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Is it new that people expect the forum to read their minds?
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I appreciate all of you in this thread who have invested your time in helping others (myself included) so selflessly! I returned this summer after not looking at the message boards for several years and noticed all the things y'all have mentioned, which bum me out. Still finding good inspiration on here where I can, but you have to dig for it now.3
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The other thing, getting into nearly-pointless lengthy arguments about details . . . everyone finds different things fun. Sometimes I find that fun. To a fault. (Everyone's got faults, right?)
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'll argue when it serves me. I personally used to like the much more lively forums of old when there were hundreds of posts arguing against a point, but the one hold-out would still say, "Nope." If it devolved into gifs, even better, IMO.
I just can't see having that 10 page discussion over - say - someone who has five pounds to lose. I mean - some problems aren't really problems.
But yeah, other things are important to Me Too.2 -
👋🏻
Please add “how do I burn belly fat?”.
I’d like to line up a firing squad for the marketing genius who came up with that nauseating clickbait term.2 -
cmriverside wrote: »claireychn074 wrote: »
Yes and I’m not commenting on the rights or wrongs of commerce and its economics, but I suspect a lot of the people who grumbled weren’t on here then. I only joined when UA were the owners, and I liked the fact I got an UA voucher 😀 Which was also good marketing as it made me spend more in their shop.cmriverside wrote: »“How dare this profit-making company decide to make a profit by charging us.”
Well to be fair...in 2007 when I joined the owners at that time, the Lees, said that it would always be free and that there was never going to be a charge.
Then they sold it for $80 mill.
"...and the times, they are a changin'."
The other issue with the barcode scanner was it was still user populated and often wrong, it wasn’t the panacea to accurate logging many thought 🤷♂️
Sure.
There are free workarounds for most stuff...but, meh, I can't go around fixing everyone elses' inability to figure stuff out.
I'm in the habit of just linking good threads from the past, or from the Sticky threads. I have no idea why people get in to big discussions here in threads started by people who make one or two posts. ::shrug::
The other thing, getting into nearly-pointless lengthy arguments about details . . . everyone finds different things fun. Sometimes I find that fun. To a fault. (Everyone's got faults, right?)
I definitely find it fun when I've got the time. Honestly, I hope people here don't get the wrong idea and think I don't respect what they're saying because I go back and forth.... but honestly, if we live in a bubble where everyone just goes "oh, ok"... well, that would be a little boring. Mostly I spend the time to do this specifically because I respect them.
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cmriverside wrote: »Forums are dying.
If you mean "MFP Groups" I would strengthen that and say they are dead.
Though clear a few out of the thousands might have some activity.
They designed poorly and don't work easily. Nobody cares.
One sentence obscure posts in threads are what this app is designed to facilitate.
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Subtle telepathy has always interested me- whether it is possible- have we become subtly more psychic/sensitive to each other's thoughts/opinions collectively in the last decade- also lots of people have main character syndrome related issues- so does it cancel itself out if it is common? We're hyper-sensitive to ourselves- we feel as if we're being analysed/pre-empted, putting ourselves under a harsher lens maybe- or we're enmeshed in our own pathology/hysteria and need to explain ourselves to others a bit more. Sorry this is a bit off topic- just my thoughts0
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👋🏻
Can we also add “Anyone tried this Intermittent Fasting thing?”
I honestly think you guys are the glue holding this Community together… I see a ‘new’ question (actually asked a thousand times before) and have a little guess at who got the first reply out of @AnnPT77, @Springlering62, @cmriverside, or @ninerbuff (edit to add @mtatatoot, @yirara and so many more I recognise, you know who you are)!
I (still) read all your responses in the hope that the drip, drip, drip of your collective wisdom eventually seeps into my brain… I am sure I’m not the only one. We admire your staying power, so THANK YOU!3 -
Oh yeah, and “Can you please give me motivation?”.
I mentally grit my teeth when I read that one.3 -
The forum setup was "improved" in recent memory. My personal impression is that the number of people who make use of the forums decreased subsequent to that.
