Getting Ripped the "natural" way.

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  • badgerbadger1
    badgerbadger1 Posts: 954 Member
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    The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters.

    For the most part no. But it's recommended to have whey protein after a workout (it's absorbed faster) and casein protein at other times of the day (it's slowly absorbed).
    That's bro-science. There is no actual benefit to that approach. You have a 24 hour window after workouts for recovery, timing of any nutrient is unimportant, as long as you get the nutrients you need.

    I'd like to see your source, please.

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2012 Mar 28. [Epub ahead of print]
    Whey Protein does not Enhance the Adaptations to Elbow Flexor Resistance Training.
    Erskine RM, Fletcher G, Hanson B, Folland JP.
    Source
    1Institute for Performance Research, Department of Exercise and Sport Science, Manchester Metropolitan University, Crewe, United Kingdom; 2School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, Loughborough University, Loughborough, United Kingdom.
    Abstract
    PURPOSE:
    It is unclear whether protein supplementation augments the gains in muscle strength and size observed following resistance training (RT), as limitations to previous studies include small cohorts, imprecise measures of muscle size and strength, and no control of prior exercise or habitual protein intake (HPI). We aimed to determine whether whey protein supplementation affected RT-induced changes in elbow flexor muscle strength and size.
    METHODS:
    We pair-matched 33 previously untrained, healthy young men for their HPI and strength response to 3-wk RT without nutritional supplementation (followed by 6-wk no training), and then randomly assigned them to protein (PRO; n = 17) or placebo (PLA; n = 16) groups. Participants subsequently performed elbow flexor RT 3 d/wk for 12-wk and consumed PRO or PLA immediately before and after each training session. We assessed elbow flexor muscle strength [unilateral 1-RM and isometric maximum voluntary force (MVF)] and size [total volume and maximum anatomical cross-sectional area (ACSAmax) determined with MRI] before and after the 12-wk RT.
    RESULTS:
    PRO and PLA demonstrated similar increases in muscle volume (PRO, 17.0 ± 7.1% vs. PLA, 14.9 ± 4.6%; P = 0.32), ACSAmax (PRO, 16.2 ± 7.1% vs. PLA, 15.6 ± 4.4%; P = 0.80), 1-RM (PRO, 41.8 ± 21.2% vs. PLA, 41.4 ± 19.9%; P = 0.97) and MVF (PRO, 12.0 ± 9.9% vs. PLA, 14.5 ± 8.3%; P = 0.43).
    CONCLUSION:
    In the context of this study, protein supplementation did not augment elbow flexor muscle strength and size changes that occurred after 12-wk RT.

    They didn't have statistical significance, so I guess this supports your point.

    Tigersword is kinda the antithesis of a bro-scientist. Just sayin'.
  • kennethmgreen
    kennethmgreen Posts: 1,759 Member
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    The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters.

    For the most part no. But it's recommended to have whey protein after a workout (it's absorbed faster) and casein protein at other times of the day (it's slowly absorbed).
    That's bro-science. There is no actual benefit to that approach. You have a 24 hour window after workouts for recovery, timing of any nutrient is unimportant, as long as you get the nutrients you need.

    I'd like to see your source, please.

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2012 Mar 28. [Epub ahead of print]
    Whey Protein does not Enhance the Adaptations to Elbow Flexor Resistance Training.
    Erskine RM, Fletcher G, Hanson B, Folland JP.
    Source
    1Institute for Performance Research, Department of Exercise and Sport Science, Manchester Metropolitan University, Crewe, United Kingdom; 2School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, Loughborough University, Loughborough, United Kingdom.
    Abstract
    PURPOSE:
    It is unclear whether protein supplementation augments the gains in muscle strength and size observed following resistance training (RT), as limitations to previous studies include small cohorts, imprecise measures of muscle size and strength, and no control of prior exercise or habitual protein intake (HPI). We aimed to determine whether whey protein supplementation affected RT-induced changes in elbow flexor muscle strength and size.
    METHODS:
    We pair-matched 33 previously untrained, healthy young men for their HPI and strength response to 3-wk RT without nutritional supplementation (followed by 6-wk no training), and then randomly assigned them to protein (PRO; n = 17) or placebo (PLA; n = 16) groups. Participants subsequently performed elbow flexor RT 3 d/wk for 12-wk and consumed PRO or PLA immediately before and after each training session. We assessed elbow flexor muscle strength [unilateral 1-RM and isometric maximum voluntary force (MVF)] and size [total volume and maximum anatomical cross-sectional area (ACSAmax) determined with MRI] before and after the 12-wk RT.
    RESULTS:
    PRO and PLA demonstrated similar increases in muscle volume (PRO, 17.0 ± 7.1% vs. PLA, 14.9 ± 4.6%; P = 0.32), ACSAmax (PRO, 16.2 ± 7.1% vs. PLA, 15.6 ± 4.4%; P = 0.80), 1-RM (PRO, 41.8 ± 21.2% vs. PLA, 41.4 ± 19.9%; P = 0.97) and MVF (PRO, 12.0 ± 9.9% vs. PLA, 14.5 ± 8.3%; P = 0.43).
    CONCLUSION:
    In the context of this study, protein supplementation did not augment elbow flexor muscle strength and size changes that occurred after 12-wk RT.

    They didn't have statistical significance, so I guess this supports your point.
    Apples to kumquats.

    Tiger is saying when you take your protein doesn't matter - that you have a 24 hour window after workout.

