Protein/carbs intake for muscle gain and weight loss

BaseToThePlace
BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
in Health and Weight Loss
I have been told that when lifting and looking to maximise muscle gain and fat loss you need to be having a lot more protein and less carbs than what myfitnesspal recommends. I've been told to try 40/40/20 or 40/30/30, any thoughts?

I've been dieting for months and exercising regularly (I run most days and do a full upper body workout every 48 hours) . Despite seemingly rarely going over the recommended net calories on MFP, I just am not losing any weight at all and despite months of weights I'm not really developing muscle either.

I've been told the reason is insufficient protein and too much carbs, thoughts?

PS - Despite what my profile says I'm not female, I don't know how to change it.

PSS - My actual weight is irrelevant I just have a lot of fat I want to shift but can't.
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Replies

  • Lukazetta
    Lukazetta Posts: 427 Member
    I've been trying the 40/30/30 and it's working for me to lose body fat. Not losing strength at the gym either.
  • Toddrific
    Toddrific Posts: 1,114 Member
    0.80-1g of protein per 1lb of lean body weight is a good estimate of protein needs.
    0.25g of fat per 1 lb of total body weight is a good estimate for fat.
    the remaining should be carbs.

    i've mine set at 40%carb/30fat/30prot.

    Oh.
    and dont forget fiber

    ~38g a day minimum
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
    I'll try 40/30/30 - can I trust the app and not really have to worry about much else?

    Will it calculate accurately how much protein I should be having?

    Also, I can't see anywhere in the app where I can change these settings but I'll look just now.

    What I really don't want to happen, is for me to suddenly gain weight somehow and look fatter
  • Lukazetta
    Lukazetta Posts: 427 Member
    I'll try 40/30/30 - can I trust the app and not really have to worry about much else?

    Will it calculate accurately how much protein I should be having?

    Also, I can't see anywhere in the app where I can change these settings but I'll look just now.

    What I really don't want to happen, is for me to suddenly gain weight somehow and look fatter

    IMO, the website is much easier to deal with and you can change it in the goal settings: https://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/my_goals

    If you have it set to 40/30/30 - you will be taking in 30% protein per calories set to take + calories you burn from exercise. However, to lose body fat % - most people eat at a caloric deficit based on their maintenance calories (TDEE). My TDEE is around 2700 calories a day so I eat 20% under that range per day and my protein intake is around 170g per day.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
    I think I will give 40/40/20 (p/c/f) a try. I will see how I get on. Today for this it is showing that I have gone quite a bit over my fat goal and I've only had about half the protein plus low on carbs a bit too
  • Toddrific
    Toddrific Posts: 1,114 Member
    You need fat in your diet to be healthy. You want at least 50-60 grams a day...minimum.
  • Lukazetta
    Lukazetta Posts: 427 Member
    I think I will give 40/40/20 (p/c/f) a try. I will see how I get on. Today for this it is showing that I have gone quite a bit over my fat goal and I've only had about half the protein plus low on carbs a bit too

    Fat isn't always a bad thing, in general saturated fats are bad fats that you should avoid because cholesterol problems and other heart disease. Unsaturated fats are good for you but there are many types of both.
  • adriany9
    adriany9 Posts: 32
    Have a wee look at this site and set your goals for body recomp. Hope this helps

    http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

    Not sure how to do links yet but its the IF calculator
  • sphinxdust
    sphinxdust Posts: 59 Member
    This brings up a good point of a lot of confusion for people who want to lose fat. I've been attacking my fat over the last 6 years, starting out at around 40% body fat. Even now that I have very little desire to lose more fat, I find that if my proteins aren't 40% and my carbs between 20% and 30%, I start getting fat again little by little. What this means is that my fats are usually 40% or more!

