Poly and Moly unsaturated fats
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Where in your link do they support what you said?Maybe if you made it clear what exactly you are trying to argue about, I could argue back more efficiently. Are you trying to debate that there is any need at all for conditionally essential fatty acids or that saturated fat is not needed at all? I don't quite understand.
The word 'roughly' doesn't mean get out the calculator and start counting grams of every fatty acid you eat. It's just 'easier' if you get somewhere around a third of your fats from saturated fat and the majority of your fat from polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat and not have to worry about it.
It looks like you got so butthurt by this part: "Your dietary fat should be roughly equal amounts of each; saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated," that you didn't read this part: "however if you don't get any saturated fat in your diet, your body will synthesize what it needs from something else when it needs to.". That means, no, my 'recommendation', as you put it, is not the word of god.
As for the monounsaturated fats:
I was just making a blanket statement that 'essential fats' are called such because they can't be synthesized. I didn't say that monounsaturated fat specifically, because I was actually referring to the polyunsaturated fats, however certain saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids are considered 'conditionally essential' fatty acids.0 -
It looks like you got so butthurt by this partThat means, no, my 'recommendation', as you put it, is not the word of god.
This sure does sound like a recommendation to me:
" Your dietary fat should be roughly equal amounts of each; saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated"that you didn't read this partIt's just 'easier' if you get somewhere around a third of your fats from saturated fat and the majority of your fat from polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat and not have to worry about itI didn't say that monounsaturated fat specifically, because I was actually referring to the polyunsaturated fats
Person says: "poly unsaturated and mono unsaturated fats are supposed to be better for you than saturated fat"
You say: " I wouldn't necessarily say they are "better" fat. They're called essential fats, because your body can't synthesize them, but your body requires saturated fats just as much as unsaturated fats".
If you were only referring to poly fats then you should have specified as such. You did not, so I clarified it for you. That's all that happened, relax.however certain saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids are considered 'conditionally essential' fatty acids.0 -
Overly defensive much? All I did was ask you for your source. I'd hate to see how you react when someone does actually argue with you (which I'll do now).Are you saying it was not a recommendation?
This sure does sound like a recommendation to me:
" Your dietary fat should be roughly equal amounts of each; saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated"It's just 'easier' if you get somewhere around a third of your fats from saturated fat and the majority of your fat from polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat and not have to worry about it0 -
If I bake a pie and slice it into pieces, each piece representing a different classification of fatty acid, then, compared to the one piece of pie representing saturated fat, the rest would be considered the majority.Your dietary fat should be roughly equal amounts of each; saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated
The bottom line is, based on your original recommendation, if I ingest about 75g of fat per day, I should ingest roughly 25g of fat from polyunsaturated fats. Which many would take to mean that they should consume roughly 25g of fish oil/day to reach meet that target (since it's the most cost-effective way to meet omega-3 intakes of such a high level). Which is overkill in most cases. Evidence shows that it can very well be detrimental (i.e. such a high dosage of w-3s can harm immune function). More doesn't always equal better.0 -
If I bake a pie and slice it into pieces, each piece representing a different classification of fatty acid, then, compared to the one piece of pie representing saturated fat, the rest would be considered the majority.Your dietary fat should be roughly equal amounts of each; saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated
The bottom line is, based on your original recommendation, if I ingest about 75g of fat per day, I should ingest roughly 25g of fat from polyunsaturated fats. Which many would take to mean that they should consume roughly 25g of fish oil/day to reach meet that target (since it's the most cost-effective way to meet omega-3 intakes of such a high level). Which is overkill in most cases. Evidence shows that it can very well be detrimental (i.e. such a high dosage of w-3s can harm immune function). More doesn't always equal better.0 -
If I bake a pie and slice it into pieces, each piece representing a different classification of fatty acid, then, compared to the one piece of pie representing saturated fat, the rest would be considered the majority.Your dietary fat should be roughly equal amounts of each; saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated
The bottom line is, based on your original recommendation, if I ingest about 75g of fat per day, I should ingest roughly 25g of fat from polyunsaturated fats. Which many would take to mean that they should consume roughly 25g of fish oil/day to reach meet that target (since it's the most cost-effective way to meet omega-3 intakes of such a high level). Which is overkill in most cases. Evidence shows that it can very well be detrimental (i.e. such a high dosage of w-3s can harm immune function). More doesn't always equal better.
