Who's the crazy one?
Replies
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I dont' think he gave poor advice, it just sounds like he did it in a sort of rude manner. It kind of depends though, on how the conversation went. i don't know you at all, so I'll assume you were respectful and said those things in a way as to solicit advice and not in a way that sounded like you already know the answers. It's easy to come off that way when you start talking about BMR and TDEE and all that. I can understand his comment about that stuff. It's all really just wild guesses and computed formulas. It's not really science. Doctors are basically scientists and they want facts, not made up silly formulas. So, I do understand his reaction. On the other hand, he could have used that moment as a way to educate you in a nice way without being rude.
When it comes to doctors, i do not provide answers, only questions. In other words, I have learned that you have to be very, very careful what you tell them because they will typically grab onto some small little detail that you say, that really has nothing to do with your problem, and say that's the problem. They do it all the time, and I see it happen a lot with my friends. You can't discuss your life. You just have to be very direct, "I don't seem to be losing weight. I am eating and exercising and I just am not losing weight" END. Let him then start asking appropriate questions, and DO NOT add color to anything. Answer yes or no, and directly answer the question. Don't add, "and I can't sleep". Don't add, "My BMR is X", don't add, "I calculated my TDEE". Just answer directly. If he asks, "How many calories are you eating". Just say the number, don't add a bunch of reasons why you eat that. If he asks if you are tracking what you eat, just say yes. Simple. If you start talking about MFP and TDEE and BMR, he's going to think you just googled some stuff and know enough to be harmful to yourself and wont take you seriously. Doctors are not people to confide in with that kind of stuff. I know some people here will disagree, but that's my experience with them. Just discuss your direct and absolute reason for being there. One item at a time. It's a very slow process. But, it works better with doctors. Try it next time. Withhold info and just provide what is absolutely important for the specific thing you are there for. I bet you'll get a very different doctor with a very different diagnosis and advice.0 -
Sounds like he was trying to get you to not see how little he knew and even more so, how little he wanted to explain things to you. Sounds like a *kitten*!
I think going off of the Depo Provera was a good move. I was last told by one of my previous OB/GYN's that that stuff is pretty bad for you...
I suggest 1) giving that doctor a mental "kick in the balls" for being such a jerk to you and 2) going to talk to someone who specializes in nutrition and weight loss for individuals who have a history of being overweight and thyroid issues.
I understand the need to understand how this whole process works and the desire to go about it the most effective way possible. After all, what good is it to eat 1500 calories and "just move" if you're not seeing results?
A little off topic, but for those of you who think someone with a PhD is a freaking genius, please reconsider. No offense to anyone who has a PhD, you clearly worked your *kitten* off and pay exorbitant amounts of money to get it. But that doesn't mean you know everything.
^^^ you rock! :drinker: Doctor's don't know it all, they just want you to think they do. I swear they come in, ask you tons of questions, leave the room and google possible solutions (I'm joking, but sometimes this doesn't seem that far fetched!) :laugh:0 -
I don't think MFP will set your calories below your BMR unless you force it too. I know it adjusted my weight loss per week to keep me at my BMR until I forced it to recalculate. Am I wrong about that?
Yes, it will go down to a floor of 1200. For most of us, that's below BMR.
OP- I don't mean any of this meanly. Feeling a little tired and headachey, etc. is considered a normal side effect of eating at a new, lower level. It goes away. It can take a few weeks. Unfortunately it helps a lot to have the patience to get past it if you believe your new lower calorie level is the healthy route for your long term goals and health. That's sort of impossible to do if you believe everything you read here and not your doctor, though. Which is why I rant and rail.
Thanks.for the honesty I am trying to stick with it for at least a month.0 -
Hey All, I seem to be at an impasse with my doctor, so I would like to ask the MFP Community. I understand that my doctor is probably right but I would just like to hear what other people have to say.
Before I continue on, my doctor is not specialized in nutrition or weight loss, he is a family practice general practitioner.
I used to see him rarely, just for my perscriptions and injections, so this was relaly the first time we had a lengthy conversation.
I went to him concerned about my weight loss, my scale has been stalled for several months (after a 10lb gain).
