veggies and fruits...what do you think?!

It really depends on what you're monitoring. For me, I do monitor carbs, and sugars, so fruit and veg can have surprisingly high amounts of those.

i count mine hehe

Even if you think you can't have too many fruits and vegetables, you can surely have too few. And only be keeping an accurate log can you find out if you eat too much or too little of certain items.

Fruit is also quite high in sugar/carbs, if your trying to loose weight and eat 3 pineapples a day that you don't count... well you're probably not getting any slimmer. Some vegetables have very little impact, but in the end, even the small things count. For me it makes sense to add basically everything I eat.

Count them both. Fruits surprisingly have quite a bit of calories. A medium gala apple has about 90 calories and some carbs.

I track everything I eat, just because it's a good habit to have.

If you decide to track only certain things it could become a slippery slope- if not veggies and fruits, why should we track the oil they were cooked in?

When you track veggies and fruits, you'll notice that they do have calories (though its fairly low for veggies, higher for fruits), protein, carbs, fiber, etc. All of these are important to track.

Consider this: If I eat one cup of carrot slices, one cup of grape tomatoes, and 15 snap peas the calories add up to ~101. Iron is 23, Protein 9, Carbs 29, etc. These are all significant numbers for the meal/snack. If I didn't record these, but ate them every day, by the end of the week I will have not recorded over ~707 calories, 161 iron, 63 protein, 203 carbs. That's a huge impact on my intake.

I record all fruits and veggies. I don't care much about the sugars/carbs that are in them, but they are still calories and they add up in the end.

I remember watching a show once (X Weighted) and the woman on the show couldn't figure out why she wasn't losing weight. She started her day by eating a bag of apples on her drive to work. 1 hour, 5 apples, but because they were fruit she felt they shouldn't be adding to weight gain.

It all adds up.

Fruits are all sugar. Consider it carefully.

Some veggies have a lott of sugar. Potatoes and carroys are deadly.

Consider it carefully.

Carbohydrate is carbohydrate. If you are eating fruit you are eating carbohydrate.

The ida that there are "good and bad" carbs is very controversial. Atoms are all the same. Carboydrate molecules are all the same.

If you want to read a huge pile of hard science on this very issue, buy Gary Taubes book, "Why we get fat." It is priceless. Don't go on rumours - get science.

If you want to read a huge pile of hard science on this very issue, buy Gary Taubes book, "Why we get fat." It is priceless. Don't go on rumours - get science.

If you want to read cherry-picked science that ignores any study that disagrees with it then read Gary Taubes. Otherwise track down the real science and ignore journalists selling books.

Well don't track them, and if you are still moving towards your goal, it's fine
If you don't, you could track them.

In 99% of the cases, solid food that goes through your mouth brings calories - fruits/ veggies included.

I track everything but spices.
I just like to know what I ate during the day, otherwise I tend to forget and go over my daily calorie goal. It make's things easier when you have a list right there with everything on it!!

I think you will find that most people track them. Weight Watchers doesn't, but that's a different program.

If you are counting calories, it is in your best interest to count ALL the calories.

I count my fruits and veggies. They have calories too. And it's good to look back to see how well you're doing with your fruits & veggies.

Once again, one of my main fields of interest is finding arguments AGAINST Taubes, Kendrick, etc.

Anything specific?

I'll do that when I have some time. I'm not going to buy his book though, so I'll have to see what I can dig up online.

I remember watching Tabues on one of those afternoon Dr shows with Jilllian Michaels where they were talking about exercise. Taubes, as I remember, doesn't think exercise is any benefit to losing weight. But when it came to the actual discussion all he had to fall back on was "Haven't you ever heard of working up an appetite?" as if that were some sort of solid scientific basis for his beliefs. He also said something about insulin and exercise, to which Michaels responded "There are all sorts of hormones released when you exercise, not just insulin." I don't think he even responded to her after that.

That was the first time I remember ever hearing anything about him, and it just set off all kinds of alarm bells.

A calorie is a calorie, no matter how big or small. I count my fruits and veggies because fruits can be high in calories and although veggies are low in calories, it can sometimes be the line that takes me over my calories on bad days. (Not that I will eat less veggies, but it will fill me up more and help keep me from reaching for the bad stuff.)