Can't build muscle in a deficit?

secretlobster · May 2012

but I think some people believe that the caloric surplus needs to be huge, which is why the muscle gains can't really be seen when the extra calories that aren't needed to repair the muscle go into fat storage.

This is very true

SpazzyMal · May 2012

You CAN lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. It's erroneous to say that you can "replace fat with muscle" because that's not really how it works, one does not become the other. When you lose fat, it is transferred into energy. Gaining muscle mass means converting extra calories into mass on your body.

I should say that being able to gain muscle while losing fat is an ideal scenario, and kind of a difficult balance to achieve unless you're significantly overweight.

When you are eating over your BMR, consuming an abundance of protein which facilitates muscle growth as muscles tear and rebuild, you gain muscle mass. At the same time, you are losing fat off your body because your body is taking that fat (which is really just stored energy) and converting it back into energy during your workout. You aren't ACTUALLY in a calorie deficit. You're eating enough to build muscle but your body is letting go of fat because that extra energy is being USED rather than squandered.

Yes, this fat-to-energy-to body fuel/possible muscle building energy is what I was curious about. Not that necessarily your fat would suddenly turn into muscle.

I don't really know much scientifically about this topic, but from personal experience when I started working out on a caloric deficit I gained muscle, without a doubt. However, this could have been due to 'beginner gains' or whichever.

BUT my opinion is..
Muscle is built when tiny micro tears are created in your muscle after working out, then those tears are repaired with more muscle and that is how muscle gains are made. So wouldn't your body constantly suffer DOMS if you're in a caloric deficit and lifting? I believe that to an extent (period of time in a caloric deficit) your body repairs and builds these muscles with the calories you are taking in, despite the deficit. However, I found that after period of doing this, your body is going to need a small excess of calories to continue to gain muscle and lose fat in the process. It only takes 100 extra calories a day to build muscle, but I think some people believe that the caloric surplus needs to be huge, which is why the muscle gains can't really be seen when the extra calories that aren't needed to repair the muscle go into fat storage.

This, too, brings on more questions... Obviously this is a bit of a hot topic on these boards, and maybe there isn't an answer that everyone agrees on yet.

All the same, this is very interesting to think about so far.

albinogorilla · May 2012

If you are truly eating at a deficit, for a period of time, you would be losing weight. You cannot add muscle tissue while you are eating at a deficit, if you actually are. There are lots of things that may go wrong in calculating your calories in and your calories expended in which you may actually not be eating at a deficit after all.

You may get stronger, and since you have lost fat your muscles may be more defined, thus making you think that you added muscle.

I do believe though, that in the course of a week, you can both add muscle and lose fat. That would be by eating at a surplus on some days, and a deficit on others though..........that is some tricky business though. If you can "safely" lose 2lbs of fat per week, who's to say you can't lose 1lb of fat, and add 1lb of muscle in the same week? That would involve cycling your calories though, not a constant deficit.

Mercenary1914 · May 2012

I keep seeing this being written and I understand how that makes sense - muscles take calories to build, of course. But I wonder, out of honest curiosity and a lack of serious knowledge on the subject, if the fact one is in a deficit really means they can't build muscle? Assuming someone isn't absolutely starving themselves and has weight to lose, their bodies should be pulling fat for energy, right? Wouldn't the body just pull a little extra to try to keep up with the demands you're putting on it, and thus build some muscle? I ask because I'm in a deficit but I definitely notice I'm getting stronger while I work out, and I just wanted to hear a little more about this, to help me understand better. I see that term said a lot on here but nobody ever goes into detail about it. I want the deets!

Hi,

I personally have been able to build muscle in deficit. It was by eating defict in overall CAL, but I was taking in 250 to 275g of protein...by doing this...I turned 22% body fat into 6% bodyfat...Basically your logic was working for me...The only carbs I really ate was a bowl of oatmeal in the morning Salad for Lunch, and broccoli for dinner...but I took in alot of protein and my caloric intake was around 1500 to 1900 cals...and I was burning at least 800 a day..going twice a day. My energy came from my body's stored fat.

Edit to add: My net Calorie intake for weight loss is 1900...so in theory if you subtract 800 from 1900 or 1500 you set a net lost of 700 or 1100...which is rapid weight lost

good post!

bzmom · May 2012

**Bump**

Very Interesting!

gazerofthestars · May 2012

I've researched it a lot lately. I can tell you that the true experts in the field have a lot of differing opinions on the matter. However, those 4 reasons discussed before (newbie lifters or high body fat %, returning lifters, genetics, and drugs) seem to be the areas where both sides can agree it does happen. Beyond that, there is a ton of debate. So, if you fall into those categories, you probably can. Beyond that, you'll just have to figure it out for yourself.

