Weight not coming off

sojcherb
sojcherb Posts: 23 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Help! I'm 61 and am at 194 lbs and I weight train 3x/week and walk, bike or do stationery bike intervals on other days. My ability to lose weight has tanked over the past two years. I switched to MFP after many years doing WW. My trainer and functional medicine Dr. told me to eat about 1800 calories a day with high protein and low carbs (about 120 g/day). After doing that for about a month with no progress I decreased calories to 1750 and then 1700 and still no progress after about 2 months. How long should I give a calorie goal before decreasing it more? But I can't decrease calories too much since I generally have disordered eating patterns and will not do well being too restrictive.

Replies

  • Jmatievich
    Jmatievich Posts: 38 Member
    I don’t know how large you are but that’s a lot of calories. I eat 1270 per day and don’t eat back exercise calories. I’m 68 and lose 1 lb per week. I need 1270 to feel satisfied so 1lb per week it is.
  • westrich20940
    westrich20940 Posts: 921 Member
    edited May 2023
    How tall are you?

    Using 5'6" (just to put something in)....I used a TDEE calculator and got:
    1754 as your maintenance level calories
    1462 as your BMR

    So, if you are using MFP to track your calories and exercise (I used 'sedentary' as your activity level even though you said you are working out bc you can track that calorie burn on MFP and it will add it to your daily calorie goal). If you are not using MFP to track your workouts - let us know that...bc that changes your daily calorie goal.

    So, if using MFP to track calories burned through intentional exercise as well - I'd manually set your calorie goal to ~1550 calories...and then when you log any intentional calorie burn through exercise - that will also get added, keeping you at a ~200 cal/day deficit.

    If you are NOT using MFP to log your calorie burn through working out - then I'd assume for a TDEE calculation you are somewhere 'lightly active' to 'moderately active'...but this is highly dependent on what your actual weight training and cardio activities look like (as far as duration and intensity). But, either way ... a good place to start might be to manually set your daily calorie goal at ~1600 and go from there and make any necessary adjustments up or down.

    I know that can seem confusing - but do whichever method seems to make more sense to you with how you are utilizing MFP. I think if you are able to get a more/less accurate idea of what you are burning through your cardio exercise, it's easier to use MFP for everything. This means your days will look different regarding calorie consumption based on your added activity calories. So, does it seem easier to you to eat to a different calorie goal every day depending on your activity (this gives you some more freedom/wiggle room as far as variety goes) or eat the same amount of calories every day, which can be simpler for people. But you need to make sure that your level of activity stays pretty consistent then.

    NOTE: I want to also say that your doctors weren't 'wrong' when they told you to shoot to eat 1800 calories and prioritize protein. Any calorie goal estimate is just that - an estimate and you were already on the right track by slowly lowering your calorie consumption in order to get into a deficit (which you just weren't at the beginning). When considering when to change your daily calorie goal based on data (your weight and how your clothes fit, how strong you feel, etc...) I'd say give it at least 4 weeks....take a look at the data and then make adjustments from there.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,227 Member
    edited May 2023
    If you’re sedentary except for your exercise times or in reality if you’re taking in more than 1,700 a day on average all week or a combination of the 2 it can be easy to not be losing.

    It’s all about calorie balance. If no loss over a few months then you aren’t in a deficit.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    I'm going to repost Ann's comment from your other thread. Please see her advice about food logging.
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    Jmatievich wrote: »
    I don’t know how large you are but that’s a lot of calories. I eat 1270 per day and don’t eat back exercise calories. I’m 68 and lose 1 lb per week. I need 1270 to feel satisfied so 1lb per week it is.

    It’s not a lot of calories - we’re all different. I lose on anything under 2000, but that also doesn’t mean everyone else will.

    OP can you open your diary? It might be that you’re eating slightly more than you think (logging errors are really common, as MFP isn’t always accurate, and some measurements can vary ie 1 tablespoon peanut butter is 15g, whereas “my” tablespoon of peanut butter was closer to 30g!)

    Endorsed.

    I'm female, 68, and lose weight (admittedly very slowly) on 1850 calories plus all carefully-estimated exercise calories, so 2100-2500 most days. (I'm 5'5", losing super slowly in maintenance to creep off some holiday pounds painlessly. I weighed 129.8 pounds this morning.) That's probably a high calorie extreme for our demographic.

    There are other women who post here in the age range of OP and me who do need to eat a flat 1200 calories to lose weight at a slow but reasonable rate. That's more like the low calorie extreme for our demographic.

