Red meat can kill!!!!

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Replies

  • castadiva
    castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member
    Re the surgeon giving advice on what foods cause heart disease - to paraphrase a quote from a post in these forums the other day -

    It's as reliable as asking a mechanic for advice on how to drive.

    I think it's safe to assume that a surgeon is speaking from an informed platform, given that staying up-to-date on the latest research and speaking to colleagues/attending field-specific training is very much a part of any senior medic's job these days. Surgeons do not operate (oops, bad pun!) in a vacuum.
  • kezereth
    kezereth Posts: 41
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    I believe the only way red meat will kill me is if it's still breathing, and angry.

    haha ok i laughed....

    I don't understand why they try to scare us with things that at one point they were encouraging us to eat... you just can't win! I have given up my ciggarettes and my alcohol but screw you government, you're not having my beef!!!
  • susannamarie
    susannamarie Posts: 2,148 Member
    If we listened to all of this crap we'd be stuck in a bubble. I take all of it with a pinch of salt now.

    Don't do that, salt is bad for you too!

    :)
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
    Well that's the latest health scare in the news today anyway.

    Can i just start banging my head against a wall now, in readiness for the next one. Every week, something is really bad for you, and the next it's good.

    I can't keep up!!

    I'll carry on down the "everything in moderation" route I think :-)

    This is bunk. Question everything.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member

    Apparently it's bad for the endocrine system... Just read a really interesting article written by a heart surgeon who said that the anti-cholesterol/anti-fat focus of the 80s and 90s was a)wrong - inflammation causes heart disease, not fats or cholesterol, and b) has created the obesity and diabetes surges we are now seeing. Science is based on theory, and often gets it wrong.

    That wouldn't be the article by the same heart surgeon who was stripped of his license to practice in 2008 would it?

    Science is based on observations that either support or disprove a hypothesis, observations that can be replicated and yes, science changes over time as we learn new things. Pseudoscience is based on unproven hypothesis and even in the light of overwhelming evidence "true believers" rarely will change their acceptance of the myth as fact.

    Not sure about the Doc's licensing status - didn't check, as it came from a fairly reputable source, but as inflammation is now widely held to be the cause of heart disease among the senior medical fraternity (even if that message hasn't filtered through to the Health boards, GPs etc) licensed or not, he was on the right track. You put my point about science rather better than I did - the folly of being succinct on these boards is that one doesn't always say exactly what one means in great detail :blushing:

    My mother in laws cardiologist said the same thing. Heart Disease is a product of the body being chronically inflamed and has nothing to do with saturated fat or cholesterol.

    My mother in law also suffered from a hiatal hernia and couldn't eat certain foods and had really bad arthritis symptoms.

    My MIL's heart Doc put her on an anti-inflammatory eating plan which is similar to the Paleo lifestyle I live and she has no more heart issues, arthritis pains have disappeared and hiatal hernia is doing much better where she can eat foods she thought she had to give up for life.

    Apparantly the gluten grains were contributing to her health issues.

    The only grains my MIL eats is small amounts of white rice and steel cut oats. The rest of her eating plan is protein, fats, vegetables and fruit.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
    If certain foods are so dangerous why don't they ban them instead of getting people to eat them, most likely get cancer like they are saying and spend money on trying to cure these diseases... So stupid sometimes...

    I've been eating red meat since I could probably chew lol.

    If you look at some of health risks of red meat here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_meat

    You got colorectal cancer, esophageal cancer, lung, pancreatic, edometrial, breast, stomach, lymphoma, bladder, prostate. and kidney cancer. Heart disease, diabetes, acute cornonary syndrome, stroke, obesity, hypertension and arthiritis...

    They did a test for obesity and red meat. Higher intake of total protein AND protein from animal sources, so I am assuming on top of what they were eating originally, they had to add red meat into the mix. Which would obviously cause weight gain because you are basically eating more calories than you were before.

    I was eating red meat when I was trying to lose weight and I was still losing weight. I didn't even count calories, macros or anything. I just ate smaller portions and cut out deep fried foods and takeaways.

    I had a 9.44 ounce grass fed ribeye slathered with Kerry Gold grass fed butter with a salad last night for supper and I am down 2 pounds this morning..............

    I find I lose easier the more red meat I eat.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
    You know I was thinking...............

    I wonder if this study was done with grain fed beef (which cows were not meant to eat because they are ruminant animals) or with their natural food, grass fed and free pastured?

    I am willing to bet this study was done using grain fed cattle.
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
    I finally got a chance to read the whole article in the paper today and the assertions are based on a study that followed what should be a statistically significant sample for over 20 years. Sadly the story in paper asks more questions than it answers, for example the study asserts that eating even modest amounts of red meat increased the probability of dying by 13% and if you consumed processed red meat that jumps to 20%.

    Now that sounds good but, did the researchers track causes of death? (it doesn't say in the newspaper)

    My only takeaway from this is that the newspaper reporting is pretty much useless without reading the entire study and supporting data. On the surface it appears to be another case of correlation which is not causation.
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
    You know I was thinking...............

    I wonder if this study was done with grain fed beef (which cows were not meant to eat because they are ruminant animals) or with their natural food, grass fed and free pastured?

    I am willing to bet this study was done using grain fed cattle.

    And the difference in nutritional value that you're implying is??

