Vegetable diversity for gut health
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chucks510
Posts: 2 Member
I have gut health issues and my nurse practitioner (and several other people) have recommended vegetable diversity to address these issues. Does anyone here have experience with how to put this into practice?
When I search the internet for "vegetable diversity" or better yet, "veggies for gut health," I get lots of results. This link jumps out at me: 16 Best Fruits and Vegetables For Gut Health, According to RDs.
Any thoughts? I'm new here. This is my first post.
Thanks, Chuck
When I search the internet for "vegetable diversity" or better yet, "veggies for gut health," I get lots of results. This link jumps out at me: 16 Best Fruits and Vegetables For Gut Health, According to RDs.
Any thoughts? I'm new here. This is my first post.
Thanks, Chuck
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Replies
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Caveat that I am not a medical professional in any way, shape, or form.
Typically when I think of vegetable diversity I think: Color and Type (root, leaf, fruit (of the plant), flower, bulb, berry, etc)
So, to me, making sure I had veggie diversity would be getting veggies that are a variety of those two categories. Walking through the produce department and going through the aisle and looking at each veggie and seeing where it falls in those, and compare "is what I have in my cart the same, or is this another group?" Then, filling your cart with that variety!
I naturally tend towards a pretty wide variety of veggies because I like diversity in my meals, but I could see how that could be more of a struggle if you're used to what you're familiar with and haven't explored some of the strange or unknown veggies.
Getting a vegetable CSA helped me explore veggies I was otherwise avoiding at the grocery store, and got me to try some new things. Now I'm less nervous about that "weird" vegg that caught my eye on the shelf. Google recipes help, not hard to say you have something like fennel and look up some recipes or ideas on how to prep/eat it.4 -
Did they take a biopsy of your gut microbiome and have it analyzed and established which ones would work best considering all vegetables with have different issues regarding nutrient content, compounds and absorption. Did they happen to mention a FODMAP diet, which would for the most part, be doing the exact opposite. Vegetables get that honorary pass, just because, much like all the other advice that gets repeated in Dr. offices like drink plenty of water, eat healthier, eat more grain, less red meat, oh, and eat more vegetables.....next patient. Anyway, you can try adding more vegetables if you aren't eating much now, but if your not feeling any better I would suggest a FODMAP elimination diet for gut issues.
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Thanks for your responses. My NP (nurse practitioner) specializes in Integrative Medicine. I don't have IBS or digestive issues. Recently, my NP ordered a GI-Map test. Based on the results, there were two recommendations, vegetable diversity and to start taking Metabolic Daily from Pendulum. A friend of mine, who has doctorate in microbiology with work related to gut microbiome, reviewed my GI Map and confirmed that these are good recommendations.
I'm seeing a nutritionist (referred to me by the NP) and she gave me a "phytonutrient spectrum foods" handout from Institute for Functional Medicine. I found that online here.
@HoneyBadger302 Thanks for mentioning that getting a vegetable CSA helped you explore veggies. I hadn't heard CSA (Community Supported Agriculture). I live near Berkeley Bowl and they have a tremendous produce selection.
@neanderthin Thanks for mentioning the FODMAP diet. I'll look into that.
I think that my phytonutrient spectrum foods handout (link above) gets me started, but I need to put it into practice with recipes and meals. I just googled "30 plant challenge" and found lots of gut health related links.
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I haven't heard of "vegetable diversity" as any kind of official well-defined thing, but do think it's a good idea to eat lots of varied, colorful fruits and veggies (unless contraindicated by a health condition, of course). So I do that.
I've heard about the "30 plants a week" idea. I haven't had the patience to count a whole week, but have counted a couple of typical days, finding around an 8-14 count for different veggies and fruits in each typical day, and that's not counting other plant foods like seeds, nuts, whole grains, let alone spices (all of which I eat some of pretty much daily). I know I don't eat exactly the same ones every day, so I strongly suspect I'm hitting around 30 different ones per week now.
I've eaten around 10 of the things in your "16 best fruits and vegetables for gut health" within the past week. I did a challenge kind of like your phytonutrient spectrum challenge a few years back, and it did help me notice and improve my eating patterns. (That PDF seems pretty sensible to me, not the kind of crazy "eat only superfoods" nonsense that often seems to be promoted often on the internet these days.)
What's my point? I'm not sure it's essential to be super technical or complicated about this. Maybe common sense works? Like, just eat a bunch of different veggies and fruits you like, vary the rotation, make it a point to try new ones?
I like Honeybadger's idea about varied colors and varied types of plant parts. I also have had phases where I'd go to the local big produce market and pick out veggies or fruits I hadn't had (at least not often), look them up online on my phone to figure out if there were manageable ways to cook/eat them, then take home the likely candidates to try. That's been fun, and has added diversity to my regular rotation because some of those things were really yummy.