    A doctor, MFP, a TDEE calculator, even a fitness tracker - they just give us a starting estimate that's the average for similar people. That's all they can do. Individuals vary. Therefore, we stick with the starting estimate for 4-6 weeks (whole menstrual cycles if that applies - usually doesn't in our demographic!) At that point, we have enough personal data to adjust our intake based on our average weekly real-world results. Conveniently, that approach also compensates somewhat for patterns of imprecise calorie estimation.

    OP, I started out at close to your age (I was 59) and current weight (I was 183), did not use drugs or surgery. Weight loss is possible, but not necessarily easy every second.

    I see that you've opened your diary. This is good. You look like you're getting in some good nutrition - kudos!

    I do see a mix of weights, volume measures, "1 piece" kind of thing. If you're not already, one thing you can do is to weigh everything it's possible for you to weigh on your food scale, preferably in grams (more granular/precise). I'm not a person who believes that everyone must weigh every bite in order to succeed, but if someone is not losing as expected, weighing everything for a few weeks can be a great help to pin down what's actually going on. I know I had some forehead slap moments of realization when I started weighing foods. If you don't like weighing, you can stop once your other measuring/estimating methods get more calibrated base on weighing for a while.

    If you need tips on how to weigh foods so it's efficient, i.e., takes less time/effort than cups/spoons measuring, take a look at the starting post in this thread (I promise that's what it's about, ignore the dumb title):

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10498882/weighing-food-takes-too-long-and-is-obsessive#latest

    Another thing you can do is take a look at your daily life (non-exercise) activity, and think whether there are ways you can increase that. That can make small, but meaningful contributions. Many MFP-ers share their ideas here:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1

    Often, as we age, our lives get gradually and subtly less physically busy. Things like the above can counteract that. The other thing that can happen is gradual, subtle muscle mass loss. You're already strength training and getting adequate protein to work on that, which is great. Other women our age could follow your good example in that! It has a slow return on investment (in calorie burn terms), but the increasing strength, which happens more quickly, has great benefits in daily life, IME.

    I'm wishing you success. With patience and persistence, I'm confident you can get there!
  • sojcherb
    sojcherb Posts: 23 Member
    @westrich20940 I actually am 5'6"! So based on what you're saying 1750 is too much. I just cut down to 1700 and sometimes leave over a few calories at the end of the day. You have an interesting point about possibly eating a different amount based on level of activity. For example, although I do consistently work out, today I couldn't do my weight training because something came up and I may not even get a chance to exercise - so that probably means I should cut 100 calories out of my daily budget!

    On another note, I have been extremely patient and have been giving most changes a few weeks before deciding if it's working or not. I also know that my weight fluctuates a lot if I've eaten anything with soy sauce or anything else salty the day before a weigh in. So I have to give it a lot of time before I decide if something is working. It's just hard not to see results for months, or just to see very slow results.
  • vivmom2014
    vivmom2014 Posts: 1,649 Member
    sojcherb wrote: »
    It's just hard not to see results for months, or just to see very slow results.

    I wouldn't underestimate slow, even VERY slow, results. People commonly choose a steep calorie deficit, stick to it religiously for a prescribed amount of time (that they can stand it), and then throw it all out the window because it is unsustainable.

  • sojcherb
    sojcherb Posts: 23 Member
    @vlvmom2014 I couldn't agree with you more. I'm all for slow weight loss and sustainable eating. I was on WW before Covid and lost about 14 pounds that way. But during the year of Covid I had hip replacement surgery and then a double knee replacement. I ended up gaining the weight back during that time because people were bringing me food (which I ate) and because I was less active. And now, all of a sudden, WW no longer working for me anymore and I was pretty consistently tracking for over a year so I can definitely say I gave it enough time. This is how I decided to explore a different approach and that's why I'm here. The one thing I CAN'T do is cut down my calorie in take to the point where it's not sustainable. I've been down that road before. I just still haven't found that sweet spot that will allow me to consistently see progress.
  • Katydidit2023
    Katydidit2023 Posts: 5 Member
    I am very new to all this. What is MFP and a TDEE.

