Recent Food Recalls - First the Canteloupe, now ground beef
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Thanks BrewerGeorge. I was too wimpy to say what you are saying but it is true. We would not need MFP because most of us would be starving. Organic is a nice concept but it just isn't possible if you want everyone to have food.0
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Organic....... I grow some of my own, but now with smaller gardens people dont, I also get my veg from the fruit and veg market, where farms and shops all get theirs! And regarding meat, I do try and only get organic, yes it is more expensive, but I would rather put my money in my childrens stomaches not for, drinking and smoking or clothes.... It can be done and you also use less packaging....
Supermarkets are the worst places to shop... But that is just my oppinion.... xx
I am looking for some youtube fims about battery animals... To show my children... I know mean huh... xx0 -
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So yes, local and sustainable could feed us all.
Read the wiki article I linked.
Wiki articles are not credible.
Besides, as someone else has stated, most of the people that are starving in other countries is due to political reasons, not because there is no food.
If everyone started buy meats locally and buying into CSA memberships, more of these farms would pop up in the area and this would happen all over the country and we would not be relying on these factory farms that are supposed to be supplying us with safe foods and thus food borne illnesses would dramatically cut out and go down.0 -
Thanks BrewerGeorge. I was too wimpy to say what you are saying but it is true. We would not need MFP because most of us would be starving. Organic is a nice concept but it just isn't possible if you want everyone to have food.
No one is saying Organic. I did not say that. I said Local and Sustainable agriculture. It may be organic or not, but it is local, doesn't have to be shipped all over the place and is grown to its ripened and most nutritious potential.
I belong to 2 CSA's. One is organic and the other one is not. Both have supplied me with fabulous fresh vegetables and some meats and eggs.0 -
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Wiki articles are not credible.Besides, as someone else has stated, most of the people that are starving in other countries is due to political reasons, not because there is no food.If everyone started buy meats locally and buying into CSA memberships, more of these farms would pop up in the area and this would happen all over the country and we would not be relying on these factory farms that are supposed to be supplying us with safe foods and thus food borne illnesses would dramatically cut out and go down.
I bet you think you're "close" to your food, but it's obvious that you have no real idea how much acreage is required to feed a person for a year. As an example, if you ate nothing all year but corn the average Iowa acre could feed 30 people using modern techniques. In 1930, with tractors and inorganic fertilzers that same acre fed about 5 people. Take those away to simulate the 3rd world and we're down to 2 people per acre. Fresh vegetables and meats take a lot more space than that. With almost 7 billion people in the world now, there's barely enough arable land physically on the surface of the planet to feed everyone - even using modern methods. Going back to traditional methods would force us to cull about half the world's population.
I'm going to stop giving factual arguments because I don't really think you're listening to them anyway..maybe somebody else is.
Look, I'm not saying it's not better for you or me to eat the way you've been talking about if you prefer it. It tastes better, it's fresher, cleaner, lower carbon footprint, whatever you like about it. But don't fool yourself into thinking that traditionally farmed food is somehow morally "better" or in fact even possible for the majority of the planet. A too-large percentage of the world is still worrying about going to bed hungry to be bothered about where or how some food was produced. Being able to indulge preferences like yours for local, traditional foods is one of the benefits of living in a wealthy society. Accept and embrace that and stop trying to assign a moral superiority to what is nothing more than personal preference . Most of the world can't afford that preference.0 -
George, i feel you could use this emoticon right about now...0
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Organic methods CAN feed the world, but to do so would require much higher labor costs and more complicated economics because the best way to grow orgainc is by planting a variety of crops in the same area, utilizing integrated pest managment and producing compost from waste and crop residue. Ironically, these methods are better suited to poor countries with limited capital and low labor costs than they are in industrialized countries.0
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Also, organic or not, grind your own meat and it won't be a problem.0
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Wiki articles are not credible.Besides, as someone else has stated, most of the people that are starving in other countries is due to political reasons, not because there is no food.If everyone started buy meats locally and buying into CSA memberships, more of these farms would pop up in the area and this would happen all over the country and we would not be relying on these factory farms that are supposed to be supplying us with safe foods and thus food borne illnesses would dramatically cut out and go down.
I bet you think you're "close" to your food, but it's obvious that you have no real idea how much acreage is required to feed a person for a year. As an example, if you ate nothing all year but corn the average Iowa acre could feed 30 people using modern techniques. In 1930, with tractors and inorganic fertilzers that same acre fed about 5 people. Take those away to simulate the 3rd world and we're down to 2 people per acre. Fresh vegetables and meats take a lot more space than that. With almost 7 billion people in the world now, there's barely enough arable land physically on the surface of the planet to feed everyone - even using modern methods. Going back to traditional methods would force us to cull about half the world's population.
I'm going to stop giving factual arguments because I don't really think you're listening to them anyway..maybe somebody else is.
Look, I'm not saying it's not better for you or me to eat the way you've been talking about if you prefer it. It tastes better, it's fresher, cleaner, lower carbon footprint, whatever you like about it. But don't fool yourself into thinking that traditionally farmed food is somehow morally "better" or in fact even possible for the majority of the planet. A too-large percentage of the world is still worrying about going to bed hungry to be bothered about where or how some food was produced. Being able to indulge preferences like yours for local, traditional foods is one of the benefits of living in a wealthy society. Accept and embrace that and stop trying to assign a moral superiority to what is nothing more than personal preference . Most of the world can't afford that preference.
I am not wrong in my thinking and I am not the only one that feels this way. Most of the hunger in this world is due to political conflicts.
