Transforming fat to muscle

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vim_n_vigor
vim_n_vigor Posts: 4,089 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
OK, hopefully that caught the right people's attention. I know you don't turn fat into muscle! But, I do have a question about muscle.

I do not at all dispute the benefits of weight training, and I include it in my weekly activity. I am confused about one thing though, and it may just be a symantics thing.

I see many posts saying that you can't bulk up or gain muscle when in a caloric deficit, but you can 'wake up' existing muscle.
What does this mean? If I am in a caloric deficit, and weight training, what does that do exactly? What 'benefits' are there for weight training while in a deficit?

Again, I do not dispute the need for weight training. I am just trying to understand what it does while in a deficit vs. maintenance calories vs. surplus of calories.
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  • Chaosdrone
    Chaosdrone Posts: 171
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    bump
  • taco_tap
    taco_tap Posts: 152 Member
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    bump..
  • luv2ash
    luv2ash Posts: 1,903 Member
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    How much muscle do you want to build? I have some awesome guns and obtianed them while losing weight. I do, however, eat over 100 grams of protein a day.
  • versuga
    versuga Posts: 130 Member
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    bump
  • vim_n_vigor
    vim_n_vigor Posts: 4,089 Member
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    How much muscle do you want to build? I have some awesome guns and obtianed them while losing weight. I do, however, eat over 100 grams of protein a day.
    It isn't so much abou building the muscle. I know from past experience that I can tone, define, bulk pretty easily. I have a lot of fat to lose before any of that could be visible to others. I am just trying to understand what the weight training does physiologically in the caloric deficit if you can't actually gain muscle.
  • DannyMussels
    DannyMussels Posts: 1,842 Member
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    You can gain 'strength' without gaining muscle. Basically..say you can lift about 100lbs right now...you may not be using your muscle/strength to its full potential. It may or not be your MAX lift, but for the most part you can't lift anymore.

    Through better training and practice, you can start utilizing your muscles better and start using the same amount of muscle, to push a bit more weight. The muscles don't get bigger, you just use them and push them to get a little more out. Think of yourself using 90% of your power currently..then being pushed even futher, gaining 'strength' because now you've taught yourself to use your muscles better.


    The benefits for weight-training during a cut? When you lose mass, you lose muscle and fat. Leaving yourself smaller and weaker. Weight training will help keep as much muscle possible, while maximizing fat loss. So more of your 'mass' lost is muscle...vs fat. Leaving a more toned look, because you kept the muscle that's been hiding under the fat.

    You won't gain muscle while losing weight, but you'll keep a lot more of the underlying muscle you already have.
  • deathstarclock
    deathstarclock Posts: 512 Member
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    What the hell does "wake up muscle" mean? Are you referring to using muscles that you're not accustomed to? These are generally stabilizing muscles that you probably don't use in daily normal activity.
  • Gigi_licious
    Gigi_licious Posts: 1,185 Member
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    I asked one of my smart people friends a question similar to this last week. From my understanding, when you are eating at a deficit and doing strength training you are conditioning your muscles that are already there and already exist. While you're conditioning them, they can become stronger as your fat decreases so you would still be toned once the fat is gone. When people "build" muscle, they are eating at a surplus when they lift. Not sure that helped you at all. I'm still really new at this, so smart people are more than welcome to chime in and correct me.....Joe, Strout, Acg, Eric....???
  • vim_n_vigor
    vim_n_vigor Posts: 4,089 Member
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    What the hell does "wake up muscle" mean? Are you referring to using muscles that you're not accustomed to? These are generally stabilizing muscles that you probably don't use in daily normal activity.
    I wasn't sure what 'waking up muscles' meant. I saw it in a post at the end of last week that I wasn't able to respond to. I couldn't ask what that poster meant about 'waking' them up. Sorry.
  • McKayMachina
    McKayMachina Posts: 2,670 Member
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    You can gain 'strength' without gaining muscle. Basically..say you can lift about 100lbs right now...you may not be using your muscle/strength to its full potential. It may or not be your MAX lift, but for the most part you can't lift anymore.

    Through better training and practice, you can start utilizing your muscles better and start using the same amount of muscle, to push a bit more weight. The muscles don't get bigger, you just use them and push them to get a little more out. Think of yourself using 90% of your power currently..then being pushed even futher, gaining 'strength' because now you've taught yourself to use your muscles better.


    The benefits for weight-training during a cut? When you lose mass, you lose muscle and fat. Leaving yourself smaller and weaker. Weight training will help keep as much muscle possible, while maximizing fat loss. So more of your 'mass' lost is muscle...vs fat. Leaving a more toned look, because you kept the muscle that's been hiding under the fat.

    You won't gain muscle while losing weight, but you'll keep a lot more of the underlying muscle you already have.

    While this sounds nice, it doesn't actually answer OP's question. You just said the same thing a few different times in different words.