The problem with making things up is that it can be potentially harmful to others (as I alluded to in my previous post). Please try to refrain from doing so in the future.Keep in mind, the OP was asking for a simple solution that he can easily put into practice.0 -
If I bake a pie and slice it into pieces, each piece representing a different classification of fatty acid, then, compared to the one piece of pie representing saturated fat, the rest would be considered the majority.Your dietary fat should be roughly equal amounts of each; saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated
The bottom line is, based on your original recommendation, if I ingest about 75g of fat per day, I should ingest roughly 25g of fat from polyunsaturated fats. Which many would take to mean that they should consume roughly 25g of fish oil/day to reach meet that target (since it's the most cost-effective way to meet omega-3 intakes of such a high level). Which is overkill in most cases. Evidence shows that it can very well be detrimental (i.e. such a high dosage of w-3s can harm immune function). More doesn't always equal better.
The problem with making things up is that it can be potentially harmful to others (as I alluded to in my previous post). Please try to refrain from doing so in the future.Keep in mind, the OP was asking for a simple solution that he can easily put into practice.0 -
A counterpoint to what specifically?0
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A counterpoint to what specifically?0
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A counterpoint to what specifically?
Your recommendations (both original and revised) can imply an extremely high PUFA recommendation (for omega-3s specifically), which can be detrimental.
In terms of omega-3 dosage I would recommend around 10g of fish oil daily (assuming the individual is aspiring to improve their physique).
A typical fish oil capsule (1g) contains 300mg EPA and DHA (which is actually what is essential). There is a minimum and optimum level of EPA/DHA intake according to the AHA. The minimum level to reduce cardiac & all-cause mortality would be .5-1.8g per day of EPA & DHA (combined). In terms of fat loss, a slightly higher dose would be optimal (2-4g of EPA & DHA). This has been shown to effectively lower high triglyceride levels. Therefore, from a fat loss perspective, this translates into a range of 6-12g of fish oil, and would certainly be reasonable as a generic recommendation.
The reason I questioned your statement (which you apparently just made up) is because I've seen no scientific evidence to support going much higher than that. To the contrary, such a high omega-3 intake will due more harm than good (i.e. suppressing immune function).
Moreover, the AHA warns against taking more than 3g of EPA/DHA a day without medical supervision, due to increased risk for excessive bleeding in certain individuals. Particularly relevant for those on blood-thinning medication.
If you're asking what I would recommend in terms of overall fat intake, that would depend on the context (the individual and their goal).0 -
A counterpoint to what specifically?
Your recommendations (both original and revised) can imply an extremely high PUFA recommendation (for omega-3s specifically), which can be detrimental.
In terms of omega-3 dosage I would recommend around 10g of fish oil daily (assuming the individual is aspiring to improve their physique).
A typical fish oil capsule (1g) contains 300mg EPA and DHA (which is actually what is essential). There is a minimum and optimum level of EPA/DHA intake according to the AHA. The minimum level to reduce cardiac & all-cause mortality would be .5-1.8g per day of EPA & DHA (combined). In terms of fat loss, a slightly higher dose would be optimal (2-4g of EPA & DHA). This has been shown to effectively lower high triglyceride levels. Therefore, from a fat loss perspective, this translates into a range of 6-12g of fish oil,
and would certainly be reasonable as a generic recommendation.
The reason I questioned your statement (which you apparently just made up) is because I've seen no scientific evidence to support going much higher than that. To the contrary, such a high omega-3 intake will due more harm than good (i.e. suppressing immune function).
Moreover, the AHA warns against taking more than 3g of EPA/DHA a day without medical supervision, due to increased risk for excessive bleeding in certain individuals. Particularly relevant for those on blood-thinning medication.
If you're asking what I would recommend in terms of overall fat intake, that would depend on the context (the individual and their goal).
And yes, I am asking you in terms of overall fat intake.0 -
So if I have 60 grams of fat total, then saturated fat being roughly 20 grams, polyunsaturated fat 20 grams and monounsaturated fat 20 grams. The individual goal being to lose weight.I don't remember even mentioning fish oil (I usually do have a tunafish sandwich for lunch though), I s,aid roughly equal amounts of each: saturated, polyunsaturated and monounsaturated.
I realize that. But it's implied in your recommendation. And it sounds like you need to read up more on this subject before giving specific recommendations, because you should know that polyunsaturated fat pretty much equates to fish oil (vaguely speaking, obviously there's other sources). I'll explain it a bit below.
PUFA = omega3/omega6. Another term for omega3 is alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) and omega6 is linoleic acid (LA). We don't need to worry about omega6 intake (it is found in abundance in the modern diet, and targeting to specifically increase that will do more harm than good). Therefore, all the hype is targeted to increase omega3/ALA intake. But note that the benefits that ALA provides are actually derived from EPA/DHA (ALA converts to these two compounds in the body).
