Carnivore or Keto
MartMan92_
Posts: 7 Member
Hello, I wanted to see if anyone had a preference to carnivore or keto? Give me pro and cons if you can plz 💪🏻
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Both are effective at normalizing blood glucose levels and dealing with metabolic dysfunction and why they're primarily used medically for most non communicable diseases and weight loss being a basic side effect of the hormonal regulation that normally takes place in that particular population.
If your asking because it's been popularized through social media as a weight loss approach and that is your only or main goal, then talking with some experience on the topic, I would only say be prepared to find it a very challenging endeavor where most fair miserably, but of course your results may vary and also keep in mind that a calorie deficit is the mediator of weight loss and not a particular diet.
Alternatively a whole food diet focusing on natural animal proteins, nuts, seeds, vegetables and minimal carbohydrates of no more than 130 g's or so should work almost as well as far as weight loss, with much less restriction and grief and believe me this is even too restrictive for most people. Good luck with what ever your goals are.
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neanderthin wrote: »Both are effective at normalizing blood glucose levels and dealing with metabolic dysfunction and why they're primarily used medically for most non communicable diseases and weight loss being a basic side effect of the hormonal regulation that normally takes place in that particular population.
If your asking because it's been popularized through social media as a weight loss approach and that is your only or main goal, then talking with some experience on the topic, I would only say be prepared to find it a very challenging endeavor where most fair miserably, but of course your results may vary and also keep in mind that a calorie deficit is the mediator of weight loss and not a particular diet.
Alternatively a whole food diet focusing on natural animal proteins, nuts, seeds, vegetables and minimal carbohydrates of no more than 130 g's or so should work almost as well as far as weight loss, with much less restriction and grief and believe me this is even too restrictive for most people. Good luck with what ever your goals are.
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Bravo @neanderthin
My dietary (notice I didn’t say “diet”. Diet implies temporary) plan is to keep things as simple as possible.
I’d struggle badly trying to adhere to something with a lot of rules. That may work for you. If so, awesome!
But my experience here is that new users get so mired down in what they can and can’t do on highly restrictive plans, they lose track of the ultimate goal to simply lose weight. The ones who come touting a particular diet plan seem to be the first to fall by the wayside.
It’s the ones who get a good grounding in simply losing, and then start to look for plans to customize to their needs, they’re the ones who stick.0 -
@springlering62
Consuming just animal protein and their fats until your full and satisfied and then just getting on with the rest of their day is about as simple as it gets, there are no other requirements at all, no other food that are needed and most carnivores generally eat twice a day. From all the people that I've listened to about their person journey this is considered one of the main benefits and it basically liberated these people from the daily grind that they were engaged in all their lives worrying about what they put in their mouths in the right quantities with most consuming the SAD diet which they've always had a poor relationship with and try as they might, just can't get away from, so I guess it's perspective. Most of these people had gone down the counting calorie route and again disproportionally speaking a large percentage have come from a vegetarian and vegan background, which I find interesting, basically these people have tried just about every diet trying to find a solution,
I'll just mention once more that keto/ketovore/carnivore diets are what people with a lot of metabolic dysfunction where everyday is a depressing, low energy existence, with a myriad of health issues like insulin resistance, diabetes, mental fog and cognitive issues, depression, fatty liver, PCOS, IBS, Gerd, obesity etc with most on more medications than can be imagined, this is the real demographic that are successful with these diet protocol's because of the vast improvements in their health that begins to happen within a few days that they've never experience before in their lives. If someone is just giving these diet a go because they heard they're good at losing weight, well failure is pretty much a given and like you said, the complaint is that it's too restrictive, so like I said, that's a perspective thing. Personally I mostly advocate for a whole food med type diet which is still a big ask for the general population.....not enough yummy processed foods that people have come to worship it seems.
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Agree @neanderthin but a lot of the people who come here touting it are gung ho without the considerable research - and experience- you’ve put into it.
To commit to Keto is truly a “Way of Eating”, not a lark because you saw some influencer doing it.
They throw themselves into it without really understanding, or grabbing a bunch of highly processed “keto” labeled products which may or may not be keto.
And after a few weeks, they’re exhausted, and move on to the Next Great Thing.
IMHO, start simple and get the basics down before investing in a super specific diet plan that may suit you down to the ground.