You asked if we had thoughts. Those are the ones I had. Welcome to MFP, and best wishes for success with your goals.3 -
Hi Chuck! Hi All!
I’ve been following a few studies on plant diversity and gut health. I’ve been putting into practice for my own health needs. Though, I’m obsessed with vegetables… so any reason to try more and mix it up works for me.
I think of vegetables as somewhat exotic as there are so many out there to try! Do you have any international markets near you? Even more variety. Asian market? Check out their yams and radishes.
The crux of the plan- The more diversity in your choice of veggies, the more diverse the nutrient supply for your gut microbiota -think dietary fibers, prebiotics, and polyphenols.
When you are planning your daily menu… how can you include the most diverse vegetables at every meal?
Jerusalem artichoke is a popular choice as a probiotic (it’s a a high fiber tuber) to start the day.
For breakfast.. do you eat omelettes? Super easy to chuck a bunch of diced veggies in there. Choose 3-4.
I love using my Vitamix to blend a bunch of greens and berries in the morning and I drink it. That may be an easy shooter for you to get a cornucopia going.
Lunch..: mixed salad greens.. that counts towards a diverse array of lettuces. How about some cucumber, tomato and x,y,z in that salad… that’s more variety. Cabbages are great for fiber as well, which supplies more goood bacteria for the gut.
Etc etc…. Finish a meal or have a snack of citrus fruit or berries.
I’ve been really interested in the science of gut health… it’s fascinating. Hope it works out for ya!
Ps - there is a veggie lovers (produce) thread at MFP that may give you ideas about vegetables in all their glory.
(I kind of love the idea of a veggie phytonutrient challenge on MFP. 😏)1 -
SafariGalNYC wrote: »Hi Chuck! Hi All!
(snip good post for reply length)
Ps - there is a veggie lovers (produce) thread at MFP that may give you ideas about vegetables in all their glory.
I think SafariGal is probably referring to this one:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10726786/for-the-love-of-produce#latest
It's pretty fun, and often inspiring.
(I kind of love the idea of a veggie phytonutrient challenge on MFP. 😏)
We did a "10 veggie/fruit servings daily" challenge a few years back, and that was fun.
Remembering that challenge brings back to mind a caution for anyone who's dramatically ramping up veggie/fruit intake, or fiber intake through any means: Phase in more fiber gradually. Don't go from too little fiber to really lots all in one jump.
It could work out OK, but in the "10 a day" challenge, some people who went from low servings straight to 10 did experience digestive distress.
Research suggests it takes a couple of weeks (or so) for gut microbiome to adapt to a dietary change. With fiber increase specifically, bloating and gassiness could occur, as could constipation or diarrhea. Constipation risk increases with sub-ideal hydration (i.e. get enough fluids!) or insufficient fat intake (i.e., grease the pipes - metaphorically speaking!).
Increasing veggies/fruits gradually should help avoid that unpleasantness.
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SafariGalNYC wrote: »Hi Chuck! Hi All!
(snip good post for reply length)
Ps - there is a veggie lovers (produce) thread at MFP that may give you ideas about vegetables in all their glory.
I think SafariGal is probably referring to this one:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10726786/for-the-love-of-produce#latest
It's pretty fun, and often inspiring.
(I kind of love the idea of a veggie phytonutrient challenge on MFP. 😏)
We did a "10 veggie/fruit servings daily" challenge a few years back, and that was fun.
Remembering that challenge brings back to mind a caution for anyone who's dramatically ramping up veggie/fruit intake, or fiber intake through any means: Phase in more fiber gradually. Don't go from too little fiber to really lots all in one jump.
It could work out OK, but in the "10 a day" challenge, some people who went from low servings straight to 10 did experience digestive distress.
Research suggests it takes a couple of weeks (or so) for gut microbiome to adapt to a dietary change. With fiber increase specifically, bloating and gassiness could occur, as could constipation or diarrhea. Constipation risk increases with sub-ideal hydration (i.e. get enough fluids!) or insufficient fat intake (i.e., grease the pipes - metaphorically speaking!).
Increasing veggies/fruits gradually should help avoid that unpleasantness.
Yes that was a great challenge!! Hoping for a 2024 reboot. 😉2 -
SafariGalNYC wrote: »SafariGalNYC wrote: »Hi Chuck! Hi All!
(snip good post for reply length)
Ps - there is a veggie lovers (produce) thread at MFP that may give you ideas about vegetables in all their glory.
I think SafariGal is probably referring to this one:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10726786/for-the-love-of-produce#latest
It's pretty fun, and often inspiring.
(I kind of love the idea of a veggie phytonutrient challenge on MFP. 😏)
We did a "10 veggie/fruit servings daily" challenge a few years back, and that was fun.