So how do you increase omega-3 intake to the levels I mentioned in my previous post? Unless you eat fatty fish regularly, it will be difficult without supplementing. Hence the cost-effective recommendations for fish oil supplementation.And yes, I am asking you in terms of overall fat intake.0 -
So if I have 60 grams of fat total, then saturated fat being roughly 20 grams, polyunsaturated fat 20 grams and monounsaturated fat 20 grams. The individual goal being to lose weight.I don't remember even mentioning fish oil (I usually do have a tunafish sandwich for lunch though), I s,aid roughly equal amounts of each: saturated, polyunsaturated and monounsaturated.
I realize that. But it's implied in your recommendation. And it sounds like you need to read up more on this subject before giving specific recommendations, because you should know that polyunsaturated fat pretty much equates to fish oil (vaguely speaking, obviously there's other sources). I'll explain it a bit below.
PUFA = omega3/omega6. Another term for omega3 is alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) and omega6 is linoleic acid (LA). We don't need to worry about omega6 intake (it is found in abundance in the modern diet, and targeting to specifically increase that will do more harm than good). Therefore, all the hype is targeted to increase omega3/ALA intake. But note that the benefits that ALA provides are actually derived from EPA/DHA (ALA converts to these two compounds in the body).
So how do you increase omega-3 intake to the levels I mentioned in my previous post? Unless you eat fatty fish regularly, it will be difficult without supplementing. Hence the cost-effective recommendations for fish oil supplementation.And yes, I am asking you in terms of overall fat intake.
If you're really that concerned about omega 3, then it seems more cost effective to me to get a fishing pole. Supplements just make you poop a lot.0 -
That romance could continue for decades. Wait Glucocorticoi :
@jg627 : yes you provided an advice with no support, but it's no biggie :-)0 -
If I was implying anything for a polyunsaturated fat source, it would be walnuts, which is one of the things I always keep stocked in my cupboard. For 200 calories you get 14 grams of polyunsaturated fat. Oatmeal with natural peanut butter and some chopped walnuts and walnut crusted fish go into my belly quite often.
Two main problems with that:
The first being that not everyone wants to to include walnuts/peanut butter/almonds/etc. in their diet on a daily basis - particularly if you are dieting and your caloric allowance is already restricted. Hence another reason to supplement, you don't have to worry about the plethora of tag-along calories, and it will free you from absolutely requiring certain foods.
Secondly, and more importantly, even if you do manage to increase your ALA intake from plant sources like walnuts/flaxseed/canola/etc on a daily basis, it's not going to matter much. The problem is that with these plant sources, the conversation of ALA to EPA/DHA in the body is extremely inefficient - so it's mostly pointless.
The bottom line is that reaching the optimal or even minimum levels of EPA/DHA recommended is going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to do on a daily basis without supplementation of fish oil (or something similar). Unless you just really enjoy eating marine wildlife everyday.If you're really that concerned about omega 3, then it seems more cost effective to me to get a fishing pole.
I certainly think its a valid concern seeing as how it's essential, and given that there's nearly a decade of solid evidence behind supplementation/whole-fish that support its numerous benefits (i.e. fat loss, muscle strength, cardiovascular disease prevention, reduced cardiac deaths). There also seems to be indication of its utility in treating cancer and many other diseases. The vast benefits far outweigh the minor potential negatives.0 -
According to the daily nutrition goals on MFP I should have 0 grams per day of poly, moly, and trans fats. That's why I am a little concerned. What I read seemed to point to the poly and moly as neccesary.
from my experience, the food stats in mfp are really only good for cals, total fat, carbs, and protein. everything i feel as though when people enter it, they dont bother with. why? probably because the macros i listed are really the most important. as an example though, one serving of almonds has 14g of fat. i believe around 2g of saturated, and 11g of the unsaturated.0 -
After reading the whole debate between Glucocorticoi and jg627, I declare Gluc the winner. Points well made and well supported. Congrats. :happy:0
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If I was implying anything for a polyunsaturated fat source, it would be walnuts, which is one of the things I always keep stocked in my cupboard. For 200 calories you get 14 grams of polyunsaturated fat. Oatmeal with natural peanut butter and some chopped walnuts and walnut crusted fish go into my belly quite often.
Two main problems with that:
The first being that not everyone wants to to include walnuts/peanut butter/almonds/etc. in their diet on a daily basis - particularly if you are dieting and your caloric allowance is already restricted. Hence another reason to supplement, you don't have to worry about the plethora of tag-along calories, and it will free you from absolutely requiring certain foods.
