Good fats

Be careful with saturated fat - that fat is an artery clogger....

Says who?

Doctors, scientists, nutritionists, dieticians

Please cite the studies showing that saturated fat is bad for you, is an "artery clogger" or is the cause of CVD and CHD.

Look them up if you want the individual studies. You'll have to find several, analyze the results and mertis of each, then analyze the all the findings as a whole and then get some others to do the same and compare your findings to make any knowledable theories about the outcomes. I don't have the time or training for that. I'll stick to recommendations from trusted sources who've already done that for me.

You're a vegetarian, are you not? So you have a natural bias towards plant based foods which typically have unsaturated fats. Therefore, IMO, you are not as qualified to discuss this as someone with an unbiased opinion. It is my opinion, that as a vegetarian, you would completely disregard any and all research that does not back up your beliefs. Your opinion does not make studies relevant or irrelevant. It's the participants studied, science, and research that in fact validate the claims. IMO...

You would assume that someone who is a vegetarian is vegetarian for health reasons. Some of us just feel bad eating animals.

I still eat dairy (full fat cheese, even) and eggs. Don't ASSume something just because someone eats little to no meat unless you know that person's views on nutrition.

I was talking directly TO bcatt...not ALL vegetarians because I have seen her make multiple anti-saturated fats comments in threads. So don't ASSume I'm talking to all veges when the comment isn't directed at YOU.

"You're a vegetarian, are you not? So you have a natural bias towards plant based foods which typically have unsaturated fats."

If you meant only her, then you should have specified.

Be careful with saturated fat - that fat is an artery clogger....

Says who?

Doctors, scientists, nutritionists, dieticians

Please cite the studies showing that saturated fat is bad for you, is an "artery clogger" or is the cause of CVD and CHD.

Look them up if you want the individual studies. You'll have to find several, analyze the results and mertis of each, then analyze the all the findings as a whole and then get some others to do the same and compare your findings to make any knowledable theories about the outcomes. I don't have the time or training for that. I'll stick to recommendations from trusted sources who've already done that for me.

You're a vegetarian, are you not? So you have a natural bias towards plant based foods which typically have unsaturated fats. Therefore, IMO, you are not as qualified to discuss this as someone with an unbiased opinion. It is my opinion, that as a vegetarian, you would completely disregard any and all research that does not back up your beliefs. Your opinion does not make studies relevant or irrelevant. It's the participants studied, science, and research that in fact validate the claims. IMO...

No, I am not vegetarian (my diary is open). No meat yesterday, but chicken on Sunday and Philly cheese steak sandwiches on Saturday (with lean meat and reduced fat cheese, of course ) But I am guilty of loving plant based foods.

Just yesterday you commented on another thread that there are plenty of protien sources that don't have to be chased when they are running out of fear all around us. That lead me to believe that you don't eat animals. I apologize for the misconception you gave.

While I agree with that statement, I did not post that. You must have me confused with someone else.

It was you, but it was a thread I didn't comment on. So since I can't go back in to quote you, you win this one. Booo.

Be careful with saturated fat - that fat is an artery clogger....

Says who?

Doctors, scientists, nutritionists, dieticians

Please cite the studies showing that saturated fat is bad for you, is an "artery clogger" or is the cause of CVD and CHD.

Look them up if you want the individual studies. You'll have to find several, analyze the results and mertis of each, then analyze the all the findings as a whole and then get some others to do the same and compare your findings to make any knowledable theories about the outcomes. I don't have the time or training for that. I'll stick to recommendations from trusted sources who've already done that for me.

You're a vegetarian, are you not? So you have a natural bias towards plant based foods which typically have unsaturated fats. Therefore, IMO, you are not as qualified to discuss this as someone with an unbiased opinion. It is my opinion, that as a vegetarian, you would completely disregard any and all research that does not back up your beliefs. Your opinion does not make studies relevant or irrelevant. It's the participants studied, science, and research that in fact validate the claims. IMO...

No, I am not vegetarian (my diary is open). No meat yesterday, but chicken on Sunday and Philly cheese steak sandwiches on Saturday (with lean meat and reduced fat cheese, of course ) But I am guilty of loving plant based foods.

FOUND IT! It was you! The thread "Fat Head" Bcattoes: "Why would anyone spend time chasing, killing, and butchering animals when there was food that doesn't fight back everywhere you look?"

