Beginning plant based

No reason to do plant based from a dietary standpoint. If it’s ethical that’s a personal choice.

Fatloss is all about consistently taking in fewer calories than you burn wether you’re taking in plants or animals or a combo of both

Soy milk, beans (canned or dried), edamame (fresh or frozen), grains (some better than others, so check labels), plant-based convenience foods (like burgers, crumbles/mince, breakfast "meats," etc.).

I've been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for 27 years and can tell you there is no need to take in 100 g of protein a day. Most people in developed countries eat way more protein than is needed by their bodies. That said, most people in those same countries eat way less than the recommended amount of fiber each day. Protein does satiate hunger, but it works even better when you pair it with some fiber. Try some of the Ezekial Bread or other sprouted grain breads (made without flour), muffins, wraps, tortillas, etc. which are made with sprouted grains. These bread products contain much more protein and fiber than regular bread and they are much lower glycemic, meaning they take longer to digest, keep you full longer and don't create that blood sugar surge that regular breads do. For instance, an Ezekial muffin with a tablespoon of peanut butter is 260 calories with 14.6 g of protein and 6.2 g of fiber. This is a low-calorie breakfast that should keep you full until lunchtime.

Pair that protein powder shake with some whole grain chips or better yet, some sliced apples or a banana to add fiber to that protein for a longer feeling of being full.

kkevelin1333 wrote: »

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, I eat dairy and a sometimes eggs. I also do have a protein powder I can incorporate. I guess I should lean into that some more.

If you are fine with eating dairy, then I'd suggest whey protein powder as an even better source than pea protein (slightly higher PDCAAS). Lower fat dairy foods are also calorie-efficient, bioavailable protein sources. I'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian (since 1974), love dairy foods, and rely heavily on them. I eat a lot of nonfat plain Greek yogurt, lowfat cottage cheese, other calorie-efficient cheeses. (I also eat a meal most days that centers traditional soy foods like tofu and tempeh, TBH.)

Eggs are also good, of course. I don't usually eat lots of eggs, typically lots fewer than a dozen a month, though this summer I've been on a hard-boiled egg kick so it might have been close to a dozen/month lately.

I do target 100g protein daily as a minimum (on maintenance calories) and usually exceed that. (For reference, I'm 5'5", 68F, active, lower 130s pounds.) It was a little lower when I was losing weight so on lower calories, 80s to mostly 90s grams probably.

I'm curious why you avoid soy foods, and why you want to be more plant-based. I'm not asking to try to force you into anything, but it might color what I mighty suggest at a more detailed level.

For example, if you're allergic to soy, that's a hard limit. But if you have other concerns about soy, there might be ways of avoiding those issues (depending on what the concerns are). I have to say, I think I could get 100g protein minimum entirely plant-based, but I'd be doing it by upping soy foods. I'm not sure I could get there without the soy foods, and still enjoy my eating routine. (I don't like protein powder or faux meats - just taste preference, nothing stronger - so I don't eat those.)

You mention "for fat loss and muscle toning" as reasons for the 100g. Getting adequate protein can be indirectly helpful for weight loss (because many people find protein filling, and it has a little higher TEF, thermic effect of food - i.e., it takes a few more calories to digest/metabolize protein than fats or carbs). However, for fat loss, calories are the direct thing to manage, when fat loss is the goal.

"Muscle toning" is a little bit definitionally squishy, but I'd interpret it to mean adding some muscle and getting to a body fat percent that lets that muscle show to the extent a person finds most aesthetically appealing. Sometimes women use that term because they don't want to get what they'd consider bulky, body-builder-like, or that sort of thing, but I have no idea where you're coming from.

Generally, the photos I've seen of "toned" women, it's about that balance of having some muscle, but with enough whole-body subcutaneous fat left that it smooths out the appearance. I'd observe that among women I know, some very fit women have quite a bit of muscle definition - obvious muscularity - right after a workout when they have a bit of a "pump". But within a short time (same day) the pump subsides, and they look what I'd call "toned", that kind of sleek, lightly-defined smooth look.

Also, it's 100% possible to lose weight or make fitness/muscle gains without eating animal protein. It just takes more attention and effort. We need bioavailable protein sources, and we need complete protein (in terms of essential amino acids, EAAs). There are plant based ways to get there. Getting there without soy foods is harder, but should still be possible . . . but not eating soy takes one of the most common bioavailable, EAA complete, and calorie-efficient sources out of the running. Eliminating that will make getting plenty of protein require even more attention and effort.

You might find some help on this site, which is a source for vegan nutrition information that's much more science-based than the average (vegan advocacy) site:

https://veganhealth.org/

The content there is primarily from registered dietitians who are themselves vegans.

You can also work to add small bits of protein to your day by looking beyond the "one big protein" you'll need in each meal, and thinking about choosing sides you enjoy that have a bit more protein. There are breads with more protein, grains with more protein, veggies with more protein, even some fruits with a little protein. In most cases, these will be less bioavailable and less EAA-complete.