I basicly told him I was experiencing an inconsistency with my sleep (sometimes I sleep too much and sometimes I sleep too litle) and that I never feel rested when I wake up, that I have low energy and depression, in addition to the stalled weight loss.
I wanted off the depo provera shot but he argued with me claiming the symptoms were not hormonal.
I then went on to explain That I walk over 5000 steps a day (sometimes closer to 10k), that I cut out ALL soda from my diet,
that we stopped eating out every night, that I joined a gym and go three times a week. That i weigh all my food and drinks on a scale, and that I log all my food in a journal. And I was concerned that I wasn't losing weight after doing doing all these things for over a month. I also took a hand figured copy of my BMR, and exported excel sheets of data from my bodymedia armband (it's like a fitbit). He told me I wasn't losing weight because I was gullible and misinformed.
He said that the formulas for calculating BMR are outdated an inaccurate. He claimed that are a major marketing tool and that people are so diverse that BMR estimates are just wild guesses( mine was something like 2800). He then told me that since I was eating 22-2400 calories a day and not losing weight my BMR (At 5'10'' 350 lbs) was 1800 calories, and to just start eating 1500 a day. Also apparently it doesn't mater if fast food / soda is part of that number or not. "food is food".
He also told me that tracking calories burned for steps/exercise is a waste of time and not even to time myself, to just "get up and move and don't worry about how many cals you burn or what the muscle group is, just move"
But when I told him I elliptical 3 times a week and then jog/run once or twice he got upset and told me not to do activities like that because I'll injure myself, and that weight lifteing at my weight is dangerous because of bad form, so I'm not sure what he expects me to do. When I asked he said "just move!".
I mean he eventually drifted in to trying to explain calorie burn. He picked a box up off his desk and said "it doesn't take a lot of energy to move this box, but if it was heavy it would take more effort. You are going to burn more calories taking the stairs the an average person because you are heavier" but when I asked if since I was burning more calories then an average person why he wanted me to eat 1500 calories only he just kept talking about this stupid box.
at the end of our apt he raised my thyroid meds, and told me to come back in a month.
Am I crazy for trrying to eat 1500 a day at my size/activity level? because I feel crazy, headache and stomach cramps, and really cold, or is he crazy just because he's crazy?
Additional details,
5'10''
350 lbs
female
23 years old
lightly active
underactive thyroid (40mcg synthroid)
previously depo provera, but now ortho evra. didn't gain weight from the shot (already had most of it when I started) but still think problem may be hormonal. DO NOT WANT AN IUD.
Have you been screened for sleep apnea. All the symptoms you have described point in that direction.0 -
If you are feeling good doing your exercises, do them. You ARE moving.
I agree with the pps that said you may want to take his advice about lowering your cals. I wouldn't go too drastic at first. If it was me, I'd jump to 1800-2000 calories for a month and see if that makes a difference. As for him saying "food is food"...wth? Yes, calories are calories, but I'd assume the goal is HEALTH and therefore 2000 calories of artery-clogging Big Macs is NOT the same as 2000 calories of lean meat and leafy greens. That makes your doc sound pretty silly.
As for the other issues about your depo shot, etc..I'd seek a second opinion. Just because your doc is a professional doesn't necessarily mean that they have all of the latest info, or that they will agree with/promote it. Find a new MD, one educated in obesity/nutrition.0 -
I'm not going to pretend to be a doctor but your doctor sounds like a jerk.
I agree. From what you have told us, I would go seek a second opinion. He doesn't sound helpful at all!
What would you prefer he tell her, doctor?0 -
1) Your Doctor is a bigger jerk than mine.... and mine was letting me DX myself
2) I put your info in the same calculator I used for my BMR/TDEE = BMR was 2394, TDEE was 3292, 20% below TDEE is 2633. So yes, I do think your BMR is alittle high.
3) My hubby was DX'ed w/ Graves several years ago (hyperthyroidism) and when he went on the meds (not sure the name but it's called PTU) he gained 30-40 pound in several months. I made him moody, b%tchy, mean and emotionally unstable. Finally the doctor got everything under control, but he still isn't 100%.