^^ Summed up basically what I've read on hundreds of posts since joining MFP.

ninerbuff · May 2012

I saw a study that basically demonstrated that yes, you can build muscle in a calorie deficit. In fact, it reccomended strength training to [preserve muscle while losing weight. I can't remember the numbers exactly, but I think you could build a third as much muscle in deficit as in surplus.

Really? I'd love to see that study.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

SpazzyMal · May 2012

Mercenary1914, congratulations on your weight loss!

A new question, related to the first — assuming you're not trying to build large muscles or anything of that sort, what is the science of getting stronger on a deficit? Like, you start out and you can only do a few pushups, but in a few weeks you can do 10?

Is your body just becoming better at firing the impulses that make your muscles respond? Or is it a combo of that and slight (emphasis on slight here, not talking about someone who might be bulking up huge) muscle gains caused from your body repairing the tears it gets from exercise? (Or neither, like I said, I'm here to learn and be curious.)

myak623 · May 2012

I am proof that you can increase Lean Body Mass while eating in a deficit. I went from 201.5 to 196.5 (5 pound reduction in body weight). During that time frame, my percent body fat decreased from 37.6% to 34.7%. This represents an increase of 2.7 pounds for my lean body mass!

I am eating a moderate deficit almost every day.

If you were new to lifting, then yes this is possible. Also, bone mineral density increases from strength training. There are more factors involved than just saying I weighed this, now I weigh this, so it must have been muscle gain.

Rae6503 · May 2012

Is your body just becoming better at firing the impulses that make your muscles respond? Or is it a combo of that and slight (emphasis on slight here, not talking about someone who might be bulking up huge) muscle gains caused from your body repairing the tears it gets from exercise? (Or neither, like I said, I'm here to learn and be curious.)

Yup.

Mercenary1914 · May 2012

I saw a study that basically demonstrated that yes, you can build muscle in a calorie deficit. In fact, it reccomended strength training to [preserve muscle while losing weight. I can't remember the numbers exactly, but I think you could build a third as much muscle in deficit as in surplus.

Really? I'd love to see that study.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I did.... I lost 40 lbs, my bench went from 3 reps of 95 lbs...to 15 reps of 240 ...from 22% body fat, to 6% body fat....
My calorie intake averaged 1500 to 1900 cals...I worked out twice a day...ran 5 miles every morning and lifted at night as well as doing 20 to 40 mins of cardio...I burned roughly 800 cals day easily. and I looked up my net weight lost for height and age and it was 1900 cals.

Mercenary1914 · May 2012

Mercenary1914, congratulations on your weight loss!

A new question, related to the first — assuming you're not trying to build large muscles or anything of that sort, what is the science of getting stronger on a deficit? Like, you start out and you can only do a few pushups, but in a few weeks you can do 10?

Is your body just becoming better at firing the impulses that make your muscles respond? Or is it a combo of that and slight (emphasis on slight here, not talking about someone who might be bulking up huge) muscle gains caused from your body repairing the tears it gets from exercise? (Or neither, like I said, I'm here to learn and be curious.)

yea...I went from benching 95 lbs to 240...my body became better at firing the impulses that made my muscles respond....as for bulking...it came from all that protein I took in....I am sure I would have plateued at lower weight if I didnt bulk .

Jadzea42 · May 2012

Just watching a few seasons of the biggest loser tv show I would say its totally possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

songbyrdsweet · May 2012

Building strength is not synonymous with building muscle. One requires neurological change, while another requires physiological and anatomical change. You can certainly gain strength while on a caloric deficit, but synthesizing muscle protein when you're in a protein deficit is obviously not going to happen.

Glucocorticoid · May 2012

Building strength is not synonymous with building muscle. One requires neurological change, while another requires physiological and anatomical change. You can certainly gain strength while on a caloric deficit, but synthesizing muscle protein when you're in a protein deficit is obviously not going to happen.

+1 for the above. Strength gains and muscle gains are two different things.

lau444 · May 2012

lau444 · May 2012

Well, I'm no scientist, but over the past 3.5 months, I've lost 34lbs of fat and gained 8lbs of muscle, so I'd say yes it is possible to gain muscle on a deficit. Obviously I'll never lose fat and gain muscle at the same rate, but I've definitely built muscle. I do pay close attention to my protein and water intake, and i take magnesium supplements daily, so I am being proactive.

How do you know?

I get my BF% and H2o% measured by my dostor every 2 months. Plus, I think it's important to add that O eat about 2,000 cal a day, with great attention to my protein (most days :-)). I doubt I could build muscle if I were eating 1200-1300 a day.

Can't build muscle in a deficit?

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