    How is it possible to start out lifting 10 lbs. and wind up lifting 100 lbs. while in a caloric deficit, actively losing weight, without having built any muscle?

    Thanks!
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
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    Weight training while in a deficit strengthens and PRESERVES existing muscle. When you lose fat you inevitably lose muscle as well. Exercise and especially strength training preserves as much muscle tissue as possible. Without it your body might start burning more muscle than fat.
  • deathstarclock
    deathstarclock Posts: 512 Member
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    You cannot gain strength without first putting on mass. It just doesn't work that way. Unless you have a basic understanding of exercise physiology, don't try to tackle that one.

    Waking up muscle means exercising muscles that you are not accustomed to using on a daily basis. These muscles serve as stabilizing muscles that work with the center of gravity during any action being performed. A perfect example is your TVA, your transverse abdominis. This muscle assists in stabilizing your trunk along with your erector spinae and obliques. You contract this muscle to suck in your stomach and create a "block" to stabilize your spine from flexing or extending too much. Think of it as a natural weight belt.

    Some activities will make you use muscles you didn't know you had. These muscles serve as "antagonists" to muscles performing work, or "agonists."
  • Tiffany1221
    Tiffany1221 Posts: 6 Member
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    what does "bump" mean?
  • H_Factor
    H_Factor Posts: 1,722 Member
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    you can add some muscle while burning fat on a caloric deficit. If you can't, then I need to check myself into the hospital and find out why its happening to me. I do agree that you're not going to be able to enter any bodybuilding competitions on a caloric deficit...but you can add lean muscle mass
  • deathstarclock
    deathstarclock Posts: 512 Member
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    you can add some muscle while burning fat on a caloric deficit. If you can't, then I need to check myself into the hospital and find out why its happening to me. I do agree that you're not going to be able to enter any bodybuilding competitions on a caloric deficit...but you can add lean muscle mass

    Have you been measuring yourself? Could it be that you're losing fat around your muscles, and in fact being more defined versus building? You only build muscle through hypertrophy training. And you need to be in positive caloric balance to achieve mass.

    Unless you're just a freak of nature.
  • H_Factor
    H_Factor Posts: 1,722 Member
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    you can add some muscle while burning fat on a caloric deficit. If you can't, then I need to check myself into the hospital and find out why its happening to me. I do agree that you're not going to be able to enter any bodybuilding competitions on a caloric deficit...but you can add lean muscle mass

    Have you been measuring yourself? Could it be that you're losing fat around your muscles, and in fact being more defined versus building? You only build muscle through hypertrophy training. And you need to be in positive caloric deficit to achieve mass.

    Unless you're just a freak of nature.

    nope...not measuring myself. and, sure, a lot of it is losing the fat around my muscle. but I can tell you that there are muscles that were not developed before I started my fat loss mission. for example, the upper chest area has muscle now where it wasn't developed before. there is no doubt that my legs are stronger. and I'm pretty sure the muscles in my arms are more developed. oh, and the pull-ups are doing something to my back besides burning fat. again, I'm not about to enter a bodybuilding competition or anything, but there are changes besides fat loss.
  • bizco
    bizco Posts: 1,949 Member
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    Lifting heavy weights while operating at a calorie deficit will help minimize muscle loss. The weight you lose will be more fat tissue, not muscle tissue.

    Lifting heavy weights has the added benefit of increasing your strength. This helps you perform everyday tasks. You'll be able to lift and move heavy things with ease and without injury.
  • deathstarclock
    deathstarclock Posts: 512 Member
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    :drinker:
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    Last time I tackled this I got flamed but I'm going to post again so my fellow bodybuilders can disagree again =)

    It is very, very difficult (next to impossible) to gain lean mass in a deficit. However, Lyle McDonald has an article that discusses (this is ANECDOTAL, keep that in mind) circumstances under which people can make small gains while cutting. Muscle memory would be one indicator, and I can present photo examples of before/afters where I am gaining measurements and arm size while decreasing bodyweight. I was not in a surplus during this period, but I have muscle memory on my side as I used to be in shape.

    Now let me make one big distinction: Do I think people regularly gain lean muscle on a cut? No. I just concede that it isn't impossible. It is very unlikely, and it's not something people should expect, nor is it a strategy to attempt (If you want to gain muscle you should be at a small surplus) but the commonly mentioned "noob gains" as well as people who used to be in shape and got out of shape, have shown this to exist.

    Lastly, if you believe that strength gains cannot occur while in a deficit, AND lean mass cannot be gained in a deficit, then something must be wrong. My lifts are increasing from Sept to current, and I've been running a steady deficit and leaning out. I do not think I'm gaining lean mass -- it's because a portion of strength is neurological adaption.
  • lisaisso
    lisaisso Posts: 337 Member
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    bump

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