There is a chance that app improvements emphasizing videos, blogs and other features are partially responsible and offer people sufficient interactivity for their needs. But I have also noticed that the MFP app promo contents are not in full alignment with the forums. To me they seem to push the substantial losses in a few months narrative with nary a mention of maintenance track records.
That said, I can't opine too much on the app improvements these past 3+ years because I changed logging platforms in late 2020 after the free account "old data" prune took place. I understand that the pruning then un-happened but I had already moved to logging elsewhere and I now only use the app/website to click through to the forums
I credit MFP and the forums for a lot of my (so far) successful foray into weight management these past 10 years and I have been happy to participate--and hopefully to give back and help people find success.
That said I've noticed myself deleting without posting a lot of responses that I start writing. Especially when I find myself trying to express something more nuanced or complicated.
and, more often than in the past, I try to avoid jumping into the one liners from people who can't even be bothered to write out a question.3 -
@AnnPT77, @Springlering62, @cmriverside, @ninerbuff, @chris_in_cal, @sollyn23l2, @yirara, @SafariGalNYC, @history_grrrl --- just want to let you all know that I definitely do appreciate these forums! I usually don't post, because I don't have much advice in this department, but I love reading the insightful responses on these threads! Thank you!!!5
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Yes, the repeat questions . . . but if the OP doesn't know the answer, it's not a repeat to them, eh?
Some of the hit parade, from my perspective:
"How do I tone up without getting bulky?"
"I haven't lost weight this week. Could I have gained muscle from the 10k steps I just started doing?"
"I have to switch up my workouts because they're not burning calories anymore. Which workout will result in the quickest weight loss?"
"Are there any success stories from left-handed crane operators who live in Saskatoon Saskatchewan and work nights, who are low-carb vegans doing IF and HIIT? "
"No one here ever tells you about XXXXX", where XXXXX is a thing I personally have typed over, and over, and over . . . .
"It's so hard because YYYY", where YYYY is menopause, age, sabotaging friends/spouses who give food gifts, hypothyroidism, blah blah blah blah. (Everyone has their hard, folks, it's just different hard in each case. I understand people need help with those problems, and do try to give it. But sometimes it seems like a few people are so focused on the roadblocks that they're just looking for a reason to give up, because, y'know, it's hard?)
"XYZ detail of an MFP function has a bug or isn't exactly the way I think it would personally work best for me, so I'm gonna rage quit and you all should quit, too!"
"Exercise calories are overestimated, so don't eat back exercise calories."
"Moooootttiiiivaaaate mmeeeeee!"
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Again, I agree with a lot of what people said above.
I'll also add things I probably shouldn't say, i.e. some people:
* Don't have a great operational grasp of what other people do and don't know - they assume everyone knows what they do. (Most of us fall in that hole sometimes, I think. I used to run a computer-related help desk. Training staff to figure out and fill in the picture in the caller's head was a consistent training roadblock.)
* Know so little about the subject that they don't (can't) realize their question is not well-formulated. (Reading the BS in a lot of the blogosphere will get you to that spot, I think.)
* Don't really understand technology, so assume any black-box tech function is magically accurate (like the assumption that the scanner is an accurate pipeline to the manufacturers' most recent data, or that heart rate monitors are a totally reliable gauge of exercise calories).
. . . and more.
None of those things are character faults. None of them are intentional misinformation.
Those people maybe still need help, still deserve help. (Maybe some of my attitude is a holdover from help-desking?
) It's an uphill climb sometimes, though. I appreciate those around here who are better able to be concise than I am. I can type very fast, but I edit painfully slowly.
I used to be more brief, but then some people complain that there wasn't nuance or details. Can't please everyone. My advice is worth every penny people pay for it. 4 -
MamaBear5445 wrote: »@AnnPT77, @Springlering62, @cmriverside, @ninerbuff, @chris_in_cal, @sollyn23l2, @yirara, @SafariGalNYC, @history_grrrl --- just want to let you all know that I definitely do appreciate these forums! I usually don't post, because I don't have much advice in this department, but I love reading the insightful responses on these threads! Thank you!!!
That's very kind of you, @MamaBear5445! I've learned so much from fellow MFP-ers over the time I've been here, and gotten such huge quality of life benefits, I really do want to help others if I can. I know my way of communicating won't be for everyone, but thank you for saying that you've gotten something useful. :flowerforyou:2 -
Well said @AnnPT77
You forgot “need to lose 40 by my wedding day in two months?”