    Healthy fats are very important in losing bad fat! If you eat fish like salmon, that will make you lean even though it is high in fat. You should strive to have all of your carbs come from vegetables and some fruit, completely deleting grains from your diet as much as possible (although for the first two years or so I still ate some sprouted grains and wild rice blends in moderation). Most people who take in the proper amounts of net calories and exercise with cardio will not lose weight if their carbs are too high.

    40/30/30 is a good place to start, and I like to go for 40/20/40.
  • Lukazetta
    Lukazetta Posts: 427 Member
    Have a wee look at this site and set your goals for body recomp. Hope this helps

    http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

    Not sure how to do links yet but its the IF calculator

    Good site - wish I knew about this before.
  • silkandsugar
    silkandsugar Posts: 125
    I've gained a legit amount of muscle recently and I never restricted my carb intake but I did start drinking protein shakes. I consume around twice my weight in kg so 45x2=90 grams of protein daily. So I've averaged between 80-100 more or less.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
    You need fat in your diet to be healthy. You want at least 50-60 grams a day...minimum.
    It's telling me with the ratios I've put in to have 43g fat per day. 40/40/20 is something I was recommended on another forum.

    I should add that losing fat is more important to me just now than putting on muscle, far more important. Conversely, I understand that putting on muscle increases your metabolism and helps lose fat.

    I want this APP to help me lose fat first and foremost, so far it's failing.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
    This brings up a good point of a lot of confusion for people who want to lose fat. I've been attacking my fat over the last 6 years, starting out at around 40% body fat. Even now that I have very little desire to lose more fat, I find that if my proteins aren't 40% and my carbs between 20% and 30%, I start getting fat again little by little. What this means is that my fats are usually 40% or more!

    Healthy fats are very important in losing bad fat! If you eat fish like salmon, that will make you lean even though it is high in fat. You should strive to have all of your carbs come from vegetables and some fruit, completely deleting grains from your diet as much as possible (although for the first two years or so I still ate some sprouted grains and wild rice blends in moderation). Most people who take in the proper amounts of net calories and exercise with cardio will not lose weight if their carbs are too high.

    40/30/30 is a good place to start, and I like to go for 40/20/40.
    So 40/30/30 (P/C/F) is what you would recommend for someone ultimately looking to lose a lot of fat, who has been struggling massively and is near enough approaching the end of their tether!! ??

    As I said above, I'm wanting to gain muscle, but losing fat and looking slimmer is very much the main thing.
  • Lukazetta
    Lukazetta Posts: 427 Member
    You need fat in your diet to be healthy. You want at least 50-60 grams a day...minimum.
    It's telling me with the ratios I've put in to have 43g fat per day. 40/40/20 is something I was recommended on another forum.

    I should add that losing fat is more important to me just now than putting on muscle, far more important. Conversely, I understand that putting on muscle increases your metabolism and helps lose fat.

    I want this APP to help me lose fat first and foremost, so far it's failing.

    The 40/30/30 rule or the 40/40/20 are pointless if you're not eating at the right caloric intake.

    Figure out your maintenance (TDEE) and eat under 20-25% that and you'll lose fat for sure - the rules are there so you use them while also lifting weights so you DON'T lose muscle mass while you're shedding the fat.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
    You need fat in your diet to be healthy. You want at least 50-60 grams a day...minimum.
    It's telling me with the ratios I've put in to have 43g fat per day. 40/40/20 is something I was recommended on another forum.

    I should add that losing fat is more important to me just now than putting on muscle, far more important. Conversely, I understand that putting on muscle increases your metabolism and helps lose fat.

    I want this APP to help me lose fat first and foremost, so far it's failing.

    The 40/30/30 rule or the 40/40/20 are pointless if you're not eating at the right caloric intake.

    Figure out your maintenance (TDEE) and eat under 20-25% that and you'll lose fat for sure - the rules are there so you use them while also lifting weights so you DON'T lose muscle mass while you're shedding the fat.
    Surely if I adhere to the app I should be having the correct calorific intake>?

