently wrong with that if you enjoy eating those, but just as a note.1
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Why?
There are lots of good reasons to become vegan (the full animal-exploitation avoidance lifestyle) or to eat fully plant based (the dietary part, but maybe still wear leather & such).
It's not more healthy than being an omnivore, and it's a complete tangent for weight loss. (Advocacy sites will argue otherwise.)
I'm not a shill for Big Meat, BTW: I'm not fully plant based/vegan, but I've been vegetarian for 48+ years so far, basically my entire adult life (since age 18). I have a decent understanding of the nutritional issues for plant-based eating, because I have a lot of that going on, even though I do still include some dairy and eggs (ovo-lacto vegetarian).
Fully plant based eating makes getting good nutrition slightly more difficult (requires a bit more conscious attention), plus makes social life (and maybe travel) slightly more complicated. Those are not big obstacles, if a person has strong reasons to go that route.
Whether it's worth doing is very individual. IMO, most of the good reasons are ethical or moral . . . and that's not a criticism. Not even close.
If you do decide to go that route, be very cautious about the claims of some advocacy sites. This is a very good resource for a science-based view of vegan nutrition, a site with content from registered dietitians who themselves are vegan:
https://veganhealth.org/
Check out the "Tips for New Vegans" - prominent link on the first page - there.
Best wishes!
ETA: I'm not remotely affiliated with that site in any way, for the record. I've just found it a sound mainstream source of nutritional information, in its scope.3 -
I hear u thanks for the advice . Am definitely cutting out the meat cause I've been eating vegitarian/vegan meals for the last few weeks and I feel good plus the food tastes awesome .4
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capgordon5385 wrote: »I hear u thanks for the advice . Am definitely cutting out the meat cause I've been eating vegitarian/vegan meals for the last few weeks and I feel good plus the food tastes awesome .
make sure you're supplementing B12 as you won't be getting any in your food if you are strictly plant based. I would also recommend getting your iron tested when you have your annual checkups as anemia is very common amongst vegans and vegetarians due to the lack of meat in the diet. Kind of SOL on EPA and DHA Omegas so make sure you're getting plenty of ALAs.1 -
capgordon5385 wrote: »I hear u thanks for the advice . Am definitely cutting out the meat cause I've been eating vegitarian/vegan meals for the last few weeks and I feel good plus the food tastes awesome .
I can get behind this. I am pretty "plant forward" in my eating and cooking. Get to know your beans, for sure.
I will say that I try to hit at least 80 grams of protein a day, and meat propels me to that total in leaps. No meat gets me there in planned, carefully calculated chunks of 5-10 grams per non-meat vegan-approved-protein item. You've got to be pretty diligent.3 -
I’ve been vegan for about 5 years. I gained weight at first because the food is actually delicious and I wasn’t counting calories or macros. Over the last year, I have lost 25 lbs of fat and gained 13 lbs of muscle on a strictly vegan diet. I have the before and after Dexa scans to prove it. I did it with the help of a coach through The Vegan Gym. Protein can be challenging for vegans but the best protein sources are tofu, seitan, tempeh, and edamame. I also add vegan protein powder to my oatmeal and smoothies. Nuts and beans are not good protein sources if you are trying to build muscle. It is definitely do-able, and I honestly love the food. Nourishes the body and soul.2
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Not just B-12 and protein require attention. B-12 must be supplemented, of course. (The B-12 in nutritional yeast is added, i.e. it's fortified because yeast makes other B vitamins but not B-12. If you're relying on nutritional yeast for B-12, make sure it's a fortified one.)
You're not SOL on Omegas, because algae-sourced EPA and DHA is an option.
Calcium and Iron may require attention. We can get them from plant foods, it's just not as automatic, and it's relevant that plant-sourced Iron tends to be less bioavailable.
Those are just a few examples of considerations, I think some of the more important ones. I'm not saying a fully plant-based (vegan) diet is profoundly difficult or non-nutritious. That would be false. I'm saying that some nutrients will require a little bit more attention at first, because the eating patterns and assumptions we typically bring over from our omnivore lifestyles don't make it happen automatically.
