Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

Carnivore diet

Options
1235»

Replies

  • DFW_Tom
    DFW_Tom Posts: 218 Member
    Options
    Dante_80 wrote: »

    Fixed it for you. Knowing the report comes from the AHA says a lot all by itself.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,919 Member
    edited April 2023
    Options
    Dante_80 wrote: »
    New report says worst heart-healthy diets include keto, Paleo diets
    Yeah, it comes out every year, ad nauseum.

    No regulatory agency like any low/er carb diets because well, it basically flies in the face of their recommendation of their long standing opinions on cholesterol, saturated fat and higher fat diets, so they lose by default. I would place a bet this isn't going to change very much mostly because these agencies are seen as "sacred cows" and if they flip flop with their recommendations then people wouldn't take as serious or seriously, which is ironic considering that's what science actually does, gathers research, which effectively adds to the totality of evidence and changes an existing hypothesis, rinse and repeat.

    Data used for their recommendations hasn't changed in 50 years and the reason for that is because it's observational population wide data gleaned from the epidemiological data from Food Frequency Questionnaires which that data remains pretty constant year over year, which is pretty low in the hierarchy of evidence and under normal scientific rigger would basically be considered interesting at best and most scientists that study nutrition would agree that it shouldn't be the foundation for nation wide dietary recommendations. It's not only the AHA that use this type of data, they all do including the WHO, USDA, NIH, ADA all of them.

    Anyway, Doctors, Dietitians and Scientists that are proponents of a lower carb lifestyle for the treatment of metabolic syndrome, obesity, type 2 diabetes, kidney disease, cardiovascular death, myocardial infarction, stroke, and heart failure provide evidence and applied pressure for the last 20 years and a low carb diet addresses these with lifestyle modification that show improvement beyond pharmacological therapy and has been somewhat successful at a snails pace. There's a lot of opposition from agents that have a lot of money invested in the status quo not to mention the AHA receives about 35 million dollars a year from various pharmaceutical and food companies.

    Anyway, that science that moves forward regardless of opinion and did effect the USDA and in 2015 declared cholesterol was no longer a "nutrient of concern", basically we didn't have to worry how much we ate, but they couldn't help telling us anyway. Also the ADA, the American Diabetes Association has also said that a low carb diet to be included as a dietary intervention for diabetes. And the AHA, American Heart Association has similarly said that a low carb and very low carb (keto) diet would be a good dietary intervention for people with heart related problems and other inflammatory issues (link below) normally found in the population with metabolic dysfunction.

    Apparently the AHA has moved from endorsing lucky charms and coco puffs where they use to put the red heart with the check mark on breakfast cereal for kids, based on grain lowers cholesterol and of course they believed cholesterol should be banished, which they did finally stop. It was only a matter of time that egg on their face was probably not a good look going forward, to accepting that reducing some forms of carbohydrates is heart friendly. Basically the AHA is speaking out of both sides of their mouth. These agencies when lower carb is more accepted and mainstream in a decade or so, and imo will be, they'll be able to say, hey we said that a decade ago. lol Cheers

    https://ahajournals.org/doi/epdf/10.1161/CIR.0000000000001040

    Comprehensive Management of Cardiovascular Risk Factors for Adults With Type 2 Diabetes: A Scientific Statement From the American Heart Association

    .
  • DFW_Tom
    DFW_Tom Posts: 218 Member
    Options
    From a study by Harvard researchers, published this year:

    "Low-carb diet patterns associated with reduction in all-cause mortality among people with type 2 diabetes"

    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20230228/Low-carb-diet-patterns-associated-with-reduction-in-all-cause-mortality-among-people-with-type-2-diabetes.aspx

    The 10,000+ participants were medical professionals who had developed Type 2 Diabetes while participated in another health study.
    The findings showed a 24% reduction in all-cause mortality among those adhering to a low-carbohydrate dietary pattern. The health benefits were stronger for low-carbohydrate diets that emphasized plant-based foods and high-quality carbohydrates, such as fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. Those diets were also associated with a lower cardiovascular disease and cancer mortality. Low-carbohydrate diets that emphasized animal products and low-quality carbohydrates, such as potatoes, added sugars, and refined grains, were not significantly associated with lower mortality.

    This study doesn't really support a strongly carnivore diet, but it sure supports eating less junky carbs and a low carb diet overall.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,919 Member
    edited April 2023
    Options
    DFW_Tom wrote: »
    From a study by Harvard researchers, published this year:

    "Low-carb diet patterns associated with reduction in all-cause mortality among people with type 2 diabetes"

    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20230228/Low-carb-diet-patterns-associated-with-reduction-in-all-cause-mortality-among-people-with-type-2-diabetes.aspx

    The 10,000+ participants were medical professionals who had developed Type 2 Diabetes while participated in another health study.
    The findings showed a 24% reduction in all-cause mortality among those adhering to a low-carbohydrate dietary pattern. The health benefits were stronger for low-carbohydrate diets that emphasized plant-based foods and high-quality carbohydrates, such as fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. Those diets were also associated with a lower cardiovascular disease and cancer mortality. Low-carbohydrate diets that emphasized animal products and low-quality carbohydrates, such as potatoes, added sugars, and refined grains, were not significantly associated with lower mortality.

    This study doesn't really support a strongly carnivore diet, but it sure supports eating less junky carbs and a low carb diet overall.

    It's not because saturated fat is “bad” per se imo but because unsaturated fats are particularly healthy and have been shown to protect against heart disease. Other issues are much more worthy of our attention, such as limiting our intake of sugary drinks and processed and ultra processed foods containing refined carbs, refined oils, too much salt and of course sugar, following a predominantly whole food diet and yes that can be a low carb diet, and getting plenty of physical activity in our daily routine.

    The study only tries to answers the questions described in the abstract and there was no actual question regarding the carnivore diet, so there will no data to draw from for support or otherwise. I'm trying to punch holes in the whole carnivore concept, because that's what I like to do. I'm trying to find that one or more mechanisms that doesn't work for health and I'm still not entirely convinced that for a select population that it could be life changing, but I'll continue to do the digging, but the data is pretty limited at this time. Cheers
  • bigtate338
    bigtate338 Posts: 2 Member
    Options
    So far, so good! I’m 64 yrs. old, 5’10” and weight 190. I’ve lost 25 lbs. in 3 months on a mostly carnivore diet. My goal is to eat strictly carnivore, but I’m having trouble giving up some of my vices. I’ve been pretty good at keeping my carbs between 10-20 carbs/day. I get most of my information from watching YouTube videos. I follow Dr. Ken Berry, Dr. Anthony Chaffee, Kelly Hogan (My Zero Carb Life), and a few others. I love the way I’m feeling. I haven’t seemed to have lost any muscle. It’s a fairly easy diet to stick to other than the few carbs I’m having trouble getting rid of. The hardest thing for me is not eating the same things my family eats as they’re not eating the way. Other than that, I see no down side to it. I started out doing carnivore (or Ketovore as Dr. Berry calls it) just to see if I could get over a plateau I was stuck at. It worked so well I stuck with it. Now I’m thinking I might make it a permanent part of my life. I also take daily electrolytes mixed with my water intake as well as iodine drops. I’m happy I started down this path and think I’ll stick with it.