    Otherwise there's no point in it
  • Ripken818836701
    Ripken818836701 Posts: 607 Member
    I have been told that when lifting and looking to maximise muscle gain and fat loss you need to be having a lot more protein and less carbs than what myfitnesspal recommends. I've been told to try 40/40/20 or 40/30/30, any thoughts?

    I've been dieting for months and exercising regularly (I run most days and do a full upper body workout every 48 hours) . Despite seemingly rarely going over the recommended net calories on MFP, I just am not losing any weight at all and despite months of weights I'm not really developing muscle either.

    I've been told the reason is insufficient protein and too much carbs, thoughts?

    PS - Despite what my profile says I'm not female, I don't know how to change it.

    PSS - My actual weight is irrelevant I just have a lot of fat I want to shift but can't.
    I agree with not enough protein, you should be eating 1 gram for every lb. of body weight per day but over the past 13 months ( -83 lbs.) I ate a diet that was very high in carbs and very happy with the amount of muscle I gained.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
    I'm going with 40 protein/30 carbs/30 fat
  • Ripken818836701
    Ripken818836701 Posts: 607 Member
    I'm going with 40 protein/30 carbs/30 fat
    You should be eating/drinking 30-50 grams of protein within 30-45 minutes of finishing each work out not per day. The more protein you eat the more fat you will burn and the more muscle you will gain. Also I dont know how much you weigh but from 213 lbs down to 204 lbs I ate 60 grams of fat per day.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
    I'm going with 40 protein/30 carbs/30 fat
    You should be eating/drinking 30-50 grams of protein within 30-45 minutes of finishing each work out not per day. The more protein you eat the more fat you will burn and the more muscle you will gain. Also I dont know how much you weigh but from 213 lbs down to 204 lbs I ate 60 grams of fat per day.
    It's percentages/ratios not quantities!
  • ladyraven68
    ladyraven68 Posts: 2,003 Member
    You need fat in your diet to be healthy. You want at least 50-60 grams a day...minimum.
    It's telling me with the ratios I've put in to have 43g fat per day. 40/40/20 is something I was recommended on another forum.

    I should add that losing fat is more important to me just now than putting on muscle, far more important. Conversely, I understand that putting on muscle increases your metabolism and helps lose fat.

    I want this APP to help me lose fat first and foremost, so far it's failing.

    The 40/30/30 rule or the 40/40/20 are pointless if you're not eating at the right caloric intake.

    Figure out your maintenance (TDEE) and eat under 20-25% that and you'll lose fat for sure - the rules are there so you use them while also lifting weights so you DON'T lose muscle mass while you're shedding the fat.
    Surely if I adhere to the app I should be having the correct calorific intake>?

    Otherwise there's no point in it

    It is an excellent method of tracking calories and nutrients, but when it comes to working out calories, it is just a fancy calculator that deducts 500-1000 from your sedentary TDEE, whilst ignoring your BMR.

    I've had more success after working out TDEE and deducting the 20% deficit from that, than I did eating at the 1200 set by MFP.
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
    I'm going with 40 protein/30 carbs/30 fat
    You should be eating/drinking 30-50 grams of protein within 30-45 minutes of finishing each work out not per day. The more protein you eat the more fat you will burn and the more muscle you will gain. Also I dont know how much you weigh but from 213 lbs down to 204 lbs I ate 60 grams of fat per day.
    Timing is irrelevant. There is a 24 hour window after a workout for recovery. All you have to do is meet your daily goals. Meal timing, and "recovery meals" are both myths.
  • albinogorilla
    albinogorilla Posts: 1,056 Member
    You need fat in your diet to be healthy. You want at least 50-60 grams a day...minimum.
    It's telling me with the ratios I've put in to have 43g fat per day. 40/40/20 is something I was recommended on another forum.

    I should add that losing fat is more important to me just now than putting on muscle, far more important. Conversely, I understand that putting on muscle increases your metabolism and helps lose fat.

    I want this APP to help me lose fat first and foremost, so far it's failing.