You may be correct in thinking it is hormonal - anything messing with your thyroid screws up alot of different systems in your body. I'd say find a new doctor, maybe a encodricologist (thyroid specialist, i think they are called) over a GP for your thyroid issue. He/she might be able to better help you isolate what is going on. Good Luck and take care.0 -
My armband says around 3k a day so that's why I was believing mfp when it told me 2990 which I rounded down to 2800.if you wear a fit bit you should know exactly how many calories you burn during the day. no need to use an equation. just make sure you are eating 500-1000 less then that and you should loose 1-2 lbs a week. that is what I do and it works like clockwork.
But because of peoples responses Im going to stop relying on it.0 -
I am pretty solidly against hormonal birth control. I know that for me I have some pretty uncomfortable side effects including increased appetite and bloating with water weight gain. I also am a monster when I take it.
You know there is a non-hormonal IUD -- the paraguard. I had that for a while and didn't hate it. Didn't love it, but I didn't hate it like I hated hormonal BC.
I now use NFP. I recommend the book taking charge of your fertility. It helped me on so many levels. Understanding my hormones and my cycles has helped with all aspects of my well-being.
As to the doctor, I would find a doctor that you feel you can relate to and one that respects you as a person. Even if this doctor is great on paper, if you don't have a good relationship with him he probably won't help you as much as a doctor that you relate better to.0 -
Right, and we wonder why doctors don't tell people the frank truth any longer. We're such a nation of namby-pamby's.If you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
And if you need another opinion, seek out another Dr - don't troll MFP for somebody to agree with you.
Sounds like you just want to eat more.
Join the club.
Either take your doctor's advice, or fire him and seek medical services elsewhere.
Good Luck:flowerforyou:
^^^^THAT! Doctors are jerks for this very reason. We would rather listen to people who tell us what we want to hear.
Boo Hoo, your bedside manor was harsh....
Here is what my doctor said...
"Bobby, you're FAT! F.A.T -- FAT stands for FATAL, AWFUL, TERRIBLE! And you are FAT! If you can lose 50 lbs, you won't need any of these medications or that CPap".
Gulp
Instead of firing my doctor, I heeded his advice, and I take no medication and ditched the CPap.0 -
My armband says around 3k a day so that's why I was believing mfp when it told me 2990 which I rounded down to 2800.if you wear a fit bit you should know exactly how many calories you burn during the day. no need to use an equation. just make sure you are eating 500-1000 less then that and you should loose 1-2 lbs a week. that is what I do and it works like clockwork.
But because of peoples responses Im going to stop relying on it.
assuming those numbers are right (and they seem a little off to me), that would only be a 200 cal deficit a day, leading to less than a half pound weight loss a week. so, even if you TDEE really is around 3000, you should still be okay cutting back a further 200-250 cals a day leading to a 1lb/wk weight loss0 -
Get a new doctor. He sounds like an old quack! I got off depo and I feel so much better for it. It may not have caused weight gain but it definately changed my moods and completely stopped TOM as well as numerous migraines every month. Since getting off depo I haven't had a migraine an TOM is regular. My moods have also evened out.0
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Yay another bodymedia user lolI have the Body Media and generally burn an average of 3000 calories per day including exercise. I eat around 2000 calories per day and am losing 1.5- 2 pounds consistantly every week. What does the Body Media give you for an average daily burn? Being that you still have a lot of weight to lose, you can safely cut 1000 calories from that amount daily and lose weight. I do agree that it seems that you are not comfortable with your doctor so it might be a good idea to search for a new one. Good luck to you.
Mine gives me around 3000 calorie burn so when mfp agreed I was pretty convinced.
This is why I went to my doctor. I was honestly confused.
And unlike some people saying I.just want to be told what I want to hear nothing could be farther from the truth
I am on a mission for facts and advice from all perspectives0 -
Regardless of whether the doctor in question is right or wrong (something I'm not going to debate since I'm not even going to pretend to be a doctor myself), if you're feeling like you need a second opinion it may be time for a new doctor anyway. There's little point to seeing a doctor you don't trust and don't like.
But when you do find one you like and trust, you need to follow their advice! Nothing irritates a doctor or other medical provider more than a patient that keeps coming back for the same problem but hasn't followed any of the given instructions. (I work in a general practitioner's office. I hear about it ALL the time. Haha.)
