Cardio before strength

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  • KINGoftheBUFF
    KINGoftheBUFF Posts: 67 Member
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    Cardio warm-up before strength is correct. I suggest no more than 10 minutes to get warmed up.

    However to burn the most amount of bodyfat, irregardless of what your heart rate monitor says, you need to understand how your energy systems work. Weight training, anaerobic activity should be done before cardio. Simply put, weight training drains your muscles glycogen stores (your bodies primary fuel source), and when followed up by cardio, your body then fuels the activity by burning your bodyfat.

    An ideal session would include 10 - 15 minutes of stretching and cardio.
    45 - 60 minutes weights.
    15 - 20 minutes cardio.

    Never exeed 90 minutes in one session.

    Hope that anwers your question....and if you really want results, ask me about epoc. (exercise post oxygen consumption)
  • markymarrkk
    markymarrkk Posts: 495 Member
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    Yes it's true... you gotta think about what your goals are though. I always lift first, I read through an extensive study that said that the best gains overall in terms of strength, performance and fat loss is maintaining heart rate inbetween sets of heavy strength training. so like jump rope in between your sets.
  • MzMandi1025
    MzMandi1025 Posts: 78 Member
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    Sounds about right. I've tried lifting before I do my cardio & I don't burn quite as much. But if I do about 10-15 min of cardio, then lift, I'll burn more. After I'm done lifting, I'll finish off the last 20 min of cardio. I think it has something to do with your heart rate being up. You'll burn more calories.
  • jcmartin0313
    jcmartin0313 Posts: 574 Member
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    Cardio warm-up before strength is correct. I suggest no more than 10 minutes to get warmed up.

    However to burn the most amount of bodyfat, irregardless of what your heart rate monitor says, you need to understand how your energy systems work. Weight training, anaerobic activity should be done before cardio. Simply put, weight training drains your muscles glycogen stores (your bodies primary fuel source), and when followed up by cardio, your body then fuels the activity by burning your bodyfat.

    An ideal session would include 10 - 15 minutes of stretching and cardio.
    45 - 60 minutes weights.
    15 - 20 minutes cardio.

    Never exeed 90 minutes in one session.

    Hope that anwers your question....and if you really want results, ask me about epoc. (exercise post oxygen consumption)

    I would listen to this guy!
  • ali_b83
    ali_b83 Posts: 324 Member
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    Cardio warm-up before strength is correct. I suggest no more than 10 minutes to get warmed up.

    However to burn the most amount of bodyfat, irregardless of what your heart rate monitor says, you need to understand how your energy systems work. Weight training, anaerobic activity should be done before cardio. Simply put, weight training drains your muscles glycogen stores (your bodies primary fuel source), and when followed up by cardio, your body then fuels the activity by burning your bodyfat.

    An ideal session would include 10 - 15 minutes of stretching and cardio.
    45 - 60 minutes weights.
    15 - 20 minutes cardio.

    Never exeed 90 minutes in one session.

    Hope that anwers your question....and if you really want results, ask me about epoc. (exercise post oxygen consumption)

    This goes with everything I've read, from experts and bodybuilders. I'd rather do cardio last anyways, because I personally want the strength and energy to lift at my maximum potential.
  • realme56
    realme56 Posts: 1,093 Member
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    Cardio warm-up before strength is correct. I suggest no more than 10 minutes to get warmed up.

    However to burn the most amount of bodyfat, irregardless of what your heart rate monitor says, you need to understand how your energy systems work. Weight training, anaerobic activity should be done before cardio. Simply put, weight training drains your muscles glycogen stores (your bodies primary fuel source), and when followed up by cardio, your body then fuels the activity by burning your bodyfat.

    An ideal session would include 10 - 15 minutes of stretching and cardio.
    45 - 60 minutes weights.
    15 - 20 minutes cardio.

    Never exeed 90 minutes in one session.

