Why is this such a big deal in Zumba/studio classes
ninerbuff
Posts: 49,001 Member
So the other day when I instructed class, I had to diffuse two women arguing about a "spot" on the floor in class. Each was claiming that it was their space. Both have attended my classes but this was the first time that both did together. Both usually take the same spot (at the front of the class).
I know people have their preferred spots that they like to go to in a class, but if the class is full, you take any spot open right? I've only had this happen a couple of times in my class, but I have had one of my peers who teaches Zumba go through this on a regular basis.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I know people have their preferred spots that they like to go to in a class, but if the class is full, you take any spot open right? I've only had this happen a couple of times in my class, but I have had one of my peers who teaches Zumba go through this on a regular basis.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Replies
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Women are sooooooo competitive, territorial, and argumentative generally...and I'm a woman so I deal with this kind of Karen behavior on a regular basis.
Ego. Entitlement. Princess.
Sorry, ladies, but it's true.
To be fair, men do the same type stuff, just not at Zumba. Haven't you ever overheard raised voices from men in the weight room over stations or re-racking or wiping down or whatever?
Ego. Entitlement. King baby.
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We don't have a reracking issue in my gym because it's enforced (mostly by me) and we let all new clients know about the policy early. We don't even allow crocs or slippers to be worn on gym floor.cmriverside wrote: »Women are sooooooo competitive, territorial, and argumentative generally...and I'm a woman so I deal with this kind of Karen behavior on a regular basis.
Ego. Entitlement. Princess.
Sorry, ladies, but it's true.
To be fair, men do the same type stuff, just not at Zumba. Haven't you ever overheard raised voices from men in the weight room over stations or re-racking or wiping down or whatever?
Ego. Entitlement. King baby.
What the men will argue about is TIME ON EQUIPMENT. Some dudes camp out on benches or with dumbbells for long periods of time.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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People are creatures of habit, regardless of gender.
Anecdote: I once had a multi-day training at work and I was the first to arrive in the classroom the second day. I (intentionally) sat down in a different spot and I could just see the disturbed look on the others' faces as they entered and saw I wasn't follow the previous day's seating 😄
In zumba and similar classes, I can imagine the moves/choreography might be harder to follow if your viewpoint is very different from usual?3 -
I understand it--that doesn't mean it's worth fighting over.
I always have the same place in acquagym, I'm tall and want to be in deep water, and I've been doing this for 27 years so have difficulty with newbies that crowd because they have trouble staying in the same place. I like deep water at the end of the pool and I'm usually by myself. HOWEVER, sometimes someone takes that spot and I just go to another.
Tai Chi is harder because to see the moves it's easiest in the middle. On the fringes, once you do a turn, you can wind up by yourself with no one to watch.0 -
Mostly, I'm with riverside, but with a couple of wrinkles.
Having worked for 30 years in a male dominated field, I think men do the same kind of thing, just over slightly different issues, and expressing it in somewhat different ways.
IMO, there are two ways to think of it abstractly: Honor culture (writ small) or ranking behavior. Honor culture, loosely: "If I am affronted, I must reclaim my honor by action." a.k.a. "Nobody going to diss me!" Ranking behavior: "We will establish a social hierarchy, a pecking order. If my position in the Proper Order is challenged, I will reassert myself to hold my place." Honor culture and ranking behavior are interrelated, but not identical. Exceptions may apply for people who are not neurotypical.
I think (some) women may be more likely to act out over small social slights because of not feeling empowered in larger things in their lives. IMO, it's not so much a strong ego, as a weak one that has to be defended because of an inner sense of being on a slippery slope to even less power. I'm not going to belabor this, but in the workplace, women with less power seemed more likely to vociferously defend small things.
In some ways, in some people, it's easier to let small things go if it doesn't chip away at an already weak ego to do so. IME, it's more likely to be stronger people who are able to let small things go.
I did see the same thing, to some extent, in the regular spin classes I attended twice a week pre-pandemic . . . but with the wrinkle that the whole set of class regulars knew who was touchy about "their bike" and would guide newbies who arrived before that person to a different bike. We also knew who was flexible/didn't care.People are creatures of habit, regardless of gender.
Anecdote: I once had a multi-day training at work and I was the first to arrive in the classroom the second day. I (intentionally) sat down in a different spot and I could just see the disturbed look on the others' faces as they entered and saw I wasn't follow the previous day's seating 😄
In zumba and similar classes, I can imagine the moves/choreography might be harder to follow if your viewpoint is very different from usual?