Best of luck to you, though! I hope things get straightened out!
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If you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
And if you need another opinion, seek out another Dr - don't troll MFP for somebody to agree with you.
Sounds like you just want to eat more.
Join the club.
Either take your doctor's advice, or fire him and seek medical services elsewhere.
Good Luck:flowerforyou:
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I'm only going to comment on one thing in your post:I wanted off the depo provera shot but he argued with me claiming the symptoms were not hormonal.
Get a new doctor. That shot is the devil and having trouble with weight is one of the most common side effects of that shot. I could go into more details about the rest of the side effects (including early menopause) but since weight is your main concern right now, that's enough of a reason to get off of it. And don't get Mirena because it has the same hormone and while it's less common for Mirena to affect weight, it can and does in some people.
AGREED! When he says "just move", you should MOVE to another Doctor.0 -
If you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
And if you need another opinion, seek out another Dr - don't troll MFP for somebody to agree with you.
Agree. I would bet that if there were a recording or transcript of most doctor/patient conversations alluded to on these boards you'd be amazed at how different the actual visit really was from what is being reported. It's like going to your friend and saying -" let me tell you what a jerk my boyfriend is. Don't you think he's being a jerk. Yeah, I thought so too."0 -
I wear the bodymedia too, and have found it to be incredibly accurate. If you are using that, what does it say your calorie burn for the day is? I go anywhere from 2500 on a lazy day to 3300 on a very active day, usually fall at right about 3000. And my BMR is over 1800 and I weigh less than you, thinking yours should be too considering the activity level you mentioned. But 2800 for a BMR I think is high, Maybe that is you TDEE? I could not survive on 1500 calories on an active day! On a lazy day, yes.
Keep in mind that your calorie burn from bodymedia is not your BMR.0 -
I think you should get a second opinion, as it sounds like he's guessing and doesn't really know what he's talking about. As you stated, you have thyroid problems, and I know someone who has that and it is really tough for them to lose any weight because of the thyroid problem. Have you seen a thyroid specialist? They might have more information on what you can do to lose the weight if that's causing you to not lose weight. I've had issues with most of the doctor's I see, and I believe you should be very picky with what doctor you choose.0
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If you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
And if you need another opinion, seek out another Dr - don't troll MFP for somebody to agree with you.
Sounds like you just want to eat more.
Join the club.
Either take your doctor's advice, or fire him and seek medical services elsewhere.
Good Luck:flowerforyou:
You sir must be related to the doctor as you sound like a jerk too!
He is a jerk for expressing his opinion??!?0 -
I would see about getting a referral to a nutritionist. They can help you way more then a primary care can. Good luck!0
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The thyroid imbalance itself is hormonal. This is something that needs to be in balance even if its with meds.
I have health issues as well with hypothyroidism is one of them. It makes it WAY harder to lose weight. You, me, have to work harder than the average person to lose the same weight.
Most doctors know what they are doing, they have years of study. This would be something a general doc would know.
At your size, your body needs a deficit to burn off the fat. You will need to move.
I think in your doctor telling you to not do what you are doing now he is thinking long term. You could do serious damage to joints (knees, hips, ankles) and not be aware of it at all until you are much older and it’s too late.
So just be open enough to try what he suggested. If you don’t see changes at all, no inches lost, no weight lost then go back. You can always get a second opinion while you are following his suggestions.
I’m 5'9" and started out 235#.. I was given a 1200 cal diet and low carb. I hated it at first but its worked. I had extreme adrenal fatigue, hypothyroidism, PCOS, I was insulin resistant, had high blood pressure, amount other things..
Its 8 months later, I’ve lost considerable inches, a good amount of weight, and have more energy than I did at your age and Im 46...
I'm off high blood pressure meds, have been for months, I am working on the rest of it. Nothing comes easy..
There aren’t docs here… Just others who are wanting the same things.. Health and fitness and smaller sized clothes0 -
I don't exactly agree with the way Bobbi said (because I am a girl and know this is emotional for you) it but I agree with what he said!
Go see a different doctor, especially if you don't feel like your best interests are being served. Good luck girl! Never let anyone make you feel like you are not working you rear off!! Chin up and seek better advice! ~CorinaIf you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
And if you need another opinion, seek out another Dr - don't troll MFP for somebody to agree with you.
