Counting calories so insane !
serpilchiba336
Posts: 14 Member
I am giving this thing a try but I think it triggers my anxiety more.I feel like I am pressuring my self to eat less and that is causing me to have more stress.I want to practice intuitive eating.
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Replies
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Is something a poison or is it medicine?
The right amount can be medicine.
The wrong amount can be poison.
The same mechanism that makes direct calorie counting an effective way to lose weight: i.e. that you account for your energy inflows and outflows by keeping a ledger of your energy balance. That same mechanism can easily turn into poison if it is unsuitable for your current life situation
This will be even more likely to happen if you overdo things. *Kittens*, it might even happen if you DON'T overdo things.
Calorie counting--even weight loss-- neither is *always* the answer.
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Hopefully you find a system that works for you.
I don't know what intuitive eating means, but I would think having more information about what you're currently eating, about what got you to now, and wanting to make change, would be helpful. I would encourage you to track for a while so you know what you're taking in, and it may shine several lights on places you could easily make reductions.
You may not need to count calories forever, but it's a good tool for getting from A to B. It also gets easier the longer you do so. Filling out a day for myself takes just a couple of minutes, since much of it is cut and paste and using saved meals.6 -
Yeah, there is a definite learning curve.
I like tracking calories but when I had a lot of weight to lose it was pretty intimidating.
Just go a day at a time. If you feel up to logging, do it. If not, take a break from it. You can jump in and out as you like. :flowerforyou:
Sometimes life is stressful enough without trying to learn something new so there's always that, but this tool is pretty easy and it's super helpful.8 -
Do you somehow keep track of the money that comes in and goes out or do you just spend intuitively and it somehow works out? I'm not saying you will fail, but maybe having a look at your bank account causes less of a stress to you than looking at your diet, and there might be a way of learning. You could simply just start tracking your food without restricting calories just to get an idea of how much you really eat. And once you know that go from there, try to eat less, or continue tracking.9
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Counting keeps you accountable for what you eat and drink. Intuitive eating works if you don’t consume many calories from liquids and highly processed foods as those don’t satiate well so you tend to over consume those and they can be highly caloric.3
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Being 90 pounds overweight for two decades so insane.
Choose your insanity.
I did. It wasn’t so terrible.9 -
Once you get going it gets easier..
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It gets easier the more you log as your foods come up right away. You need to do what works for you. This has worked for me. When I stop logging I gain weight. My brain says oh that is 4 ounces when it is 8 or I am still hungry or I deserve that. I can still have tasty food, just not pig out. Do I like logging? Nooooo. Not at all. But I LOVE being a size 6 down from a size 14 and love being able to move and not be all achy.10
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First let's make sure you set a reasonable weekly weight loss goal. Is your rate of loss in line with this chart?
Going for 2 pounds per week without having the excess weight to support that rate of loss would definitely be stressful.
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Eating intuitively requires a certain level of self-awareness and emotional maturity. I'm not sure that I could use that technique to maintain my weight, and I know that I couldn't use it to lose my weight. If I had that kind of discipline, I wouldn't be here. But it's been my experience that anything worth having (education, career, parenthood, etc.) requires a measure of discomfort along the way; So why would reaching my health goals be any different?
If this weight-loss journey is causing your anxiety to blow up, maybe you need to talk about it with your therapist or your doctor. An appointment with a dietician would probably be helpfull too. Losing weight is a messy combination of the mental and the physical and the more tools you have in your toolbox, the easier the journey will be. Also, the more you use the app, the easier it will become. But please don't fantasize that it won't require any work at all.9 -
Take calorie counting lightly, it is informative but doesn't tell all that we need to know. The greater purpose of tracking is to become aware of what we eat and what it does to us. It's tedious in the beginning and it's okay if you miss some things. But it gets much easier after you build up your list of foods you commonly eat.
You can eat "intuitively" but you have to build your intuition of good eating. Almost all of us have been programmed to bad eating habits. Focus on eating healthy foods "weight loss foods". I have found that cutting out processed foods and adding as much whole plant foods works wonders. Once you are sticking to a healthy diet that works for your goals you can eat intuitively. Tracking may still help if you find yourself straying. : 5 -
Intuitive eating is basically eating to satiety and where your not gaining weight. Whole foods helps this situation a lot as does the type of carbs your consuming. You want whole grains and legumes to displace any refined grains for the most part, cut back as much as you can on any sugary foods and sugary liquids and that includes fruit juices. Satiety is basically gut and brain hormonal signaling, and very easily disrupted when your carb allotment is comprised of mostly of the refined and sugary foods, and why I suggest you change that, it may work, it works for many. Low carb and ketogenic diets are the go to for intuitive eating and many that are successful don't count calories, myself included.3
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If you don't like calorie counting, don't do it. If you want to lose weight, but don't want to calorie count, use another method. You can use a structured meal plan that tells you how what to eat in what quantities, skip one meal daily but don't increase other meals, drop out or reduce frequency of foods you know are calorie dense (fried foods, snack-y foods, sugary foods, etc.), and more.