    I am working with a trainer at the gym for 30 mins 2x a week. She said that my food diary looks good & I usually eat less than the 1200 calories daily. I've stayed at 171.1 for the past 5 days.
  • westrich20940
    westrich20940 Posts: 921 Member
    sojcherb wrote: »
    @westrich20940 I actually am 5'6"! So based on what you're saying 1750 is too much. I just cut down to 1700 and sometimes leave over a few calories at the end of the day. You have an interesting point about possibly eating a different amount based on level of activity. For example, although I do consistently work out, today I couldn't do my weight training because something came up and I may not even get a chance to exercise - so that probably means I should cut 100 calories out of my daily budget!

    On another note, I have been extremely patient and have been giving most changes a few weeks before deciding if it's working or not. I also know that my weight fluctuates a lot if I've eaten anything with soy sauce or anything else salty the day before a weigh in. So I have to give it a lot of time before I decide if something is working. It's just hard not to see results for months, or just to see very slow results.

    I know it can 'feel' frustrating but honestly - slow and steady is best. And sounds like you're doing everything right! Keep it up, it'll be successful. =D
  • vivmom2014
    vivmom2014 Posts: 1,649 Member
    @sojcherb It truly seems like you're doing everything right, with the possible exception of stressing over carbs. If I may offer some reassurance, don't worry about the carbs (unless, obviously, you have a serious medical condition that would warrant carb scrutiny.) For weight loss, you want to focus on the calories. Yes, yes, there's fine tuning nutrition and sorting out which foods keep us satiated longer, but that can come later...

    I'm happy to hit 70g protein as a minimum. I'm vegetarian, so this can sometimes be a slog, but I'm getting better with it. I exercise 4 times a week and am fairly active otherwise. My nutrition has been disastrous in the past (raging sweet tooth) but I can keep my weight steady or down by calorie counting. There's nothing that says we have to have every aspect of weight control perfect in X amount of time: calories, macros, activity, accuracy in logging, not comparing ourselves to others, keeping mistakes (or outright disasters) to a minimum.

    We have time. I would suggest you relax, continue on your course, enjoy life. Adjust as needed.
  • sojcherb
    sojcherb Posts: 23 Member
    @kwlamberton if I ate 1200 calories I would feel so deprived that I wouldn't be able to sustain it. It's obvious that everyone is different.
  • sojcherb
    sojcherb Posts: 23 Member
    @Jmatievich Wow. I don't believe that 1270 is sustainable for me. On WW with the free foods I was eating more than that. But now I believe I wasn't losing because I was probably eating more than 1800 calories a day. I figured that out when I transitioned to MFP and started recording my foods in both places. I'm hoping that now that what I'm eating is more authentically recorded that I'll start seeing result but so far I haven't seen much.
  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 11,697 Member
    Jmatievich wrote: »
    I don’t know how large you are but that’s a lot of calories. I eat 1270 per day and don’t eat back exercise calories. I’m 68 and lose 1 lb per week. I need 1270 to feel satisfied so 1lb per week it is.

    Um, no. One person's "lot of calories" is another person's first of three meals on the day. If 1270 works for you, then good for you. Other people need different calorie totals in their day, even when they weigh the same. I need 2000 calories to maintain weight; a coworker who's a competitive bodybuilder needs 3400.
    kwlamberton wrote: »
    I am very new to all this. What is MFP and a TDEE.

    @kwlamberton, MFP is for MyFitnessPal, while TDEE is Total Daily Energy Expenditure, a fancy way of saying how many calories does your body use each day between breathing, moving and digesting.
    vivmom2014 wrote: »
    I wouldn't underestimate slow, even VERY slow, results.

    OP, think of it this way...you haven't lost weight in weeks. But you also haven't GAINED weight in that span, either.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,227 Member
    sojcherb wrote: »
    @Jmatievich Wow. I don't believe that 1270 is sustainable for me. On WW with the free foods I was eating more than that. But now I believe I wasn't losing because I was probably eating more than 1800 calories a day. I figured that out when I transitioned to MFP and started recording my foods in both places. I'm hoping that now that what I'm eating is more authentically recorded that I'll start seeing result but so far I haven't seen much.
    You’re at your maintenance calories so just deduct from where you are now. Your deficit will be determined by how quickly or slowly you want to lose. Try dropping 250 per day and stay there for a month and see how you’re handling it and how progress is going.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,228 Member
    sojcherb wrote: »
    @vlvmom2014 I couldn't agree with you more. I'm all for slow weight loss and sustainable eating. I was on WW before Covid and lost about 14 pounds that way. But during the year of Covid I had hip replacement surgery and then a double knee replacement. I ended up gaining the weight back during that time because people were bringing me food (which I ate) and because I was less active. And now, all of a sudden, WW no longer working for me anymore and I was pretty consistently tracking for over a year so I can definitely say I gave it enough time. This is how I decided to explore a different approach and that's why I'm here. The one thing I CAN'T do is cut down my calorie in take to the point where it's not sustainable. I've been down that road before. I just still haven't found that sweet spot that will allow me to consistently see progress.

