Seeking Professional Advice

QueenJayJay
QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
edited November 2024 in Chit-Chat
Good morning! :smile:

I'm a teacher, and we team teach. I've been dealing with the same issue (with the same coworker) for about 3 years now. We have a yearly evaluation to confirm whether or not we are doing our job correctly. If we do not receive a satisfactory evaluation, we are not offered a contract for the next year. Part of our evaluation considers how well we work with our team.

This team member consistently does not meet deadlines, turn things in on time, etc., and it reflects badly on the team. When one of us is not upholding our duties, we all look bad. She has a very strong personality, and everyone on our team is afraid to "speak up" about it to her. I have approached her about it in the past, with a very nice attitude (i.e. "I really don't want you to get in trouble for this; trying to help you out"), and she has responded in a very hostile way, with zero change to the situation.

I feel the issue needs to be taken care of. Which do you think would be more professional, and why?

1. Approach her yet again, and run the risk of her being hostile/starting an argument/being angry with the team.

2. Make our administrators aware of it. (I really don't want to be a tattle, though.)


Thank you for your help!
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Replies

  • coliema
    coliema Posts: 7,646 Member
    I would try #1 again and if that doesn't work, move on to #2.
  • QueenJayJay
    QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
    I would try #1 again and if that doesn't work, move on to #2.

    Why?
  • SwannySez
    SwannySez Posts: 5,860 Member
    I would suggest that you get the whole team involved either to come to her as a team with your concerns or to go to the administration as a team with your concerns.

    If your team is not willing to come together to confront an issue that obviously affects all of you, I would consider going to the administration and suggesting that you have lost confidence in your ability to function within this team and explain to them your concerns.

    If all else fails...I know a guy...
  • QueenJayJay
    QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
    I would suggest that you get the whole team involved either to come to her as a team with your concerns or to go to the administration as a team with your concerns.

    If your team is not willing to come together to confront an issue that obviously affects all of you, I would consider going to the administration and suggesting that you have lost confidence in your ability to function within this team and explain to them your concerns.

    If all else fails...I know a guy...

    Oh you! :wink:

    I think that's wonderful advice. Thank you. I'm not so sure I want to be part of a team that is afraid of one particular member. Maybe we need to work on that together.
  • ScatteredThoughts
    ScatteredThoughts Posts: 3,562 Member
    Since you have already tried #1, I would go with option #2. There is a particular co-worker of mine who has consistently poor performance. He has alwaysignored my advice on how to improve, even when he was the one who brought up concerns he has about how to do things. It got to the point where I just started mentioning specific instances of things I had noticed to his supervisor.

    I understand about not wanting the be a snitch, but there is only so much you can do. Are there others who are also willing to attest to the problems with this person?
  • hapoo100
    hapoo100 Posts: 926 Member
    I would do approach #1 again but you should change your approach. Starting with "I dont want to get you in trouble" is bound to create conflict and put her on the defensive.

    The best way to give feedback, in my opinion, is to state what behavior you would like to see rather than focus on past behaviors.

    as an example
    "if you find you are getting close to timelines and are worried that you won't make deadlines, let me know and I will help out whenever I can"

    if that doesnt work, go to step #2
  • StatHaldol
    StatHaldol Posts: 414 Member
    My wife took a class which required group participation. They had to keep and maintain a Gann chart

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gantt_chart

    I know it looks complicated, but it keeps everyone accountable and the professor could tell at a glance which ones were doing most of the work.
  • Buddhasmiracle
    Buddhasmiracle Posts: 925 Member
    Maybe it is from lack of information, but I am not clear on how whoever does the team evaluations has not observed this behavior, particularly if it is been consistently the same for that many years. What behavior dimensions are expected, and what and outcomes is the team measured on?
  • neverstray
    neverstray Posts: 3,845 Member
    I would approach her again with evidence of a few situations. If she's hostile, or doesn't show any signs of acknowledging the problem, I would have a team meeting without her and discuss what to do, with hopefully, the end result is that the team discuss this with her. Kind of like an intervention. If no admission or improvement, approach the administration with the step you and the team took, and explain the situation and let them handle it from there. If your administration is good, they may suggest some other techniques the team can use to I prove her performance. If tat doesn't work, the administration will have to acknowledge the problem and move her out, or whatever they do with poor performing teachers.
  • BruteSquad
    BruteSquad Posts: 373 Member
    I would agree with #1 then #2 if it fails, and here is why.