I read an article in a British paper a few minutes ago by some woman screaming the benefits of the “Simple Human Diet”. The list of rules was almost as ridiculous as that 30 Hard diet. She was going on and on about how she planned to do this for the rest of her life.
People are attracted to diets they perceive have rules. Self punishment should reap better rewards, right? Shame on me for putting on weight.
Not saying that’s what keto is at all, but that’s the perception and for whatever reason, it’s attractive to people because of it.
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The "real demographic", the people actually trying to figure out their own health and not just looking to lose weight don't just fall into keto, keto/carnivore find them. It's the destination where most non communicable diseases are addressed and like the saying, all roads lead to Rome, all the research leads to low carb of some description, it really does.
All the Doctors and I do mean all the Doctors that have left hospitals and decided to either join or start up either on their own or with a group to open a clinic that deals in metabolic health issues is because they could no longer in good faith and conscience continue to do harm and be obligated, legally, to continue the flow of medication and then continue to see patience get worse, that should and thankfully does go against the basic human instincts of doing no harm as a Doctor, which is fundamental. All these metabolic clinics use keto and low carb diets, and the people that take their own health into their own hands do find themselves eventually researching keto, so it's just not a coincidence that doctors and the general public come to the same conclusions.
So yeah, keto shouldn't and I've said that here more than once, should not be used just to lose weight, it's actually dangerous if someone is one medication, and why it's part of the learning curve when someone is on that personal journey to improve their health and not just to lose weight. Unfortunately a large percentage of people are always looking for that quick fix or magic pill instead of doing the hard work and keto being the most popular diet and promoted in social media the most is going to attract those people and like most quick fixes and magic pills, they don't work and subsequently keto gets a bad wrap, and everyone like a good ol trashing on line, don't they, lol. I'll continue to support it and hopefully add some nuance that generally is lacking for the most part, it's all I can do really if i want help people, which is a main driver of mine simply because I would rather people not go through the journey I did to find long lasting solutions to my personal health problems.
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neanderthin wrote: »@springlering62
Consuming just animal protein and their fats until your full and satisfied and then just getting on with the rest of their day is about as simple as it gets, there are no other requirements at all, no other food that are needed and most carnivores generally eat twice a day. From all the people that I've listened to about their person journey this is considered one of the main benefits and it basically liberated these people from the daily grind that they were engaged in all their lives worrying about what they put in their mouths in the right quantities with most consuming the SAD diet which they've always had a poor relationship with and try as they might, just can't get away from, so I guess it's perspective. Most of these people had gone down the counting calorie route and again disproportionally speaking a large percentage have come from a vegetarian and vegan background, which I find interesting, basically these people have tried just about every diet trying to find a solution,
I'll just mention once more that keto/ketovore/carnivore diets are what people with a lot of metabolic dysfunction where everyday is a depressing, low energy existence, with a myriad of health issues like insulin resistance, diabetes, mental fog and cognitive issues, depression, fatty liver, PCOS, IBS, Gerd, obesity etc with most on more medications than can be imagined, this is the real demographic that are successful with these diet protocol's because of the vast improvements in their health that begins to happen within a few days that they've never experience before in their lives. If someone is just giving these diet a go because they heard they're good at losing weight, well failure is pretty much a given and like you said, the complaint is that it's too restrictive, so like I said, that's a perspective thing. Personally I mostly advocate for a whole food med type diet which is still a big ask for the general population.....not enough yummy processed foods that people have come to worship it seems.neanderthin wrote: »The "real demographic", the people actually trying to figure out their own health and not just looking to lose weight don't just fall into keto, keto/carnivore find them. It's the destination where most non communicable diseases are addressed and like the saying, all roads lead to Rome, all the research leads to low carb of some description, it really does.
All the Doctors and I do mean all the Doctors that have left hospitals and decided to either join or start up either on their own or with a group to open a clinic that deals in metabolic health issues is because they could no longer in good faith and conscience continue to do harm and be obligated, legally, to continue the flow of medication and then continue to see patience get worse, that should and thankfully does go against the basic human instincts of doing no harm as a Doctor, which is fundamental. All these metabolic clinics use keto and low carb diets, and the people that take their own health into their own hands do find themselves eventually researching keto, so it's just not a coincidence that doctors and the general public come to the same conclusions.
