Low fat low carb diet

Low fat low carb is going to be high protein by definition.

Given that, you may find this thread helpful:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

It links to a spreadsheet that lists many, many foods in order by most protein for fewest calories. Because it emphasizes protein, the things high on the list will be relatively lower in carbs or fats or both. If you can find some foods that you like in the spreadsheet, that may give you some ideas about things to eat.

You didn't bring it up, but just for completeness I'll say that alcohol is neither fat nor carb . . . but it also tends to increase triglyceride levels, IMU, so it would be best to avoid/minimize that, too.

Did that recommendation come from a doctor or a registered dietician? Doctors receive no more than 20 hours of training in nutrition unless they pursue additional training outside of their MD training. Most people assume that doctors know what they are talking about when it comes to nutrition, but they typically don't. You don't need a low-carb/low-fat diet to lower triglycerides. In fact, they can cause more harm than good. As a certified nutrition coach, I strongly recommend you seek out a registered dietitian to help you create a nutrition plan.

rileysowner wrote: »

Going Keto dropped my Triglycerides go down from 2.25 mmol/L to .79 mmol/L. I am not low-fat at all.

No need for something that drastic. Just eating less refined sugars and quick carbs should be enough.

neanderthin wrote: »

yirara wrote: »

rileysowner wrote: »

Going Keto dropped my Triglycerides go down from 2.25 mmol/L to .79 mmol/L. I am not low-fat at all.

No need for something that drastic. Just eating less refined sugars and quick carbs should be enough.

It might come as a shock but some people don't feel the ketogenic diet is drastic, I know, crazy right! Most people using the ketogenic diet as a lifestyle like rileysowner and myself do it for multiple health reasons and don't do it to lower trigs, that just what happens by default and it does that in spades, which can't be said about just eating less refined sugars and quick carbs and there's nuance that needs to be addressed because it's mostly the deficit that facilitates that. You maintain that diet where your eating less refined sugars and quick carbs but still conforming to the status quo where the average person is consuming 50-60 % of their diet in carbs and still consuming bread, pasta, cereal grains, oatmeal and some desserts won't be dropping trigs very much or at all or reducing inflammatory markers in general and yes there are outliers that will.

I'm explicitly not arguing that keto is a bad choice here. (I don't think it is bad.)

But I don't think the bolded is "outlier" territory. I'm far from the only person here who's reported dropping triglycerides dramatically while "still consuming pasta, cereal grains, oatmeal and some desserts".

My triglycerides went from a peak of over 400 (mg/dL) to consistently well within the normal range (73.3 at last test). In the first months of weight loss, as I got into low-overweight BMI territory, it hit 126 (normal range) and kept dropping. That was eating around the default MFP percents, including 40-50% carbs.

It reached 70s/80s as I approached goal weight, and has been around that zone for 8 years, after previous decades of being high. (From my lab, the normal range is 0 to 149, as context. I know different countries/labs use different measures/ranges.) Perhaps you prefer lower; I'm happy with this, as is my medical team.

I think eating foods (vs. food products) is going to be helpful for many people; but I think the need to cut carbs extremely is a thing that will apply for some people, not for others, probably depending on factors like the genetics of familial hypercholesterolemia. If it's necessary, it's necessary. And sure, people can try it and see how well it works for them or fits them - good experiment.

(Note, since there was a reaction to "drastic" in a PP. I'm not saying the keto way of eating is "extreme". I'm saying that keto involves cutting carbs extremely deeply vs. the fairly mainstream macro mix that's in the MFP default. I think the PP may've intended "drastic" in that same way, but not sure.)

I'm also not saying that what worked for me will work for everyone. That's nearly always a silly assertion. It won't work for everyone. But it can work, and it's not outlier-distant from average to have that experience.

ETA: By the way, @BrandiRaike, the advice in a post(s) above to see a registered dietitian (RD)was better advice than I gave you in my initial post on this thread. Doctors are not nutrition experts; registered dietitians focus on nutrition. I don't know where you are, but in the US, a doctor can refer a person to an RD, but there are also sometimes RD consults available through pharmacies, grocery chains, gyms, universities, and more, at moderate to no cost. In the US, make sure the person is an RD, not just a "nutritionist". In some states, literally anyone can call themselves a "nutritionist".

neanderthin wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

neanderthin wrote: »

yirara wrote: »

rileysowner wrote: »

Going Keto dropped my Triglycerides go down from 2.25 mmol/L to .79 mmol/L. I am not low-fat at all.

No need for something that drastic. Just eating less refined sugars and quick carbs should be enough.