It's very doable, it just requires a little extra thought and attention.
Don't rely on what other people here are saying, especially people who don't have relevant experience, including don't rely on me. Also don't rely on anyone who says "I'm vegan and I feel great so no worries" or "vegans don't need to worry about nutrition because plant foods are just that healthy" (yes, people or advocacy sites actually say things that dumb).
Use that link above to the VeganHealth site, or similar science-based sources.1 -
It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers1
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neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.3 -
neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.
hahah, your right. Maybe I should have said "whole food plant based" WFPB. it's the new vegan mantra and it sounds cool too. Cheers.0 -
I am a thriving super happy vegan and my boyfriend is a ripped Muscular vegan so feel free to add me0
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]neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.
hahah, your right. Maybe I should have said "whole food plant based" WFPB. it's the new vegan mantra and it sounds cool too. Cheers.
There's a distinction between WFPB and veganism, technically. Clarity is useful, I think.
Either or both are touted, vilified, sound cool or don't, along with a bunch of other dietary styles. 🤷♀️
If you're not a fan of veganism, why weigh in on a vegan thread? Isn't that similar to a vegan weighing in negatively on a carnivore thread?
It's possible (IMO) to be reasonably healthy on a WFPB diet, and there are issues other than health that are important to some people in the mix, when it comes to electing to be vegan.3 -
]neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.
hahah, your right. Maybe I should have said "whole food plant based" WFPB. it's the new vegan mantra and it sounds cool too. Cheers.
There's a distinction between WFPB and veganism, technically. Clarity is useful, I think.
Either or both are touted, vilified, sound cool or don't, along with a bunch of other dietary styles. 🤷♀️
If you're not a fan of veganism, why weigh in on a vegan thread? Isn't that similar to a vegan weighing in negatively on a carnivore thread?
It's possible (IMO) to be reasonably healthy on a WFPB diet, and there are issues other than health that are important to some people in the mix, when it comes to electing to be vegan.
If people could thrive and be reasonably healthy it would have shown up in a culture somewhere but it hasn't and I suspect it starts at child birth and infant and childhood nutrition. As a responsible adult, sure, if a person understands all of the actual shortcomings it is viable to overcome those, but the demographics doesn't show very good adherence to longevity and for one reason or another people decide to quit and that number is more evident as it advances from the teen years onward and where it's almost non existent in the elderly. Health is the high watermark in my opinion, and why I believe it would be better to also consume some animal products and there's enough turnover in veganism that it appears that is also a factor. Cheers0 -
neanderthin wrote: »
]neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.
hahah, your right. Maybe I should have said "whole food plant based" WFPB. it's the new vegan mantra and it sounds cool too. Cheers.
There's a distinction between WFPB and veganism, technically. Clarity is useful, I think.
Either or both are touted, vilified, sound cool or don't, along with a bunch of other dietary styles. 🤷♀️
If you're not a fan of veganism, why weigh in on a vegan thread? Isn't that similar to a vegan weighing in negatively on a carnivore thread?
It's possible (IMO) to be reasonably healthy on a WFPB diet, and there are issues other than health that are important to some people in the mix, when it comes to electing to be vegan.
If people could thrive and be reasonably healthy it would have shown up in a culture somewhere but it hasn't and I suspect it starts at child birth and infant and childhood nutrition. As a responsible adult, sure, if a person understands all of the actual shortcomings it is viable to overcome those, but the demographics doesn't show very good adherence to longevity and for one reason or another people decide to quit and that number is more evident as it advances from the teen years onward and where it's almost non existent in the elderly. Health is the high watermark in my opinion, and why I believe it would be better to also consume some animal products and there's enough turnover in veganism that it appears that is also a factor. Cheers
Nope, I am
vegan and have been everything from carnivore, pescatarian, vegetarian. My other half is too. The remarkable health changes, plus ethical motivation. We see no chance of going back. Like ANNPT777 said, why post when you are not supportive. Regardless of argument, your not taking into consideration that others have opposing views that have validity. You may want to consider not everyone is
like you nor want negativity.1 -
neanderthin wrote: »
]neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.
hahah, your right. Maybe I should have said "whole food plant based" WFPB. it's the new vegan mantra and it sounds cool too. Cheers.
