Very Difficult Decision...Any Insight?
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Unfortunately, no one can really help you make that decision. I work in organ donation and we see families every day having to make these choices. Ultimately, you know what she would want. You may have to have some time alone with her, to really see where she is and think about what she would want. If she told you she wanted to fight until she couldn't fight anymore, then you have to make the best judgement that you can as to whether she can still fight. There comes a time when everyone must pass. Whatever you decide, do your best with her physicians to ensure that she isn't suffering in pain. I can't think of anyone who would want to merely exist that way.
My father died of a brain tumor. He came home with hospice care and he was never intubated in the hospital, so we never had to make a decision to withdraw treatment. I hate that they call it "withdrawing care". I have never withdrawn "care". We gave him comfort measures. It was not easy for us when he went, but he was comfortable and, to be honest, the tumor had taken him away long before. The man he was was just no longer there. For us, that was the right decision, though it really was not a decision at all, because his tumor was not survivable. In the end, no matter what what you or anyone else wants, do what she would want, whatever that might be.0 -
You aren my prayers either descision is hard we had something similar with my granny but I wasn't the one
Along the decision. Either way you will be going against what someone else wants. Your mom trusted YOU I'm sure you will make the right choice. You are in my prayers at this hard time. Just think of your mom, her life, if she was able to talk to you right now what would she say?! Sometimes that helps... But it is a very difficult situation all around stay strong! We are all here for you for support no matter what!! :-)0 -
I'm so very sorry about your friend. Yes, I've been there. My mom had brain cancer.
She had papers drawn up before her biopsy for exactly this reason and I had to decide.
One of the things that should bring you a lot of comfort is that they really are not in a lot of pain with brain cancer. It also affects their ability to feel pain. Most of the pain she felt before the end was really due to lack of mobility but when she slipped into the coma - it was all over.
We actually had brought her home before the very end when we knew there was no hope.
The key you have to remember is that they chose you because they knew you loved them - and that you down deep know what is best for them.
To keep her comfortable and let her pass is ultimately the best thing for her, for all her loved ones.
Even though it is hard because we are ultimately very selfish and don't want to lose something very precious to us.
Even though there are people here who will think I'm crazy - I'm not and several people saw this not just me.
In the end, we did not put her on life support - and gave her liquids as we could so she did not suffer.
An angel came and stood by her bed - bent down - and my mom passed away and left the room with the angel.
It was a moving and peaceful experience.0 -
My grandmother made her final choice to quit the fight after her 2nd broken hip and fighting like a champ for over 10 years. My grandfather however had alzheimer's and we eventually had to place him in a home. He was already listed at a DNR and one day he choked and the home rushed him to the hospital. Which they where not suppose to do, but I am glad they did it gave me real time to say my good byes. An like your mother he had no idea who anyone was; But still Loved his Ice cream (vanilla)
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We made the choice it was time to let him go and sent him to the most amazing hospice facility I have ever seen, a hard choice but we came to terms with it. We also knew he had no joy in life anymore.
Hope my story helps, and best of luck with whatever decision you make.0 -
As a pastor, I see this situation frequently. Death is natural occurence. As a human being, we are not promised tomorrow. However, we know that God (or our Higher Power) is there with us in the midst of our struggles.
My family (I was too young to have input in the decision process) made the decision to prolong my mother's life by inserting a feeding tube. She lived 8 or 9 years after the tube was inserted. While I am grateful for the time and visits that I had with my mother, I also realize the pain and frustration that she felt not being able to communicate and missing so much of my life.