    The study you are quoting is trying to determine whether protein supplements affect gains in muscle strength and size.
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
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    I "bulked" last year for 6 months to gain muscle. Had 3000 calories a day and on average around 180g of protein.

    I did have 1, sometimes 2 scoops of whey protein powder to help get this amount (24-48g protein) but it's definitely not necessary. If you can give yourself sufficient protein levels without supplements there's nothing wrong with that at all :)

    It's recommended that a person trying to build muscle, or maintain it while losing weight, should be consuming around 1g per lb of body weight, or at least per lb of lean mass.

    I didn't have any other supplements apart from that.

    This, but I only had about 130-150 grams of protein a day from food and/or whey protein.
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
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    i just want to eat food, and get muscly.

    Also, I love this. Me too.
  • MazDolly
    MazDolly Posts: 2 Member
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    I agree, MyProtein compared to other supplements online are by far the best bargain. Arrives promptly etc and their whey protein shakes taste good!
  • pastryari
    pastryari Posts: 8,646 Member
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    One word: TESTOSTERONE!

    :laugh: Yeah, I'm surprised HE didn't pay this thread a visit!

    From what I saw his wife post on a friend's status, he's banned from the forums.
  • GasMasterFlash
    GasMasterFlash Posts: 2,206 Member
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    One word: TESTOSTERONE!
    :laugh: Yeah, I'm surprised HE didn't pay this thread a visit!
    From what I saw his wife post on a friend's status, he's banned from the forums.
    I don't know what you guys are talking about. I'm referring to the hormone.
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
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    The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters.

    For the most part no. But it's recommended to have whey protein after a workout (it's absorbed faster) and casein protein at other times of the day (it's slowly absorbed).
    That's bro-science. There is no actual benefit to that approach. You have a 24 hour window after workouts for recovery, timing of any nutrient is unimportant, as long as you get the nutrients you need.

    I'd like to see your source, please.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204
    There ya go.
  • warmachinejt
    warmachinejt Posts: 2,167 Member
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    you have to consume decent protein (shoot for 100g) just taking a guess here. And lift heavy as you can to keep your body from getting rid of muscle.
  • taxidermist15
    taxidermist15 Posts: 677 Member
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    Sounds like lots of good advice people!. so all in all. get protein powder, and everything else i can get from food.

    ok so difference between whey, soy, casein, blah blah blah?

    apparently soy is better for women than men cause it has oestrogen in it or something ? oh god, this is hard!
  • beckylawrence70
    beckylawrence70 Posts: 752 Member
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    I don't take any supplements or drinks, just cardio and strength training at home, and eating right most of the time.......
  • jenniejengin
    jenniejengin Posts: 785 Member
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    bump
  • steve1686
    steve1686 Posts: 346 Member
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    Protein powder is just as "natural" as milk. But you don't need it. Taking in the protein/calories from chicken, for example, will be no different than if you just had a protein shake. As for any other supplements, most of them are garbage ayway. Creatine is the only other I would recommend, but it's definitely not necessary.
    It also sounds to me like someone is trying to sell you some supplements. As for protein, you don't need 200g per day. 1 gram per pound of lean body mass (not total weight) is all you need
  • Superchikanthem
    Superchikanthem Posts: 362 Member
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    Bump
  • warmachinejt
    warmachinejt Posts: 2,167 Member
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    don't buy soy protein unless you have to. It is crap for you. Whey protein.
  • kungfuflyer
    kungfuflyer Posts: 29 Member
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    You can absolutely do it without supplements. Supplements are exactly that. They are to only supplement what you can't get through diet and exercise. Just make sure you are hitting your macro nutrient requirements through your food and you will be good.
  • mrfitness_28
    mrfitness_28 Posts: 18
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    If you want to add size perform compound lifts with low rep ranges from 8 - 10, keep the diet of quality muscle food and carbs to a moderate amount, protein just enough to feed your lean body mass. As for the supplements if you really need the whey id suggest it post workout because food cant break down quick enough to enter your muscle whilst the anabolic window is open for feeding 30 - 45 mins later you can start throwing in some small meal and a main within the hr.

    Also don't overtraining 3 - 4 days is enough for results, rest is key, follow my page I've got a-z covered if you need assistance with diary planning ;)

    Any q feel free to ask ;)
  • jmscotti
    jmscotti Posts: 2 Member
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    Sounds like lots of good advice people!. so all in all. get protein powder, and everything else i can get from food.

    ok so difference between whey, soy, casein, blah blah blah?

    whey concentrate is the most popular protein , its fast digesting and less pure (contains more fat and lactose then isolate)
    whey isolate is a more refined version of whey, isolate contains more protein with less fat and lactose per serving

    casein is slow digesting, i usually take it before bed (it's really thick, unless you like it thick you have to add 12oz of water or more to 1 scoop)

    haven't tried soy so I don't know much about that
  • taxidermist15
    taxidermist15 Posts: 677 Member
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    Thanks for all your help and advice guys, its been a great learning experience.

    One last question? (maybe if im lucky, ive had lots so far)

    I prefer working out in the mornings (i end up working a lot of late hours and overtime, bleh)
    but i know i dont do well on a full stomach.
    How important is it to eat before lifting? I know post workout nutrition is good. but pre-workout? Ive usually been having half a cup of cottage cheese or leftover meat or something, with a whey scoop in my oatmeal after my workout. I dont know if this is good enough?
  • docktorfokse
    docktorfokse Posts: 473 Member
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    What's unnatural about whey powder? It's basically just dry skim milk.

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