There's a distinction between WFPB and veganism, technically. Clarity is useful, I think.
Either or both are touted, vilified, sound cool or don't, along with a bunch of other dietary styles. 🤷♀️
If you're not a fan of veganism, why weigh in on a vegan thread? Isn't that similar to a vegan weighing in negatively on a carnivore thread?
It's possible (IMO) to be reasonably healthy on a WFPB diet, and there are issues other than health that are important to some people in the mix, when it comes to electing to be vegan.
If people could thrive and be reasonably healthy it would have shown up in a culture somewhere but it hasn't and I suspect it starts at child birth and infant and childhood nutrition. As a responsible adult, sure, if a person understands all of the actual shortcomings it is viable to overcome those, but the demographics doesn't show very good adherence to longevity and for one reason or another people decide to quit and that number is more evident as it advances from the teen years onward and where it's almost non existent in the elderly. Health is the high watermark in my opinion, and why I believe it would be better to also consume some animal products and there's enough turnover in veganism that it appears that is also a factor. Cheers
Nope, I am
vegan and have been everything from carnivore, pescatarian, vegetarian. My other half is too. The remarkable health changes, plus ethical motivation. We see no chance of going back. Like ANNPT777 said, why post when you are not supportive. Regardless of argument, your not taking into consideration that others have opposing views that have validity. You may want to consider not everyone is
like you nor want negativity.
Your old enough to take responsibility and I do hope you thrive and stay healthy. Unfortunately not everyone does. My sister needed medical help because of her vegan diet and her lifelong friend and schoolmate didn't do much better, neither looked healthy for years and it wasn't pretty. AnnPT77 relayed twice in this thread to help inform people that it's a complicated diet and that care must be given and many others chimed in as as well and yes, there are consequences when there isn't.
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neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
]neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.
hahah, your right. Maybe I should have said "whole food plant based" WFPB. it's the new vegan mantra and it sounds cool too. Cheers.
There's a distinction between WFPB and veganism, technically. Clarity is useful, I think.
Either or both are touted, vilified, sound cool or don't, along with a bunch of other dietary styles. 🤷♀️
If you're not a fan of veganism, why weigh in on a vegan thread? Isn't that similar to a vegan weighing in negatively on a carnivore thread?
It's possible (IMO) to be reasonably healthy on a WFPB diet, and there are issues other than health that are important to some people in the mix, when it comes to electing to be vegan.
If people could thrive and be reasonably healthy it would have shown up in a culture somewhere but it hasn't and I suspect it starts at child birth and infant and childhood nutrition. As a responsible adult, sure, if a person understands all of the actual shortcomings it is viable to overcome those, but the demographics doesn't show very good adherence to longevity and for one reason or another people decide to quit and that number is more evident as it advances from the teen years onward and where it's almost non existent in the elderly. Health is the high watermark in my opinion, and why I believe it would be better to also consume some animal products and there's enough turnover in veganism that it appears that is also a factor. Cheers
Nope, I am
vegan and have been everything from carnivore, pescatarian, vegetarian. My other half is too. The remarkable health changes, plus ethical motivation. We see no chance of going back. Like ANNPT777 said, why post when you are not supportive. Regardless of argument, your not taking into consideration that others have opposing views that have validity. You may want to consider not everyone is
like you nor want negativity.
Your old enough to take responsibility and I do hope you thrive and stay healthy. Unfortunately not everyone does. My sister needed medical help because of her vegan diet and her lifelong friend and schoolmate didn't do much better, neither looked healthy for years and it wasn't pretty. AnnPT77 relayed twice in this thread to help inform people that it's a complicated diet and that care must be given and many others chimed in as as well and yes, there are consequences when there isn't.