I swear I remember a post by a woman who needed to lose 10 pounds in a week so she’d look like her picture on a dating app for a first meetup.
Some posts are heartbreaking. Some, you know they’ve got the fire and you’ll see them back again. But too too many are people looking for a quick fix, the “secret” we’re holding out on them, or seem to have the idea that simply downloading the app and staring at their phone should create results, like the app store has given them some kind of digital Ozempic.
There was a post earlier this weekend from someone who joined and wanted someone to recommend a logging app. I was shouting at my phone: whaaaat TF?
You get out of this app what you put into it. 95% of people download, don’t bother to learn the most basic mechanics of it, and then bellyache that “it’s” not working for “them”.
Thanks for the kind words @MamaBear5445
I am eternally grateful to the users you mentioned and many others for pulling and pushing me to my own success.4 -
There is a certain "bless your heart" zone with some posts, I think, @Springerling62. Wanting to succeed, struggling to understand, not there yet, maybe not going to get there, which is unfortunate. I try, really I do. So do you. And others.
I wish everyone could succeed. Heck, I wish there was a hack, or magic, or something. But no.
The perplexing thing is that the basics really are pretty simple (not always easy!), but the marketers and blogosphere and whatnot have many people totally tied up in knots to the point of believing that it has to be complicated, needs arcane secret methods, always and necessarily involves suffering, etc.2 -
Yeah, it's pretty simple.
Eat less.
Move more.
Log ur foodz. Study and learn from your own personal data collection. It doesn't have to be perfect, just do it. This isn't college physics or medicine, but data helps.
Try a new vegetable every now and then, they're tasty.2 -
My favourite is Questions like" Does anyone here do keto or IF? " or suchlike that there are umpteen threads about so the answer is such an obvious yes.
( nothing for or against keto or IF just the absurdity of the question)3 -
cmriverside wrote: »Yeah, it's pretty simple.
Eat less.
Move more.
.
There’s a thread from a fairly new user claiming cowprkers keep telling them that, but it’s not “scientifically proven” or some such nonsense and they’re only saying it just to hurt them to the very core of their being.
Permission to violently roll eyes like a pinball machine.
I get that people are hurt and needy and want hand holding. That was me. But I figured out pretty quick that me and only me had to take me in hand to sort me out and improve me me me me.
It’s disheartening to see so many posts lately from people aren’t trying and are looking for any excuse to maintain the status quo of self pity. Maybe it’s like this every January/February, but this year it’s rubbing me raw.
I’d like to slap them upside the head and say “get over yourself!!!!” and do something positive!!!!
But that’d be trolling, I suppose.
In spite of the positivity I try to project here, I have to dig deep for it, because inside, I’m still a fat little dark hearted troll who likes to mess with people.
i. e. cinnamon, Ann. 😉
Anyway, a couple of decades of obesity left me far judgier than those I felt were judging me.3 -
Oh, for sure, @ springlering62
I just don't engage with 99% of the simpler questions...unless I'm just sitting here drinking coffee lookin' for something to do.
Which - let's face it - most of forums are just that. Time killers while we're waiting to do something else.
You weren't here prior to 2013, I don't think. It was the Wild West up in here with the crazy long threads with big arguments. The forum owners decided some of it was too harsh, (and that's the way half the world thinks these days. Hurt feelz.) I imagine it's always been that way though in the world. Some people think any little correction is harsh and the other half think, "C'mon, you can do this! Just do it!"
I'd rather fall on the side of, "Of course I can do this. I just need to work at it," rather than the, "If the world were nicer I could lose weight," side.
The banning and points system for Time Outs in the forums chased away a lot of smart posters who just didn't want to deal with the whole snowflake thing. I'm not sure that was all bad, though. Some of them were really mean. There's a balance, and it's not that easy to strike in forums.3 -
cmriverside wrote: »"If the world were nicer I could lose weight," .
Yes. This. You get a 🏅for expressing this.
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Sometimes people post hAngry, I'm convinced.