I'm old enough to remember when calorie counting wasn't a practical method, but people managed to lose weight anyway. Those methods still work.
For a person who tends to be overweight, just trying to be free-form "intuitive" from the start doesn't seem likely to work, to me. That's not saying that person can't get there. The closest I've seen to a method for intuitive eating from day 1 is to eat very slowly (put down the fork/spoon between bites, chew and savor slowly, sip water, etc.), then stop eating when reaching just the "not hungry any more" stage (not full!).
Best wishes!3 -
Hi, there are lots of resources on intuitive eating and it's also covered in the Ten Percent Happier podcast which might provide an overview. I would love to do that, but I'm not there yet!
-You don't say what your goals are? Sometimes anxiety can come from realising what we are putting into our body, yet there are no good foods or bad foods. There are certainly some which have less to offer nutritionally than others of course! Have you looked on a calculator to get a rough idea of how many calories you need for maintenance, based on your age, lifestyle etc? https://www.calculator.net/calorie-calculator.html
Feeling stressed about food isnt' a good place to be, and maybe there are other resources that can help you with that. Don't underestimate its impact and be kind to yourself.
Maybe you are anxious about weighing and putting in quantities? You could just track the food you eat and leave the values blank for now, then you can look at the end of the day and see what exactly are you eating over the course of a week. Maybe it's not so much how much you are eating, but the food choices. Or maybe your food choices are great, but portion size might not be. The only way to learn about where you are is to measure it, and I'd look at it scientifically - an experiment into understanding what you are eating. It's not an exercise in judgement, this is about empowering you to make changes that will help you feel better (if you want to!).
Tracking is a bit like weighing yourself, you aren't the number on the scale (nor the foods that you log) but at a certain point, the number on the scale (or your food choices) will impact your health or life style, either positively or negatively!6 -
True, but different times. Obesity wasn't as prevalent, ultra processed foods weren't so ready available and promoted, I suspect more jobs became more sedentary compared to previous generations, etc.I'm old enough to remember when calorie counting wasn't a practical method, but people managed to lose weight anyway. Those methods still work.
I agree calorie counting isn't essential, just saying it's probably harder to lose weight and keep it off now than decades ago, without availing yourself of tools like MFP.1 -
Retroguy2000 wrote: »
True, but different times. Obesity wasn't as prevalent, ultra processed foods weren't so ready available and promoted, I suspect more jobs became more sedentary compared to previous generations, etc.I'm old enough to remember when calorie counting wasn't a practical method, but people managed to lose weight anyway. Those methods still work.
I agree calorie counting isn't essential, just saying it's probably harder to lose weight and keep it off now than decades ago, without availing yourself of tools like MFP.
Even in the 1970s, ultra processed foods were pretty available - somewhat so in the 1960s, even. Yes to the other stuff . . . but the older methods can still work for people for whom counting creates too much obsession or anxiety.
You know I personally swear by counting as a methodology for myself, but gotta be realistic that it may not be perfect for everyone, and I'd hate to have anyone like that (which may include OP) think that weight loss is only possible by counting.
The things you mention (except the processed food one) just mean that modern folks' calorie goals may need to be a little lower than in the olden days of the 1970s . . . but even that's not true if the person puts a premium on increasing activity level through either exercise or daily life stuff.
I'd rather encourage OP to believe weight loss is possible in various ways - which I firmly believe to be true - and not to think that counting is the only way, even though I agree it's a remarkably straightforward way for people whom it suits.3 -
Maybe try a green salad 15 minutes before one of your scheduled meals, as an appetizer if you may. This roughage slows our main digestion and reduces the insulin response which is more likely to keep the hunger signaling in the brain to a minimum. Basically it's a hack to reduce that initial insulin response, that for the most part in the demographic are insulin resistant and overweight will make a big difference in the response in the gut in regards to leptin our "we're full" hormone, especially considering this demographic is also generally leptin resistant as well.3
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neanderthin wrote: »Intuitive eating is basically eating to satiety and where your not gaining weight. Whole foods helps this situation a lot as does the type of carbs your consuming. You want whole grains and legumes to displace any refined grains for the most part, cut back as much as you can on any sugary foods and sugary liquids and that includes fruit juices. Satiety is basically gut and brain hormonal signaling, and very easily disrupted when your carb allotment is comprised of mostly of the refined and sugary foods, and why I suggest you change that, it may work, it works for many. Low carb and ketogenic diets are the go to for intuitive eating and many that are successful don't count calories, myself included.
