Broscience versus REAL SCIENCE

So you deny the fact that loads of glucose spikes insulin levels and that spiked insulin levels cause you to be in a perfect state for taking in nutrients?

You're assuming that this actually leads to improved results when that's been scientifically established that it hasn't. Please go read the works of Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon and be enlightened to your erroneous ways.

Dude, this guy weighed 123 POUNDS. I'm 5'0 and I weigh more (no offense! again!). He needs food in any form he chooses. I think he's done well and probably doesn't need to focus on incredibly minute details at this point in time.

Would you not say by consuming this absurd amount of glucose pre-, peri-, and post-workout that he IS incredibly focused on those minute details?

I would say he's not hurting anything. Look, he eats 4500 calories. He's probably one of those lucky ba$tards who can eat whatever he wants without gaining a lb. :laugh:

I don't really believe that. He's probably just someone who doesn't consume a lot of calories, which is why he stays so light. I have a friend who is 6'0 123lbs and claims he eats outrageous amounts of food. I've seen his eating habits and they're nowhere near enough to put on weight, even if he was a three year old girl.

While, no, he may not be hurting anything (other than his wallet), is it necessary? You're just going back on what you said now.

So you deny the fact that loads of glucose spikes insulin levels and that spiked insulin levels cause you to be in a perfect state for taking in nutrients?

You're assuming that this actually leads to improved results when that's been scientifically established that it hasn't. Please go read the works of Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon and be enlightened to your erroneous ways.

Dude, this guy weighed 123 POUNDS. I'm 5'0 and I weigh more (no offense! again!). He needs food in any form he chooses. I think he's done well and probably doesn't need to focus on incredibly minute details at this point in time.

Would you not say by consuming this absurd amount of glucose pre-, peri-, and post-workout that he IS incredibly focused on those minute details?

I would say he's not hurting anything. Look, he eats 4500 calories. He's probably one of those lucky ba$tards who can eat whatever he wants without gaining a lb. :laugh:

I don't really believe that. He's probably just someone who doesn't consume a lot of calories, which is why he stays so light. I have a friend who is 6'0 123lbs and claims he eats outrageous amounts of food. I've seen his eating habits and they're nowhere near enough to put on weight, even if he was a three year old girl.

While, no, he may not be hurting anything (other than his wallet), is it necessary? You're just going back on what you said now.

No I'm not. I'm pretty sure this entire time I've been saying he can do whatever the hell he wants....double-checking...yep. 100% idgaf.

I'm going to go out on a limb, that even if there are studies that shows it is effective, it's probably in the range of 5 or 10% more effective. Additionally many studies are done on performance athletes, not your average joe.
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I thought maximum monthly muscle gain was ~2 lbs. Is there some magic to get 4 lbs?
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I've always thought bro-science was stuff you hear in the gym that isn't verifiable or just ludicrous. I heard a guy say he ate some protein shot or whatnot prior to working out and could instantly lift 20% more. Placebo most likely.

Placebo effect....if it still has an effect, awesome! Even if the protein shot didn't do anything, by lifting heavier he stressed his muscles more which WILL have an effect.
There's no maximum monthly gain.

Are you sure you don't want to rephrase? Are you telling me a natty lifter can gain as 10lbs of muscle in one month?

It boils down to diet and genetics in the end. I'll give you the figures and you can punch them in.

Start weight: 145 lbs (With a fat percentage of 14%)
After 8-9 weeks weight: 162.8 lbs (with a fat percentage of 16%)

May I ask how this body fat percentage was arrived at? What method did you use to test it? I eagerly await your response.

I don't really believe that. He's probably just someone who doesn't consume a lot of calories, which is why he stays so light. I have a friend who is 6'0 123lbs and claims he eats outrageous amounts of food. I've seen his eating habits and they're nowhere near enough to put on weight, even if he was a three year old girl.

While, no, he may not be hurting anything (other than his wallet), is it necessary? You're just going back on what you said now.

You seem to misread my posts. I do not stay lite. I picked up 17 lbs in 2 months. I started training and eating the right calories and picked up. I weight 162 pounds now. I eat 3500 to 4500 calories a day.

I'm pretty sure he does. If what he's doing is working, why must you pick holes in it? There's a whole psychological side to this you don't seem to account for, and the value of energy on demand during a workout cannot be underestimated.

Because he believes in something that's pointless? This is what you don't get. By allowing people to constantly believe in asinine things you are essentially encouraging people to continually do them. Then you have people who don't actually want to do it actually think it works. He might go advise other people to do the same as him and these people may prefer to eat calories from whole foods yet they don't because someone suggests that copious amounts of whey and glucose timed works miracles.