The dietician in the cardiac unit for one.

Be careful with saturated fat - that fat is an artery clogger....

Says who?

Doctors, scientists, nutritionists, dieticians

Please cite the studies showing that saturated fat is bad for you, is an "artery clogger" or is the cause of CVD and CHD.

Look them up if you want the individual studies. You'll have to find several, analyze the results and mertis of each, then analyze the all the findings as a whole and then get some others to do the same and compare your findings to make any knowledable theories about the outcomes. I don't have the time or training for that. I'll stick to recommendations from trusted sources who've already done that for me.

You're a vegetarian, are you not? So you have a natural bias towards plant based foods which typically have unsaturated fats. Therefore, IMO, you are not as qualified to discuss this as someone with an unbiased opinion. It is my opinion, that as a vegetarian, you would completely disregard any and all research that does not back up your beliefs. Your opinion does not make studies relevant or irrelevant. It's the participants studied, science, and research that in fact validate the claims. IMO...

No, I am not vegetarian (my diary is open). No meat yesterday, but chicken on Sunday and Philly cheese steak sandwiches on Saturday (with lean meat and reduced fat cheese, of course ) But I am guilty of loving plant based foods.

FOUND IT! It was you! The thread "Fat Head" Bcattoes: "Why would anyone spend time chasing, killing, and butchering animals when there was food that doesn't fight back everywhere you look?"

Ah, yes. Those crazy cavemen! I knew the "running in fear" thing wasn't mine. I was refering to the effort it takes to procure meat without a gun or grocery store vs. picking a tasty veggie to eat. I still say, I think I'd have gone for the veggies.

Does this mean no prize for me?

Be careful with saturated fat - that fat is an artery clogger....

Says who?

Doctors, scientists, nutritionists, dieticians

Please cite the studies showing that saturated fat is bad for you, is an "artery clogger" or is the cause of CVD and CHD.

Look them up if you want the individual studies. You'll have to find several, analyze the results and mertis of each, then analyze the all the findings as a whole and then get some others to do the same and compare your findings to make any knowledable theories about the outcomes. I don't have the time or training for that. I'll stick to recommendations from trusted sources who've already done that for me.

You're a vegetarian, are you not? So you have a natural bias towards plant based foods which typically have unsaturated fats. Therefore, IMO, you are not as qualified to discuss this as someone with an unbiased opinion. It is my opinion, that as a vegetarian, you would completely disregard any and all research that does not back up your beliefs. Your opinion does not make studies relevant or irrelevant. It's the participants studied, science, and research that in fact validate the claims. IMO...

No, I am not vegetarian (my diary is open). No meat yesterday, but chicken on Sunday and Philly cheese steak sandwiches on Saturday (with lean meat and reduced fat cheese, of course ) But I am guilty of loving plant based foods.

FOUND IT! It was you! The thread "Fat Head" Bcattoes: "Why would anyone spend time chasing, killing, and butchering animals when there was food that doesn't fight back everywhere you look?"

Ah, yes. Those crazy cavemen! I knew the "running in fear" thing wasn't mine. I was refering to the effort it takes to procure meat without a gun or grocery store vs. picking a tasty veggie to eat. I still say, I think I'd have gone for the veggies.

Does this mean no prize for me?

It was a tie. We split the prize.

Bcatt I just spent the last 30 minutes or so perusing Walter Witt's site where he actually posts and has links to NIH studies.

Would you like to know how many studies he linked to SATURATED FAT correlating to CVD AND CHD?

None.

Zero.

Zilch.

Nada.


Wanna know why?

Wait...don't answer that.

And yet the recommendation is there. Hmm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648

RESULTS:

During 5-23 y of follow-up of 347,747 subjects, 11,006 developed CHD or stroke. Intake of saturated fat was not associated with an increased risk of CHD, stroke, or CVD. The pooled relative risk estimates that compared extreme quantiles of saturated fat intake were 1.07 (95% CI: 0.96, 1.19; P = 0.22) for CHD, 0.81 (95% CI: 0.62, 1.05; P = 0.11) for stroke, and 1.00 (95% CI: 0.89, 1.11; P = 0.95) for CVD. Consideration of age, sex, and study quality did not change the results.
CONCLUSIONS:

A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat.

********

My comments: the study showed that Sat fat consumption in general, raised LDL levels, but that did not seem to be associated with an increase in CVD. Lowering sat fat consumption did not lead to a decrease in CVD.