    Hope that anwers your question....and if you really want results, ask me about epoc. (exercise post oxygen consumption)

    This is what I am doing right now and I feel great! Still getting rid of stress weight gain but technically I lost 2# since starting this routine this week.
  • paintlisapurple
    paintlisapurple Posts: 982 Member
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    I am noooooooo expert, but I find I feel that I'm working much more smoothly if I do my elliptical for at least 10-15 mins first and that is how I end every workout, with another 10-15. It works for me because it doesnt get as boring as doing it all in one big chunk and I really work a good sweat that way too. (ewww.) lol.

    I just read more of the posts and someone seems to know a lot about how bodies use energy...Its good to know I'm doing something right. (It just felt right if that makes any sense.) :glasses:
  • Ulfgard
    Ulfgard Posts: 49 Member
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    No. Your HRM doesn't know what you are doing when you lift, so it's just plain wrong. You cannot use an HRM for lifting. It will always be wrong.

    I guess your heart stops while doing weights
  • neverstray
    neverstray Posts: 3,845 Member
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    No. Your HRM doesn't know what you are doing when you lift, so it's just plain wrong. You cannot use an HRM for lifting. It will always be wrong.

    I guess your heart stops while doing weights

    Oh brother! Read back a bit. Some nice folks answered the question.

    Yes, back to the topic, a 5 or 10 minute cardio warm up is necessary. I always warm up, usually jumping jacks and running in place, a Lille stretching, then lifting, then I go for a run. I've always done it in that order. And, I agree with not exceeding 90 minutes for the whole thing.
  • markymarrkk
    markymarrkk Posts: 495 Member
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    No. Your HRM doesn't know what you are doing when you lift, so it's just plain wrong. You cannot use an HRM for lifting. It will always be wrong.


    Would you explain this please? If it is keeping track of your heart rate, why is it not accurate?



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_striated_muscle

    Type II fibers don't use oxygen to do work. Your heart beats faster because of increased oxygen demand on your body. Thats why it's somewhat accurate when used to calculate calories burned. x amount of beats and y amount of oxygen per beat = z amount of calories burned. Since Type II fibres are anaerobic, no oxygen means no accurate measure of calories burned.

    for strength training, as a general rule, the more intense your lift, regardless of heartrate, the more calories burned. Meaning it could be anywhere from not much, up to into the stratosphere for an hour of lifting.

    LOVE IT! ^ YUP
  • iWaffle
    iWaffle Posts: 2,208 Member
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    So if you had testing done to see at what heart rates your body changes from aerobic to anaerobic would you then have a more accurate measure? I truly am trying to learn and want to understand this.

    Maybe more accurate but it's not just the heart rate. It's the amount of usable oxygen in your blood that determines when you switch to anaerobic state. On top of that you could be mostly running at an aerobic state and switch to anaerobic state within the specific muscles that you're directly working. Some of your total muscle mass (3%-5% I think) is nothing but stored glycogen and can be used instantly right there on the spot without the need for your heart or lungs to catch up or increase rate. It's not as if you have one thermostat in your body that says "Okay, everyone switch to anaerobic state now." This is done at the cellular level so each individual cell has it's own switch on what to do. The body is way more complex than just your heart rate.
  • shaycat
    shaycat Posts: 980
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    Cardio warm-up before strength is correct. I suggest no more than 10 minutes to get warmed up.

    However to burn the most amount of bodyfat, irregardless of what your heart rate monitor says, you need to understand how your energy systems work. Weight training, anaerobic activity should be done before cardio. Simply put, weight training drains your muscles glycogen stores (your bodies primary fuel source), and when followed up by cardio, your body then fuels the activity by burning your bodyfat.

    An ideal session would include 10 - 15 minutes of stretching and cardio.
    45 - 60 minutes weights.
    15 - 20 minutes cardio.

    Never exeed 90 minutes in one session.

    Hope that anwers your question....and if you really want results, ask me about epoc. (exercise post oxygen consumption)

    This goes with everything I've read, from experts and bodybuilders. I'd rather do cardio last anyways, because I personally want the strength and energy to lift at my maximum potential.