And to give the opposite example: I get sick if I eat a diet high in protein, especially egg and lean meat, and when eating too much fat overall. Thus can we all just agree that we're talking insular situations here, and that probably every varied way of eating is healthy enough and that some people don't thrive on one way of eating and others don't?3 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
]neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.
hahah, your right. Maybe I should have said "whole food plant based" WFPB. it's the new vegan mantra and it sounds cool too. Cheers.
There's a distinction between WFPB and veganism, technically. Clarity is useful, I think.
Either or both are touted, vilified, sound cool or don't, along with a bunch of other dietary styles. 🤷♀️
If you're not a fan of veganism, why weigh in on a vegan thread? Isn't that similar to a vegan weighing in negatively on a carnivore thread?
It's possible (IMO) to be reasonably healthy on a WFPB diet, and there are issues other than health that are important to some people in the mix, when it comes to electing to be vegan.
If people could thrive and be reasonably healthy it would have shown up in a culture somewhere but it hasn't and I suspect it starts at child birth and infant and childhood nutrition. As a responsible adult, sure, if a person understands all of the actual shortcomings it is viable to overcome those, but the demographics doesn't show very good adherence to longevity and for one reason or another people decide to quit and that number is more evident as it advances from the teen years onward and where it's almost non existent in the elderly. Health is the high watermark in my opinion, and why I believe it would be better to also consume some animal products and there's enough turnover in veganism that it appears that is also a factor. Cheers
Nope, I am
vegan and have been everything from carnivore, pescatarian, vegetarian. My other half is too. The remarkable health changes, plus ethical motivation. We see no chance of going back. Like ANNPT777 said, why post when you are not supportive. Regardless of argument, your not taking into consideration that others have opposing views that have validity. You may want to consider not everyone is
like you nor want negativity.
Your old enough to take responsibility and I do hope you thrive and stay healthy. Unfortunately not everyone does. My sister needed medical help because of her vegan diet and her lifelong friend and schoolmate didn't do much better, neither looked healthy for years and it wasn't pretty. AnnPT77 relayed twice in this thread to help inform people that it's a complicated diet and that care must be given and many others chimed in as as well and yes, there are consequences when there isn't.
And to give the opposite example: I get sick if I eat a diet high in protein, especially egg and lean meat, and when eating too much fat overall. Thus can we all just agree that we're talking insular situations here, and that probably every varied way of eating is healthy enough and that some people don't thrive on one way of eating and others don't?
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your theory yirara. There will be aversions to particular foods on an individual basis, no doubt about it. People may have aversions to eggplant or nuts for example but that doesn't mean these foods are problematic for everyone that consume them, just that some individuals may not thrive and actually get sick or worse yet, end up in the hospital or die. A dietary intervention that fundamentally doesn't contain all the necessary and essential nutrients in order to thrive, not to mention the lack bioavailability of many other nutrients is what is concerning and of course that's just my opinion. Cheers.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
]neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.
hahah, your right. Maybe I should have said "whole food plant based" WFPB. it's the new vegan mantra and it sounds cool too. Cheers.
There's a distinction between WFPB and veganism, technically. Clarity is useful, I think.
Either or both are touted, vilified, sound cool or don't, along with a bunch of other dietary styles. 🤷♀️
If you're not a fan of veganism, why weigh in on a vegan thread? Isn't that similar to a vegan weighing in negatively on a carnivore thread?
It's possible (IMO) to be reasonably healthy on a WFPB diet, and there are issues other than health that are important to some people in the mix, when it comes to electing to be vegan.