Yup to the general observation. Our management team (15+ people) had recurring meetings. Noticing that people always sat in the same spot, I started making it a point to sit in different places each time, including sometimes sitting in "someone else's spot". It was interesting. Initially people were a little rattled, but eventually it seemed like the group as a whole loosened up.snowflake954 wrote: »(snip)
Tai Chi is harder because to see the moves it's easiest in the middle. On the fringes, once you do a turn, you can wind up by yourself with no one to watch.
When I was advisor (and participant but not instructor) in the local university kung fu and Tai Chi club, we made new participants stand in the best spot up front, so they could see/follow better. With that particular form, the best spot was in front, somewhat to the instructor's left, participants' right. That was because more complicated-to-follow things happened more in the "to your left" direction.
It was a group culture thing, like another rule we had that no one was allowed to watch: They had to participate, or were asked to leave.
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Mostly, I'm with riverside, but with a couple of wrinkles.
Having worked for 30 years in a male dominated field, I think men do the same kind of thing, just over slightly different issues, and expressing it in somewhat different ways.
IMO, there are two ways to think of it abstractly: Honor culture (writ small) or ranking behavior. Honor culture, loosely: "If I am affronted, I must reclaim my honor by action." a.k.a. "Nobody going to diss me!" Ranking behavior: "We will establish a social hierarchy, a pecking order. If my position in the Proper Order is challenged, I will reassert myself to hold my place." Honor culture and ranking behavior are interrelated, but not identical. Exceptions may apply for people who are not neurotypical.
I think (some) women may be more likely to act out over small social slights because of not feeling empowered in larger things in their lives. IMO, it's not so much a strong ego, as a weak one that has to be defended because of an inner sense of being on a slippery slope to even less power. I'm not going to belabor this, but in the workplace, women with less power seemed more likely to vociferously defend small things.
In some ways, in some people, it's easier to let small things go if it doesn't chip away at an already weak ego to do so. IME, it's more likely to be stronger people who are able to let small things go.
I did see the same thing, to some extent, in the regular spin classes I attended twice a week pre-pandemic . . . but with the wrinkle that the whole set of class regulars knew who was touchy about "their bike" and would guide newbies who arrived before that person to a different bike. We also knew who was flexible/didn't care.People are creatures of habit, regardless of gender.
Anecdote: I once had a multi-day training at work and I was the first to arrive in the classroom the second day. I (intentionally) sat down in a different spot and I could just see the disturbed look on the others' faces as they entered and saw I wasn't follow the previous day's seating 😄
In zumba and similar classes, I can imagine the moves/choreography might be harder to follow if your viewpoint is very different from usual?
Yup to the general observation. Our management team (15+ people) had recurring meetings. Noticing that people always sat in the same spot, I started making it a point to sit in different places each time, including sometimes sitting in "someone else's spot". It was interesting. Initially people were a little rattled, but eventually it seemed like the group as a whole loosened up.snowflake954 wrote: »(snip)
Tai Chi is harder because to see the moves it's easiest in the middle. On the fringes, once you do a turn, you can wind up by yourself with no one to watch.
When I was advisor (and participant but not instructor) in the local university kung fu and Tai Chi club, we made new participants stand in the best spot up front, so they could see/follow better. With that particular form, the best spot was in front, somewhat to the instructor's left, participants' right. That was because more complicated-to-follow things happened more in the "to your left" direction.
It was a group culture thing, like another rule we had that no one was allowed to watch: They had to participate, or were asked to leave.
Problem is ---in Tai Chi most of us are fairly new to it.
There can be other reasons why people want a certain place. In Yogaflex class I have a hard time hearing the instructor if I'm up close to him and the music (it's a little loud even though it's supposed to be calming). Since we're down on the floor, I have to hear. I have a hearing aid and if I wind up in the back, I can't hear him either. So, I need to be in the middle. When someone is insisting on a certain spot, it may be for reasons we don't know. I try to give people a little slack, and hope they do the same for me.3 -
cmriverside wrote: »Women are sooooooo competitive, territorial, and argumentative generally...and I'm a woman so I deal with this kind of Karen behavior on a regular basis.
Ego. Entitlement. Princess.
Sorry, ladies, but it's true.