    If she doesn't report to you, and it appears she does not, then you can only speak to her in terms of your concerns for the team and how it reflects. You don't have to like everyone you work with, but you must be professional and you expect that same professionalism. If she doesn't change, your only alternative is to go to the next level.

    On a side note. The hostility and anger are techniques to take control of a situation. The angriest person is in control if the others back down. The best way to deal with this is to be a Vulcan (or robot or stone). Refuse to deal with any personal attacks, refuse to INTERNALIZE any personal attacks. Stick to the facts. Offer to help if she needs assistance in organizing so she can meet deadlines etc.(if you are willing to do so) Ignore the hostility and never raise your voice. It is nothing personal, it is purely a professional issue. Chances are that she will escalate. Remain calm and never rise, stay to the facts. It wouldn't hurt to have a witness.

    My two cents and experience.
  • QueenJayJay
    QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
    I would do approach #1 again but you should change your approach. Starting with "I dont want to get you in trouble" is bound to create conflict and put her on the defensive.

    Maybe I didn't word it very well. It was more like "I don't want the admins to find out and you get in trouble," not me getting her in trouble.
  • QueenJayJay
    QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
    Maybe it is from lack of information, but I am not clear on how whoever does the team evaluations has not observed this behavior, particularly if it is been consistently the same for that many years. What behavior dimensions are expected, and what and outcomes is the team measured on?

    Unfortunately, this is a flaw in the system. It's in the eval, but they don't really check up on it.
  • angied80
    angied80 Posts: 713 Member
    Since she was not very responsive when you initially confronted her about it, maybe you should speak with another or more team memebers and see if any of them woud be willing to confront her as well. One on ones seem to make people feel less like they are being cornered. If she still does not respond I would make the administration team aware of it and let them handle it from there.

    but I am not a professional =) but you love me.
  • QueenJayJay
    QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
    "if you find you are getting close to timelines and are worried that you won't make deadlines, let me know and I will help out whenever I can"

    This approach has led to me pulling her weight and doing her work for the last 3 years. I am SO sick of it.
  • soccer8s
    soccer8s Posts: 238 Member
    I would suggest that you get the whole team involved either to come to her as a team with your concerns or to go to the administration as a team with your concerns.

    If your team is not willing to come together to confront an issue that obviously affects all of you, I would consider going to the administration and suggesting that you have lost confidence in your ability to function within this team and explain to them your concerns.

    If all else fails...I know a guy...

    THIS FOR SURE!!!! If the whole team won't go - get at least 1-2 (or as many as you can) together and voice the concerns.
  • sculley
    sculley Posts: 2,012 Member
    Honestly I think you have already done your part in trying to keep it at the lowest level possible, and to be treated in a hostile way when you tried that would be a red flag in my book especially since she deals with children. I would take it up. You have already tried and no one else in your team is willing to step up.
  • QueenJayJay
    QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
    I would agree with #1 then #2 if it fails, and here is why.

    If she doesn't report to you, and it appears she does not, then you can only speak to her in terms of your concerns for the team and how it reflects. You don't have to like everyone you work with, but you must be professional and you expect that same professionalism. If she doesn't change, your only alternative is to go to the next level.

    On a side note. The hostility and anger are techniques to take control of a situation. The angriest person is in control if the others back down. The best way to deal with this is to be a Vulcan (or robot or stone). Refuse to deal with any personal attacks, refuse to INTERNALIZE any personal attacks. Stick to the facts. Offer to help if she needs assistance in organizing so she can meet deadlines etc.(if you are willing to do so) Ignore the hostility and never raise your voice. It is nothing personal, it is purely a professional issue. Chances are that she will escalate. Remain calm and never rise, stay to the facts. It wouldn't hurt to have a witness.