These governmental organizations will have you believe that there is just not enough food in the world so they can continue to push their factory and GMO farming on you and others.
I am not buying it and YES, I know where my food comes from as I help to go pick it and harvest it in exchange for having 1/2 price CSA memberships.
And as for those Wicki articles, ANYONE can write and submit Wicki articles, so they are of barely any fact to me and most others.0 -
Armed conflicts frequently lead to the destruction of food systems. Often, warring parties manipulate starvation as a deliberate tactic, using their control over access to food to attract and reward friends and humble and punish enemies. Such conflicts are “food wars,” not only because hunger is used as a weapon but also because food insecurity is both an effect and cause of conflict. In February 2004, United Nations agencies calculated that over 45 million people in developing countries experiencing or recovering from conflict were in need of food and other emergency humanitarian assistance (see table). More than 80 percent
of those affected lived in Sub-Saharan Africa.
http://www.ifpri.org/sites/default/files/publications/ib26.pdf0 -
Organic....... I grow some of my own, but now with smaller gardens people dont, I also get my veg from the fruit and veg market, where farms and shops all get theirs! And regarding meat, I do try and only get organic, yes it is more expensive, but I would rather put my money in my childrens stomaches not for, drinking and smoking or clothes.... It can be done and you also use less packaging....
Supermarkets are the worst places to shop... But that is just my oppinion.... xx
I am looking for some youtube fims about battery animals... To show my children... I know mean huh... xx
Peta.com has some crazy sad videos :frown:0 -
I am not wrong in my thinking and I am not the only one that feels this way. Most of the hunger in this world is due to political conflicts.
These governmental organizations will have you believe that there is just not enough food in the world so they can continue to push their factory and GMO farming on you and others.
...
And as for those Wicki articles, ANYONE can write and submit Wicki articles, so they are of barely any fact to me and most others.
The political hunger you keep bringing up is what we call a straw man argument. You've brought up the subject so you can argue it with yourself. I'm talking about whether traditional farming can feed the world's population. The current state of world hunger and how it's influenced by politics doesn't matter at all to that discussion. That's because the world currently - USING MODERN TECHNIQUES - produces enough food to feed itself. The fact that this food exists in the first place makes it possible for warlords to destroy or misdirect it and cause current hunger.
If not for the rest of the world using modern techniques and producing as much as 300 bushels of corn per acre (with similar largess in other crops), instead of the 12 bushels per acre that is average with 19th century methods you're talking about, warlords would have no food to steal. Americans and Europeans would be spending significant portions of their income on food, Asia and Africa would be starving to death, and there sure as hell wouldn't be much need for sites like MFP.
As for the wikipedia article I quoted about Norman Borlaug, there are FIFTY-SIX primary sources listed at the bottom. I'd list them all, but that would be rude.
Here's just one:
http://reason.com/archives/2000/04/01/billions-served-norman-borlaug
That fact that you won't read THAT either tells me it's time to stop wasting my time talking about this with you. You're obviously going to believe what your feelings tell you to believe in spite of any silly facts I may put forth. Have fun, and I sincerely hope that none of us ever have to experience the true tragedy that would result from your food fantasies.
I'm out.0 -
Watch the documentaries Fresh and Food Inc and you'll see why US food production is DANGEROUS, and farmers need subsidies to survive, those big dirty corporate greed tanks are screwing you people and the farmers forcing you to eat *kitten* food. Australia's not far behind by the way! While the makers of those docs have an axe to grind you can't deny the visual evidence. The fact is the further food needs to be transported, the more processing that takes place, the more it is handled, the greater the risk of contamination. Find local producers for seasonal fruit and vege, and try to find a local meat supplier to minimise the risk of bad food. I'm lucky enough to grow a lot of my own fruit and vege and have a local butcher who processes locally slaughtered beef and chicken.0
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I am not wrong in my thinking and I am not the only one that feels this way. Most of the hunger in this world is due to political conflicts.
These governmental organizations will have you believe that there is just not enough food in the world so they can continue to push their factory and GMO farming on you and others.
...
And as for those Wicki articles, ANYONE can write and submit Wicki articles, so they are of barely any fact to me and most others.
The political hunger you keep bringing up is what we call a straw man argument. You've brought up the subject so you can argue it with yourself. I'm talking about whether traditional farming can feed the world's population. The current state of world hunger and how it's influenced by politics doesn't matter at all to that discussion. That's because the world currently - USING MODERN TECHNIQUES - produces enough food to feed itself. The fact that this food exists in the first place makes it possible for warlords to destroy or misdirect it and cause current hunger.
If not for the rest of the world using modern techniques and producing as much as 300 bushels of corn per acre (with similar largess in other crops), instead of the 12 bushels per acre that is average with 19th century methods you're talking about, warlords would have no food to steal. Americans and Europeans would be spending significant portions of their income on food, Asia and Africa would be starving to death, and there sure as hell wouldn't be much need for sites like MFP.
As for the wikipedia article I quoted about Norman Borlaug, there are FIFTY-SIX primary sources listed at the bottom. I'd list them all, but that would be rude.
Here's just one:
http://reason.com/archives/2000/04/01/billions-served-norman-borlaug
That fact that you won't read THAT either tells me it's time to stop wasting my time talking about this with you. You're obviously going to believe what your feelings tell you to believe in spite of any silly facts I may put forth. Have fun, and I sincerely hope that none of us ever have to experience the true tragedy that would result from your food fantasies.
I'm out.
I read through these and everything in them promotes factory and industrialized farming. YES traditional farming could feed the world as it did previously.
I didn't bring up the other argument. It was already brought up previously by another poster.0
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