It might come as a shock but some people don't feel the ketogenic diet is drastic, I know, crazy right! Most people using the ketogenic diet as a lifestyle like rileysowner and myself do it for multiple health reasons and don't do it to lower trigs, that just what happens by default and it does that in spades, which can't be said about just eating less refined sugars and quick carbs and there's nuance that needs to be addressed because it's mostly the deficit that facilitates that. You maintain that diet where your eating less refined sugars and quick carbs but still conforming to the status quo where the average person is consuming 50-60 % of their diet in carbs and still consuming bread, pasta, cereal grains, oatmeal and some desserts won't be dropping trigs very much or at all or reducing inflammatory markers in general and yes there are outliers that will.

I'm explicitly not arguing that keto is a bad choice here. (I don't think it is bad.)

But I don't think the bolded is "outlier" territory. I'm far from the only person here who's reported dropping triglycerides dramatically while "still consuming pasta, cereal grains, oatmeal and some desserts".

My triglycerides went from a peak of over 400 (mg/dL) to consistently well within the normal range (73.3 at last test). In the first months of weight loss, as I got into low-overweight BMI territory, it hit 126 (normal range) and kept dropping. That was eating around the default MFP percents, including 40-50% carbs.

It reached 70s/80s as I approached goal weight, and has been around that zone for 8 years, after previous decades of being high. (From my lab, the normal range is 0 to 149, as context. I know different countries/labs use different measures/ranges.) Perhaps you prefer lower; I'm happy with this, as is my medical team.

I think eating foods (vs. food products) is going to be helpful for many people; but I think the need to cut carbs extremely is a thing that will apply for some people, not for others, probably depending on factors like the genetics of familial hypercholesterolemia. If it's necessary, it's necessary. And sure, people can try it and see how well it works for them or fits them - good experiment.

(Note, since there was a reaction to "drastic" in a PP. I'm not saying the keto way of eating is "extreme". I'm saying that keto involves cutting carbs extremely deeply vs. the fairly mainstream macro mix that's in the MFP default. I think the PP may've intended "drastic" in that same way, but not sure.)

I'm also not saying that what worked for me will work for everyone. That's nearly always a silly assertion. It won't work for everyone. But it can work, and it's not outlier-distant from average to have that experience.

ETA: By the way, @BrandiRaike, the advice in a post(s) above to see a registered dietitian (RD)was better advice than I gave you in my initial post on this thread. Doctors are not nutrition experts; registered dietitians focus on nutrition. I don't know where you are, but in the US, a doctor can refer a person to an RD, but there are also sometimes RD consults available through pharmacies, grocery chains, gyms, universities, and more, at moderate to no cost. In the US, make sure the person is an RD, not just a "nutritionist". In some states, literally anyone can call themselves a "nutritionist".

What lifestyle and diet had your triglycerides @ 400 (mg/dl) if you don't mind me asking.

I'm not sure what "lifestyle" means to you here. I was athletically active, similar to now - had been for a dozen years - while staying overweight/obese. I ate the same range of foods then I eat now, probably majority whole foods, leaning health-food-ish, long term ovo-lacto vegetarian. The portion sizes were bigger, the proportions and frequencies of some foods were different.

From my perspective, the long view is that I ate mostly healthy things but way too much, got fat, eventually obese; and my cholesterol/triglycerides were climbing alongside that gain. I got athletically active, and they kept climbing or stayed high. Then I lost weight, still eating mostly healthy foods, and cholesterol/triglycerides normalized. They've stayed normal in maintenance.

There's quite a bit, no actually a lot that show trig reductions among obese people consuming the standard American diet after 3, 6 and 12 months with modest reductions in trigs which correlate mostly to weight loss, and obviously when compared to low carb or keto they reduce trigs more so, simply because of the removal of all classes of sugars. Weight loss is the big one but when exercise and weight training especially is factored in, the effect is much much greater and again when that same person goes from the standard american diet to one that is whole foods trigs are reduced even further, which is basically the description of a lifestyle intervention. I have a feeling you fall under that description. Your reduction is no where near normal, not even close and I would definitely call that reduction an outlier, based on what I know and what the literature says. Very low trigs like you have generally correlate to elevated or higher HDL and lower C-reactive protein (inflammatory marker), which only happens with a lifestyle that could be described as an outlier which is pretty pathetic really but generally true of the general population.

For me, weight loss was the big one. That's part of my point here. Other than that, there was no "lifestyle intervention" that coincided with the cholesterol/triglycerides drop.

I didn't add a meaningful amount of new exercise. I'd long lifted a little (usually offseason), was a bit more consistent about that during the actual loss but not really gung ho, returned to my old ways in maintenance. I kept doing the same cardio (so called) I'd been doing for a dozen years throughout.

I didn't go from SAD to a whole foods diet. My eating style didn't change by lots, except as needed to be calorie appropriate and hit minimum protein/fats on the lower calories.

I do have high HDL (now). When I was obese, it was usually borderline low to low.