If people could thrive and be reasonably healthy it would have shown up in a culture somewhere but it hasn't and I suspect it starts at child birth and infant and childhood nutrition. As a responsible adult, sure, if a person understands all of the actual shortcomings it is viable to overcome those, but the demographics doesn't show very good adherence to longevity and for one reason or another people decide to quit and that number is more evident as it advances from the teen years onward and where it's almost non existent in the elderly. Health is the high watermark in my opinion, and why I believe it would be better to also consume some animal products and there's enough turnover in veganism that it appears that is also a factor. Cheers
Nope, I am
vegan and have been everything from carnivore, pescatarian, vegetarian. My other half is too. The remarkable health changes, plus ethical motivation. We see no chance of going back. Like ANNPT777 said, why post when you are not supportive. Regardless of argument, your not taking into consideration that others have opposing views that have validity. You may want to consider not everyone is
like you nor want negativity.
Your old enough to take responsibility and I do hope you thrive and stay healthy. Unfortunately not everyone does. My sister needed medical help because of her vegan diet and her lifelong friend and schoolmate didn't do much better, neither looked healthy for years and it wasn't pretty. AnnPT77 relayed twice in this thread to help inform people that it's a complicated diet and that care must be given and many others chimed in as as well and yes, there are consequences when there isn't.
And to give the opposite example: I get sick if I eat a diet high in protein, especially egg and lean meat, and when eating too much fat overall. Thus can we all just agree that we're talking insular situations here, and that probably every varied way of eating is healthy enough and that some people don't thrive on one way of eating and others don't?
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your theory yirara. There will be aversions to particular foods on an individual basis, no doubt about it. People may have aversions to eggplant or nuts for example but that doesn't mean these foods are problematic for everyone that consume them, just that some individuals may not thrive and actually get sick or worse yet, end up in the hospital or die. A dietary intervention that fundamentally doesn't contain all the necessary and essential nutrients in order to thrive, not to mention the lack bioavailability of many other nutrients is what is concerning and of course that's just my opinion. Cheers.
Meat does NOT supply all the vitamins and minerals we need. Almost no food does. Dark leafy greens ate close, but regress of diet we need an array and variety.
Fortunately I have advanced knowledge onvegan,plant based eating. I went to college for physiology with interest in nutrition and health.I have taken several courses endorsed by ACSM and accredited teachers. I have had plant based doctors, one who is a GP that specializes in TCM. Abd a doctor of Orirntal Medicine. I also belong to web pages specified for healthy vegan living and nutrition
Cheers2 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
]neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.
hahah, your right. Maybe I should have said "whole food plant based" WFPB. it's the new vegan mantra and it sounds cool too. Cheers.
There's a distinction between WFPB and veganism, technically. Clarity is useful, I think.
Either or both are touted, vilified, sound cool or don't, along with a bunch of other dietary styles. 🤷♀️
If you're not a fan of veganism, why weigh in on a vegan thread? Isn't that similar to a vegan weighing in negatively on a carnivore thread?
It's possible (IMO) to be reasonably healthy on a WFPB diet, and there are issues other than health that are important to some people in the mix, when it comes to electing to be vegan.
If people could thrive and be reasonably healthy it would have shown up in a culture somewhere but it hasn't and I suspect it starts at child birth and infant and childhood nutrition. As a responsible adult, sure, if a person understands all of the actual shortcomings it is viable to overcome those, but the demographics doesn't show very good adherence to longevity and for one reason or another people decide to quit and that number is more evident as it advances from the teen years onward and where it's almost non existent in the elderly. Health is the high watermark in my opinion, and why I believe it would be better to also consume some animal products and there's enough turnover in veganism that it appears that is also a factor. Cheers
Nope, I am
vegan and have been everything from carnivore, pescatarian, vegetarian. My other half is too. The remarkable health changes, plus ethical motivation. We see no chance of going back. Like ANNPT777 said, why post when you are not supportive. Regardless of argument, your not taking into consideration that others have opposing views that have validity. You may want to consider not everyone is
like you nor want negativity.
Your old enough to take responsibility and I do hope you thrive and stay healthy. Unfortunately not everyone does. My sister needed medical help because of her vegan diet and her lifelong friend and schoolmate didn't do much better, neither looked healthy for years and it wasn't pretty. AnnPT77 relayed twice in this thread to help inform people that it's a complicated diet and that care must be given and many others chimed in as as well and yes, there are consequences when there isn't.