Secondly, and more importantly, even if you do manage to increase your ALA intake from plant sources like walnuts/flaxseed/canola/etc on a daily basis, it's not going to matter much. The problem is that with these plant sources, the conversation of ALA to EPA/DHA in the body is extremely inefficient - so it's mostly pointless.
Themselves bottom line is that reaching the optimal or even minimum levels of EPA/DHA recommended is going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to do on a daily basis without supplementation of fish oil (or something similar). Unless you just really enjoy eating marine wildlife everyday.If you're really that concerned about omega 3, then it seems more cost effective to me to get a fishing pole.
I certainly think its a valid concern seeing as how it's essential, and given that there's nearly a decade of solid evidence behind supplementation/whole-fish that support its numerous benefits (i.e. fat loss, muscle strength, cardiovascular disease prevention, reduced cardiac deaths). There also seems to be indication of its utility in treating cancer and many other diseases. The vast benefits far outweigh the minor potential negatives.0 -
If I was implying anything for a polyunsaturated fat source, it would be walnuts, which is one of the things I always keep stocked in my cupboard. For 200 calories you get 14 grams of polyunsaturated fat. Oatmeal with natural peanut butter and some chopped walnuts and walnut crusted fish go into my belly quite often.
Two main problems with that:
The first being that not everyone wants to to include walnuts/peanut butter/almonds/etc. in their diet on a daily basis - particularly if you are dieting and your caloric allowance is already restricted. Hence another reason to supplement, you don't have to worry about the plethora of tag-along calories, and it will free you from absolutely requiring certain foods.
Secondly, and more importantly, even if you do manage to increase your ALA intake from plant sources like walnuts/flaxseed/canola/etc on a daily basis, it's not going to matter much. The problem is that with these plant sources, the conversation of ALA to EPA/DHA in the body is extremely inefficient - so it's mostly pointless.
Themselves bottom line is that reaching the optimal or even minimum levels of EPA/DHA recommended is going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to do on a daily basis without supplementation of fish oil (or something similar). Unless you just really enjoy eating marine wildlife everyday.If you're really that concerned about omega 3, then it seems more cost effective to me to get a fishing pole.
I certainly think its a valid concern seeing as how it's essential, and given that there's nearly a decade of solid evidence behind supplementation/whole-fish that support its numerous benefits (i.e. fat loss, muscle strength, cardiovascular disease prevention, reduced cardiac deaths). There also seems to be indication of its utility in treating cancer and many other diseases. The vast benefits far outweigh the minor potential negatives.I'm going continue to enjoy my grilled swordfish steaks and nutty tilapia and say thank you for the information, but fish oil gives me the runs.
[/quote]0 -
If I was implying anything for a polyunsaturated fat source, it would be walnuts, which is one of the things I always keep stocked in my cupboard. For 200 calories you get 14 grams of polyunsaturated fat. Oatmeal with natural peanut butter and some chopped walnuts and walnut crusted fish go into my belly quite often.
Two main problems with that:
The first being that not everyone wants to to include walnuts/peanut butter/almonds/etc. in their diet on a daily basis - particularly if you are dieting and your caloric allowance is already restricted. Hence another reason to supplement, you don't have to worry about the plethora of tag-along calories, and it will free you from absolutely requiring certain foods.
Secondly, and more importantly, even if you do manage to increase your ALA intake from plant sources like walnuts/flaxseed/canola/etc on a daily basis, it's not going to matter much. The problem is that with these plant sources, the conversation of ALA to EPA/DHA in the body is extremely inefficient - so it's mostly pointless.
Themselves bottom line is that reaching the optimal or even minimum levels of EPA/DHA recommended is going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to do on a daily basis without supplementation of fish oil (or something similar). Unless you just really enjoy eating marine wildlife everyday.If you're really that concerned about omega 3, then it seems more cost effective to me to get a fishing pole.
I certainly think its a valid concern seeing as how it's essential, and given that there's nearly a decade of solid evidence behind supplementation/whole-fish that support its numerous benefits (i.e. fat loss, muscle strength, cardiovascular disease prevention, reduced cardiac deaths). There also seems to be indication of its utility in treating cancer and many other diseases. The vast benefits far outweigh the minor potential negatives.I'm going continue to enjoy my grilled swordfish steaks and nutty tilapia and say thank you for the information, but fish oil gives me the runs.
The point is, there's just no reason to keep baiting me to argue about fish oil. I'm not arguing or debating about fish oil. I don't disagree with your argument about fish oil, so why would I want to argue about it?0
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