So yeah, keto shouldn't and I've said that here more than once, should not be used just to lose weight, it's actually dangerous if someone is one medication, and why it's part of the learning curve when someone is on that personal journey to improve their health and not just to lose weight. Unfortunately a large percentage of people are always looking for that quick fix or magic pill instead of doing the hard work and keto being the most popular diet and promoted in social media the most is going to attract those people and like most quick fixes and magic pills, they don't work and subsequently keto gets a bad wrap, and everyone like a good ol trashing on line, don't they, lol. I'll continue to support it and hopefully add some nuance that generally is lacking for the most part, it's all I can do really if i want help people, which is a main driver of mine simply because I would rather people not go through the journey I did to find long lasting solutions to my personal health problems.
Maybe the reason some people push back against keto is due to statements full of holes, such as several in the quoted posts.
"Consuming just animal protein and their fats until your full and satisfied and then just getting on with the rest of their day is about as simple as it gets, there are no other requirements at all, no other food that are needed and most carnivores generally eat twice a day."
Fantastic, a diet devoid of all the essential micro nutrients in fruit, veggies, and carbs is now healthy and smart?
"Most of these people had gone down the counting calorie route and again disproportionally speaking a large percentage have come from a vegetarian and vegan background, which I find interesting, basically these people have tried just about every diet trying to find a solution,"
If in fact it's true that a disproportunate number of people moving to keto have come from either vegan or vegatarian diets, it would seem to me that those people all prefer more extreme diets, not that a more carb dense diet makes life bad. Where the keto follower would likely have more trouble finding more micro nutrients in their diet, the vegan and vegatarian diet would likely have more trouble finding adequate protein in their diet. This does not make one more complicated than the other IMHO.
"I'll just mention once more that keto/ketovore/carnivore diets are what people with a lot of metabolic dysfunction where everyday is a depressing, low energy existence, with a myriad of health issues like insulin resistance, diabetes, mental fog and cognitive issues, depression, fatty liver, PCOS, IBS, Gerd, obesity etc with most on more medications than can be imagined, this is the real demographic that are successful with these diet protocol's because of the vast improvements in their health that begins to happen within a few days that they've never experience before in their lives."
Though keto or low carb diets are helpful in some of these areas for many, it is among "many" that had horrible diets prior to going low carb. Most of the same claims could be made for simply adhering to any more structured and proper eating style, as long as appropriate energy balance is maintained. Keto fog or Keto flu are common terms used for people trying it initially, and there are secret "remedies" to try to avoid it. Is that easy? As for GERD, once again many people sugger more with higher fat diets of any kind.
I won't even address the claims of cognitive improvements, depression, fatty liver, obesity, etc.... anyone that has following the diet and fitness industry knows many of these things show little if any improvement ever regardless of diet style unless energy balance is maintained.
"All these metabolic clinics use keto and low carb diets, and the people that take their own health into their own hands do find themselves eventually researching keto, so it's just not a coincidence that doctors and the general public come to the same conclusions."
I'll openly disagree with both this and the statement above it. Many, many doctors promote simply sensible eating habits and calorie control. Quite a few of the "secret recipe" doctors on their own do promote more radical diets, including vegatarian, vegan, and keto. Why? Well they have to find an easy secret to the secret recipe.
I'm not against any way of eating that works for people and keeps them healthy. But promoting ANY eating plan as the magic bullet that all will find one days is just not reality based. Doing so ignores the fact that humans can be much the same in some aspects but very different in others. What works for me might not work for you, but it makes neither of us wrong. It simply shows that people differ in what works best for them in certain circumstances.3 -
Thanks for the response robert, lots there to discuss. let me ask first which essential micronutrients as you say, are completely void in the carnivore diet?0
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I'm not even going to attempt to list all the micronutrients, antioxidants, and fibers associated with plant based foods and not meat. Among the top is vitamin C, and any person that promotes any diet as complete when it's well known not to be the case should question why they would twist what is known to suit their point of view.
To use the term "devoid" in my quote was towards the edges of reality, but "devoid in sufficient quantities" would have been much more centrist. In either case just as only animal proteins provide complete proteings, eating only animal proteins leaves voids in a number of areas as well.0 -
I see, ok, no problem, I was just asking.
Just to let you know, there's about 25-30 milligrams of Vit C in 100g's of beef liver which when incorporated and consumed once a week is enough to maintain adequate amounts and I've seen no data where people on carnivore experience scurvy and if you have I certainly would be appreciative of that data.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »I see, ok, no problem, I was just asking.