And to give the opposite example: I get sick if I eat a diet high in protein, especially egg and lean meat, and when eating too much fat overall. Thus can we all just agree that we're talking insular situations here, and that probably every varied way of eating is healthy enough and that some people don't thrive on one way of eating and others don't?
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your theory yirara. There will be aversions to particular foods on an individual basis, no doubt about it. People may have aversions to eggplant or nuts for example but that doesn't mean these foods are problematic for everyone that consume them, just that some individuals may not thrive and actually get sick or worse yet, end up in the hospital or die. A dietary intervention that fundamentally doesn't contain all the necessary and essential nutrients in order to thrive, not to mention the lack bioavailability of many other nutrients is what is concerning and of course that's just my opinion. Cheers.
Meat does NOT supply all the vitamins and minerals we need. Almost no food does. Dark leafy greens ate close, but regress of diet we need an array and variety.
Fortunately I have advanced knowledge onvegan,plant based eating. I went to college for physiology with interest in nutrition and health.I have taken several courses endorsed by ACSM and accredited teachers. I have had plant based doctors, one who is a GP that specializes in TCM. Abd a doctor of Orirntal Medicine. I also belong to web pages specified for healthy vegan living and nutrition
Cheers
Vitamin C is actually the only essential vitamin not found in useful amounts in cooked meat, however can be found in eggs as well as raw liver. What meat lacks nutritionally that is found mostly in plants are flavonoids, antioxidants, and fiber. There are also a number of nutrients only found in meat or for which plant foods need to be fortified:
D3
B12
Retinol (Vitamin A)
Creatine
Carnitine
Carnosine
Heme iron
DHA
EPA
Taurine
I am by no means a carnivore...I'm an omnivore that eats a lot of plants. Abstaining from animal products for ethical reasons makes complete sense...for nutritional reasons, not so much. The human default setting is omnivorous, and there's a reason for that.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
]neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It's ironic that a food that basically delivers all the essential vitamins and minerals is deemed unhealthy and recently vivified while a diet where essential vitamins and minerals are lacking for basic survival is deemed the way forward for a healthy population and it's not criticized, it's almost like there's a cognitive dissonance that has taken a religious slant from what I can see. Yeah, count me not a fan of veganism. cheers
Veganism is "not criticized"? 😆
Sure, it's touted in some quarters. It's vilified in others. 🤷♀️
Quasi-religious zeal about eating styles is IME dead common . . . about pretty much any and all eating styles, if you look for it (or simply fail to ignore it). Cognitive dissonance is everywhere.
hahah, your right. Maybe I should have said "whole food plant based" WFPB. it's the new vegan mantra and it sounds cool too. Cheers.
There's a distinction between WFPB and veganism, technically. Clarity is useful, I think.
Either or both are touted, vilified, sound cool or don't, along with a bunch of other dietary styles. 🤷♀️
If you're not a fan of veganism, why weigh in on a vegan thread? Isn't that similar to a vegan weighing in negatively on a carnivore thread?
It's possible (IMO) to be reasonably healthy on a WFPB diet, and there are issues other than health that are important to some people in the mix, when it comes to electing to be vegan.
If people could thrive and be reasonably healthy it would have shown up in a culture somewhere but it hasn't and I suspect it starts at child birth and infant and childhood nutrition. As a responsible adult, sure, if a person understands all of the actual shortcomings it is viable to overcome those, but the demographics doesn't show very good adherence to longevity and for one reason or another people decide to quit and that number is more evident as it advances from the teen years onward and where it's almost non existent in the elderly. Health is the high watermark in my opinion, and why I believe it would be better to also consume some animal products and there's enough turnover in veganism that it appears that is also a factor. Cheers
Nope, I am
vegan and have been everything from carnivore, pescatarian, vegetarian. My other half is too. The remarkable health changes, plus ethical motivation. We see no chance of going back. Like ANNPT777 said, why post when you are not supportive. Regardless of argument, your not taking into consideration that others have opposing views that have validity. You may want to consider not everyone is
like you nor want negativity.
