"Eat well, live better" class vs. MFP
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I agree with you.One of the thing to aim for according to the Mediterranean scoring tool is 480 calories of olive oil every day? I'm not going to do that, period.
(They apparently would want that to be in addition to the fatty fish and nuts, besides. Yikes.)
Overall, looking at the whole scoring tool, I get it, but there are some not very nuanced points in there IMO if one is pursuing overall healthy eating, a maybe broader thing than just "eat Mediterranean". (Don't interpret that as a diss to Mediterranean; even as described there, it looks like a reasonably healthy approach, even though I'm not gonna spend that many calories on any oil daily. (Personal goal is 50g/450 calorie fat minimum, prioritizing MUFA/PUFA and enough O-3s for balance.)
I had 3 tsp of EVOO today for 150 calories. Now, this is just for cooking and salads. I'm sure there's oil in other things I ate today. Will it add up to 480 calories total? I don't know. That's why I said there's a lot of nonsense on the Med diet. Just use common sense. No one seems to talk about that anymore.
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history_grrrl wrote: »@snowflake954, I just posted above some of the "Mediterranean diet" material. Somewhere else, I saw a discussion saying this originated with some guy in the 1950s observing eating patterns of people in southern Italy, but now I can't seem to find it.
Yes--I know. I believe his name was Keyes. He especially liked the way they ate in small villages. People were poor, that's why they ate less meat and more legumes. They also foraged on the hillsides and in the countryside. In the village where my MIL was born, they ate greens that you couldn't even buy in the cities. When we went there to visit, I'd taste some of these wonderful recipes--incredible stuff. One that I remember was a frittata made with wild asparagus.1 -
snowflake954 wrote: »history_grrrl wrote: »@snowflake954, I just posted above some of the "Mediterranean diet" material. Somewhere else, I saw a discussion saying this originated with some guy in the 1950s observing eating patterns of people in southern Italy, but now I can't seem to find it.
Yes--I know. I believe his name was Keyes. He especially liked the way they ate in small villages. People were poor, that's why they ate less meat and more legumes. They also foraged on the hillsides and in the countryside. In the village where my MIL was born, they ate greens that you couldn't even buy in the cities. When we went there to visit, I'd taste some of these wonderful recipes--incredible stuff. One that I remember was a frittata made with wild asparagus.
That sounds about right. The Italian immigrants who migrated to my part of southern Ontario in the 1960s came from the South, and many left because of postwar poverty. My ex-landlord, when I was renting, described visiting his peasant relatives there and the amazing food, as you have. One of my neighbours still grows garlic descended from garlic she brought over when she migrated. My visiting SO managed to finagle a sample from her, and now he grows it in his own garden, marked by a little Italian flag.3 -
Well, I do agree with calories in-calories out being oversimplified.
In general, yeah, no one is gonna get fat stuck on a deserted island. Watching your calories is a good gauge.
But in the real world, we also know things like hormones (Esp. fluctuations caused by menopause or PCOS and such), insulin resistance, certain medications, etc. can make it more difficult to lose weight.
There is a reason why if you put a bunch of people on an identical diet for the same amount of time, they aren't going to lose the exact same amount of weight. There's gonna be some variations in what they lose base on individual bodies. It can be very discouraging when someone is trying to lose weight, has some unknown inhibitor that is causing them to progress slower than expected, and everyone else is just telling them calories in-calories out, so I personally hate acting like it's a simple and fool-proof formula for everyone.
But health at every size movement, well, that always kind of irked me. When you're super morbidly obese, you can't be healthy at that size in the long run. Maybe it'll take a bit to catch up with you but eventually it's going to catch up. I don't think medical professionals should encourage obese or morbidly obese people to just maintain.
As for plate method vs. counting/tracking vs. any type of diet-- I think one size does not fit all. Best to figure out what works best for you, not just based on your body but on your lifestyle so that you can live with your new habits.1 -
Honestly the only thing that has worked for me and made me accountable is CICO.
I guess it’s personal though and you really have to take the time to work out what works for your personality and for your body as well.0 -
snowflake954 wrote: »history_grrrl wrote: »@snowflake954, I just posted above some of the "Mediterranean diet" material. Somewhere else, I saw a discussion saying this originated with some guy in the 1950s observing eating patterns of people in southern Italy, but now I can't seem to find it.
Yes--I know. I believe his name was Keyes. He especially liked the way they ate in small villages. People were poor, that's why they ate less meat and more legumes. They also foraged on the hillsides and in the countryside. In the village where my MIL was born, they ate greens that you couldn't even buy in the cities. When we went there to visit, I'd taste some of these wonderful recipes--incredible stuff. One that I remember was a frittata made with wild asparagus.
Keyes research is highly suspect and there are a lot of reputable sources debunking it. For one thing it was a self-report epidemiological study, which is the least reliable type of data. He neglected to add the data of a host of other countries that simply didn't have the results he wanted-- he chose 9 out of 21. He gathered his data in Greece during Lent, when everyone eats less meat for that period for religious reasons. There are also a bunch of other factors contributing to longevity that are found in the Blue Zones that have nothing to do with diet.