Just to let you know, there's about 25-30 milligrams of Vit C in 100g's of beef liver which when incorporated and consumed once a week is enough to maintain adequate amounts and I've seen no data where people on carnivore experience scurvy and if you have I certainly would be appreciative of that data.
I'm aware there is Vitamin C in some meats. Almost all organ meats, brain, and a few other parts actually contain more Vit C than liver does IIRC. A few seafoods contain it as well. And though I will gladly concede that most of us will survive just fine without RDA's of all nutrients, that 25-40 mg only brings me to about 1/3 of RDA. So in this case about 12-13 ounces of beef liver per day would get me to the RDA levels.
Silly me, I thought eating a grapefruit, orange, some brocolli, or brussel sprouts might be easier and more sustainable.
So the statement made of "Consuming just animal protein and their fats until your full and satisfied and then just getting on with the rest of their day is about as simple as it gets, there are no other requirements at all, no other food that are needed and most carnivores generally eat twice a day." already needs to be modified if you want to meet anything close to standard nutritional goals.
As for scurvey, I found examples on my first search.
https://cdn-uat.mdedge.com/files/s3fs-public/Document/September-2017/066010039.pdf
This was on the third search return on the page. The first two claimed that such a thing can't happen. One was from Instagram, and the other from Carnivore Diet website. Scrolling down, it seems for every instance where a medical professional gives unbiased recommendations, another with a meat based diet bias claims you can't get scurvy, despite the evidence of people who have had it happen.1 -
robertw486 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »I see, ok, no problem, I was just asking.
Just to let you know, there's about 25-30 milligrams of Vit C in 100g's of beef liver which when incorporated and consumed once a week is enough to maintain adequate amounts and I've seen no data where people on carnivore experience scurvy and if you have I certainly would be appreciative of that data.
I'm aware there is Vitamin C in some meats. Almost all organ meats, brain, and a few other parts actually contain more Vit C than liver does IIRC. A few seafoods contain it as well. And though I will gladly concede that most of us will survive just fine without RDA's of all nutrients, that 25-40 mg only brings me to about 1/3 of RDA. So in this case about 12-13 ounces of beef liver per day would get me to the RDA levels.
Silly me, I thought eating a grapefruit, orange, some brocolli, or brussel sprouts might be easier and more sustainable.
So the statement made of "Consuming just animal protein and their fats until your full and satisfied and then just getting on with the rest of their day is about as simple as it gets, there are no other requirements at all, no other food that are needed and most carnivores generally eat twice a day." already needs to be modified if you want to meet anything close to standard nutritional goals.
As for scurvey, I found examples on my first search.
https://cdn-uat.mdedge.com/files/s3fs-public/Document/September-2017/066010039.pdf
This was on the third search return on the page. The first two claimed that such a thing can't happen. One was from Instagram, and the other from Carnivore Diet website. Scrolling down, it seems for every instance where a medical professional gives unbiased recommendations, another with a meat based diet bias claims you can't get scurvy, despite the evidence of people who have had it happen.
You found one, good catch and thanks, an interesting case for sure. Not your average American. Basically a 54 year old underweight male with virtually no health history that never was in contact with a Doctor until recently when he was finally concerned with his health seeks medical treatment for some pretty inflammatory lower limb pain. He was basically a hermit living in rural Appalachia consuming from what they say a diet only consisting of a canned meat product called Bunker Hill canned beef in gravy with minimal fresh fruits and vegetables and apparently a big smoker as well. His health was pretty bad when he first contacted any health authorities and no doubt full of inflammation, which was a diagnosis and of course vit C being an anti-inflammatory which he was asked to take would be a no brainer in this context. Unfortunately 2 years later he ended back in the hospital with worsening conditions and apparently he was still eating the same canned meat and stopped taking vit C. This case does show that although very rare, it does happen, thanks again.1 -
Didn't James Blunt get scurvy from a carnivore diet?0
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Alatariel75 wrote: »Didn't James Blunt get scurvy from a carnivore diet?
He’s an outlier for pretty much everything, lol.
Btw, his interview on Top Gear was golden. What an interesting guy. Seriously.0 -
springlering62 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Didn't James Blunt get scurvy from a carnivore diet?
He’s an outlier for pretty much everything, lol.
Btw, his interview on Top Gear was golden. What an interesting guy. Seriously.