It IS sometimes hard to customize advice especially when people don't re engage
Actually this would be a fun test.
If a question is post 1 or 2 and poster signed up today, poster has to answer an "are you there and can you find your thread and respond to it" challenge before the thread should be engaged or even posted publicly!!!!🤯🤣😂🤣9 -
Just to play a moment of devil's advocate here, but a large percentage of posts in response to questions tend to be of the "well, duh, THIS is the ONLY way it works, get with the program" flavor. Some posters take the time to see an issue from all sides (looking at you, @annpt77) and a few do point out that their advice is what worked for them and that YMMV. But quite a few are either aggressive or imply (intentional or not) that their way is the only right way.2
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Sometimes people post hAngry, I'm convinced.
Hangry posting is my new favorite phrase.
My first foray into weight loss was 20 years ago with Myfooddairy.com. It was pretty much equivalent to MFP, but not app based. The calorie logging was great, but the biggest benefit for me was the forum. It was relatively small, so I felt like I got to know most of the people on there and we all wanted to help newcomers the way we had been helped. I miss that dynamic overall here on MFP (though the people posting on this thread have come the closest to creating that same feeling of support and engagement for me. A BIG thanks for that.).
I think confusing information is a lot more prolific and present with current technology vs what I dealt with 20 years ago. Atkins was the big thing then, but would say it was only in my face 10% of the week. Now I have a self created technosphere of data that puts weight loss content in my face 40-60% of the week. I have enough experience and research under my belt to spot the useless/potentially harmful stuff and filter it out, but I watch my kids struggle with all the information coming at them with seemingly all the same volume and validity.
So I guess I can sympathize with the people who are coming with confusion and "please just tell me what to do". Doesn't mean I don't have plenty of eye roll moments, but I also have moments of genuine sadness when I see someone give up.
I think the message I most want to convey when I respond to some of those posts is "You're not alone". and that's what I think I'm often looking to "hear" when I go on the forum. That, and a bit of "at least I'm not as messed up as this other poster" with a smidge of "I can't believe what people will believe".
So thank you again for those who answer the same question for the millionth time and share your success and failure stories.4 -
What the **kitten** is going on today?
Complete original post with the well formed personalized questions to be answered by your forum AI?🤷♂️😵💫🤯
--How to stay on a calorie deficit?
--How much (sic) calories do I need to eat in my day?
Seriously?
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Yeah, I feel like that a lot of the time here.
...really, anywhere on the internet these days. It's just one big troll. You watch any YouTube? The ads are 99% AI and/or stolen video and the ones that aren't are either doomsday prophesies, solar panel (or other) scams, or scary errors in your body and how to get rid of them by drinking this, "one special drink at bedtime."
But hurry, "It's sweeping the world and the government is about to ban it."2 -
cmriverside wrote: »Yeah, I feel like that a lot of the time here.
...really, anywhere on the internet these days. It's just one big troll. You watch any YouTube? The ads are 99% AI and/or stolen video and the ones that aren't are either doomsday prophesies, solar panel (or other) scams, or scary errors in your body and how to get rid of them by drinking this, "one special drink at bedtime."
But hurry, "It's sweeping the world and the government is about to ban it."
Well our government isn’t. They couldn’t organise a pee up in a brewery. I’m always impressed that conspiracy theorists think the government is hiding lots of stuff 🤣5 -
cmriverside wrote: »Oh, for sure, @ springlering62
I just don't engage with 99% of the simpler questions...unless I'm just sitting here drinking coffee lookin' for something to do.
Which - let's face it - most of forums are just that. Time killers while we're waiting to do something else.
You weren't here prior to 2013, I don't think. It was the Wild West up in here with the crazy long threads with big arguments. The forum owners decided some of it was too harsh, (and that's the way half the world thinks these days. Hurt feelz.) I imagine it's always been that way though in the world. Some people think any little correction is harsh and the other half think, "C'mon, you can do this! Just do it!"
I'd rather fall on the side of, "Of course I can do this. I just need to work at it," rather than the, "If the world were nicer I could lose weight," side.