    My two cents and experience.

    This sounds wonderful. Thank you!
  • _Tristan_
    _Tristan_ Posts: 221 Member
    I would do approach #1 again but you should change your approach. Starting with "I dont want to get you in trouble" is bound to create conflict and put her on the defensive.

    The best way to give feedback, in my opinion, is to state what behavior you would like to see rather than focus on past behaviors.

    as an example
    "if you find you are getting close to timelines and are worried that you won't make deadlines, let me know and I will help out whenever I can"

    if that doesnt work, go to step #2

    THIS FIRST ^^

    I would suggest that you get the whole team involved either to come to her as a team with your concerns or to go to the administration as a team with your concerns.

    If your team is not willing to come together to confront an issue that obviously affects all of you, I would consider going to the administration and suggesting that you have lost confidence in your ability to function within this team and explain to them your concerns.

    If all else fails...I know a guy...
    [/quote

    THEN THIS ^^^

    I would really push the first response though. Problem solving withing the team would be the best solution. Remember your goal when presenting the conflict and take your ego out of the equation. You just want everyone to turn things in on time.

    Otherwise, that guy that Swanny knows......................

    Good luck!
  • Niccan81
    Niccan81 Posts: 10
    I would suggest that you get the whole team involved either to come to her as a team with your concerns or to go to the administration as a team with your concerns.

    If your team is not willing to come together to confront an issue that obviously affects all of you, I would consider going to the administration and suggesting that you have lost confidence in your ability to function within this team and explain to them your concerns.

    100% agree with this one!
  • Becky_Boodle
    Becky_Boodle Posts: 253 Member
    I would suggest that you get the whole team involved either to come to her as a team with your concerns or to go to the administration as a team with your concerns.

    If your team is not willing to come together to confront an issue that obviously affects all of you, I would consider going to the administration and suggesting that you have lost confidence in your ability to function within this team and explain to them your concerns.

    If all else fails...I know a guy...

    I agree...I think this is excellent advice :)
  • dlaplume2
    dlaplume2 Posts: 1,658 Member
    Are these evaluation confidential? I dont' understand how if you are doing these evaluations on each other, how they expect honest feedback if they are not confidential.

    I would say if she hasn't changed in three years, she is not going to. Especially if there is no incentive for her to change ie. keeping her job or getting a raise. Maybe you could write an annonomouse letter to your supervisor with a list of the concerns you and other co workers have voiced in the past. If one of the things they have in your review is how well you work with others, then you need to tread very carefully, because your greivences, no matter how warranted, may come out as not being a team player.

    Make sure you stick to facts and not peoples opinions or feelings. That creates shades of grey. When someone is underperforming, they usually leave a trail.

    Best wishes.
  • Lesa_Sass
    Lesa_Sass Posts: 2,213 Member
    As some one that has worked in HR and owned my own business, I suggest documenting all of the facts about this person and giving it to the administration.

    When a person is hostile and not open to criticism, there is nothing you can do that is going to help her or change her, period. Change happens over time, it happens when someone actually realizes they are wrong by having to suffer consequences for their actions. People with her type of attitude will refuse to take direction or advice from someone that they feel is on their same level, justifying their behavior and the other persons advice can be perceived as jealousy.

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results. Having the idea that we can change people actually is a little bit of our own ego coming into play. I say turn it over and let it go. Trust me, there is nothing that can be gained by chewing on this. Toxic people breed a toxic environment, it is your responsibility to let the powers that be know.
  • _binary_jester_
    _binary_jester_ Posts: 2,132 Member
    Is corporal punishment still allowed in schools?
  • KJVBear33
    KJVBear33 Posts: 628
    Im with everyone here.........I think number one is the answer. Try it again, tell her how you feel, and if you are met with the same hostility, then you ought to get someone else involved. In saying that, I think its also a good idea, if you are met with hostility, to tell her so. Maybe she doesn't know she is being hostile to begin with. For me, sometimes I can misrepresent myself as being defensive, when I am not. Often times, when people are strong willed and really do think that their opinion of a certain situation is the right one no matter the evidence against it, it comes across as being "defensive" or "hostile". So I'd ask her why she's deciding to get so worked up over something that you are only trying to help her with. Maybe from a little understanding of how she feels might open her up to wanting to understand where you are coming from as well.

