Losing weight at 1800 cals per day?

There is no such thing as "keeping the body guessing". It doesn't work like that. Zig-zagging, carb cycling and the like have NO impact on the metabolism. Most people doing such things shouldn't be doing them in the first place.

High calorie day don't "qualms your body's fear of starvation".

Sure it does, if done correctly.

The problem is - you must enter dieting with a full burning metabolism and then do these things.

If you've been already underfeeding your BMR as you have mentioned several times, the metabolism just slows.

Start doing zig-zag and spike days doesn't fool your body to start increasing the BMR usually. Body just looks at each increased calories as a gift and stores it as fat, with metabolism staying low.

But if you come into dieting with those things, it basically keeps you from undercutting your BMR on a constant basis.

So what would have taken 2-6 weeks to start lowering BMR, is allowed to stay high.

Of course, the smarter method as you have mentioned is just don't net below your BMR in the first place. Or correct that part now. Same effect, while learning NOT to pig out 1 day a week.

I can only say what my body is doing. Like many, when I first started here at MFP, I was eating 1200 calories with no exercise calories. I started zig-zagging in October. Then, in January, I became convinced that I should eat more based on the many excellent posts on the subject (including some of yours). I started eating back my exercise calories most days (but still a bit low some days to allow me to keep zig-zagging). After I had gotten used to this for awhile, I raised my net by 100 calories/day for several weeks. Then another 100 calories/day so I am now netting above my BMR. Even on my lower calorie days, I don't go below my BMR as I usually have big enough calorie burns to bank some to eat later that week. (I just really like saving those calories for splurges at social events. It makes this not even seem like any kind of diet, no deprivation. I never thought it was possible to lose and not feel deprived so this is a great thing for me.)

Anyway, each time I raise my calories, I stall my weight loss for a few weeks but then start losing again after my body adjusts to it. I'm actually thinking of upping my calories 100/day in another month or so and to keep doing this every month to see how high I can push this and still lose.

I'm a 54yo, post-menopausal woman who has been battling my weight since my first pregnancy (and she's almost 30). And did a lot of yo-yo dieting and dumb stuff (like MediFast) during those years and know I had a severely damaged metabolism when I started this. Heck, it took me 3 weeks to lose my first 1# when I started at 1200 calories, at a time when most people lose considerably. And, for years, I've never been able to eat what others can eat. Example: spending the day with a thin friend who ate three full meals during that day while I only ate one meal and a very small snack. We ate the same breakfast but she was starving at lunch. I was so full from breakfast that my stomach still hurt from fullness. When she ate dinner, I had soup (my snack). Anyway, I'm digressing....

I've lost 8# in the two months since I really started focusing on upping my calories. And I zig-zag. So I don't think I'm just packing on fat those days as you claim should be happening. And that time-frame includes a vacation week where I ate way over my calories as I didn't even try to stay within my calorie range, just enjoyed myself, and only gained 2# doing it which, for me, is amazing because I used to be able to gain 5# (yeah, I know it wasn't all fat) just from one big meal. Of course, I'm sure my exercise program (heavy lifting, HIIT, with more limited steady-state cardio) is helping with that.

It's late. I'm tired and rambling. Sorry.

Everyone is different, there are no cookie cutter diets that work for one, but not the other - you need to go through trial and error, find what works and what doesn't - when you know what your body can take you adjust in small increments to find the sweet spot in the middle of gaining and loosing. Bump and jump till you find that happy medium.

I know guys who can cut while taking in 3000 calories and some who need to take in 1000 a day, it's genetics, body type and lifestyle.

There is no such thing as "keeping the body guessing". It doesn't work like that. Zig-zagging, carb cycling and the like have NO impact on the metabolism. Most people doing such things shouldn't be doing them in the first place.

High calorie day don't "qualms your body's fear of starvation".

Sure it does, if done correctly.

The problem is - you must enter dieting with a full burning metabolism and then do these things.

If you've been already underfeeding your BMR as you have mentioned several times, the metabolism just slows.

Start doing zig-zag and spike days doesn't fool your body to start increasing the BMR usually. Body just looks at each increased calories as a gift and stores it as fat, with metabolism staying low.

But if you come into dieting with those things, it basically keeps you from undercutting your BMR on a constant basis.

So what would have taken 2-6 weeks to start lowering BMR, is allowed to stay high.

Of course, the smarter method as you have mentioned is just don't net below your BMR in the first place. Or correct that part now. Same effect, while learning NOT to pig out 1 day a week.

I believe we're in agreement here. Did you not read my next statement?

There is no such thing as "keeping the body guessing". It doesn't work like that. Zig-zagging, carb cycling and the like have NO impact on the metabolism. Most people doing such things shouldn't be doing them in the first place.

High calorie day don't "qualms your body's fear of starvation".

Sure it does, if done correctly.

The problem is - you must enter dieting with a full burning metabolism and then do these things.

If you've been already underfeeding your BMR as you have mentioned several times, the metabolism just slows.

Start doing zig-zag and spike days doesn't fool your body to start increasing the BMR usually. Body just looks at each increased calories as a gift and stores it as fat, with metabolism staying low.