Sounds like you just want to eat more.
Join the club.
Either take your doctor's advice, or fire him and seek medical services elsewhere.
Good Luck:flowerforyou:0 -
I average 3k on it on a normal day.I wear the bodymedia too, and have found it to be incredibly accurate. If you are using that, what does it say your calorie burn for the day is? I go anywhere from 2500 on a lazy day to 3300 on a very active day, usually fall at right about 3000. And my BMR is over 1800 and I weigh less than you, thinking yours should be too considering the activity level you mentioned. But 2800 for a BMR I think is high, Maybe that is you TDEE? I could not survive on 1500 calories on an active day! On a lazy day, yes.
Keep in mind that your calorie burn from bodymedia is not your BMR.0 -
Right, and we wonder why doctors don't tell people the frank truth any longer. We're such a nation of namby-pamby's.If you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
And if you need another opinion, seek out another Dr - don't troll MFP for somebody to agree with you.
Sounds like you just want to eat more.
Join the club.
Either take your doctor's advice, or fire him and seek medical services elsewhere.
Good Luck:flowerforyou:
^^^^THAT! Doctors are jerks for this very reason. We would rather listen to people who tell us what we want to hear.
Boo Hoo, your bedside manor was harsh....
Here is what my doctor said...
"Bobby, you're FAT! F.A.T -- FAT stands for FATAL, AWFUL, TERRIBLE! And you are FAT! If you can lose 50 lbs, you won't need any of these medications or that CPap".
Gulp
Instead of firing my doctor, I heeded his advice, and I take no medication and ditched the CPap.
nation of namby-pamby's... that was just the cutest thing.0 -
i would say you could safely eat 2000 a day to lose two pounds a week. if you dont want to lose that quickly, eat 2500 to lose 1 pound week.
I average 3k on it on a normal day.I wear the bodymedia too, and have found it to be incredibly accurate. If you are using that, what does it say your calorie burn for the day is? I go anywhere from 2500 on a lazy day to 3300 on a very active day, usually fall at right about 3000. And my BMR is over 1800 and I weigh less than you, thinking yours should be too considering the activity level you mentioned. But 2800 for a BMR I think is high, Maybe that is you TDEE? I could not survive on 1500 calories on an active day! On a lazy day, yes.
Keep in mind that your calorie burn from bodymedia is not your BMR.0 -
Thanks all
I'm going to try to stick with the 1500 for a.month
And if I don't feel any better ill see another doctor.
I really didn't want to see a doc and cause drama i really just wanted
Some clarity.
I'll Definitly look into the sleep apnea. :flowerforyou:
Sorry for all the slow responses to questions on pages
3 and 4 I wad typing on my phone.0 -
I would fire his *kitten* and get a new doctor!!!
^^^ THIS! You should have a doctor who is a partner - willing to listen to your concerns and address them WITH you. You should not be dismissed like that!0 -
Thanks all
I'm going to try to stick with the 1500 for a.month
And if I don't feel any better ill see another doctor.
I really didn't want to see a doc and cause drama i really just wanted
Some clarity.
I'll Definitly look into the sleep apnea. :flowerforyou:
Sorry for all the slow responses to questions on pages
3 and 4 I wad typing on my phone.
I think that's a good idea. That 3000 you see on your BodyMedia isn't a BMR estimate. It's estimating your TOTAL calorie expenditure for the day. You don't need to worry about going below your BMR or 'eating back'. 1500 might be tough but even at 2000 you should lose 2 lbs./week if you're really good at tracking and even if you don't move much.
Good luck to you! :flowerforyou:0 -
One other thing with the sleep -- have you had a sleep study done? At your weight, sleep apnea is a very common disorder that could cause the problems you've described.
Bottom line, I agree with everyone who said to get a second opinion. And when you do, mention the things that have been mentioned here.
Sorry, I havn't, but I do know that I average between 6-7 hours of broken sleep a night. On my days of I get closer to 8 or 9 but it's also broken.
Get one done. You have all the classic symptoms of an apnea sufferer. You will never lose weight without treating the condition. Do some research on it and get yourself tested. You have described every symptom and side effect of it.0
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