    If all else fails, have an administrator be in the room, in the background where he/she can't be seen by the person, and talk to her so that they--the administrator--gets an idea of exactly what sort of hostile personality you are trying to work with. That way, they know about the situation first hand and see what it is like working with someone like that so when you go to complain later on OR when the subject comes up again, they know what you are dealing with.
  • QueenJayJay
    QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results. Having the idea that we can change people actually is a little bit of our own ego coming into play. I say turn it over and let it go. Trust me, there is nothing that can be gained by chewing on this. Toxic people breed a toxic environment, it is your responsibility to let the powers that be know.

    This is excellent advice, especially the part about thinking we can change people. I really appreciate this, and everything mentioned above. I think I have my answer now.
  • QueenJayJay
    QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
    Is corporal punishment still allowed in schools?

    :laugh: In ours, actually, yes. The parents decided on it.
  • _binary_jester_
    _binary_jester_ Posts: 2,132 Member
    Is corporal punishment still allowed in schools?

    :laugh: In ours, actually, yes. The parents decided on it.
    mmmm teacher spanking...hot!
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,056 Member
    Good morning! :smile:

    I'm a teacher, and we team teach. I've been dealing with the same issue (with the same coworker) for about 3 years now. We have a yearly evaluation to confirm whether or not we are doing our job correctly. If we do not receive a satisfactory evaluation, we are not offered a contract for the next year. Part of our evaluation considers how well we work with our team.

    This team member consistently does not meet deadlines, turn things in on time, etc., and it reflects badly on the team. When one of us is not upholding our duties, we all look bad. She has a very strong personality, and everyone on our team is afraid to "speak up" about it to her. I have approached her about it in the past, with a very nice attitude (i.e. "I really don't want you to get in trouble for this; trying to help you out"), and she has responded in a very hostile way, with zero change to the situation.

    I feel the issue needs to be taken care of. Which do you think would be more professional, and why?

    1. Approach her yet again, and run the risk of her being hostile/starting an argument/being angry with the team.

    2. Make our administrators aware of it. (I really don't want to be a tattle, though.)


    Thank you for your help!
    Straight up: that person feels they are doing fine. You NEED to lay it out straight, but make sure you have ample backup of all the issues that's been ongoing. Unless you have evidence to back it, it will be just argumentative. It's hard to argue against if your concerns have the evidence to back it. Then you flat out have to say that it can't be tolerated anymore and if they are unwilling to fix the problem, you can get someone else that will.
    It's not personal, it's business.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • QueenJayJay
    QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
    Is corporal punishment still allowed in schools?

    :laugh: In ours, actually, yes. The parents decided on it.
    mmmm teacher spanking...hot!

    clark+_b1b5ff1bc44c77df8352adca62619478.jpg
  • iuangina
    iuangina Posts: 691 Member
    We had this issue on my team last year. One person was constantly not doing her part and refused to hear anything anyone else had to say. I tried 4 or 5 times to address the issues that were impacting our team during our meetings and it failed each time. As the team leader, I asked our administrator to sit in on our next team meeting, so we could work it out with a neutral party. I would be willing to bet that your administrator already knows about the issues. They seem to have eyes and ears everywhere. It was not to get anyone in trouble, but it needed to be addressed with a neutral party there because the "weak link" refused to listen to us (she ended up telling on herself with her attitude and refusal to listen to the rest of us). It fixed the problem for the remainder of the year and the person with the issue was moved to a different grade level (where they did not team teach).

    Good luck! I wouldn't want to be a tattle either, but sometimes it's necessary especially when it directly impacts your students.
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