The banning and points system for Time Outs in the forums chased away a lot of smart posters who just didn't want to deal with the whole snowflake thing. I'm not sure that was all bad, though. Some of them were really mean. There's a balance, and it's not that easy to strike in forums.
I think there used to be a real Mean Girl tone around here, but the crackdown was also too harsh and chased away a lot of smart posters. I do like the nicer tone, but miss the days when the forums were more robust. It's much harder to kill time here nowadays.
Fortunately, I have found a composting group on Facebook
(But that's not the same. I don't recognize posters from thread to thread, and it has less of a community feel.)3 -
Mean PERSON tone.
:flowerforyou:1 -
What the **kitten** is going on today?
Complete original post with the well formed personalized questions to be answered by your forum AI?🤷♂️😵💫🤯
--How to stay on a calorie deficit?
--How much (sic) calories do I need to eat in my day?
Seriously?
Speaking not to PAV personally here, but to the line of conversation this started.
I wasn't going to say it. I typed it into my PP, then took it out. I wasn't going to say it.
Preface: Humans aren't very good at conspiracies. Yes, they can be good at trolling. But Occam's razor is still a consideration. Or Hanlon's razor, more specifically. (And AI bots can express themselves semi-well, from what I've seen.)
So, the thing I took out: Unfortunately, some people - bless their hearts, and I mean that sincerely - are not highly functional intellectually. Lower reading comprehension. Arithmetic not doable or understandable. Not good at writing, spelling, grammar, syntax. And so forth.
I grew up in a rural poverty area with a sub-par school system (back in the waaay pre-internet era, 1960s-70s). I met some of these people, knew some well from school and church. They can be very wonderful people in various ways. But mental acuity is not their wheelhouse. Things are worse for people like that in the internet era than things were back then, because reading comprehension and writing clarity are increasingly important, not to mention needing some mild understanding of using the technology. Those approaching my age also grew up at a time when learning disabilities weren't recognized and remediated (at least not in my school system).
On top of that, this is an international site. Some people don't have English as their first language, maybe don't quite have English much at all.
Just my opinion: They still need help, still deserve help. It may not seem like giving someone the benefit of the doubt to suspect they're struggling intellectually in some way, but in contrast to routinely assuming that they're trolling, it maybe is.
Hanlon's razor. Or Occam's.
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Language challenges, I believe, will become a diminishing issue with AI translation.
The other changes that are coming down the pike in terms of employment, research, and less benign uses of AI, these ones, I'm afraid, are sweeping us towards "interesting" times.0 -
What the **kitten** is going on today?
Complete original post with the well formed personalized questions to be answered by your forum AI?🤷♂️😵💫🤯
--How to stay on a calorie deficit?
--How much (sic) calories do I need to eat in my day?
Seriously?
Speaking not to PAV personally here, but to the line of conversation this started.
I wasn't going to say it. I typed it into my PP, then took it out. I wasn't going to say it.
Preface: Humans aren't very good at conspiracies. Yes, they can be good at trolling. But Occam's razor is still a consideration. Or Hanlon's razor, more specifically. (And AI bots can express themselves semi-well, from what I've seen.)
So, the thing I took out: Unfortunately, some people - bless their hearts, and I mean that sincerely - are not highly functional intellectually. Lower reading comprehension. Arithmetic not doable or understandable. Not good at writing, spelling, grammar, syntax. And so forth.
I grew up in a rural poverty area with a sub-par school system (back in the waaay pre-internet era, 1960s-70s). I met some of these people, knew some well from school and church. They can be very wonderful people in various ways. But mental acuity is not their wheelhouse. Things are worse for people like that in the internet era than things were back then, because reading comprehension and writing clarity are increasingly important, not to mention needing some mild understanding of using the technology. Those approaching my age also grew up at a time when learning disabilities weren't recognized and remediated (at least not in my school system).
On top of that, this is an international site. Some people don't have English as their first language, maybe don't quite have English much at all.
Just my opinion: They still need help, still deserve help. It may not seem like giving someone the benefit of the doubt to suspect they're struggling intellectually in some way, but in contrast to routinely assuming that they're trolling, it maybe is.
Hanlon's razor. Or Occam's.
[CHN frantically goes to Google Hanlon’s razor as never heard of it 🤣]
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