Yes, I've been able to "eat intuitively" when living in unusual situations where the food selection was very limited - at yoga centers where meals focusing on whole grains and legumes plus lots of non-starchy veggies were provided and at a yoga retreat center in Costa Rica where I cooked one of the meals but the food selection was very limited. Here there was lots of rice & beans and tropical fruit, but again no sugary foods or liquids, and also no cheese. (There was no refrigeration, which further reduced the selection.)
However, when I am doing all the shopping at American groceries stores and doing most of the cooking, intuitive eating does not work for me.
I put "eat intuitively" in quotes because I don't know that it really counts when the vast majority of my choices are nutrient dense as opposed to hyper-palatable/calorie dense.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »Intuitive eating is basically eating to satiety and where your not gaining weight. Whole foods helps this situation a lot as does the type of carbs your consuming. You want whole grains and legumes to displace any refined grains for the most part, cut back as much as you can on any sugary foods and sugary liquids and that includes fruit juices. Satiety is basically gut and brain hormonal signaling, and very easily disrupted when your carb allotment is comprised of mostly of the refined and sugary foods, and why I suggest you change that, it may work, it works for many. Low carb and ketogenic diets are the go to for intuitive eating and many that are successful don't count calories, myself included.
Yes, I've been able to "eat intuitively" when living in unusual situations where the food selection was very limited - at yoga centers where meals focusing on whole grains and legumes plus lots of non-starchy veggies were provided and at a yoga retreat center in Costa Rica where I cooked one of the meals but the food selection was very limited. Here there was lots of rice & beans and tropical fruit, but again no sugary foods or liquids, and also no cheese. (There was no refrigeration, which further reduced the selection.)
However, when I am doing all the shopping at American groceries stores and doing most of the cooking, intuitive eating does not work for me.
I put "eat intuitively" in quotes because I don't know that it really counts when the vast majority of my choices are nutrient dense as opposed to hyper-palatable/calorie dense.
I don't think there's any easy answers kshama2001. When your offered or introduced to hyperpalatable food choices
it becomes difficult to resist because they stimulate the brain’s reward system, which creates feelings of pleasure and satisfaction which may affect the ability to control food intake and cravings and this is mostly due to food availability, cost, convenience, advertising and peer pressure. Basically they've been engineered to be this way and rely heavily on human physiology for this effect. They modify the release of hormones that regulate hunger, stress, and metabolism and there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
The poster boy for processed and ultra processed foods and their possible connection and effect on our health is to look at the pacific island of Nauru which is the #1 Country for obesity. 94% are overweight with around 65% obese. The WHO have Nauru's population at 31% diabetic and with people between the age of 55-64 around 45%. The highest population other than them is China at 11% and the USA at10 %.
Nauru was a very poor country until mining took over for phosphorus and consequently left the land totally unusable with over 90% of the Island a wasteland with a grocery list of contaminants . Consequently agriculture or any farming is impossible which led to every food stuff to be imported with the majority foods that store easily and have long shelf life. Basically they lived on processed and ultra processed foods almost exclusively. This is one of the saddest stories of human exploitation I've come across, where it effected a whole population. The Australian government is still trying to fix this total disaster they created. A very innocent and free living people that were taken advantage of with basically no knowledge of nutrition was like a time bomb.
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When your offered or introduced to hyperpalatable food choices
it becomes difficult to resist because they stimulate the brain’s reward system, which creates feelings of pleasure and satisfaction which may affect the ability to control food intake and cravings and this is mostly due to food availability, cost, convenience, advertising and peer pressure. Basically they've been engineered to be this way and rely heavily on human physiology for this effect. They modify the release of hormones that regulate hunger, stress, and metabolism and there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
You say this as if it’s a fact and this WILL happen. This is a scare tactic that gets increasingly old to me. If this is your experience, please, just say that. And, it’s possible you don’t need to change your food, but potentially need psychotherapy due to your fear of sugar and insulin.
For *me* allowing a variety of foods, especially the ones you demonize, has prevented more eating disorders than created.10 -
Instead of ad hominem attacks why not argue why hyperpalatable foods don't have this effect that I suggest they do on human physiology.3
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I think all that needs to be added to the post you quoted is,You say this as if it’s a fact and this WILL happen. This is a scare tactic that gets increasingly old to me. If this is your experience, please, just say that. And, it’s possible you don’t need to change your food, but potentially need psychotherapy due to your fear of sugar and insulin.