To be fair, men do the same type stuff, just not at Zumba. Haven't you ever overheard raised voices from men in the weight room over stations or re-racking or wiping down or whatever?
Ego. Entitlement. King baby.
I can’t speak to the issue you ran into @Ninerbuff but glad you could diplomatically diffuse.
If someone wanted my spot, I probably would just say sure- here ya go. I haven’t encountered this in any class nor seen it in over 15 years of group classes. I hope they emerged amicably. It’s not the norm.
I was in a 🩰 ballet class today. There is only so much room at the barre. It was a lovely, warm group as usual. Kind people still exist. Phew.
@cmriverside - In my own experience- I’ve not encountered this in years or in my day to day life. In fact I’ve experienced the opposite.. years of respectable behavior. That’s my n=1. I’ve been blessed to be surrounded by honorable, exemplary, powerful female role models.
I’m also a woman - and I disagree with the characterization of female kind. I do not find myself enveloped by any of the poor behavior you find yourself in the midst of generally - in order to qualify it as the normative female attitude. In fact quite the opposite. My clubs and classes have always had civil women and courteous group ethics. I see this daily in social settings and in my personal life.
Perhaps I’m fortunate to be surrounded by civilized, egalitarian women? Maybe. I concede we all have different experiences
Though I was saddened to read your response @cmriverside - it’s such a bleak, generalized, diminishing read on females to which -I as a woman - surrounded by women - have not endured. This isn’t to discount your world view or experience, but rather share that also as a woman, that has not been the atmosphere I have seen or been a part of.
I contest the generalization.
There are equitable, uplifting, warm women everywhere that are secure, affable and considerate. I hope you meet more of them in the world. They exist!
I believe the language we use is important. I was disheartened to hear the slur Karen brought up to marginalize woman. I’m pro free speech, I hope you are pro hearing my alternative viewpoint.
The Karen' slur is a woman-hating, racist, pejorative term that attempts to put women in their place and silence them..
To not call it out would be complicit in slanderous speech. The fact that it’s being normalized in some circles culturally and on MFP doesn’t mean that some women find this term to be less offensive.
We can disagree and still maintain a respectful tone online and in the gym.
“Women are sooooooo competitive, territorial, and argumentative generally...and I'm a woman so I deal with this kind of Karen behavior on a regular basis.”
Once again, I respectfully disagree. I suppose I’m going to have to qualify this. I’m surrounded by female friends and strangers of all backgrounds, I don’t find a general consensus of territorial, argumentative women roaming the streets.
I strive to uplift those around me and I’ve championed women particularly who work for and with me. I’ve been mentored and encouraged by some of the most gracious women in the workplace.
In fact - I’ve been fortunate to have women in my life who are immensely generous of spirit and extremely kind hearted and courteous. I hope you meet more of them.
I don’t endure a culture of “entitled egotistical princesses.”
“Sorry, ladies, but it's true.”
It may indeed be your truth. That is disheartening. It’s not my truth. It’s not my experience at all.
Years ago, women were called “hysterical” to put them in their place.
As women entered the work force, if they were assertive, they were called a b****. All attempts to silence women and make them know their place. Hysteria was a misogynist construct. The term Karen is the latest of many words constructed by certain areas of society to malign, silence and continue to put them in their place. This one is just more racist and inflammatory.
Surely a group of MFPers who chat about good health and wellness can elevate?
- warmly, a woman.
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I'm a good follower, I'm terrible at memorizing. I've been line dancing for maybe 20 years. People try to put me on the ends so I can lead in 4-wall dances. BIG MISTAKE. And all the instructors know it. But other participants just don't get it, keep pushing me to the ends. I'll fight for my space.
Any other class, pick your space. I'll find a spot.2 -
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Since I'm in a studio, all the walls are covered in mirrors, so you can see just about every angle I choreography class. Maybe, but I don't think that's the real issue.People are creatures of habit, regardless of gender.
Anecdote: I once had a multi-day training at work and I was the first to arrive in the classroom the second day. I (intentionally) sat down in a different spot and I could just see the disturbed look on the others' faces as they entered and saw I wasn't follow the previous day's seating 😄
In zumba and similar classes, I can imagine the moves/choreography might be harder to follow if your viewpoint is very different from usual?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Since I'm in a studio, all the walls are covered in mirrors, so you can see just about every angle I choreography class. Maybe, but I don't think that's the real issue.People are creatures of habit, regardless of gender.