    I will defiantly do this all next week. Thank you!
  • Jynus
    Jynus Posts: 519 Member
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    During intense strength exercise your body will run into a shortage of oxygen and switch from aerobic to anaerobic and will start creating ATP from carbohydrates without the use of oxygen. Energy conversion happens faster in anaerobic conditions at the expense of less energy produced. It gives you a tremendous amount of usable energy that heart rate monitors can't measure because your heart doesn't have to pump all the energy to those muscles like it does during cardio exercise. The liver stores much of this but some of the energy is already there stored in the muscle and can be used instantly.

    I don't think HRMs are designed to monitor this energy output. You would need to have a VO2 sensor and probably some type of blood glucose monitor to accurately determine the difference between when your body switched from aerobic to anaerobic. That's way beyond what a HRM was designed for. It's strictly for aerobic exercise. I'm sure there's some truth to calories burned based on your breathing and heart rate but it's not going to be accurate for strength training.

    So if you had testing done to see at what heart rates your body changes from aerobic to anaerobic would you then have a more accurate measure? I truly am trying to learn and want to understand this.
    heartrate has nothing to do with it. There is no heartrate cuttoff when anaerobic exercise kicks in. It's intensity. If you lift or do anything at a high enough intensity, your body uses Type II fibres to do it.

    To put it another way, your body has engines that power the muscles. to keep it simple, a car engine, and a jet engine. The heart rate monitor measures gasoline consumption of the car engine. since a Jet engine does not use gas, your gas monitoring HRM is unable to measure the jetfuel burned. Different energy systems in the body. The HRM measures the cardio system. It is unable to measure the lactic acid or ATP-CP energy system.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_systems
  • 19kat55
    19kat55 Posts: 336 Member
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    So if you had testing done to see at what heart rates your body changes from aerobic to anaerobic would you then have a more accurate measure? I truly am trying to learn and want to understand this.

    Maybe more accurate but it's not just the heart rate. It's the amount of usable oxygen in your blood that determines when you switch to anaerobic state. On top of that you could be mostly running at an aerobic state and switch to anaerobic state within the specific muscles that you're directly working. Some of your total muscle mass (3%-5% I think) is nothing but stored glycogen and can be used instantly right there on the spot without the need for your heart or lungs to catch up or increase rate. It's not as if you have one thermostat in your body that says "Okay, everyone switch to anaerobic state now." This is done at the cellular level so each individual cell has it's own switch on what to do. The body is way more complex than just your heart rate.


    Thank you!
  • 19kat55
    19kat55 Posts: 336 Member
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    During intense strength exercise your body will run into a shortage of oxygen and switch from aerobic to anaerobic and will start creating ATP from carbohydrates without the use of oxygen. Energy conversion happens faster in anaerobic conditions at the expense of less energy produced. It gives you a tremendous amount of usable energy that heart rate monitors can't measure because your heart doesn't have to pump all the energy to those muscles like it does during cardio exercise. The liver stores much of this but some of the energy is already there stored in the muscle and can be used instantly.

    I don't think HRMs are designed to monitor this energy output. You would need to have a VO2 sensor and probably some type of blood glucose monitor to accurately determine the difference between when your body switched from aerobic to anaerobic. That's way beyond what a HRM was designed for. It's strictly for aerobic exercise. I'm sure there's some truth to calories burned based on your breathing and heart rate but it's not going to be accurate for strength training.

    So if you had testing done to see at what heart rates your body changes from aerobic to anaerobic would you then have a more accurate measure? I truly am trying to learn and want to understand this.
    heartrate has nothing to do with it. There is no heartrate cuttoff when anaerobic exercise kicks in. It's intensity. If you lift or do anything at a high enough intensity, your body uses Type II fibres to do it.