You have the toughest decision to make. I would suggest speaking with a spiritual counselor or someone that you respect in person to discuss this issue. Know that your friends on MFP are praying for you and support you in whatever decision you make.0 -
- I am SO sorry you are having to deal with this! Almost 2 yrs ago my husband and his sister went through something similar. However we were "lucky" in that a week before my mother-in-law got really bad she gave us "instructions" and she did not want to be in pain anymore. She decided to NOT continue with treatment and we all supported her choice. It was hard because we did not want her to leave us but we also wanted her to be at peace and that meant to "let her go". You said your mom wanted to fight until she couldn't fight anymore- the question is (and I believe you have answered this question already) can she "fight" anymore? If you feel she can not then sounds like you have your answer. But only YOU can answer that question. We all want to keep our loved ones alive and well- but that is not the way the "circle-of-life" goes, unfortunately- No matter what you decide keep all the GOOD MEMORIES in mind and live with those- I am glad you had 9 extra months with your mom- we only had 10 days once they told us. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family members as you battle thru this most difficult time! 0 -
hi there, im so so sorry that this awful decision has to be made. my mum died of cancer 7 months ago and certainly in the end i just wanted her to be as comfortable and painfree as possible x all you can ever do is the best you can x it is better i feel personally to look at her now and ask whether she would truly be happy as she is x my mum passed suddenly so i am unable to even contemplate your pain fully x love never ends x i hope you are ok!0
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I have been in that situation but I had family to help me make the decision. We prayed alot before deciding. Your mother trusted you to make the right decision in this case. You will do the right thing. Ask God before deciding0
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So sorry to hear that, I no if it was me I wouldn't want to be on a machine. My 9 old son had to be taken off the machine, Its a very hard decision to make, and only you can decide that. My prayers are with you. Best regards Brit.0
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I was sitting exactly where you are at back in 2001, my mother had put up a courageous fight against COPD and Emphysema and the week b4 she had fallin trying to get to the bathroom and broke her collar bone. At that time she was no more than 90 pounds (down from her avg of 135 all her life) and that whole week in the hospital she was in and out.... My father at the time was fighting Emphysema, Alzheimer's and an Aortic Aneurysm and wasn't in the state of mind to make any decisions.. They had come to me several years earlier and ask for me to be power of Attorney over their entire affairs. I knew there wishes and wants so after one week of sitting by her bedside the doctor said it was time to make a decision and needed to know what I wanted to do.. Everybody was telling me whatever I decided would be best but that didn't make the decision any easier. After all this was my mother... The strongest woman I had ever known and a mothers love that I just didn't know how I could live without. At 5 in the evening on the 7 day in the hospital I told the doctor no more, it was time to let her go. The nurse woke me around 4 in the morning and we was all there when she took her last breathe. For me it never got any easier, I completely shut down after that and I didn't talk about it and I let it consume me and a decade later I had ballooned to 560 lbs. and was in a life or death struggle with my own mortality. I finally had that AHA moment and seek out help. Even after almost 10 years at that time i was still holding on to it like it was yesterday. You need to talk to someone/ anyone after you decide (and you know the decision you have to make for her sake) it is important to not bottle up your emotions or it will eat you alive.... Depression is a very serious disease that darn near cost me my life..... I wish you the best and my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family during this very difficult time....... God Bless.......0
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We have had conversations...she told me she wanted to fight until she couldn't anymore...but now I don't even know if I understand what that means. Her living will basically states that the decision would be mine if there came a time when she was incapable of making decisions on her own. I'm just at a loss...my brother wants to keep her alive, regardless of how much pain she's in. My grandmother doesn't want her in pain anymore...I just don't know what to do.
We just went through this with my sister's MIL. My sister and BIL cared for her for 18months in their home. She passed away Dec. 4th.
You have to filter out what your brother and grandma wants. Now you can take that under advisement but you have to look what is best for your mom and not anyone else, including yourself.
My sister and BIL are still grieving and it is has been almost 2 months. They are taking care of the financial affairs and the aftermath that ensues. It is still difficult for them.
Many hugs to you.0 -
<hugs> Unfortunately she left this for you to decide. She knows that you will make the choice she wants. But as an extreme Momma's girl, I just want to hold you and say that everything will be okay. You "know" what she wants. having the strength to do it is something else. I will be praying for you.0
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I don't have a word of advice to offer you, but I will offer you my prayers and love, and any strength I can give.
My father was in a bad situation in the hospital almost two years ago and I flat out told him he needed to put his brother in charge of that decision should it need to be made. There was no way I'd emotionally be able to make that decision. Thankfully I still have my father with me today, but he did lose his left foot back in December as a result of the long battle with his health.0 -
We have had conversations...she told me she wanted to fight until she couldn't anymore...but now I don't even know if I understand what that means. Her living will basically states that the decision would be mine if there came a time when she was incapable of making decisions on her own. I'm just at a loss...my brother wants to keep her alive, regardless of how much pain she's in. My grandmother doesn't want her in pain anymore...I just don't know what to do.