But if you come into dieting with those things, it basically keeps you from undercutting your BMR on a constant basis.

So what would have taken 2-6 weeks to start lowering BMR, is allowed to stay high.

Of course, the smarter method as you have mentioned is just don't net below your BMR in the first place. Or correct that part now. Same effect, while learning NOT to pig out 1 day a week.

I can only say what my body is doing. Like many, when I first started here at MFP, I was eating 1200 calories with no exercise calories. I started zig-zagging in October. Then, in January, I became convinced that I should eat more based on the many excellent posts on the subject (including some of yours). I started eating back my exercise calories most days (but still a bit low some days to allow me to keep zig-zagging). After I had gotten used to this for awhile, I raised my net by 100 calories/day for several weeks. Then another 100 calories/day so I am now netting above my BMR. Even on my lower calorie days, I don't go below my BMR as I usually have big enough calorie burns to bank some to eat later that week. (I just really like saving those calories for splurges at social events. It makes this not even seem like any kind of diet, no deprivation. I never thought it was possible to lose and not feel deprived so this is a great thing for me.)

Anyway, each time I raise my calories, I stall my weight loss for a few weeks but then start losing again after my body adjusts to it. I'm actually thinking of upping my calories 100/day in another month or so and to keep doing this every month to see how high I can push this and still lose.

I'm a 54yo, post-menopausal woman who has been battling my weight since my first pregnancy (and she's almost 30). And did a lot of yo-yo dieting and dumb stuff (like MediFast) during those years and know I had a severely damaged metabolism when I started this. Heck, it took me 3 weeks to lose my first 1# when I started at 1200 calories, at a time when most people lose considerably. And, for years, I've never been able to eat what others can eat. Example: spending the day with a thin friend who ate three full meals during that day while I only ate one meal and a very small snack. We ate the same breakfast but she was starving at lunch. I was so full from breakfast that my stomach still hurt from fullness. When she ate dinner, I had soup (my snack). Anyway, I'm digressing....

I've lost 8# in the two months since I really started focusing on upping my calories. And I zig-zag. So I don't think I'm just packing on fat those days as you claim should be happening. And that time-frame includes a vacation week where I ate way over my calories as I didn't even try to stay within my calorie range, just enjoyed myself, and only gained 2# doing it which, for me, is amazing because I used to be able to gain 5# (yeah, I know it wasn't all fat) just from one big meal. Of course, I'm sure my exercise program (heavy lifting, HIIT, with more limited steady-state cardio) is helping with that.

It's late. I'm tired and rambling. Sorry.

It appears your slowly adding calories, and your body is adapting. You're still losing weight so, that mean you're still in a deficit. There are some many factors. Regardless, who gonna complain about eating more food?

I recently upped my calories from about 1400 per day to 1775. I had been on weight watchers and lost 49.5 lbs in 6 months then stalled out that close to 50. Toyed with the same 3 lbs, gained 3 then lost 2 then lost another one just to gain the three back again. Never getting to 50 lbs lost and never gaining back more than three. After 5 months of that I decided to try MFP and was on here I guess a little over a month and a half. Still the same results. Upped my calories last week and weighed in this week. 50.2 lbs lost. So far, so good.

On loads of food packets in the UK it is stated that the RDA for a woman is 2000 calories.

So adjusting things for height, weight and activity 1,800 should give weight loss for most woman.

1,800 calories is higher than most diets but then its lower than what most woman eat when not trying to lose weight. You should get a slow and steady weight loss on 1,800 but be aware that a woman's weight changes through natural cycles so you may put on a little bit some weeks but this will be compensated by a greater loss other weeks.

This is one thing that escapes people's attention - if 2000 is the daily recommended amount, most women should be able to lose weight eating between 1600-1800.

I have been watching these post with interest. But what about us older people. Would it make any difference if your older and not hardly as active as the younger ones are? I don't do the zumba and alot of the harder exercises. Mostly walking....

Just wondered if anyone has an opinion for us folks too!!

I have been watching these post with interest. But what about us older people. Would it make any difference if your older and not hardly as active as the younger ones are? I don't do the zumba and alot of the harder exercises. Mostly walking....

Just wondered if anyone has an opinion for us folks too!!

You actually have a better chance of not sabotaging your body by undereating and over exercising.

For you, those walks are exactly the type of exercise that pulls mainly from fat stores (unless you are doing 9% incline and 4mph and HR is 150 bpm!), and therefore does NOT need to be re-fed.

Your BMR estimate is going to be just as accurate as anyone else outside healthy weight - meaning it's not as accurate, but you must start somewhere. As you keep going down in weight, that estimated healthy BMR value is more accurate.

So, to have MFP keep giving estimates of weight loss each day and automatically lower your goal as weight drops, do the following.

So go to MFP - Tools - BMR calc and get that figure noted.
Then go to MFP - Home - Goals and see what MFP has as your Calories Burned from normal daily activity.
Subtract BMR from daily burned - that is a very rough estimate of your range of deficit possible.
If between 200-450, you can set 1/2 lb weekly.
If between 500-740, you can set to 1 lb weekly.
If between 750-990, you can set to 1.5 lb weekly.
If above 1000, you can set to 2 lb weekly.
Now go to MFP - Settings - Diet/Fitness Profile - change weekly weight loss goal to accomplish the above math.
So if you had a range of 300, then set to 1/2 lb weekly.