He is hilarious. He's so self deprecating, and has a wonderful sense of humour!0 -
MartMan92_ wrote: »Hello, I wanted to see if anyone had a preference to carnivore or keto? Give me pro and cons if you can plz 💪🏻
I’m enjoying the considered debate on here, but just to go back to the original post: neither. For me personally I eat high protein and high carb with lower fats. I find that works well for me, gives me the energy I need, doesn’t flare my GI issues (I’m not great with fat), and most importantly - I enjoy it. Which makes it more sustainable. I’ve never tried keto or carnivore but I was vegetarian for 15 years, then pescatarian for a few more before reintroducing free range meat to my diet. None of these patterns of eating were better or worse for weight management, but I personally find a varied diet works better for me healthwise.3 -
Yes to what Spring said above about trendiness and hype. That's not the fault of keto or carnivore inherently, but it's what's happening now culturally. I also agree with the general thrust of Robert's first post on the thread.
I have nothing against keto or carnivore for those it suits, and I'm willing to believe those may have health benefits in at least certain forms of the practices (maybe forms that at least avoid the highly-processed "keto food products" route
?)
I'm more skeptical that either one is the the only route to good health, or that taking responsibility for one's own health inevitably leads to keto.
Speaking personally and individually, either low carb or keto would make me miserable, and cause severe digestive distress for probably at least a couple of weeks because of adaptation needs at this point. I'd get past the adaptation problem, I'm sure. But one of the reasons I eat they way I do is that I never much liked meat in the first place. I tried very low carb, and that didn't end well, either. Carnivore or keto are not going to be good candidate eating styles for me.
On top of that, while I never had all the "metabolic syndrome" symptoms, I not surprisingly had most of them when I was class 1 obese. (More surprising that I didn't have high blood sugar, honestly.) Even back then, my eating style was not the SAD - really never has been. I have zero of those metabolic syndrome symptoms now, and am not on any meds to get to that place. My eating is almost as far from keto or carnivore as a person can get, and includes about the same range of foods it has for decades, just in different portions/frequencies.
Keto or carnivore can be great for some people like Neanderthin, no argument.
If either keto or carnivore suit the OP, I support him, in the same way I'd support any reasonably health-promoting route that works for a person. I don't hype my exact way of eating as ideal for everyone, because it isn't. (I'd find it an arrogant position to take if I said otherwise, honestly.) I don't think there's "one true way" that's best for everyone. Humans are adaptive omnivores.
I don't need to believe my personal eating style is best for everyone in order to understand that it's best for me. Even if there's some single eating style that's theoretically universally the very best - which I'm skeptical about - it's not practical or helpful if a person can't/won't stick to it. I think good solutions are individual, and that there are quite a few variations that will deliver pretty good results.
If I had advice for the OP, it would be to figure out the most personally enjoyable, practical, affordable, reasonably healthful way of eating for him, and do that. If he thinks that's keto or carnivore, great. If he's chasing keto or carnivore because of the current hype, then maybe not. I don't think other people's pros/cons have much relevance to the n=1 experiment.
P.S. Just a quibble: Some plant sources have complete and quite bioavailable protein, but admittedly not many. Protein complementing works fine, even in a somewhat loose form. Though I'm not fully plant-based myself, I come close enough to assert that getting adequate protein entirely from plants would take some attention, but I wouldn't call it a problem. I'd say micronutrients are more challenging for someone eating only or mostly plants, actually: B12 the biggest issue, but not the only one.
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springlering62 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Didn't James Blunt get scurvy from a carnivore diet?
He’s an outlier for pretty much everything, lol.
Btw, his interview on Top Gear was golden. What an interesting guy. Seriously.
Not sure if your familiar with the MMA but Georges St Pierre, Chad Mendes, Alejandra Lara, they were carnivore and the wildlife guy Bear Grylls who switched from vegan to carnivore. Actually there's quite a few world class athletes who use carnivore. Zack Bitter who was a 100 mile ultramarathon world record holder incorporated the carnivore diet, Peter Jacobs from Australia who was a triathlete and won the world Iron Man championship..... 0 -
@robertw486I'm aware there is Vitamin C in some meats. Almost all organ meats, brain, and a few other parts actually contain more Vit C than liver does IIRC. A few seafoods contain it as well. And though I will gladly concede that most of us will survive just fine without RDA's of all nutrients, that 25-40 mg only brings me to about 1/3 of RDA. So in this case about 12-13 ounces of beef liver per day would get me to the RDA levels.