    The 40/30/30 rule or the 40/40/20 are pointless if you're not eating at the right caloric intake.

    Figure out your maintenance (TDEE) and eat under 20-25% that and you'll lose fat for sure - the rules are there so you use them while also lifting weights so you DON'T lose muscle mass while you're shedding the fat.
    Surely if I adhere to the app I should be having the correct calorific intake>?

    Otherwise there's no point in it

    there is plenty of room for human error, in inputting food and portions, as well as over valuing exercise................
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
    You need fat in your diet to be healthy. You want at least 50-60 grams a day...minimum.
    It's telling me with the ratios I've put in to have 43g fat per day. 40/40/20 is something I was recommended on another forum.

    I should add that losing fat is more important to me just now than putting on muscle, far more important. Conversely, I understand that putting on muscle increases your metabolism and helps lose fat.

    I want this APP to help me lose fat first and foremost, so far it's failing.

    The 40/30/30 rule or the 40/40/20 are pointless if you're not eating at the right caloric intake.

    Figure out your maintenance (TDEE) and eat under 20-25% that and you'll lose fat for sure - the rules are there so you use them while also lifting weights so you DON'T lose muscle mass while you're shedding the fat.
    Surely if I adhere to the app I should be having the correct calorific intake>?

    Otherwise there's no point in it

    It is an excellent method of tracking calories and nutrients, but when it comes to working out calories, it is just a fancy calculator that deducts 500-1000 from your sedentary TDEE, whilst ignoring your BMR.

    I've had more success after working out TDEE and deducting the 20% deficit from that, than I did eating at the 1200 set by MFP.
    According to fitness frog my TDEE is 3990.

    Going by what you suggest there, I would have to eat well over 3000 calories, which I honestly would struggle to do and really wouldn't want to do.

    To give you an idea, today according to MFP (and I've been careful to add every little thing accurately) I have had 1823 calories in total (It's nearly midnight here and I won't be having anything more of calorific content, just water). Yesterday I had 2517 (that is because I had a massive slip and ate quite a bit of ice cream - that's like a once in a year thing). The day before I had 1735.

    The only explanation must be that I'm putting myself into starvation mode or lowering my metabolism to the point I can't lose weight. BUT I SHOULD still be losing weight. I gave up drinking alcohol regularly months ago, I have been eating sensibly for months and months and exercising (weights and cardio) multiple times a week (I even was doing HIIT at one point which I was managing fine but decided that the sheer size of me (6ft 3 or 6 ft 4 and about 276 lb) might damage my treadmill.

    Please help because I'm close to giving up on this. I may as well just eat and drink what the hell I want, I'd still look exactly the same.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
    can anyone help with the above?
  • Mindmovesbody
    Mindmovesbody Posts: 399 Member
    Bump for later
  • Ripken818836701
    Ripken818836701 Posts: 607 Member
    I'm going with 40 protein/30 carbs/30 fat
    You should be eating/drinking 30-50 grams of protein within 30-45 minutes of finishing each work out not per day. The more protein you eat the more fat you will burn and the more muscle you will gain. Also I dont know how much you weigh but from 213 lbs down to 204 lbs I ate 60 grams of fat per day.
    Timing is irrelevant. There is a 24 hour window after a workout for recovery. All you have to do is meet your daily goals. Meal timing, and "recovery meals" are both myths.
    With the exception of drinking a sports drink mixed BCAA's prior too and during my workouts and drinking a protein shake right after my workouts I dont have the luxury to time my meals. But according to the following article as an example, it includes the daily meal plan for the players of the NY. Jets and was implemented by the teams Nutritionist Dr. Tom Bilella C.C.N. (Dr. Tom Bilella is an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training).
    and is very detailed down to what and how his players eat (It varies depending on the individual player) and down to the minute of when they should eat . The arcticle is located on page 80 of Muscle & Fitness NFL Training Issue called """""""" Jets Fuel, New York Jets Nutrtionist Dr. Tom Bilella, C.C.N. Shows You How To Eat For Maximum Performance."""" """"""Breakfast first thing in the morning then the players eat a meal every 2-3 hours (depending on the player) throughout the day, even on day days they do not train, to keep the body from going into a catabolic state. While post-workouts is the anabolic phase, the "growth phase" spans from workout to workout., and the goal is to maintain an anabolic environment by getting frequent feedings during the day, Bilella says, "One of the big buzzwords in sports nutrition is nutrient timing- staying in an anabolic state, whether that be pre-exercise, during,after or at other times of the day."""""