Now when you walk, you can log that workout if desired, but opposite advice from intense workouts - do NOT eat back those exercise calories.
Again, as long as the walk is gentle, 3mph or slower, this is just increased daily activity and fed mainly by fat stores.
You don't even have to log them unless you just want to see the calorie burn associated with them. And walking calories burned is usually the more accurate ones.
If you start doing something more intense like 4mph walks or workouts - eat those calories back.

What will be your true weight loss potential?
The difference between your daily goal, and whatever your true daily activity is. Which is going to be much higher than 250 or 500 you saw in the math. MFP doesn't know what your true daily calorie burn is.
after a few weeks doing this - you'll know precisely what the deficit is, as your weight drops on regular basis.

You can shoot me a private message with stats if you want me to run your numbers, because you can be visually encourage even more if your activity level could be selected to be closer to what you will actually be doing.

Ok. Interesting info...but I think I just got confused. How does this all relate to previous talks/calculations of TDEE? I sort of understood the TDEE talks but wasn't sure how to enter or track this on MFP. I thought your post would help :-/

My BMR differs depending which calculator I use. MFP calculates it at 1507; Fat2Fit says it's 1560 (Harris-Benedict formula) and 1680 (Katch-McArdle method)??

My TDEE is 2132 (told to use TDEE-15% on non-workout days=1800)

So, what am I supposed to be tracking on MFP?

Help :-/

Well, the advice is to eat between BMR and TDEE, in her case, right at BMR, since no real intense workouts.

So your best bet BMR calc is the bodyfat% Katch at 1680. The others are estimates more accurate at healthy weight.
Congrats, you have more muscle than formulas are expecting!

If you are using a HRM and fine eating back all those exercise calories, you could net at 1700 while feeding the workout.

That makes your real deficit (if you trust the TDEE estimate anyway) 432, but likely slightly higher.
So even eating back exercise calories, pretty close to 1 lb/week loss.

So how to setup MFP to track that 1700 and lower automatically as your weight goes down?

Settings - Diet/Fitness Profile
Activity level set to Lightly Active
Set weight loss goal to 1 lb week.

Daily goal should be slightly higher than 1700.
Not when you exercise, log it and eat it.

This is interesting! I have been plateaued for nearly 6 months (give or take a few pounds), I too, had my calories set at 1200 but would eat most of my exercise calories back. I am 180, 5'10. I work out 5-6 days a week. I teach body attack 1x week, trx straps 2x week, spin 2-3x week and I am currently training to become a Xco instructor at my gym (I will be teaching 3 classes a week) and in May I am going to be doing training to be a spin instructor. I figured at 1200 cals plus my exercise cals (averaged 500) so 1700 ish that would be good enough...but some days I would net under 1200...needless to say i was hungry and not losing. This week I have upped my calories and average eating about 1800=1900, so hopefully I will start to lose! I know that my trainer says its 85% diet and 15% exercise. I am trying to eat cleaner and more regularly<

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Think this is more important than who many calories

Oh, for anyone wondering what the multipliers are and the difference between the levels.
I know sometimes just 150 (225 in first jump) on MFP so not that much off. But the other TDEE calcs, over 250 between levels. Be truly at the wrong end of a level, and you could have 1/2 lb weight loss difference.

For someone with a 1500 cal BMR estimate, selecting the different levels, here is the MFP maintenance estimate, and TDEE estimate.

Interesting, just found out that MFP changed the multiplier for the Sedentary Level. MFP and every other TDEE site always uses 1.2 there, it is now 1.25.

This automatically gives some protection to not undercutting the BMR as bad when you select 1lb weight loss and Sedentary.

Interesting - perhaps they are hearing discussions of stalls and eating below BMR so much.
Anyway, new tables then.

MFP activity levels and multiplier and effect on 1500 BMR
Sedentary_____ 1.25 __ 1875
Lightly Active___ 1.35 __ 2025
Active________ 1.45 __ 2175
Very Active_____ 1.55 __ 2325

TDEE activity levels and multiplier and effect on 1500 BMR
Sedentary_____ 1.2 ___ 1800
Lightly active___ 1.375 _ 2063
Mod. active____ 1.55 __ 2325
Very active_____ 1.725 _ 2588
Extra Active____ 1.9 ___ 2850

When I started with MFP somehow my calorie goal was set at 1200 so that was what I was trying to stick to. Having read many posts about the importance of eating back your exercise calories I started to do that too.

The past couple of weeks I seem to have stalled out so yesterday I set my weight loss goal to 1 pound a week and MFP upped my calorie goal to 1550. I try to do some form of exercise everyday. Either a 30 minute power walk, 30 minutes on a treadmill or elliptical, and some workout DVD's. I wear a HRM to determine calories burned.

I am 64 years old, 5' 4", current weight is 216 pounds. Do you think that the new calorie goal of 1550 is right for me?

Any advice gratefully accepted.