I didn't address this, sorry about that. Only 10mg's of vit C is necessary to protect against scurvy. Also it appears from the anecdotal evidence from my research most carnivores, males mostly and some females are eating about 2 lbs of animal protein a day and so that basically covers the scurvy concerns, imo.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »keto/ketovore/carnivore diets are what people with a lot of metabolic dysfunction where everyday is a depressing, low energy existence, with a myriad of health issues like insulin resistance, diabetes, mental fog and cognitive issues, depression, fatty liver, PCOS, IBS, Gerd, obesity etc with most on more medications than can be imagined, this is the real demographic that are successful with these diet protocol's because of the vast improvements in their health that begins to happen within a few days that they've never experience before in their lives. If someone is just giving these diet a go because they heard they're good at losing weight, well failure is pretty much a given and like you said, the complaint is that it's too restrictive, so like I said, that's a perspective thing.
This is a very good point...
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I started on Carnivore on February 16, 2024. As of today, January 15, 2025 I have lost 189lbs, 546lbs down to 357lbs.
I had been on Keto the year before and lost about 27lbs after a few months but I couldn't keep up.
The problem for me when it comes to food is that I am ALWAYS hungry. That is not an exaggeration, I was hungry all the time, even moments after completing a meal, and those meals were not small.
That didn't change on Keto.
After about a month it dramatically changed on Carnivore. After 30 days I was down to 2 meals a day. After 60 days I was down to 1 meal a day and there were some days that I forced myself to eat something just for energy and nutrition.
I will say that I also do not get any pimples at all anymore. I used to get boils and that has disappeared. And I had severe lower leg swelling and that is almost completely gone. The swelling is even better than it was when I was just as thin but eating a regular diet.
I am not a healthcare professional, and I am not advocating for anyone to do this, I'm just saying what happened to me. One of the only reason I did this was that for a man that was as big as I was I had amazing cholesterol numbers.2 -
MacksFisher wrote: »I started on Carnivore on February 16, 2024. As of today, January 15, 2025 I have lost 189lbs, 546lbs down to 357lbs.
I had been on Keto the year before and lost about 27lbs after a few months but I couldn't keep up.
The problem for me when it comes to food is that I am ALWAYS hungry. That is not an exaggeration, I was hungry all the time, even moments after completing a meal, and those meals were not small.
That didn't change on Keto.
After about a month it dramatically changed on Carnivore. After 30 days I was down to 2 meals a day. After 60 days I was down to 1 meal a day and there were some days that I forced myself to eat something just for energy and nutrition.
I will say that I also do not get any pimples at all anymore. I used to get boils and that has disappeared. And I had severe lower leg swelling and that is almost completely gone. The swelling is even better than it was when I was just as thin but eating a regular diet.
I am not a healthcare professional, and I am not advocating for anyone to do this, I'm just saying what happened to me. One of the only reason I did this was that for a man that was as big as I was I had amazing cholesterol numbers.
Truly amazing weight loss. Can I ask? How did you find carnivore? 0 -
MartMan92_ wrote: »Hello, I wanted to see if anyone had a preference to carnivore or keto? Give me pro and cons if you can plz 💪🏻
I did Keto with balancing my proteins and vegetables and no carbs. I used shirataki noodles, cabbage rice and almond flour to make bread. I made sure I had 30 grams of protein in each meal and 2 dairy/fruit snacks. I also made sure I had 8 glasses of water and slept 8 hours. I also add daily 15 minute walks in the morning, 15 minute walks in the afternoon during lunch break and 15 minutes in the evening. Prior to my accident I had lost 100 pounds using this method. I agree it's easier to plan your dietary needs. This is how I managed my weight.1 -
Best answer I can give you is do your research and avoid fad diets, stopping yourself from eating major food groups leads to loss of micronutrients and can cause serious issues in the long run.
I did tonnes of research, tried intermittent fasting and I enjoyed doing it, I did this unconsciously for years when I was younger without realising. I used to do 14-16 hours when starting my weight/fat loss journey, now I am in muscle/strength gaining phase, I have lowered this to around 12 hours or a little less. All I did was listen to my body.
Initially, I kept carbs at just under 100g a day, this doesnt work for everyone, some need a significant amount of carbs to function. I can lift very heavy for 1.5 - 2 hours with around 30g of carbs in the morning, this is completely different for others.