First, I'm very sorry you have to go through this. Can she fight this anymore? Does she have any quality of life? Will she survive and go back to the way she was? Would she want to live for months or years like this? If the answers are no then you may have your answer.
Someone close to me has cancer and we've talked about at what point this decision should be made. He ultimately said that he's not really alive/living if he's on life support and there's little to no possibility of him ever recovering. Pull the plug. While it would be difficult, I hope I have the courage to help him with this final request should the time come.0 -
Thank you all. Your stories really make me feel so much less...alone. I don't believe in God, but I do believe that prayers and positive energy help to bring peace and clarity, and for those, I thank you. I'm so sorry for those of you who have gone through this, but I appreciate hearing about what you did in this situation. I still just don't know. We had a "meeting" with my brother, myself, and her medical team last night, and it didn't make it any easier. Thank you for sharing, and for making me feel less alone. I think after reading, I know what I am going to do...I just need to find the strength to say it out loud now.0
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Yes, not the same, but similar. My father in law had a stroke which caused his brain to swell and was essentially dead. Luckily, my son is a Dr. and my daughter is a nurse anesticist. Both the attending physicians and our children advised us to take him off all life support, only give pain medication. The body will shut down or not on its own.
We did as advised. My husband and mother in law left for a short time and returned to find him awake and recognizing them. The swelling from the stroke had gone down. He was put back on the respirator, etc. and lived another year. The part of the brain that was affected was the communication center. The quality of life was gone, but it was clear to us we had done the right thing. When he died a year later he was clearly ready to go.
My advise is to keep her comfortable, don't do anything to prolong her life/0 -
I went through this with my Grandfather. My heart goes out to you. I believe doing what you can to ease pain she's having is good. If there is no hope of recovery then you have a difficulty choice about whether or not stop treatments to battle the illness. I believe this decision is ethically neutral. I know some will disagree but I believe it is wrong to take actions that will intentionally end her life. By this I mean with holding food, water, or machines to help her breathe. We all hate suffering whether for ourselves or others but often this is how God works in our lives. His greatest work was through the suffering of His Son for the forgiveness of our sins. Sometimes He allows suffering in our lives to draw us closer to Him.0
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My mother had a living will giving my brother and me this decision-making responsibility. We were fortunate that the chief of ICU took the time to sit down with us and explain my mother's condition. He was blunt about her prognosis, which was not good, but he did give us enough clarity to make the decision to take Mom off life support. Of course, the decision still wasn't easy, and after Mom passed, ai few relatives disapproved, but I still feel we made the right and best decision.0
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I cannot offer any insight or advice as I have never been through a situation of this sort. What I can offer you is my prayers. I pray to God that you will find peace with whatever decision you make. I pray that you will continue to be strong and courageous. Good luck....0
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i work with elderly people on hospice and morphine is a godsend, but it drugs them up so bad that they aren't even themselves. they can hardly respond to you and may not even recognize you. it's all up to you. my personal opinion is to keep her on morphine so everybody can say their good-byes, then let her go. it's not fair to leave her suffering like that.0
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My heart is absolutely breaking for you right now.
Seven years ago my uncle was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. It was inoperable and, despite treatment, he deteriorated very quickly. For the last week he was barely conscious and my aunt and mum had to make the decision as to whether to withdraw all treatment. They are both nurses and had seen patients so many times like this. They knew that he was not going to make some miraculous recovery and that, much as we couldn't bear to let him go, they had to make a decision based on what was best for him.
Seeing him in the final days, it already felt like he had gone. It was then down to my mum and aunt to make the decision to help him find that final peace.
Treatment was withdrawn, except for pain relief (morphine), and it all happened very quickly after that. He never regained consciousness but was surrounded by family when he passed away .
Whatever decision you make - please believe it is the right one. And while it is unbearable to let someone that you love so much go, helping her find peace is one last amazing gift you can give her.