Eating more protein somewhat compensates for bioavailability issues, and eating a large, wide variety of EAA-incomplete sources somewhat compensates for completeness limitations. (Learning more about choosing complementary protein sources, multiple foods that balance out EAA limitations, is even more helpful. We now understand that we don't need to combine complements at the exact same time to benefit, but it is a short time-span goal.)

This thread may help you identify veggies, etc., that have relatively more protein:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

It links to a spreadsheet that lists many, many foods in order by most protein for fewest calories. To find plant sources, you'll need to scroll past the mostly meaty/fishy things at the top, but you'll find plant sources further down. The spreadsheet does contain some indicators about protein quality, but I think less than the total insight you need to make data-based decisions.

I'm also curious about where you got the 100g goal. I think it's true that some sources suggest overblown goals, though - since I also have that target as a minimum - I'm not kneejerk questioning it. But you haven't told us your height/weight, for example, so it's hard to consider that goal in your context.

This site has a research-based "protein calculator" that suggests a protein range depending on your size, sex, some context and goals:

https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/

I haven't read the latest update to this guide, but I'm guessing it still suggests that if materially overweight, it can be helpful to use a healthy goal weight in the calculator rather than current overweight weight.

Just for clarity about motives: I don't consider a vegetarian or plant based diet to be inherently healthier than an omnivorous diet, nor do I think it has any special magic for weight loss. (I was an overweight/obese vegetarian for decades!)

It's slightly harder to get adequate nutrition on a fully plant-based diet than an omnivorous diet, which is why I can't call plant-based healthier (though I do think it can be healthy). For my tastes/preferences/beliefs, the average omnivore significantly under-consumes veggies and fruits compared with what I think are the most healthful amounts, but that's not a fault of omnivory but of those people's individual food choices.

I have what I consider sound personal reasons for being vegetarian for 50 years now, but they aren't that I think it's inherently healthier, more supportive of appropriate body weight, or even abstractly "better" for all.

Apologies for the silly-long essay!

Iamnotasenior wrote: »

I've been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for 27 years and can tell you there is no need to take in 100 g of protein a day. Most people in developed countries eat way more protein than is needed by their bodies. That said, most people in those same countries eat way less than the recommended amount of fiber each day. Protein does satiate hunger, but it works even better when you pair it with some fiber. Try some of the Ezekial Bread or other sprouted grain breads (made without flour), muffins, wraps, tortillas, etc. which are made with sprouted grains. These bread products contain much more protein and fiber than regular bread and they are much lower glycemic, meaning they take longer to digest, keep you full longer and don't create that blood sugar surge that regular breads do. For instance, an Ezekial muffin with a tablespoon of peanut butter is 260 calories with 14.6 g of protein and 6.2 g of fiber. This is a low-calorie breakfast that should keep you full until lunchtime.

Pair that protein powder shake with some whole grain chips or better yet, some sliced apples or a banana to add fiber to that protein for a longer feeling of being full.

Vegan and vegetarian advocacy sources tend to discount the idea that we need amounts of protein in that kind of range. In the US, the USDA/NIH also think someone like me doesn't need 100g of protein. Personally, having looked at recent research, I believe that USDA is recommending the minimally adequate protein a healthy person with an average lifestyle needs to avoid malnutrition, not necessarily the optimum amount of protein for everyone of all lifestyles.

The OP hasn't given us any information about her current age or size, and little about her goals or lifestyle. Personally, I'd hesitate to tell her that the 100g goal is too high, too low, or just right without knowing things like that, even though I'm obviously biased toward higher goals.

The protein calculator site I linked above - from a source that doesn't sell protein supplements, doesn't particularly boost meat-centered eating, and that's generally respected as science-based and current - suggests that for me, optimal protein would be "at least 97 grams/day. Intakes of up to 134 grams per day should be consumed to maximize muscle gain, based on limited evidence." If you're interested, the guide posted with that calculator has an analysis of why they say this, with links to the relevant research.

It's true that many people in developed countries get more protein than they strictly require, but that's not true among all subgroups. For example, there is sound research suggesting that quite a few seniors (65+) get less than optimal protein, and suffer dangerous premature muscle mass loss as a consequence.

https://www.jamda.com/article/S1525-8610(13)00326-5/fulltext

It's also statistically true that many people get inadequate fiber, but I think that's less likely to be true of vegetarians/vegans, and even less likely for the subset of those who eat mostly whole foods. Most days, I'm getting around 35-40g of fiber or more, and I'm not religious about whole foods, although those probably dominate in my eating.

I'd also observe that just because it's common for people to get more than adequate protein and too little fiber, OP (or you, or I) is an individual who may or may not be exemplars of those statistical trends. In particular, most people in developed countries aren't vegetarian, let alone vegan.

I do like the Ezekiel bread products, too; but will stick with my breakfast of Ezekiel pita with peanut butter and a cup of kefir on the side, for 381 calories, 25g of protein, and 7g fiber. That's a good start toward my 100g daily minimum.

Best wishes to you both!

