What will make you fatter...?

But did you not find it interesting that despite the greater CHO in the CHO overfeeding diet and therefore more insulin, there wasn't a significant amount more fat gained by the high CHO diet?

What I found interesting is that CHO led to more increased EE, but the net result was equivalent fat gain. Does this mean the CHO eater expended more energy but also gained the same amount of weight as the fat eater?

Here's another one that dealt with overfeeding

Lammert O, et al. Effects of isoenergetic overfeeding of either carbohydrate or fat in young men. British Journal of Nutrition, 2000; 84: 233-245.

http://cnr.berkeley.edu/hellerstein-lab/pdfs/grunnet.pdf

But dude what am I missing on this? Why does it say there was more storage from overefeeding of fat, but at the same time they say the weight gain was the same among both?

What are you trying to say that increased EE due to CHO overfeeding + similar fat gains means?

I'm asking why they are saying there was more fat storage from fat overfeeding and more EE from CHO overfeeding, if the end result of both diets was the same as far as weight gain?

1000 cal excess = 1000 cal excess .......bottom line

No need to explain any further than this!

^^ This. This thread is giving me a headache.

1000 cal excess = 1000 cal excess .......bottom line

No need to explain any further than this!

^^ This. This thread is giving me a headache.

Me too. Mostly because I had to look up CHO, EE, TED. Why can't people just speak English unless they are trying to baffle ya with BS?

Carbohydrate overfeeding produced a very different picture. Progressive increases in both carbohydrate oxidation and total energy expenditure were seen with carbohydrate overfeeding. Both were evident on the first day of overfeeding and reached maximum by day 7. The increased energy expenditure seen with carbohydrate overfeeding was approximately double that which could be explained by the combination of increased TEF and increased body mass. Thus with carbohydrate overfeeding, more of the excess energy was oxidized and less stored in the body than was seen during fat overfeeding.

Makes sense. Some of those excess carbs will always be used as immediate fuel where fat is always stored, then liberated in the abcense of sufficient caloric needs and when overfeeding is present, it's not happening sufficiently.

I'm still not getting it. Figure 1 and Figure 2 seem to contradict each other when looking at those and Table 2.

If you don't believe in set points, then there is no reason for us to discuss this any further with you.

I just don't believed is some kind of mystical being that controls my body weight and where dedicated exercise and dieting protocal doesn't exist. i remember the days when I believed I couldn't change how I look or felt, but thankfully those days are in the past.

Surely the fat would make you fatter if you were still ingesting enough carbs to allow your body to do it's thang, carbs being the preferred fuel?

Imma go with fat! Going to follow this topic, hopefully I'll learn something!

Wouldn't all the carbs you were overeating lead to crazy spiking of insulin, turning you into a fat storing monster? Thought I read somewhere that carbs ---->insulin spike---->fat gain

^^^I'm more inclined to think this way, but I am insulin resistant to begin with, so carbs (especially processed carbs) are a big no-no for me.

Carbs, because they would inevitably have gluten, to which I am terribly intollerant. So, while it would give me a month of "the runs", I know it would still make me more bloated . . . giving me gurth.

If we're talking 1000 calories of just carbs, would gluten be an issue? Gluten is a protein, isn't it?

I wasn't talking about everyone, I was talking specifically about ME and the way that MY body processes the gluten protein as most often found in wheat. I PERSONALLY would have a difficult time upping my calories by 1000 calories per day in pure carb and avoiding wheat . . . mostly out of temptation.

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

Found this when I was looking for an external analysis on the study, for anyone who cares.

http://ramblingsofacarnivore.blogspot.com/

In a healthy individual, your body will shift to oxidize whatever you're feeding it. However, obese individuals are metabolically inflexible, meaning they primarily oxidize glucose regardless of whether they're being challenged with a high-fat meal. So those FA's are stored rather than being oxidized.

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

You still haven't answered my other question. Can you explain in your own words why there seems to be a contradiction between Figures 1 and 2 when looking at Table 2. True or false, the dieters gained the same amount of fat mass on both fat and CHO overfeeding? If so, how is it possible that CHO overfeeding led to higher total energy expenditure?

Let's assume you are currently maintaining on 2,000 calories a day 50/30/20 C/F/P and you were to overeat consistently by 1,000 calories of either pure carbs or pure fat for a month, which would make you fatter, or would there be no difference and why?

Curious as to what people think. I've seen people state that anything over 15g of cho in a meal will be stored as fat or that fat makes you fat etc etc. So which is worse to overeat, carbs or fats or does it not matter?

Just saw this. Didn't read the comments following. But it's an interesting question and I don't know the answer for sure, but I'm gonna guess 1000 calories of excess fat because you can skip the conversion step needed to make carbs into fat.

Now I'll read the responses and see if anyone has anything interesting to say.

But, fat isn't as insulogenic. But carbs don't increase plasma endotoxin. But the binding of endotoxin to chylomicrons destines it for the liver where it will be acetylated and filtered. And mice on high-sucrose, high-fat diets don't experience that chylomicron filtration to the same extent. AHHHHH *brain explosion*

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

I'm assuming naturally lean individuals have lower and better regulated insulin levels than overweight individuals.

If insulin has nothing to do with obesity, then why would you think that?

And can you answer the question I am still confused about? It seems like CHO overfeeding defies the laws of physics, unless someone can help me explain the discrepancy.

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

I'm assuming naturally lean individuals have lower and better regulated insulin levels than overweight individuals.

If insulin has nothing to do with obesity, then why would you think that?

And can you answer the question I am still confused about? It seems like CHO overfeeding defies the laws of physics, unless someone can help me explain the discrepancy.

The variances in insulin sensitivity and other personal metabolic behaviours are all taken into account on the outside of the energy balance equation. It's the reason carb sensitive people eat fewer carbs like people that have diabetes, PCOS etc, not to be confused with the thought that somehow lower carbs has a metabolic advantage. I eat few carbs because it helps me regulate my eating patterns so I don't overfeed on carbs I can believe for me that lower carbs have a meaning in my weight loss goal (satiating) and it's a more natural way of eating for me now.

It depends on the type of fats and carbs but I'm going with carbs. Chronically elevated levels of insulin from over consumption of carbs will lead to more fat storage. Insulin regulates our fat metabolism, the higher the insulin levels the higher fat content in our bodies.

Fat may have more calories per gram than carbs but fat makes us feel full sooner and causes a slow rise in blood sugar, if any at all, so we can fill up on less basically.