My thoughts and prayers are with you - and there is a whole community of support here should you need to talk.
xxx0 -
I had a friend that signed his own medical coma papers because he was on his deathbed and was in so much pain that he just... couldn't do it anymore. It was a hard thing to talk about, a hard decision to make, I don't envy where you are one bit!
If it were me, I would have a frank discussion with her doctors, and ask, in the miracle chance that she recovers, what kind of quality of life are we talking about? Is it reasonable to believe that she will always need assistance? Be impaired? If her quality of life will be severely impacted no matter what, I say let her rest, say your goodbyes.
I'm sure your brother is coming from a place like you, where he doesn't want your mom to die. It's not about what is good for her so much as he doesn't want to face that loss. I would also have a frank discussion with him about what he really thinks is going to happen, the real reasons why, and to make sure he at least understands that if you do decide it's time to let go, that he can at least respect that.
I think it's very significant that your grandmother is saying let her rest and pass. No mother wants to outlive her children. It takes a huge amount of courage to electively say, I will let my daughter go. It can't have been easy for her, but the fact that she said that tells me just how much pain your mother is in.
Not that it's my decision, but I would take measures and make arrangements to remove support and let her die in peace.0 -
I was 23 when my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and I found out three days after that I was going to have a baby. My mother died without knowing that she had another grandchild on the way. Luckily my mom had a living will for the doctors to follow, but that didn't make it any easier to watch her slip away. You have an extraordinarily difficult decision to make; whatever you choose, know your mom loves you and is proud of you.0
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First, I like the others are sincerely sorry for the decision you are preparing to make. I have never been in that situation, but I would personally wonder, would she want others to keep her alive just for the sake of keeping her alive? Would she want others to see her in the state she is in? If you were in her position what would you want to be done?
My prayers to you and your family during this difficult time!0 -
You and your family are in my prayers. Just remember this: she loves you and trusts you. That is why YOU are the one she asked to handle this. While your heart must be breaking, hold onto that.
Hugs and prayers,
Jean
ETA - don't forget to take care of yourself during this time.0 -
I am so sorry you are going through this. My case was different but we still had to make that decision. 5 years ago my mum had a major stroke ( completly out of the blue was fit and healthy up until that point) and after a few days of tests and monitoring we were asked if we wanted to continue or to let her go. If she would of survived % wasn't high she wouldn't be able to move, talk, do anything 4 herself and she wouldn't know who we were. It was the hardest decision ever but i knew mum wouldn't of wanted to live like that. They turned the machines off and she died with everyone she cared about at her bedside - she was only 47.
Mandy xx0 -
Is there a Hospice in your area? I would call them and ask questions ... they can help guide you to the right decision for both you and your mom ... I am very sorry you are going through this and pray you all come to find peace!0
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It sounds like your mom has fought hard for these months, but she has not fought alone. You and your family have battled with her. Not at the same level but fought still the same. As so many others have said, it has to be what you are comfortable with in the time you are comfortable with it. Likely no matter what you decide, you will second guess yourself and it will be painful. Try to live in the moment.
I have not been through this situation yet but if I live long enough, I will likely be making this choice for my daughter. I follow a mother whose child had the same chronic illness as my daughter but he passed away. I find her blog very helpful. You might go there and read some of her story: http://www.notsobrightandshiny.blogspot.com/0 -
I watched my own Mum battle with breast cancer, that spread to her liver, bones and brain. She lost herself at the end, and was not sure who we were or where she was. In the last days of her life I would not have put my worst enemy through what she went through, in fact if the Dr had not 'made her comfortable' I am sorry to say I would gladly have put a pillow over her poor face to end it for her, I loved my Mum so very much, but the disease was taking her from me so painfully, so slowly and cruelly that I would encourage you to think of it as ending her suffering, rather than keeping her with you, her pain is greater than yours right now, I am sure, and although it is hard, make sure that you say all the things you want to say to her at this time, spend as much time as you can with her, as I would give everything I own to spend an hour with my Mum after almost ten years.
I think that the pain you feel is the hardest pain to bear, but your Mother is suffering needlessly, allow them to ease her pain xxxxxx
agree
she will have no more Pain. at this time that would be a gift to her.0
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