    Maybe you've already done this, but experimenting with food choices and timing of eating may help you feel more satisfied on slightly lower calories. If you notice that you're more crave-y on some days than others, try to notice what the difference is - food choices that day or the day before, relative size of meals, having a snack or not, timing of eating vs. workouts . . . it can even be sleep being better or worse, or stress levels.

    I'm not trying to convince you to cut calories to the bone, because that's not a path of thriving. I'm a huge believer in eating the maximum number of calories one can, while still losing at a reasonably satisfying rate. But here you're telling us you believe you aren't losing weight, or it's super slow . . . but that cutting further might be unsustainable. That's why I'm talking about other things that might - just maybe - be able to change and improve sustainability, not just trying to sell you on low calories.

    In general, your nutrition looks good, you're already eating quite few whole foods (which tend to be filling for a lot of people), but some of the satiation/energy issues can be very individual and surprisingly specific, which is why I bring up carefully analyzing food choices and eating timing.

    If you don't use one now, you might also want to consider using a weight trending app. They're not a magic crystal ball, just a thing that uses statistics to try to estimate the actual weight trend behind the daily random ups and downs. The one for Apple is Happy Scale, but there's also Libra for Android, Trendweight (requires a free Fitbit account but not a device, I believe), Weightgrapher, and probably others. They can mislead sometimes, but I've found mine helpful.

    Given what you say about your surgeries, I'd repeat the comment I made in the other thread about maybe working on increasing your daily life non-exercise movement. I know when I've gone through some relatively lengthy immobilizing health issue, lower activity can become automatic or habitual almost unnoticed, and I have to ratchet it back up again as it becomes feasible. That was this link:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1

    Best wishes!
  • Katydidit2023
    Katydidit2023 Posts: 5 Member
    1200 seems to be working well for me, but tonight I really blew it. A friend came in from out of town and took us to dinner for Mexican. I went over my 1200 by 91calories & I really feel as though I've let myself down. I know tomorrow is a new day, & I just need to get back on track.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,228 Member
    edited May 2023
    kwlamberton wrote: »
    1200 seems to be working well for me, but tonight I really blew it. A friend came in from out of town and took us to dinner for Mexican. I went over my 1200 by 91calories & I really feel as though I've let myself down. I know tomorrow is a new day, & I just need to get back on track.

    Didn't you tell us you'd been losing about a pound a week on 1200? If so, that 91 calories means you'll lose .026 pounds less than one pound this week . . . about an ounce and a half. Your daily calorie expenditures in real life probably differ more than 91 calories on a day when you're especially busy vs. one that's especially placid. Besides, it was an actual special occasion, friend in from out of town.

    Is that worth feeling like you "really blew it" and "let yourself down"? I wouldn't, personally. YMMV.

    ETA: If you do feel that bad about it, maybe eat 1180 calories instead of 1200 for the next 5 days, then you're ahead of the game. Our bodies don't reset at midnight, even though MFP does. But I don't believe in "making up for it" after an over goal day, either - it doesn't much matter in the big picture, honestly.
  • Katydidit2023
    Katydidit2023 Posts: 5 Member
    No, actually I haven't moved from 171.1 since I started. I am somewhat small of stature. I'm 5'2". But, I've dropped from about 225 (while taking chemo & steroids) to where I am now.
  • sojcherb
    sojcherb Posts: 23 Member
    @AnnPT77 Thank you for your very thoughtful response. I am playing around with timing as well as food choices. My functional medicine doctor told me to eat larger meals with enough protein and fat to sustain me so that I don't eat between meals. I'm finding that this, along with really keeping the sugar down makes me go for quite long periods of time where I'm not hungry. That's a really positive change.

    As far as the exercise/movement goes, I am recovered enough to pretty much move as well as I used to, except that I'm not comfortable jumping so most of my movement is very low impact. I am back to speed walking and am comfortable on a bike but I haven't been back to spin class in a while. It's mostly my job (HS teacher) that limits me time-wise but I do work out regularly.