Anecdote: I once had a multi-day training at work and I was the first to arrive in the classroom the second day. I (intentionally) sat down in a different spot and I could just see the disturbed look on the others' faces as they entered and saw I wasn't follow the previous day's seating 😄
In zumba and similar classes, I can imagine the moves/choreography might be harder to follow if your viewpoint is very different from usual?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I've never done a zumba class in my life, but trying to follow a choreography while looking at mirror images of it sounds like a recipe for disaster
But yeah, even if that was an issue, it probably wouldn't be only or major reason.0 -
Since I'm in a studio, all the walls are covered in mirrors, so you can see just about every angle I choreography class. Maybe, but I don't think that's the real issue.People are creatures of habit, regardless of gender.
Anecdote: I once had a multi-day training at work and I was the first to arrive in the classroom the second day. I (intentionally) sat down in a different spot and I could just see the disturbed look on the others' faces as they entered and saw I wasn't follow the previous day's seating 😄
In zumba and similar classes, I can imagine the moves/choreography might be harder to follow if your viewpoint is very different from usual?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
It's probably pure entitlement. It doesn't make sense but some people feel they have so little control in their lives so they try to grasp at the one thing they can control, in this case a spot in a class.
It's sad really.1 -
It could be any number of simple reasons why that’s a prime spot that have nothing to do with ego or whatever.
My hot yoga studio has a hump down the middle of the floor that makes me nuts. The back door leaks cold air. There’s spots that have snotty looking tape gum from Covid spacing markings. My absolute favorite spot is front row right, where the heat blows out. I also prefer front row because I know I work harder being in front.
Regulars know to save that spot for me. If someone new takes it, the class erupts into apologies when I come, which tickles me.
OTOH, my cardio instructor asked me not to use the front row any more.She was afraid someone would get hurt trying to copy me. So sometimes instructors have valid input, too.1 -
I go to whatever empty spot is there when I walk in. I will move to a different spot if my view is blocked I'm fairly new to Zumba class, so I like to see the instructor's feet so I can attempt to know what I am doing. LOL
It's petty and they're acting entitled. There's enough room in the front row for more than one person.
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Lol if I see someone on the treadmill that I prefer at the gym I internally get highly annoyed.3
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I disagree with the idea that women are more prone to bad Karen-like behaviour than men. I’ve got a lot of years on me and have seen bad behaviour in both men and women.
I believe it’s a lack of manners, and rudeness that shows up. Teach children to be considerate and they’ll grow up as considerate adults if you’re lucky.0 -
I rarely get annoyed, but ocassionally there will be members who try to stay in the studio on the floor doing floor exercises or their own individual exercising WHILE I'm about to start class or come in during class (people are allowed since we do have the smaller dumbbells and bars in the studio) and try to workout. They can obviously see a class is going on, but will scurry into a corner. But in my class we use the walls (to lean on for isolation kicks) and move on the floor while kicking and with a crowded floor, they take up space to move freely. It's a pain to tell them they have to leave while I'm on the mic.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 1 -
Yeah this has happened at my gym in the group fitness classes. I don't understand it. To me it's not a big deal but these women act like their name is engraved on that spot!0
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I used to do water fitness as a substitute and people that do water fitness are ADAMANT about their spots. Likely because half the time they really aren't even paying attention to the workout but gabbing up a storm the person next to them.fitnessgal1968 wrote: »Yeah this has happened at my gym in the group fitness classes. I don't understand it. To me it's not a big deal but these women act like their name is engraved on that spot!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I used to do water fitness as a substitute and people that do water fitness are ADAMANT about their spots. Likely because half the time they really aren't even paying attention to the workout but gabbing up a storm the person next to them.fitnessgal1968 wrote: »Yeah this has happened at my gym in the group fitness classes. I don't understand it. To me it's not a big deal but these women act like their name is engraved on that spot!
My trainer teaches some of the aquafit classes at our gym.
While training, I carelessly mentioned something about the Gossip Corner, and she just about lost it laughing. She knew instantly what I was talking about.
🤦🏻♀️ need to watch for tongue slippage. Bad habit.