Your old enough to take responsibility and I do hope you thrive and stay healthy. Unfortunately not everyone does. My sister needed medical help because of her vegan diet and her lifelong friend and schoolmate didn't do much better, neither looked healthy for years and it wasn't pretty. AnnPT77 relayed twice in this thread to help inform people that it's a complicated diet and that care must be given and many others chimed in as as well and yes, there are consequences when there isn't.
And to give the opposite example: I get sick if I eat a diet high in protein, especially egg and lean meat, and when eating too much fat overall. Thus can we all just agree that we're talking insular situations here, and that probably every varied way of eating is healthy enough and that some people don't thrive on one way of eating and others don't?
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your theory yirara. There will be aversions to particular foods on an individual basis, no doubt about it. People may have aversions to eggplant or nuts for example but that doesn't mean these foods are problematic for everyone that consume them, just that some individuals may not thrive and actually get sick or worse yet, end up in the hospital or die. A dietary intervention that fundamentally doesn't contain all the necessary and essential nutrients in order to thrive, not to mention the lack bioavailability of many other nutrients is what is concerning and of course that's just my opinion. Cheers.
Meat does NOT supply all the vitamins and minerals we need. Almost no food does. Dark leafy greens ate close, but regress of diet we need an array and variety.
Fortunately I have advanced knowledge onvegan,plant based eating. I went to college for physiology with interest in nutrition and health.I have taken several courses endorsed by ACSM and accredited teachers. I have had plant based doctors, one who is a GP that specializes in TCM. Abd a doctor of Orirntal Medicine. I also belong to web pages specified for healthy vegan living and nutrition
Cheers
Vitamin C is actually the only essential vitamin not found in useful amounts in cooked meat, however can be found in eggs as well as raw liver. What meat lacks nutritionally that is found mostly in plants are flavonoids, antioxidants, and fiber. There are also a number of nutrients only found in meat or for which plant foods need to be fortified:
D3
B12
Retinol (Vitamin A)
Creatine
Carnitine
Carnosine
Heme iron
DHA
EPA
Taurine
I am by no means a carnivore...I'm an omnivore that eats a lot of plants. Abstaining from animal products for ethical reasons makes complete sense...for nutritional reasons, not so much. The human default setting is omnivorous, and there's a reason for that.
I'm a vegetarian, and completely agree with the bolded, though I'd expand it to ethical or social-benefits reasons as well as moral. (That's a fine distinction, a quibble, I know - but in my semantics, if it were a moral issue, I'd be more likely to proselytize for whatever the "right" moral choice was.)
Ease of adequate nutrition, especially in a fortunate developed-world context, isn't the only relevant consideration.
But even as a decades-long vegetarian myself, I do believe that the easiest way to get overall good nutrition is as an omnivore. If the main/only considerations are nutrition, health, or even weight loss . . . be an omnivore. I've said as much on quite a few threads here.
At the same time, I do also believe that some people see relatively quick and significant health benefits from a change to a fully plant-based diet. (I think most of them would see those benefits if they simply started getting much larger amounts of veggies/fruits alongside meats/fish. Most people - in the US at least - eat far too little of veggies/fruits for best results.)
Plant-based eating does require somewhat more attention to achieve good nutrition, including some supplementation, but there's been some (for my taste) over-dramatic hand-wringing about the difficulty of that. Maybe I just think committed people can be smarter than some other people think they can? I do tend to Pollyanna-ism sometimes. I also don't like drama, and catastrophizing (especially about other adults' diets) is kinda dramatic, IMO.
Frankly, most omnivores' actual eating patterns - here in the US, at least - really need some supplementation to achieve best outcomes, too. For them, and for people eating fully plant-based, there's some rational room to question whether supplementation really achieves as good an outcome as getting all nutrition from food. (I suspect it doesn't.) I don't think the longevity/health hit from that difference - at this stage of the science - is likely to be huge, though.
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