Keyes was a doctor on a mission; he married himself to a narrative he was determined to cling to and push at all costs even when contrary data was presented, he was notorious for trying to quash studies and scientists who disagreed with his narrative, assistants reported him fudging data, etc.4 -
MacLowCarbing wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »history_grrrl wrote: »@snowflake954, I just posted above some of the "Mediterranean diet" material. Somewhere else, I saw a discussion saying this originated with some guy in the 1950s observing eating patterns of people in southern Italy, but now I can't seem to find it.
Yes--I know. I believe his name was Keyes. He especially liked the way they ate in small villages. People were poor, that's why they ate less meat and more legumes. They also foraged on the hillsides and in the countryside. In the village where my MIL was born, they ate greens that you couldn't even buy in the cities. When we went there to visit, I'd taste some of these wonderful recipes--incredible stuff. One that I remember was a frittata made with wild asparagus.
Keyes research is highly suspect and there are a lot of reputable sources debunking it. For one thing it was a self-report epidemiological study, which is the least reliable type of data. He neglected to add the data of a host of other countries that simply didn't have the results he wanted-- he chose 9 out of 21. He gathered his data in Greece during Lent, when everyone eats less meat for that period for religious reasons. There are also a bunch of other factors contributing to longevity that are found in the Blue Zones that have nothing to do with diet.
Keyes was a doctor on a mission; he married himself to a narrative he was determined to cling to and push at all costs even when contrary data was presented, he was notorious for trying to quash studies and scientists who disagreed with his narrative, assistants reported him fudging data, etc.
May all be true--but don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Times were very different then. The Med diet and village eating is still health worthy. He just brought it to the attention of many.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I recently did the VA MOVE program...I just sat through it because it was the only way I could get Contrave prescribed.
I just went through that program and my pharmacist/meds appointment is about five months out.
My hope is that due to all preceding meds for obesity being patently silly they'll get around to GLP-1 by the time of my appointment.
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The pharmacist/meds doctor did give me the silly old Qsymia, and I gave it the old college try for a month and a half. It didn't affect weight or appetite, but I did have a bunch of bad side-effects. After stopping that, another few months went by.chris_in_cal wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »I recently did the VA MOVE program...I just sat through it because it was the only way I could get Contrave prescribed.
I just went through that program and my pharmacist/meds appointment is about five months out.
My hope is that due to all preceding meds for obesity being patently silly they'll get around to GLP-1 by the time of my appointment.
Now, after going on a year, I just got the call and I might (MIGHT) be getting a prescription for a GLP-1. I'll know if it's for real in a couple of weeks.
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Strongly recommend reading the new Vanity Fair article about counterfeit GLPs infiltrating even the legit supply at doctors’ offices and pharmacies. Sounds like the criminal rings and Chinese knockoff crews are heavily invested, and indications Turkish government is involved, too.
FDA is overwhelmed, and the criminals are masking the source with layers and layers of doctored paperwork.
A medical conference even had to remove a shady fellow who showed up uninvited and unregistered, hounding participants to buy his “discount” injection pens.
There was also a brief discussions of idiot people going to Botox parties and randomly taking GLP injections that turned out to be intentionally relabeled insulin. Seven nearly died.
(WTF goes to “Botox parties” in the first place? Am I that far out of the loop these days?)
Anyway, excellent in depth investigative article.
I read it yesterday via Apple News, so it just be current magazine.4 -
Wow, uh. That's a lot to unpack. I don't think I've ever heard anyone report a dietician giving that advice before. Perhaps the dietician was trying to just get people started and wanted them to feel it wasn't as challenging as it seemed.
As some others pointed out in their responses, different methods work for different people. I know that if I don't weigh, measure, do portion control, and make sure that I am in a calorie deficit, I won't make progress on my weight loss goals or worse, gain weight.
I know now that because I have weighed and measured food for a while that I know what 4 Oz. of fish and chicken looks like. I know what 2 Oz. of pasta vs.6 or 8 looks like. I also know how to quickly estimate overall calories for eating out so that I make better choices when I can't weigh and measure.
For some, weighing and measuring food is the only way to really determine why an individual isn't making progress. It's not the only way, but it does help many. But for some people those practices can be really discouraging. She may have been trying to avoid that.1 -
Just some thoughts on this...
I worked at a weight loss clinic for a long time. Everything was focused on calories and macros and tracking. And it was EFFECTIVE. But we also had groups and individual coaching that was focused on changing the relationship with food. The patients who took those classes ended up sustaining their progress for much longer than those who did not (don't remember the actual numbers, the hospital did a study).
I think relationship with food has a huge role to play in this, and we now know how toxic "diet culture" is and how much damage it has caused to so many people. I'm not talking necessarily about MFP - I'm obviously here because I think it's a great tool. But diet culture teaches people to rely on numbers and not actually pay attention to their bodies. So I think it's great that the industry is changing to more of a focus on mindful relationship with food, but then again it's starting to neglect tools (like tracking) that can be helpful for people who for whatever reason can't access or rely on those body cues.
All of this to say that I think there is room for both approaches, but as things usually go in our society, professionals tend to stick to one ideology or another. We are all all-or-nothing society (generally) and I wish professionals would just get on the same page with proper approaches to nutrition, relationship with food, and preventative health.
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