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I do water aerobics. I get there early, straight to the gossip corner. When class is about to start, I move away fast! I'm there for exercise, not gossip-- that's just a fun extra. Lol0
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I'd do classes and have to repeat the exercises instruction like 3 times because only a few would start doing it, while the others are still doing the previous exercise and talking.Corina1143 wrote: »I do water aerobics. I get there early, straight to the gossip corner. When class is about to start, I move away fast! I'm there for exercise, not gossip-- that's just a fun extra. Lol
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 0 -
I used to do water fitness as a substitute and people that do water fitness are ADAMANT about their spots. Likely because half the time they really aren't even paying attention to the workout but gabbing up a storm the person next to them.fitnessgal1968 wrote: »Yeah this has happened at my gym in the group fitness classes. I don't understand it. To me it's not a big deal but these women act like their name is engraved on that spot!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
🤣🤣🤣0 -
Is this what I have to look forward to??? I'm getting certified for Group Fitness Training. I paid my tuition and had my Orientation class today.3
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fitnessgal1968 wrote: »Is this what I have to look forward to??? I'm getting certified for Group Fitness Training. I paid my tuition and had my Orientation class today.
1.) aquafit: gossip corner
People who can’t hear you
Complaints about playlist
Complaints you’re too fast, too slow, too hard, too easy
Looooots of Dad jokes if you’ve got male
Participants (hey, it tends towards an old group)
2.) cardio: people who come late and spend 10 minutes gathering and arranging equipment
People who start putting up equipment 20 minutes early and disrupt the whole class while doing it
People who think cooldown is an invitation to start talking to their friends ad talk over you
People who start out with too-heavy weights, can’t finish a set and either stop and stare pitifully or angrily or out them down and cross their arms
People who throw down weights and plates like they’re hot potatoes at the end of a set
Pissing, moaning, bellyaching
That there will always be someone(s) who think the class is too easy and go off on a tangent and their own thing
All classes. People who register, take up a space and don’t show up. People who don’t register and you don’t get credit for it.
People who don’t wipe their equipment. Put it back in the wrong spot. Don’t put it back at all. Expect you to put it back. Want to stand around and talk 30 minutes after class.
*not an instructor, nor would I ever want to be.3 -
I don't know, I think any job is like that. People are annoying, full stop.3
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Depends on your classes. I instruct kickboxing and ocassionally I'll sub in for like a sculpt class or bootcamp. But the majority of attendees of group fitness classes are classically bad in form and unfortunately you can't go and correct everyone. You can only cue them and hope they do it right.fitnessgal1968 wrote: »Is this what I have to look forward to??? I'm getting certified for Group Fitness Training. I paid my tuition and had my Orientation class today.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Lol ALL OF THIS!!!! And of course AFTER class you'll have the ocassional attendee wanting to take up 5-10 minutes of your time telling you how they been doing, their achievements and their family.springlering62 wrote: »fitnessgal1968 wrote: »Is this what I have to look forward to??? I'm getting certified for Group Fitness Training. I paid my tuition and had my Orientation class today.
1.) aquafit: gossip corner
People who can’t hear you
Complaints about playlist
Complaints you’re too fast, too slow, too hard, too easy
Looooots of Dad jokes if you’ve got male
Participants (hey, it tends towards an old group)
2.) cardio: people who come late and spend 10 minutes gathering and arranging equipment
People who start putting up equipment 20 minutes early and disrupt the whole class while doing it
People who think cooldown is an invitation to start talking to their friends ad talk over you
People who start out with too-heavy weights, can’t finish a set and either stop and stare pitifully or angrily or out them down and cross their arms
People who throw down weights and plates like they’re hot potatoes at the end of a set
Pissing, moaning, bellyaching
That there will always be someone(s) who think the class is too easy and go off on a tangent and their own thing
All classes. People who register, take up a space and don’t show up. People who don’t register and you don’t get credit for it.
People who don’t wipe their equipment. Put it back in the wrong spot. Don’t put it back at all. Expect you to put it back. Want to stand around and talk 30 minutes after class.
*not an instructor, nor would I ever want to be.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I don’t have any particular insight about this but do want to say that I appreciate the feminist voices present in this discussion and, related to that, consideration of larger context when trying to understand individual behaviour and group dynamics (as opposed to, group X is culturally such-and-such a way).
For myself, I’ve never had an issue with other students. I have disliked classes with instructors who don’t give explicit instructions about what to do but simply say, “Watch me and do what I do.” I also have one eye that’s basically useless, so I do need to position myself so my good eye can see what’s going on.
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