You see where I'm going? This is the same thing that the effects of meal frequency and how people recommend 5-6 meals when it doesn't make a lick of difference for the average joe. This is the same as someone saying eating clean helps you lose more fat when it doesn't. It can and does complicate people's lives. For every person it works for, it fails for many other people and they never progress.

So, sure, he's happy but what about the people he will eventually advise? Then they start doing dumb **** that doesn't work and then more people. The truth then becomes obscure and this when we run into the problem that correctness isn't necessarily the truth but what the majority believes. Sorry I can't accept such a silly thing as to obscure truth.

I'm pretty sure he does. If what he's doing is working, why must you pick holes in it? There's a whole psychological side to this you don't seem to account for, and the value of energy on demand during a workout cannot be underestimated.

Because he believes in something that's pointless? This is what you don't get. By allowing people to constantly believe in asinine things you are essentially encouraging people to continually do them.

Like how you keep typing?













:bigsmile:

Because he believes in something that's pointless? This is what you don't get. By allowing people to constantly believe in asinine things you are essentially encouraging people to continually do them. Then you have people who don't actually want to do it actually think it works. He might go advise other people to do the same as him and these people may prefer to eat calories from whole foods yet they don't because someone suggests that copious amounts of whey and glucose timed works miracles.

You see where I'm going? This is the same thing that the effects of meal frequency and how people recommend 5-6 meals when it doesn't make a lick of difference for the average joe. This is the same as someone saying eating clean helps you lose more fat when it doesn't. It can and does complicate people's lives. For every person it works for, it fails for many other people and they never progress.

So, sure, he's happy but what about the people he will eventually advise? Then they start doing dumb **** that doesn't work and then more people. The truth then becomes obscure and this when we run into the problem that correctness isn't necessarily the truth but what the majority believes. Sorry I can't accept such a silly thing as to obscure truth.

What does your gains look like using your method?

Pssshhh, come on man, we all know you'll bash anything that isn't hydrostatic weighing. Truth is, it's all crap. Anywhere from a 3-8% margin of error even if done correctly.

To even compare a bod pod or dexa-scan to calipers would be absurd.

@Tg, calipers are extremely inaccurate. People retain fat in different areas.

KNEW IT!!!!

Okay give us the shpiel. I know you want to. I won't steal your thunder.

I wouldn't bash Dexa or a bod pod.

Pssshhh, come on man, we all know you'll bash anything that isn't hydrostatic weighing. Truth is, it's all crap. Anywhere from a 3-8% margin of error even if done correctly.

To even compare a bod pod or dexa-scan to calipers would be absurd.

@Tg, calipers are extremely inaccurate. People retain fat in different areas.

I agree with this from my experience , according to them I am 17% at the moment.

Like how you keep typing?

How I am encouraging freedom in dietary habits instead of constricted, timed, pointless things like consuming butt load of glucose? Man, I must be Big Brother!

What does your gains look like using your method?

I have not tracked muscle gains since I've been cutting down from 208. Long and arduous process. I did take my bench from 165x1 to 205x1 as well as my DL from 225x1 to 325x1 and my squat from sub-200 to 315x1. I currently weigh 156lbs and I have done all this while cutting for over a year. Nothing impressive but I've made good progress for someone who has yet to bulk. I do not have the fortune of starting out as a scrawn bag but instead I started out a big tub of ****.

Like how you keep typing?

How I am encouraging freedom in dietary habits instead of constricted, timed, pointless things like consuming butt load of glucose? Man, I must be Big Brother!

What does your gains look like using your method?

I have not tracked muscle gains since I've been cutting down from 208. Long and arduous process. I did take my bench from 165x1 to 205x1 as well as my DL from 225x1 to 325x1 and my squat from sub-200 to 315x1. I currently weigh 156lbs and I have done all this while cutting for over a year. Nothing impressive but I've made good progress for someone who has yet to bulk. I do not have the fortune of starting out as a scrawn bag but instead I started out a big tub of ****.

Well, if you are starting the bulk now, I suggest you try my method. lol.

I didn't read all of the replies, but meal timing with regard to exercise makes a difference in rats at least, and their muscle development is basically the same as ours.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10575631

Consuming glucose before and during workouts can increase performance (this study on humans).

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/1299501

And does further spiking your insulin with glucose on top of the spike that your protein shake produces yield any extra benefit for MPS?

Glucose is perfect for restoring glycogen levels in your muscles.

I didn't read all of the replies, but meal timing with regard to exercise makes a difference in rats at least, and their muscle development is basically the same as ours.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10575631

Consuming glucose before and during workouts can increase performance (this study on humans).

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/1299501

Thanks, good links!

To the OP:

I applaud you for making this post.

I would start reading as much as you can from Alan Aragon for starters.


www.alanaragon.com

Additionally, see the studies Acg just posted and hopefully this thread will continue.