If anything, I think sat fat's effect on your body is highly context dependent. If you are a lazy couch potato. I would certainly NOT recommend eating a diet high in sat fats. If you are active and workout regularly and maintain a reasonably trim figure, sat fats can actually be beneficial as they can help boost your testosterone.

The medical community is moving toward lessening the significance of LDL and realizing the importance of VLDLs.

A wee bit too much information. They simply asked how bad it would be if they went over on fat since their love of certain foods contain good fats. Let's reel it down a bit.

Without trying to get too technical about everything, basically 1 fat gram is 9 calories as I have said earlier. Protein and carbs are only 4 calories per gram. Take this as you may, but you want to learn the different types of fats. There are many studies out there but in general if items assumed to be bad are eaten in moderation such as beef, you would be fine. It's also how it is prepared that makes the difference. Is it cooked in bacon grease or in a much healthier substitution?

Fish has the good fats if prepared correctly.

Beef, steak, etc all are saturated fats that this discuss has ran crazy about. If you have a small calorie limit, focus on eating simply 1 burger with good toppings that don't kill your calories for the day. Having 2 burgers will put you over for sure.

Eggs, avacados, etc, are ok again if in moderation and how it is prepared.

Trans fat are bad period. They should be avoided.

Like I mentioned, if you are getting close to your calorie limit, then you might want to focus on eatting food with a lot of fat because that may be what is putting you over the top.

Bcatt I just spent the last 30 minutes or so perusing Walter Witt's site where he actually posts and has links to NIH studies.

Would you like to know how many studies he linked to SATURATED FAT correlating to CVD AND CHD?

None.

Zero.

Zilch.

Nada.


Wanna know why?

Wait...don't answer that.

And yet the recommendation is there. Hmm

The recommendation by a doctor who says so? Ok Bcatt. I'll take proven research and cited studies moreso.

What's actually amusing is that Dr. Witt posts studies by the NIH, but failed to post any by the NIH regarding saturated fat and CVD/CHD or even LDL cholesterol. He obviously trusts studies that the NIH makes public, but ...........didn't post any of the number of studies regarding saturated fats.

Then he comes out and says saturated fats lead to CVD and CHD, yet doesn't post any studies regarding it.

It's because there ISNT ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE ISSUE THAT SATURATED FAT LEADS TO CVD OR CHD.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

You seem to be getting irate and if I caused that by believing Dr. Willet's recommendations over yours, then I apologize. Not for taking his advice, but for inadvertently making you angry. You can repeat your opinion and your cherry picked studies all day, but in the end, I'm still going to take his advice. Sorry if that upsets you.

Bcatt I just spent the last 30 minutes or so perusing Walter Witt's site where he actually posts and has links to NIH studies.

Would you like to know how many studies he linked to SATURATED FAT correlating to CVD AND CHD?

None.

Zero.

Zilch.

Nada.


Wanna know why?

Wait...don't answer that.

And yet the recommendation is there. Hmm

The recommendation by a doctor who says so? Ok Bcatt. I'll take proven research and cited studies moreso.

What's actually amusing is that Dr. Witt posts studies by the NIH, but failed to post any by the NIH regarding saturated fat and CVD/CHD or even LDL cholesterol. He obviously trusts studies that the NIH makes public, but ...........didn't post any of the number of studies regarding saturated fats.

Then he comes out and says saturated fats lead to CVD and CHD, yet doesn't post any studies regarding it.

It's because there ISNT ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE ISSUE THAT SATURATED FAT LEADS TO CVD OR CHD.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

You seem to be getting irate and if I caused that by believing Dr. Willet's recommendations over yours, then I apologize. Not for taking his advice, but for inadvertently making you angry. You can repeat your opinion and your cherry picked studies all day, but in the end, I'm still going to take his advice. Sorry if that upsets you.

I'm not irate or angry. I understand that you are set in your beliefs, regardless of how it defies researched evidence based on cited studies. Of which Dr. Willet failed to provide on his site.

Bcatt since you still won't cite anything, and you keep rambling on I will lend you a hand. (for the 20th time in fact)

Also "high in saturated fat" is subjective. Of course if you eat over your macro requirements you may have some problems. Like if you eat 300g of fats a day sure. If you have way too much calcium in a day, or too many carbs in a day.