I give you credit for trying to educate yourself in respect to your health but let me just say that dietary cholesterol is pretty much benign and it's actually a vital nutrient which the body, every cell actually produce in the absence of a dietary source. The USDA in 2015 with reluctance had to admit that dietary cholesterol was no longer a "nutrient of concern" which was in direct conflict with their ideology and ethos but it would have been more damaging to them if they didn't admit that fact, which they never believed and still don't and continue to promote the high carb low fat dietary advice with even less emphasis on nutrients from animal sources, they just can't help themselves, and the only saving grace is that it's so obvious. imo.

Also, most non communicable disease that have been on the rise for many decades now which include heart disease, diabetes, childhood fatty liver, hypertension, IR and obesity as examples can and is associated with the over consumption of "ultra processed foods" which are primarily comprised of refined carbohydrates, sugars and seed oils which are all plant based and yes there are animal foods in UPF so it's a little more complicated than meat bad, plants good and the main mechanism that actually is the primary source of the 4 trillion health bill is pretty much a chronic inflammation problem which is what UPF do, that's their job, and it's working very well with no end in sight.

Hopefully you continue to educate yourself and I would suggest broadening your inquiry to include information that is not just in documentaries, most are just stories (dramas) to convince the audience of a particular belief and unfortunately the plant based "documentaries" know there audience very well and appeal mostly on the emotional level which effect one gender more than the other and of course the old saying goes "science doesn't care about your feelings" Anyway, take care and hope you achieve your goals regardless of the course you take.

tomcustombuilder wrote: »

Iamnotasenior wrote: »

I've been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for 27 years and can tell you there is no need to take in 100 g of protein a day.

For many, 100 G would be way too little

Medical guidelines for recommended protein intake do vary by age and gender. See the bottom of this article for conditions caused by long term intake of too much protein which can include cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322825

Iamnotasenior wrote: »

tomcustombuilder wrote: »

Iamnotasenior wrote: »

I've been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for 27 years and can tell you there is no need to take in 100 g of protein a day.

For many, 100 G would be way too little

Medical guidelines for recommended protein intake do vary by age and gender. See the bottom of this article for conditions caused by long term intake of too much protein which can include cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322825

Absolutely. That's why I recommended the research-based calculator link I did, when we didn't know OP's size.

I'd say the recommendations in that article you linked suggest that 100g protein daily isn't crazy high for an average-sized active woman, or an aging one.

The amount recommended for various categories at that link is:

0.8 g/kg for adults with minimal physical activity
1.2-1.6g/kg for older adults
1.3g/kg for moderately active people
1.6g/kg for intensely active people

with a maximum (risk/warning level, basically) of 2g/kg for most people, but up to 3.5g/kg for athletes.

The OP here says she weighs 176 pounds, which is 80 kg. Those values in terms of her weight would be:

0.8 g/kg = 64g
1.2 g/kg = 96g
1.3 g/kg = 104g
1.6 g/kg = 128g
2.0 g/kg = 160g
3.5 g/kg = 280g

It doesn't sound like OP is an "elite athlete", so the 2.0 g/kg upper (warning) value would probably apply to her, or maybe a bit more because she's possibly more active than the average person. Based on her self-description, it seems likely she's at least "moderately active" (or planning to be), so 1.3 g/kg would be recommended, or a bit more toward 1.6 g/kg if her activity counts as more than moderate, or if she's an older adult (though her photo looks significantly younger than I am).

So the article you linked would recommend 104 to maybe 128g of protein daily, with a warning at 160g (as a consistent intake). For her size and goals as I understand them, the research-based calculator I linked suggested a range of at least 96g (optimal) to 128g ("to maximize muscle gain, based on limited evidence"). That seems reasonably consistent.

Yes, consistently eating too much protein has health risks, and the article you linked has a good run-down of those concerns. But it also seems to suggest that 100g is potentially a reasonable goal for her, rather than that "there is no need to take in 100 g of protein a day".

P.S.

tomcustombuilder wrote: »

Iamnotasenior wrote: »

tomcustombuilder wrote: »

Iamnotasenior wrote: »

I've been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for 27 years and can tell you there is no need to take in 100 g of protein a day.

For many, 100 G would be way too little

Medical guidelines for recommended protein intake do vary by age and gender. See the bottom of this article for conditions caused by long term intake of too much protein which can include cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322825

Yes, That is the normal amount no real need to go higher however some people eat way below that amount, sometimes for good reason. Reason being that if you"re overweight 1G per lb is too much. Figure protein by your lean weight.

If someone is getting insufficient protein based on their lean weight then it's a problem and many fall into that category. .7-1G is the sweet spot.

From reading past discussions, I'm pretty sure Tom's talking weight in pounds here. OP is a bit into the overweight BMI range right now. (That isn't a definitive sign she's actually at an unhealthy or too-high weight: BMI is at best a screener for individuals.)

But if we looked at those numbers he suggested and make a wild guess that the middle of the normal BMI range would be a good weight at 5'7", BMI 21.7 would be around 138.5 pounds. Therefore, 0.7g per pound would be 97g, and 1g per pound obviously 138.5g, so still in the same general ballpark as those other sources, your article and my calculator, both suggest.