What I am trying to say is listen to your body on a daily basis and this dictates what works for you and what doesn't.
It is VERY important to do self education on nutrition etc, if you can pay for a dietician/nutritionist great on an ongoing basis or one off, but look at a variety of CREDIBLE sources, watching some 18 year old influencer ain't probably going to help, unless you want to follow a kid with a high school level biology certificate...
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neanderthin wrote: »MacksFisher wrote: »I started on Carnivore on February 16, 2024. As of today, January 15, 2025 I have lost 189lbs, 546lbs down to 357lbs.
I had been on Keto the year before and lost about 27lbs after a few months but I couldn't keep up.
The problem for me when it comes to food is that I am ALWAYS hungry. That is not an exaggeration, I was hungry all the time, even moments after completing a meal, and those meals were not small.
That didn't change on Keto.
After about a month it dramatically changed on Carnivore. After 30 days I was down to 2 meals a day. After 60 days I was down to 1 meal a day and there were some days that I forced myself to eat something just for energy and nutrition.
I will say that I also do not get any pimples at all anymore. I used to get boils and that has disappeared. And I had severe lower leg swelling and that is almost completely gone. The swelling is even better than it was when I was just as thin but eating a regular diet.
I am not a healthcare professional, and I am not advocating for anyone to do this, I'm just saying what happened to me. One of the only reason I did this was that for a man that was as big as I was I had amazing cholesterol numbers.
Truly amazing weight loss. Can I ask? How did you find carnivore?
After Keto had failed I was looking for something. I realized one of the things that made me fail at Keto was finding substitutes for foods I loved, pasta, bread, etc. I needed a diet that didn't allow that at all. I had seen some stuff online about carnivore and I just had to do something because I was at the end of my rope.0 -
MacksFisher wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »MacksFisher wrote: »I started on Carnivore on February 16, 2024. As of today, January 15, 2025 I have lost 189lbs, 546lbs down to 357lbs.
I had been on Keto the year before and lost about 27lbs after a few months but I couldn't keep up.
The problem for me when it comes to food is that I am ALWAYS hungry. That is not an exaggeration, I was hungry all the time, even moments after completing a meal, and those meals were not small.
That didn't change on Keto.
After about a month it dramatically changed on Carnivore. After 30 days I was down to 2 meals a day. After 60 days I was down to 1 meal a day and there were some days that I forced myself to eat something just for energy and nutrition.
I will say that I also do not get any pimples at all anymore. I used to get boils and that has disappeared. And I had severe lower leg swelling and that is almost completely gone. The swelling is even better than it was when I was just as thin but eating a regular diet.
I am not a healthcare professional, and I am not advocating for anyone to do this, I'm just saying what happened to me. One of the only reason I did this was that for a man that was as big as I was I had amazing cholesterol numbers.
Truly amazing weight loss. Can I ask? How did you find carnivore?
After Keto had failed I was looking for something. I realized one of the things that made me fail at Keto was finding substitutes for foods I loved, pasta, bread, etc. I needed a diet that didn't allow that at all. I had seen some stuff online about carnivore and I just had to do something because I was at the end of my rope.
Right. When I finally ended up trying keto, which took a while getting there, it basically helped with my health issues and reversed my pre diabetes and it also pretty much stopped my psoriasis and rheumatoid arthritis, which were something I dealt with for a few decades. Anyway, sugar was my problem and that was the main reason I started looking for something that would control my out of control consumption.
After a while on keto I thought I could start adding foods back in and like you bread and pasta were my favorites and basically I would adopt a Med type diet and it worked for a bit, a month or two but the cravings just got worse and my psoriasis and rheumatoid arthritis would creep back in and my weight would also start to go up as well, and back to keto I would go and over the last decade this situation happened a few times, so I get what your going through. Thanks for answering.1 -
I prefer to be an omnivore! 3
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This is my third year carnivore. I had never even heard of keto before I started this. Im 45.
I had gone to the doctor for a cert for work and she was on the verge of sending me to hospital as my BP was over 180. Sent home with a 24 hr BP device. On return she said I need tablets for life. I said no way, I'll get it down myself. My intention was to have my BP down to a reasonable range in 6 months and normalised in 1 year.