    Now I apologize but Im gonna have to go with the opinion of an actual Dr. that is also an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training.
    And by the way, in charge of the diets of each and every player on the NY. Jets (some of the best athletes in the world and worth millions of dollars) than your opinion. But like I said I dont have the luxury to time my meals.
  • AeolianHarp
    AeolianHarp Posts: 463 Member
    (1) I have been told that when lifting and looking to maximise muscle gain and fat loss you need to be having a lot more protein and less carbs than what myfitnesspal recommends.

    (2) I've been told to try 40/40/20 or 40/30/30, any thoughts?

    (3) PSS - My actual weight is irrelevant I just have a lot of fat I want to shift but can't.

    I've broken it down in to numbers to make it more organized.

    (1) Don't worry about maximizing muscle gain while trying to lose fat. Just focus on getting down the fat. Whether muscle gains come or not can become an arduous task, one that can lead to spinning of one's wheels. If you want any of hope of gaining muscle, do not go on a severe caloric deficit.

    (2) Percentages are pretty awful. Calculate via minimums to ensure that you're at least hitting minimum requirements of everything. From there, you would allocate the rest of your calories how you would like.

    For example, I am 152lbs. I use the minimum of 1g/lb of LBM but since I have no clue what my LBM is I then settle for 1g/lb (you can settle for Alan Aragon's recommendation of 1g/lb of target bodyweight). From there, the minimum fat intake is 0.25-0.33g/lb (it's better to err on the higher side), so I eat a minimum of 50g a day MINIMUM. From there, I spread the rest of my 1900 calories how I want. I end up allocating around 150g to carbs and add around another 20g to fat.

    Simple. Forget about percentages. They end up being restrictive. You don't need 40% of your calories from protein, especially if you're overweight. I might err on the side of safety if you were lean(er) since protein becomes far more important the leaner you get. If you're overweight, you have the advantage of using your abundant fat stores to help restore muscle tissue and the like.

    (3) If you have a lot of fat to lose then I suggest you don't worry about things you can't control (like gaining muscle on a cut) and focus on losing fat. You can/could gain muscle but I wouldn't try and force it. It will either happen or it won't. Trying to recomposition can lead you to making very little progress, which is pointless.
    Fat isn't always a bad thing, in general saturated fats are bad fats that you should avoid because cholesterol problems and other heart disease. Unsaturated fats are good for you but there are many types of both.

    This is not true. There's nothing particularly wrong with saturated fats and it has received a bad reputation because of ****ty epidemiological studies.
    Healthy fats are very important in losing bad fat! If you eat fish like salmon, that will make you lean even though it is high in fat. You should strive to have all of your carbs come from vegetables and some fruit, completely deleting grains from your diet as much as possible (although for the first two years or so I still ate some sprouted grains and wild rice blends in moderation). Most people who take in the proper amounts of net calories and exercise with cardio will not lose weight if their carbs are too high.

    Fats from beef and pork are just as good and can make you just as lean. Also, removing grains won't make him gain muscle any easier on a cut. All your suggestions are what one would call "broscience."
    Have a wee look at this site and set your goals for body recomp. Hope this helps

    http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

    Not sure how to do links yet but its the IF calculator

    Recomping is quite possible but he's mentioned he's quite fat. It's unnecessary for him to incorporate +20/-20 days. Martin Berkhan (inventor of Lean Gains) suggests this method for people who are much leaner (around 10% BF).
    With the exception of drinking a sports drink mixed BCAA's prior too and during my workouts and drinking a protein shake right after my workouts I dont have the luxury to time my meals.