As far as I can recall, I've never been tested for CRP.

My week by week averages now seem to be around 40-60% carbs, 24-34% fat, 22-25% protein - approximately. I don't use percent goals, I use gram minimums, 50g fats, 100g protein. I usually exceed protein by up to 20%, often barely reach the fats minimum.

My reference with the part you bolded doesn't take those factors into account and for the most part it will be the weight loss that reduces triglycerides, which like I said is fairly modest. Of course there's a spectrum of weight loss that will effect those numbers, but I'm talking again about the vast majority of obese individuals looking to lose weight. The vast majority of Americans that are obese will generally not change their diet very much and just reduce calories and can have a hard time sticking with any additional lifestyle changes like doing exercise. So, in the context where people that have lost weight and still consume the standard american diet where they're still consuming the usual suspects and maintaining their weight with basically the same diet that created their excess weight, their triglycerides will generally not be reduced further, of course many encounter weight regain and could and probably will be increasing their triglycerides.

We got to this point when someone mentioned keto, then Yirara said "Just eating less refined sugars and quick carbs should be enough." and you replied "You maintain that diet where your eating less refined sugars and quick carbs but still conforming to the status quo where the average person is consuming 50-60 % of their diet in carbs and still consuming bread, pasta, cereal grains, oatmeal and some desserts won't be dropping trigs very much or at all or reducing inflammatory markers in general and yes there are outliers that will."

The SAD wasn't mentioned. UPFs weren't mentioned. I commented that I was eating 40-50% carbs and still consuming bread, pasta, cereal grains, oatmeal and some desserts, and my triglycerides had dropped meaningfully and stayed fine. That seems to be in line with Yirara's statement, and counter to yours.

Your initial post on this thread, "Reduce those (refined carbs and sugars) and consume more whole foods which will by default lower triglycerides", seemed reasonable to me, at least if the context includes weight loss.

From reading other posts here over the years, it seems like I've seen other instances where people had fairly big triglycerides reductions which appeared to be primarily triggered by weight loss, without necessarily going low carb/keto. I don't think I'm unusual in that.

I suspect that if we're talking about that 40-60% carb macro mix and predominantly a SAD/UPF way of eating, that may be hard to stick with long term from a satiety perspective, though I don't know because I've never tried. Of course if weight loss brought triglycerides down, regain is likely to raise them again.

Similarly, I don't know whether my triglycerides would've dropped if I'd eaten the same macro mix as I have, but SAD/UPF food choices, while losing weight. I wouldn't do that, because to me that would be really yucky eating.

"50-60 % of their diet in carbs and still consuming bread, pasta, cereal grains, oatmeal and some desserts" isn't synonymous with SAD, doesn't inherently imply high UPF intake, doesn't necessarily involve lots of quick carbs/sugars. It's kind of the mainstream recommended nutritional mix and idea of moderating treats, seems like.

From other threads, I think you may not be a fan of that macro mix. I didn't intentionally target that mix, just targeted the protein & fats minimums, ate a bunch of veggies/fruits in a mixed ovo-lacto veg diet, and ended up with that high a carb percent. I think that's OK, but not sacred, universal, or essential. Different macro mixes will work for different people, IMO.

neanderthin wrote: »

Generally most Health authoritative & Universities site about 15-20% reduction in triglycerides with around a 10% reduction in weight loss and why I asked what diet and lifestyle you were on at the time, obviously your numbers are considerable lower than that considering your lifestyle hadn't changed much as well. As far as debating exercise, whole food, UPF we can always find an n:1 to make a point to whatever arguments a person finds themselves biased towards, so no point doing that, so I'll leave it there. I suspect most will agree that exercise, eating more whole foods which by default remove some UPF's is healthier and is reflected in health markers, including the lowering of triglycerides regardless of weight loss. I remember your trigs being low with above average HDL, which is always a good sign of decent health.

One thing that jumps out: I lost something more like 30% of my body weight. Also, the 400+ triglycerides were the peak. 180s-190s was more typical long term.

To try to be back on topic: OP, if you have excess body weight, losing it would be a good intervention. Improving the quality of your nutrition may be helpful, and consulting a dietitian would be ideal to work on that. Exercise may or may not have a direct effect, but it does help some people manage the effects of their carb intake. (Exercise doesn't need to be some crazy-extreme thing. A short moderate-pace walk can be meaningful, especially if timed after eating.)

Speaking personally, I find it helpful to eat large amounts of veggies/fruits. They're filling, and I'd speculate that the phytonutrients and diverse fiber types may help improve some health markers as well. Others will disagree, and there may be some individual variation in physiological response to different overall eating patterns.