Began on a veg heavy diet, very little meat. Legumes, veggies, some fruit. (Very strict amounts of food of about 2000 cal) and I did not lose anything, my BP remained the same and I felt like crap. My friend mentioned Keto and so I looked into it ALOT. The preparation seemed onerous and I work a lot and have a family. I kept researching.
I stumbled across the Petersons and a few Doctors who are carnivore. Initially I thought that they were mad. Scurvy, vitamin deficiency, fibre etc. Not a hope. I kept researching and discovered the health benefits of this beyond the weight loss. So I decided to give it a try for 2 months. My intension was to lose the weight and then go back on a 'healthy and veg/meat based diet.
First week was a bit rough as I withdrew from carbs and sugar and coffee. Lost some weight. Began to feel better. I wish I had known more as there are things you need to do as your body adjusts. You should start with very high fat ratio and lots of electrolytes. The weight will come off eventually but if using to heal any autoimmune then the above is the way to go.
But I also noticed other things. My left knee was no longer painful and I could walk up stairs without limping (motorbike accident). My arthritis in my left hand was completely gone. My energy was constant and my mood was so level.
By the end of 2 months I felt so good I kept it on for a little longer. I was like a hawk for any negative side effects. By Christmas I was down 4 stone to 69kg and very fit. I have the same body composition as I had in my 20's at 45. My autoimmune was gone, raynards syndrome and arthritis. My eyesight is better and my hair is thicker. I got labs done and everything is perfect level and my BP is down to between 115 and 125.
I have no cravings for alcohol or sweet things anymore.
I went back on the SAD for Christmas and I felt so bad by new years. My joints ached, I had to nap during the day as my energy was so low.
I am back on it now and still not 100% like I was on the 15th of December, but getting there. On year 3 and I still monitor to make sure nothing is suffering but I am still getting more benefits as it goes on.
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Arguments for being carnivore.
I have HEAVILY researched this as I was very concerned about it. I wrote the below as a rebuttal to a claim that it is dangerous. The below information is from various sources. I don't really want to get into an argument with someone on here as I know some people get very angry and combative on this subject. The below are just facts for people to digest and come to your own conclusions. I would do LOTS of your own research if you are going to start carnivore.
Human stomach PH is one of the highest of all animals (carnivores all have higher PH than plant eaters or omnivores).
The cecum is now an appendix to our digestive system (the cecum was used to digest vegetation and convert it to saturated fats and cholesterol.) It has been accepted and confirmed that humans were hyper carnivores. Fruits and vegetable were famine foods. Inuits and sub Saharan tribes still exist solely on a meat diet as defined by hyper carnivore. So there are groups of people who have generations of carnivore, thus proving that it is at least a standard diet for humans.
Carbs are the only non essential macro nutrient. If you don't eat any carbs you thrive. If you don't eat protein you die and the same with fat. Carbs are a famine food for the human body. It can function but ATP production and mitochondrial health is optimal in Ketosis. Carbs also use the same transport pathways as vitamin c so that is why carb eaters get scurvy. The carbs hijack the transporters and Vit C is stranded on the SAD.
Plants are full of oxalates, alkaloids, lectins, saponins, tannins, omega - 6, the list goes on. Animals can run away from predators, plants use poison to defend. The cecum and ruminant stomach and certain enzymes are used to break down these poisons. Humans do not have the enzymes to break down the above toxins. We can survive on then but there is a price.
Veggies are composed of carbs that get broken down into simple sugar (like glucose) and fiber which ferments in the gut producing alcohols, aldehydes and other inflammatory byproducts.Vegetables contain thousands of naturally occurring chemical defences mechanisms known as plant toxins and anti-nutrients. Vegetables though touted as superfoods are less nutrient-dense than most people realise, lack key nutrients, come with anti-nutrients that bind to and prevent the absorption of the minerals in the veggies (see what I said about vit c above) and any food consumed with them, and provide inferior versions of numerous essential nutrients when compared with animal products. Consuming fiber from plants is not necessary and likely does more harm than good, look up the studies and see that doctors recommend cutting out fibre for severe constipation issues and intestinal issues.
I am not saying that there are not some advantages for certain people to eating certain vegetation at certain times. There is also plenty of plant medicine that is useful (it acts as a poison to the illness as well). But humans are basically carnivores.
So the takeaway is - Humans can and do thrive on a carnivore diet. I have done carnivore for over 2 years and I am still finding newer benefits as the time goes on and my body heals. You may disagree and that is your opinion which you are entitled to.1
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