For *me* allowing a variety of foods, especially the ones you demonize, has prevented more eating disorders than created.
"there's really no good way to get around this, at a population level, sans the removal of these types of foods."
At an individual level, I agree with you. Clearly at a population level, this is a bigger issue.1 -
neanderthin wrote: »Instead of ad hominem attacks why not argue why hyperpalatable foods don't have this effect that I suggest they do on human physiology.
You’re saying highly palatable foods, what, make you addicted? They have yet to prove humans are addicted to sugar despite the numerous tests. Do we like food that tastes good? Yes.
Don’t make it more complicated than necessary. If you are going to use hormones as an excuse for controlling our decisions then a lot of women who have been attacked will be pretty upset with your line of thinking. Bodies have hormones in conjunction with a multitude of other functions. Basic, normal, hormones are not the enemy. If you want to cut out carbs/sugar, be my guest. But quit implying to everyone that it’s the answer because, as you imply, we are impervious to the hormones that react to certain macros.
You can argue on this day in and day out, as you do, I said what I said. It gets old and it’s not helpful to fear monger on something that you choose to do for yourself. Just say that.5 -
neanderthin wrote: »Instead of ad hominem attacks why not argue why hyperpalatable foods don't have this effect that I suggest they do on human physiology.
You’re saying highly palatable foods, what, make you addicted? They have yet to prove humans are addicted to sugar despite the numerous tests. Do we like food that tastes good? Yes.
Don’t make it more complicated than necessary. If you are going to use hormones as an excuse for controlling our decisions then a lot of women who have been attacked will be pretty upset with your line of thinking. Bodies have hormones in conjunction with a multitude of other functions. Basic, normal, hormones are not the enemy. If you want to cut out carbs/sugar, be my guest. But quit implying for everyone that it’s the answer because, as you imply, we are impervious to the hormones that react to certain macros.
I'm going to requote what he said because it seems to me like you are reading something into it that is not there:I don't think there's any easy answers kshama2001. When your offered or introduced to hyperpalatable food choices it becomes difficult to resist because they stimulate the brain’s reward system, which creates feelings of pleasure and satisfaction which may affect the ability to control food intake and cravings and this is mostly due to food availability, cost, convenience, advertising and peer pressure. Basically they've been engineered to be this way and rely heavily on human physiology for this effect. They modify the release of hormones that regulate hunger, stress, and metabolism and there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
I'm female and didn't interpret the mention of hormones as female hormones. I assumed he was talking about hormones like ghrelin and cortisol.
@neanderthin didn't mention addiction.
Have you read "Salt, Sugar, Fat" by Michael Moss? Whether or not food can in fact be scientifically classified as "addictive," making it in practice difficult to put down is the goal of some food manufacturers, and the industry was not at all shy of using the word "addictive" as a desirable trait in their products.
https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Sugar-Fat-Giants-Hooked/dp/0812982193
"...Featuring examples from Kraft, Coca-Cola, Lunchables, Frito-Lay, Nestlé, Oreos, Capri Sun, and many more, Moss’s explosive, empowering narrative is grounded in meticulous, eye-opening research. He takes us into labs where scientists calculate the “bliss point” of sugary beverages, unearths marketing techniques taken straight from tobacco company playbooks, and talks to concerned insiders who make startling confessions."4 -
Now your constructing a bunch of logical fallacies. Nowhere did I say addicted, and I've repeatedly said removing UPF with whole foods is a better course of action. My particular medical situation I've said that a ketogenic diet works for me but I've never said it's the only way and everyone should or we're all doomed.3
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@kshama2001 The issue is how he consistently says we need to remove these foods.
They modify the release of hormones that regulate hunger, stress, and metabolism and there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
We don’t need to remove “these types of foods”. This is his holy grail and that’s fine, but telling people it’s the only way to regulate hunger, stress, and metabolism is by living a more keto lifestyle is a belief and not an answer. We can do the same thing having a balanced diet. Constantly demonizing sugar, carbs, the process of insulin, is what I personally get tired of reading. I enjoy many of his responses other than these ones. I think creating fear does more harm than good.
Also, I wasn’t interpreting it as female hormones, I knew what he meant. I just made an example of how we can’t blame hormones for everything.6 -
@kshama2001 The issue is how he consistently says we need to remove these foods.