Anyways, moving on to the studies:

Abstract
Background: A reduction in dietary saturated fat has generally been thought to improve cardiovascular health.

Objective: The objective of this meta-analysis was to summarize the evidence related to the association of dietary saturated fat with risk of coronary heart disease (CHD), stroke, and cardiovascular disease (CVD; CHD inclusive of stroke) in prospective epidemiologic studies.

Design: Twenty-one studies identified by searching MEDLINE and EMBASE databases and secondary referencing qualified for inclusion in this study. A random-effects model was used to derive composite relative risk estimates for CHD, stroke, and CVD.

Results: During 5–23 y of follow-up of 347,747 subjects, 11,006 developed CHD or stroke. Intake of saturated fat was not associated with an increased risk of CHD, stroke, or CVD. The pooled relative risk estimates that compared extreme quantiles of saturated fat intake were 1.07 (95% CI: 0.96, 1.19; P = 0.22) for CHD, 0.81 (95% CI: 0.62, 1.05; P = 0.11) for stroke, and 1.00 (95% CI: 0.89, 1.11; P = 0.95) for CVD. Consideration of age, sex, and study quality did not change the results.

Conclusions: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat.

Received March 6, 2009.
Accepted November 25, 2009.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract

Next ....


I would like you to go to this next site, scroll down to the bottom and read all the studies or atleast some of them regarding Saturated Fat, Cholesterol, and CVD/CHD. I don't really feel the need to quote every single word. Just read.

http://www.askscooby.com/nutrition-39/the-truth-about-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol

Now that you have attacked all vegetarians as biased because we don't eat animals, I would like to suggest that you as a meat-eater, might also possess some bias. based upon your own logic. Perhaps some of us have become vegetarians because we have done research and have read studies and are convinced that eating whole plant-based foods is the healthiest way to live.

I looked at the article you cite from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. This journal is a publication of The American Society for Nutrition.

The American Society for Nutrition is a corporate-sponsored group that caters to the financial and political interests of its members like GlaxoSmithKline, Eli Lilly, Monsanto, Procter & Gamble, the Sugar Association, Abbott Laboratories, National Cattlemen's Beef Association, ConAgra Foods, National Dairy Council, PepsiCo and the drug giant Wyeth. (http://www.nutrition.org/media/abou...)

For its role in the Smart Choices scheme, the American Society for Nutrition has received the Integrity Disgrace Award from TheNewIQ.com. (http://www.thenewiq.com/integritywa...).

Page 19 of its 2007-2008 annual report explains that the American Society for Nutrition seeks to "Position [itself] as an authoritative leader in nutrition through science."

Sadly, with enough money, you can make the case for just about any idea you want to sell to the public.

I absolutely LOVE eggs, avacado's, peanut/almond butter, nuts, mackerel but find that every time I eat them I go over my fat. I would love to be able to eat more of these foods.

So, what I would like to know is does it matter if I go over my fat content with good fats?

No it does not matter if you go over your fat ratio with good fats. The fats in your example foods are good fats.

You can alter MFP ratios to whatever ratios are consistent with your goals. Personally mine are set for 20% carbs, 50% fat, and 30% protein.

I absolutely LOVE eggs, avacado's, peanut/almond butter, nuts, mackerel but find that every time I eat them I go over my fat. I would love to be able to eat more of these foods.

So, what I would like to know is does it matter if I go over my fat content with good fats?

No it does not matter if you go over your fat ratio with good fats. The fats in your example foods are good fats.

You can alter MFP ratios to whatever ratios are consistent with your goals. Personally mine are set for 20% carbs, 50% fat, and 30% protein.

Mine are about the same. In addition to eggs, avocados, some nuts, and fatty fish, I put some whole cream in my coffee, olive oil in my salads and I cook in coconut oil or beef tallow.

Ah, yes. Those crazy cavemen! I knew the "running in fear" thing wasn't mine. I was refering to the effort it takes to procure meat without a gun or grocery store vs. picking a tasty veggie to eat. I still say, I think I'd have gone for the veggies.

Does this mean no prize for me?

Next time you go camping let me know how easy it is to find 2000 calories of vegetable matter. :happy:

We usually take food camping with us. But nuts, seeds, legumes and roots are pretty high calorie. Maybe I wouldn't need 2000 calories if I wasn't chasing after animals running in fear (or running from those that didn't fear me but were pretty p.o'd that I wanted to eat them).