    I'm aware that corn a grain feed along with large numbers of cattle cramped together at feedlots is largely responsible for the increased levels of e-coli, are there other implications?
  • RAFValentina
    RAFValentina Posts: 1,231 Member
    And applying logic ... who died of it so far? Just 'cos someone's test tube uncontrolled badly managed study says so, doesn't mean its true or actually in real life is even a factor in conjunction with everything else that goes off...
  • Kap10
    Kap10 Posts: 229 Member
    Red meat kills is a well known fact ... I went in a field and this great big lump of red meat with hooves chased me, if it had caught me then I would have been dead
  • hlandry6
    hlandry6 Posts: 230
    So does smoking.....but that's not stopping anyone
  • HauteP1nk
    HauteP1nk Posts: 2,139 Member
    Too much of anything can turn into a bad thing.
  • QueenJayJay
    QueenJayJay Posts: 1,079 Member
    So can cars, toilets, and scissors. Maybe we shouldn't use them? :noway:
  • meglynne1987
    meglynne1987 Posts: 382 Member
    Love stuff like this - I honestly believe that if you were to collect all the food scare stories together and follow them, you would actually not be able to eat anything at all.

    Well Said!
  • TeutonicKnight
    TeutonicKnight Posts: 367 Member
    This is why I stick to eating bald eagles and spotted owls.
  • chell53
    chell53 Posts: 352 Member
    Saw that advertised on TV tonight.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, but as you said, with the number of foods which are one day great for us and suddenly toxic the next, it's best not to read too much in to it.

    Next it will be oxygen - it's bad for you, don't leave the house11!!111 ;)


    love your line "Next it will be oxygen-it's bad for you don't leave the house!".........this is just what I needed to laugh, thanks
  • callmeBAM
    callmeBAM Posts: 445 Member
    I bet this study had an agenda. I bet the researchers are vegans, lol.

    Red meat is PART of a balanced diet. It provides many minerals and nutrients we need. It also brings happiness :)
  • kardsharp
    kardsharp Posts: 516 Member
    I've been reading about the bad effects of overeating, drinking, dieting, smoking and sex. I decided to give up reading.

    Kristine
  • dtucker4403
    dtucker4403 Posts: 47 Member
    ******Breaking News******

    Scientists have discovered that the leading cause of death is being born. Based on the observation that 100% of persons born in the 19th century have since died it has been determined that there is a direct correlation between being born and dying.



    This is a good one. Very true :)
  • carriem73
    carriem73 Posts: 333 Member
    NEWS FLASH- Breathing oxygen is bad for your health!!!

    Seriously, this is just ridiculous- anything and everything can be bad for you, moderation is key!
  • vabchloser
    vabchloser Posts: 223 Member
    Watch a movie called Forks Over Knives on Netflix.

    I quit all meet except chicken some time ago. It took quite some time for the transformation to happen, but I eat mostly a plant based diet.

    I bought $65 in groceries the other day. $20 was chicken, $45 was all fresh fruit and vegis and that is all I had to eat for the week. It's fabulous once you get it rolling!!
  • rileamoyer
    rileamoyer Posts: 2,412 Member
    I evolved from the carnivore branch of the family tree! LoL
  • cnodaddy
    cnodaddy Posts: 1
    "People are starving all over the world, what do you mean, 'red meat will kill you'? Don't eat no red meat? No, don't eat no GREEN MEAT. If you lucky enough to get your hands on a steak, bite the s**t out of it!"

    -Chris Rock
    Bring the Pain (HBO, 1996)
  • Hev_uk
    Hev_uk Posts: 82 Member
    There is actual real evidence to suggest that eating too much processed red meat, particularly smoked bacon and sausages, can increase the risk of bowel cancer. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15956652?dopt=Abstract. But if you just have your bacon sandwich with granary bread containing lots of fibre then you'll be fine.

    A good overview of diet and cancer http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/causes/lifestyle/diet/#source37

    It really is everything in moderation and making healthy choices. The most important thing to prevent deaths from bowel cancer is to see you doctor if you have a change in your bowel habit (particularly getting diarrhoea) or blood in your poo.

    The Daily Mail (a daily paper in the UK) is famous for finding things that cause cancer. Go to http://kill-or-cure.heroku.com/ before you eat or do anything to work out your chances
  • HisMissus
    HisMissus Posts: 119 Member
    Red meat can kill...as can being run over by a bus :grumble:
  • bluebird321
    bluebird321 Posts: 733 Member
    An abstract from the article.

    http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/archinternmed.2011.2287

    here is a link to the table data regarding lifestyle. There seem to be a bunch of other correlating factors?

    http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content-nw/full/archinternmed.2011.2287v1/IOI110027T1
  • alj322003
    alj322003 Posts: 11 Member
    This study must have been done in california since everything is know to cause cancer in the state of california. Luck for me I don't live in california so I am ok to eat red meat.
  • Athijade
    Athijade Posts: 3,300 Member
    An abstract from the article.

    http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/archinternmed.2011.2287

    here is a link to the table data regarding lifestyle. There seem to be a bunch of other correlating factors?

    http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content-nw/full/archinternmed.2011.2287v1/IOI110027T1

    Did they run an ANOVA on all the variables? I would be interested to see the correlations.

    Honestly, it reads like they went in LOOKING for it to happen. As such, I am doubting they did much work on restricting other variables or spending time figuring the correlation of other variables on the mortality rates.
  • msslimann
    msslimann Posts: 122
    With what they feed the animals and the pesticides they use on crops also what is used in processing foods is enough to kill everyone. And I believe it is the cause of so many disceases today. When you have to have some types of lab work done they will tell you not to eat red meat for 3 days or a week before. I have thought about stop eating meats all together just eating nuts, fruits and veggies. But it is kinda hard so I eat mostly chicken and fish even tho at one time it was not supposed to be safe to eat that. So I would say go on and eat it if you want ,but in moderation.
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