    I guess I just need to be patient but it has been almost two years since I gained that weight and haven't been able to see it go.
  • sojcherb
    sojcherb Posts: 23 Member
    @tomcustombuilder I do spend a lot of time sitting and working but I also run around my school building a lot on work days and I exercise 5-7 days a week, even if it's just a short walk. I classify myself as lightly active, is that right?
  • sojcherb
    sojcherb Posts: 23 Member
    @kwlamberton I definitely wouldn't feel guilty about overshooting by 91 calories for 1 day!
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,228 Member
    sojcherb wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 Thank you for your very thoughtful response. I am playing around with timing as well as food choices. My functional medicine doctor told me to eat larger meals with enough protein and fat to sustain me so that I don't eat between meals. I'm finding that this, along with really keeping the sugar down makes me go for quite long periods of time where I'm not hungry. That's a really positive change.

    As far as the exercise/movement goes, I am recovered enough to pretty much move as well as I used to, except that I'm not comfortable jumping so most of my movement is very low impact. I am back to speed walking and am comfortable on a bike but I haven't been back to spin class in a while. It's mostly my job (HS teacher) that limits me time-wise but I do work out regularly.

    I guess I just need to be patient but it has been almost two years since I gained that weight and haven't been able to see it go.

    You're talking about exercise movement there. I'm talking about non-exercise movement - routine daily life movement.

    When we're ill or injured, we can get in the habit of moving less without even really noticing. (It happens automatically because it's uncomfortable to move, or we're fatigued, etc. But the habit can stick around afterward.) Researchers believe that a fidgety person can burn a couple more hundred calories daily than an otherwise similar non-fidgety person. I'm not suggesting that you fidget, but that research is an indication that our unconscious, spontaneous daily life movement can matter surprisingly much. There's other research showing that obese people exhibit less spontaneous movement - these small daily things - compared to non-obese but otherwise similar people.

    I'm happy to hear that your functional medicine doctor's advice about meal size and timing has been appropriate and helpful for you. That's not always the case. IMO, it's important to realize that advice like that is a "most people" kind of thing . . . if folks find out that the advice doesn't hold up for them, it doesn't mean they're a failure, it just means they're statistically unusual, and there's nothing wrong with that. We see people here eating anything from one meal a day only, to doing near-steady all-day grazing on small amounts of food, and everything in between . . . and finding that that strategy best meets their needs for satiation and energy at lower calories.

    You're not the only one I've seen say that eating 3 meals and no snacks works best. For me, it works best to have a small snack if a meal isn't coming up soon, and I feel signficantly peckish. If I do otherwise, I tend to overdo at that next meal. People vary - part of what makes life interesting, I think! ;)
  • sojcherb
    sojcherb Posts: 23 Member
    @AnnPT77 @westrich20940 @tomcustombuilder Just following up. Over the past two weeks I focused on not eating the full 1700 calories that I budgeted per day. Most days I have left over in the range of 100-150 calories but I did allow myself the full amount of calories this past weekend (Friday/Saturday). I'm happy to report that I'm finally seeing downward movement on the scale!
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,228 Member
    sojcherb wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 @westrich20940 @tomcustombuilder Just following up. Over the past two weeks I focused on not eating the full 1700 calories that I budgeted per day. Most days I have left over in the range of 100-150 calories but I did allow myself the full amount of calories this past weekend (Friday/Saturday). I'm happy to report that I'm finally seeing downward movement on the scale!

    There ya go: Find the right calorie level, lose weight. Good show, @sojcherb!
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    Jmatievich wrote: »
    I don’t know how large you are but that’s a lot of calories. I eat 1270 per day and don’t eat back exercise calories. I’m 68 and lose 1 lb per week. I need 1270 to feel satisfied so 1lb per week it is.

    You've probably since seen that the OP is 5'6", which is also my height. I started off on MFP at 1200 calories. At lunch time the first day I realized I needed to up that :lol:

    But if 1270 works for you, carry on. However, if you use MFP to set your calorie goal, exercise, but don't eat back any exercise calories, you are not using MFP the way it was designed.

    https://support.myfitnesspal.com/hc/en-us/articles/360032625391-How-does-MyFitnessPal-calculate-my-initial-goals-

    Unlike other sites which use TDEE calculators, MFP uses the NEAT method (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis), and as such this system is designed for exercise calories to be eaten back. However, many consider the burns given by MFP to be inflated for them and only eat a percentage, such as 50%, back. Others are able to lose weight while eating 100% of their exercise calories.

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