    You don't need that luxury, so be happy you're not wasting your time and money. BCAAs are pretty moot in light of a decent protein intake.
    But according to the following article as an example, it includes the daily meal plan for the players of the NY. Jets and was implemented by the teams Nutritionist Dr. Tom Bilella C.C.N. (Dr. Tom Bilella is an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training).
    and is very detailed down to what and how his players eat (It varies depending on the individual player) and down to the minute of when they should eat . The arcticle is located on page 80 of Muscle & Fitness NFL Training Issue called """""""" Jets Fuel, New York Jets Nutrtionist Dr. Tom Bilella, C.C.N. Shows You How To Eat For Maximum Performance."""" """"""Breakfast first thing in the morning then the players eat a meal every 2-3 hours (depending on the player) throughout the day, even on day days they do not train, to keep the body from going into a catabolic state. While post-workouts is the anabolic phase, the "growth phase" spans from workout to workout., and the goal is to maintain an anabolic environment by getting frequent feedings during the day, Bilella says, "One of the big buzzwords in sports nutrition is nutrient timing- staying in an anabolic state, whether that be pre-exercise, during,after or at other times of the day."""""

    This whole thing is pointless for your average weightlifter. There is some merit to pre- and post-workout nutrition but not the immediacy of it. No one here needs any of this unless, maybe, they train multiple times a day.
    Now I apologize but Im gonna have to go with the opinion of an actual Dr. that is also an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training.

    It's unfortunate you said this because this is simply a fallacious line of thinking. To say that truth is connected to one's paper credentials is silly. Lustig used an absurd, ****ty study to support his point that sugar is toxic yet we clearly know his conclusion is stupid because of how he came to it. Just because you're a "Dr." doesn't mean anything. You can be just as stupid as someone who isn't one and make similarly erroneous conclusions.
    And by the way, in charge of the diets of each and every player on the NY. Jets (some of the best athletes in the world and worth millions of dollars) than your opinion. But like I said I dont have the luxury to time my meals.

    Who gives a ****? Seriously? He is going to get excellent results because he works with elite athletes. You're not an elite athlete. You don't need to eat like them. They need far more complex eating habits because they train multiple times a day.
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
    Fun article, but has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Anabolic and catabolic states are controlled by circadian rhythms, not by when you eat. I think the key word in that story was "buzzword," as that's all it is, really just a marketing buzzword. Also, an "appeal to authority" ("I'm going to take his advice because he has more letters after his name,") is not a valid defense. He was writing an article to sell a magazine.
  • Ripken818836701
    Ripken818836701 Posts: 607 Member
    Fun article, but has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Anabolic and catabolic states are controlled by circadian rhythms, not by when you eat. I think the key word in that story was "buzzword," as that's all it is, really just a marketing buzzword. Also, an "appeal to authority" ("I'm going to take his advice because he has more letters after his name,") is not a valid defense. He was writing an article to sell a magazine.
    Google his name than google yours! He didnt write the article and i'm sure he didnt get paid for it. Just provided the author with the meal schedule for his players and other nutrition info. But I guess maybe the Jets should hire you instead, Im sure LT. Mark Sanchez and Darrell Revis would listen to you.
  • AeolianHarp
    AeolianHarp Posts: 463 Member
    Google his name than google yours! He didnt write the article and i'm sure he didnt get paid for it. Just provided the author with the meal schedule for his players and other nutrition info. But I guess maybe the Jets should hire you instead, Im sure LT. Mark Sanchez and Darrell Revis would listen to you.

    There's no logic whatsoever to your argument. I can google Dr. Lustig yet we know for a fact that he spreads misinformation. So your point is moot.

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