Remembering that challenge brings back to mind a caution for anyone who's dramatically ramping up veggie/fruit intake, or fiber intake through any means: Phase in more fiber gradually. Don't go from too little fiber to really lots all in one jump.
It could work out OK, but in the "10 a day" challenge, some people who went from low servings straight to 10 did experience digestive distress.
Research suggests it takes a couple of weeks (or so) for gut microbiome to adapt to a dietary change. With fiber increase specifically, bloating and gassiness could occur, as could constipation or diarrhea. Constipation risk increases with sub-ideal hydration (i.e. get enough fluids!) or insufficient fat intake (i.e., grease the pipes - metaphorically speaking!).
Increasing veggies/fruits gradually should help avoid that unpleasantness.
Yes that was a great challenge!! Hoping for a 2024 reboot. 😉
Seize the reins yourself?
:drinker:
Or should say "do you have boots?" so as not to mix metaphors?
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I'm not a med professional; I'm sharing my experience, not giving advice.
I've been following a lot of the Youtube nutrition vids put out by the Zoe group of folks. One of the principals states that we should aim for 40 differing veg a week, and this includes the contribution of various herbs and spices, not just what we'd consider a "vegetable." The FDA recommendations I think are on total consumption (servings per day), not the blend of what comprises it. I could be wrong.
I had errands the other day, and for my late dinner, made up a quick diced veg salad (no on-hand greens) - see below. Seven differing veg in there - red cabbage, red onion, red/green/yellow bell peppers, tomatoes, cucumbers. Plus assorted herbs. I aim for lots of colors as well as veg assortment.
The entree was a throw-together whole wheat pasta with homemade tomato-cannellini sauce.
Overall, I think this was a gut biome-friendly meal, and is more typical of the emphasis on whole foods we been pursuing at home,
Adding in my oat, nutritional yeast, blueberry, wheat germ breakfast and evening apple, that's pretty varied assortment of plant-based foods, lots of fiber, and etc.
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Yeah, Dr. Spector of Zoe relies on the more is better philosophy when it comes to microbiome. I'm not too sure I can go along with that considering the bulk of knowledge of this particular science, which is in it's infancy. Consuming 40 different vegetables a week would require for most cultures and people to import most of those vegetables outside of their normal and immediate environment which will introduce some totally foreign compounds . For example would the Hadza hunter gatherer community of Tanzania have a better and more diverse gut microbiome from consuming 40 different foods from different countries or would it effect their gut balance and the effectualness of it's diversity. Don't know but the science says on the surface, it does and will, so I'll reserve my opinion for the time being as a maybe and maybe not. Of course if your replacing some pretty nutrient deficient foods found in quite a few UPF then yes anything is an improvement, which I think confuses the issue a bit, but then again that's just my opinion.3
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neanderthin wrote: »Yeah, Dr. Spector of Zoe relies on the more is better philosophy when it comes to microbiome. I'm not too sure I can go along with that considering the bulk of knowledge of this particular science, which is in it's infancy. Consuming 40 different vegetables a week would require for most cultures and people to import most of those vegetables outside of their normal and immediate environment which will introduce some totally foreign compounds . For example would the Hadza hunter gatherer community of Tanzania have a better and more diverse gut microbiome from consuming 40 different foods from different countries or would it effect their gut balance and the effectualness of it's diversity. Don't know but the science says on the surface, it does and will, so I'll reserve my opinion for the time being as a maybe and maybe not. Of course if your replacing some pretty nutrient deficient foods found in quite a few UPF then yes anything is an improvement, which I think confuses the issue a bit, but then again that's just my opinion.
I agree with you there. I mean, I could easily fill up 10 of those 40 with 10 different types of potatoes but that's pretty much all there is on local food. Plus, buying so many different veg would likely mean a massive amount of food wastage. On the other hand, it might reduce the amount of meat consumed (huge water waste, deforesting, methane, etc) if you want to eat all those veg 😅2 -
neanderthin wrote: »Yeah, Dr. Spector of Zoe relies on the more is better philosophy when it comes to microbiome. I'm not too sure I can go along with that considering the bulk of knowledge of this particular science, which is in it's infancy. Consuming 40 different vegetables a week would require for most cultures and people to import most of those vegetables outside of their normal and immediate environment which will introduce some totally foreign compounds . For example would the Hadza hunter gatherer community of Tanzania have a better and more diverse gut microbiome from consuming 40 different foods from different countries or would it effect their gut balance and the effectualness of it's diversity. Don't know but the science says on the surface, it does and will, so I'll reserve my opinion for the time being as a maybe and maybe not. Of course if your replacing some pretty nutrient deficient foods found in quite a few UPF then yes anything is an improvement, which I think confuses the issue a bit, but then again that's just my opinion.