They modify the release of hormones that regulate hunger, stress, and metabolism and there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
We don’t need to remove “these types of foods”. This is his holy grail and that’s fine, but telling people it’s the only way to regulate hunger, stress, and metabolism is by living a more keto lifestyle is a belief and not an answer. We can do the same thing having a balanced diet. Constantly demonizing sugar, carbs, the process of insulin, is what I personally get tired of reading. I enjoy many of his responses other than these ones. I think creating fear does more harm than good.
Also, I wasn’t interpreting it as female hormones, I knew what he meant. I just made an example of how we can’t blame hormones for everything.
Your taking this out of context. It's in reference to the population that are obese, have diabetes and people who have insulin resistance. The majority and actually over 70% of the population fall into this category with half the population that actually get tested have IR, so yeah, refined carbs and sugar are a big concern as it relates to their insulin levels. This isn't some kind of conspiracy theory, this has been well known for decades. I'm not sure why knowing something that is basically common knowledge in nutrition you would then call it creating fear and is doing more harm than good.4 -
Yeah, ddsb, this isn't a conspiracy theory or fearmongering, it's a known fact. You okay?2
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Huh?
Good tasting food has the propensity to be overeaten.
Grandma's took time and *effort* to make and she couldn't afford the time, effort, and money everyday.
Door dash, McD, Sonic, pizza pasta and Twinkies and Cheetos change all that and we can light up our little light bulbs.
Solution: nuke door dash, mcD, pizza pasta and Twinkies and ...
Solution: stop eating them every day (or even not even every 5th day) eat your veggies and even more "veggies"* and move more.
Neither is universal.
Some may APPEAR to WORK better
But only the ones that work for YOU for YEARS will make a real difference.
It is the CALORIES stupid. Period. Full stop.
How you manage the calories is up to you.
Some ways will work and some won't.
*My* truth is that as long as I was looking for a magic way prompted by sheets and plans from doctors, internets, and what have you emails and magazines NOTHING worked
Because *I* had to find my own way and learn to both follow it and learn how to adjust.
And as long as there was virtue signaling as opposed to needs (energy, base nutritional components, understanding of trade offs re nutrition and light bulbs and energy needs), as long as it didn't come to hard core trading and substitutions that I was personally willing to make and continue to make nothing worked for more than a few fleeing months.
And let me throw in not overdoing things, i.e. *relative* moderation and light touch as opposed to sledgehammer reacting.
So maybe something is marginally more advantageous IF you can implement it.
Doesn't matter one lick if it doesn't work for YOU
You do you boo!
(Me too!🤣)
*"Veggies" = nutrient rich items!
Also: nothing wrong with proposing to boo what worked for me or you so that boo can take it into consideration and do them. But I think the caveat of how long of a timeframe they will have to do them to find success should be emphasized way more than it is4 -
neanderthin wrote: »@kshama2001 The issue is how he consistently says we need to remove these foods.
They modify the release of hormones that regulate hunger, stress, and metabolism and there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
We don’t need to remove “these types of foods”. This is his holy grail and that’s fine, but telling people it’s the only way to regulate hunger, stress, and metabolism is by living a more keto lifestyle is a belief and not an answer. We can do the same thing having a balanced diet. Constantly demonizing sugar, carbs, the process of insulin, is what I personally get tired of reading. I enjoy many of his responses other than these ones. I think creating fear does more harm than good.
Also, I wasn’t interpreting it as female hormones, I knew what he meant. I just made an example of how we can’t blame hormones for everything.
Your taking this out of context. It's in reference to the population that are obese, have diabetes and people who have insulin resistance. The majority and actually over 70% of the population fall into this category with half the population that actually get tested have IR, so yeah, refined carbs and sugar are a big concern as it relates to their insulin levels. This isn't some kind of conspiracy theory, this has been well known for decades. I'm not sure why knowing something that is basically common knowledge in nutrition you would then call it creating fear and is doing more harm than good.
If I took this out of context I didn’t see where you wrote that the advice was for that specific type of person only, in this, or many previous posts you have made. If that’s the case, then I would hope they knew they were an outlier and hopefully their doctor provided the resources. But I do agree, if someone has a medical condition, eat as directed.
For people wanting to lose weight, the media does a stellar job of creating fear of everything from fat, low-fat, sugar and carbs, to food timing. What *I* get tired of seeing is the constant flippant response to those who don’t have an actual medical condition, pushing to eat keto and the removal of normal everyday foods of any kind. Advocating for a diet that removes a large portion of a normal, everyday macro, can create serious food disorders or disordered thinking.
I am just trying to raise awareness (to the OP and others) that it’s important not to cut things out unless necessary, and sometimes doing the internal work of creating a better routine, habit, or relationship with food, is what is actually necessary.
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