For sure, a sustainable calorie-appropriate eating pattern - no matter what it may be - is a key factor in long term body weight management, and a healthy weight has a major impact on overall health.

rileysowner wrote: »

yirara wrote: »

rileysowner wrote: »

Going Keto dropped my Triglycerides go down from 2.25 mmol/L to .79 mmol/L. I am not low-fat at all.

No need for something that drastic. Just eating less refined sugars and quick carbs should be enough.

I don't actually find Keto drastic. Seeing as the OP is looking to do low fat/low carb, which I consider much more drastic, I don't quite get your comments point.

Yeah, the low fat in conjunction with a keto diet is very concerning. It's not really understood from the original post what the low carb diet consists of. A ketogenic diet relies on ketones from fat oxidation and when there's not enough fat then the protein content of the diet will inhibit ketone production, basically a description of protein poisoning, sometimes referred to as rabbit starvation. Ketones are the alternative fuel for the body especially the brain and muscles which it can get from either dietary fat or body fat but it still can put a lot of strain on the liver and the body ends up using existing stored protein as in muscle to make new glucose instead, the body needs and will try and make energy on demand for such a purpose.

Ketone production is the fail safe where starvation is imminent or fasting but eating most daily calories in protein pretty much puts the kibosh on that. A diet like this can lead to nutrient imbalance and organ damage, dehydration, electrolyte imbalances and interfere with blood glucose balance and overall metabolic health. I'm on a 4:1 ratio ketogenic diet or the least restrictive ketogenic diet which contains the most protein at around 30% of caloric intake with around 70% fat. it's basically foolish and dangerous to reduce fat and then try to consume a ketogenic diet, and actually that person wouldn't be in ketosis anyway. Won't even go into vitamin, antioxidants and mineral deficiencies which are important for your immune system, vision, bone health etc. Yeah, not the best advice and it appears it was medical advice from their Doctor in regards to trigs, which is kind of scary.

Lean meats and vegetables are you go to. Nobody on this green earth actually means no vegies when they say low-carb. Broccoli and celery are almost totally carb but I'd never listen to someone saying cut them out.

Low-Carb traditionally means low-processed-carbs.

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

DanaDark wrote: »

Lean meats and vegetables are you go to. Nobody on this green earth actually means no vegies when they say low-carb. Broccoli and celery are almost totally carb but I'd never listen to someone saying cut them out.

Low-Carb traditionally means low-processed-carbs.

There's a whole movement nowadays within the low carb community that believes vegetables... all vegetables... are what's making us sick and believe you can treat all manners of ailments through a meat only (carnivore) diet. So, honestly, it's a thing.

It's definitively a movement and it looks like the big proponents of this way of eating are Doctors. I've been watching this space for 3 or 4 years and I'm still waiting for the shoe to drop but so far it hasn't. The reason it hasn't imo from an observational point of view is that people can actually see changes, benefits, life altering events in a very short period of time, days for some.

One of the most common characteristic of these people that have founds success from carnivore was how they finally ended up trying carnivore, which was basically through their own frustration and attempting to find some answers on their own, and eventually people that are truly metabolically sick will eventually be lead to a lower carb lifestyle and their feeds generally get populated with similar info, and carnivore is generally one of those.

It's a little more believable than someone saying if you eat this you'll live longer, like the MED diet compared to removing all plant material and your hair stops falling out, your psoriasis and acne clears up, gut issues, like IBS reduce or totally go away, you go off your diabetes and blood pressure medication, are never hungry and lose weight. I have to admit, it's been very interesting so far, some of these Doctors have been carnivore for 5 and 10 years, some longer with their patients following both a low carb/ketogenic diet and some a carnivore. Basically their own n:1 science experiment.

See. It's a real thing. Mind you I'm not saying it's good, bad, or indifferent.

For me I have found Lo carb & high protein to be an effective solution to my challenges I use MyFitnessPal to track my macros & keep an eye on my calorie intake I focus on the following
Carbs - 20-30% intake
Protien - 30% intake 1.5-2.0 grams per kg of ideal body weight
Balance is healthy fats, I avoid seed oils except olive oil & coconut oil
I used keto to reduce my body weight from 140kgs to 82kgs with little or no exercise
Let me know if you’d like access to my food diary I post it every day

dennis3031 wrote: »

For me I have found Lo carb & high protein to be an effective solution to my challenges I use MyFitnessPal to track my macros & keep an eye on my calorie intake I focus on the following
Carbs - 20-30% intake
Protien - 30% intake 1.5-2.0 grams per kg of ideal body weight
Balance is healthy fats, I avoid seed oils except olive oil & coconut oil
I used keto to reduce my body weight from 140kgs to 82kgs with little or no exercise
Let me know if you’d like access to my food diary I post it every day

Yeah your before and after in the lost 100 lb thread is truly inspiring, good job.