I agree with you there. I mean, I could easily fill up 10 of those 40 with 10 different types of potatoes but that's pretty much all there is on local food. Plus, buying so many different veg would likely mean a massive amount of food wastage. On the other hand, it might reduce the amount of meat consumed (huge water waste, deforesting, methane, etc) if you want to eat all those veg 😅
Yeah, food wastage is a problem and about 1/3 of all food production worldwide is wasted and a byproduct of that is the release of methane into the atmosphere, and melting icebergs but like the methane from ruminant animals like cows the source of that methane is from existing plant compounds and for cows it's grass for the most part and not from millions of years ago that is buried underground. The methane released from the ground does contribute to the warming of the atmosphere but the methane from food wastage and cow burps don't, they work on a 12 year cyclical life.
Also the water waste is also a talking point with not much nuance except it a bad thing when in actual fact over 80% of that water comes from the ground in the grass cows consume. As far as land being deforested, yes I get it, but it's also deforested for agriculture and for the most part the land that animals like cows and sheep graze is called marginal land, which comprises about 75% of the landmass on the planet and crops can't really be grown there and what it does produce is a lot of really good protein for the worlds population, otherwise it's just a waste of good land. Just my take on it. 1 -
neanderthin wrote: »Yeah, Dr. Spector of Zoe relies on the more is better philosophy when it comes to microbiome. I'm not too sure I can go along with that considering the bulk of knowledge of this particular science, which is in it's infancy. Consuming 40 different vegetables a week would require for most cultures and people to import most of those vegetables outside of their normal and immediate environment which will introduce some totally foreign compounds . For example would the Hadza hunter gatherer community of Tanzania have a better and more diverse gut microbiome from consuming 40 different foods from different countries or would it effect their gut balance and the effectualness of it's diversity. Don't know but the science says on the surface, it does and will, so I'll reserve my opinion for the time being as a maybe and maybe not. Of course if your replacing some pretty nutrient deficient foods found in quite a few UPF then yes anything is an improvement, which I think confuses the issue a bit, but then again that's just my opinion.
I agree with you there. I mean, I could easily fill up 10 of those 40 with 10 different types of potatoes but that's pretty much all there is on local food. Plus, buying so many different veg would likely mean a massive amount of food wastage. On the other hand, it might reduce the amount of meat consumed (huge water waste, deforesting, methane, etc) if you want to eat all those veg 😅
Note that the "40 veg" idea as described in a PP is actually 40 plant foods (not just veg) and included spices and herbs. IIRC, you use quite a few of such spices/herbs, @yirara? (Not sure how diverse, though. I just recall you mentioning that spices could be a meaningful calorie contributor in your way of eating.)
Looking beyond that PP, Zoe seems also to count seeds, beans, nuts, popcorn, even coffee and chocolate. I'd assume tea also counts, though I didn't see that on a quick read.2 -
neanderthin wrote: »Yeah, Dr. Spector of Zoe relies on the more is better philosophy when it comes to microbiome. I'm not too sure I can go along with that considering the bulk of knowledge of this particular science, which is in it's infancy. Consuming 40 different vegetables a week would require for most cultures and people to import most of those vegetables outside of their normal and immediate environment which will introduce some totally foreign compounds . For example would the Hadza hunter gatherer community of Tanzania have a better and more diverse gut microbiome from consuming 40 different foods from different countries or would it effect their gut balance and the effectualness of it's diversity. Don't know but the science says on the surface, it does and will, so I'll reserve my opinion for the time being as a maybe and maybe not. Of course if your replacing some pretty nutrient deficient foods found in quite a few UPF then yes anything is an improvement, which I think confuses the issue a bit, but then again that's just my opinion.
I agree with you there. I mean, I could easily fill up 10 of those 40 with 10 different types of potatoes but that's pretty much all there is on local food. Plus, buying so many different veg would likely mean a massive amount of food wastage. On the other hand, it might reduce the amount of meat consumed (huge water waste, deforesting, methane, etc) if you want to eat all those veg 😅
Note that the "40 veg" idea as described in a PP is actually 40 plant foods (not just veg) and included spices and herbs. IIRC, you use quite a few of such spices/herbs, @yirara? (Not sure how diverse, though. I just recall you mentioning that spices could be a meaningful calorie contributor in your way of eating.)
Looking beyond that PP, Zoe seems also to count seeds, beans, nuts, popcorn, even coffee and chocolate. I'd assume tea also counts, though I didn't see that on a quick read.
Haha, yes! I'm not sure what 10 types of tea (which I do have) would do for gut health, or a massive amount of spices and herbs. Would still be a stretch. But anyway, I think my diet is fairly healthy overall.
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