    To put it another way, your body has engines that power the muscles. to keep it simple, a car engine, and a jet engine. The heart rate monitor measures gasoline consumption of the car engine. since a Jet engine does not use gas, your gas monitoring HRM is unable to measure the jetfuel burned. Different energy systems in the body. The HRM measures the cardio system. It is unable to measure the lactic acid or ATP-CP energy system.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_systems

    Thanks for this! Now this is something I can easily grasp the concept. Thanks!
  • JustinM86
    JustinM86 Posts: 37
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    Cardio warm-up before strength is correct. I suggest no more than 10 minutes to get warmed up.

    However to burn the most amount of bodyfat, irregardless of what your heart rate monitor says, you need to understand how your energy systems work. Weight training, anaerobic activity should be done before cardio. Simply put, weight training drains your muscles glycogen stores (your bodies primary fuel source), and when followed up by cardio, your body then fuels the activity by burning your bodyfat.

    An ideal session would include 10 - 15 minutes of stretching and cardio.
    45 - 60 minutes weights.
    15 - 20 minutes cardio.

    Never exeed 90 minutes in one session.

    Hope that anwers your question....and if you really want results, ask me about epoc. (exercise post oxygen consumption)

    Excellent information. Burn off the sugars first, then the body is more inclined to metabolized fat for fuel.
  • shaycat
    shaycat Posts: 980
    Options
    During intense strength exercise your body will run into a shortage of oxygen and switch from aerobic to anaerobic and will start creating ATP from carbohydrates without the use of oxygen. Energy conversion happens faster in anaerobic conditions at the expense of less energy produced. It gives you a tremendous amount of usable energy that heart rate monitors can't measure because your heart doesn't have to pump all the energy to those muscles like it does during cardio exercise. The liver stores much of this but some of the energy is already there stored in the muscle and can be used instantly.

    I don't think HRMs are designed to monitor this energy output. You would need to have a VO2 sensor and probably some type of blood glucose monitor to accurately determine the difference between when your body switched from aerobic to anaerobic. That's way beyond what a HRM was designed for. It's strictly for aerobic exercise. I'm sure there's some truth to calories burned based on your breathing and heart rate but it's not going to be accurate for strength training.

    So if you had testing done to see at what heart rates your body changes from aerobic to anaerobic would you then have a more accurate measure? I truly am trying to learn and want to understand this.
    heartrate has nothing to do with it. There is no heartrate cuttoff when anaerobic exercise kicks in. It's intensity. If you lift or do anything at a high enough intensity, your body uses Type II fibres to do it.

    To put it another way, your body has engines that power the muscles. to keep it simple, a car engine, and a jet engine. The heart rate monitor measures gasoline consumption of the car engine. since a Jet engine does not use gas, your gas monitoring HRM is unable to measure the jetfuel burned. Different energy systems in the body. The HRM measures the cardio system. It is unable to measure the lactic acid or ATP-CP energy system.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_systems

    I totally get that. I use a HRM to give me an idea of how many calories to "eat back" I just switched back to this after gaining some weight when I had one set calorie goal.
    So would I be over eating if I eat back my calories my HRM says I burn while lifting?
  • iWaffle
    iWaffle Posts: 2,208 Member
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    So would I be over eating if I eat back my calories my HRM says I burn while lifting?
    Personally I don't count any calories for lifting just cardio. I know it burns quite a few but it's too subjective. I'd rather be under than over and if you lose too fast you can always adjust it upwards slightly.
  • geekyjock76
    geekyjock76 Posts: 2,720 Member
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    heartrate has nothing to do with it. There is no heartrate cuttoff when anaerobic exercise kicks in. It's intensity. If you lift or do anything at a high enough intensity, your body uses Type II fibres to do it.
    Just to extrapolate: Intensity here can refer to both resistance and speed. Lifting a heavy object will recruit both slow and fast twitch fibers as will rapidly moving against resistance. Much of what we do in every day life requires both fast and slow twitch muscle fibers so its important to train them adequately. Keep in mind there are two kinds of Type II (fast twitch) fibers: Type IIa can use both aerobic and anaerobic systems where as Type IIb is exclusively anaerobic.

    This is why I tell people to consider volume when doing strength training. The person lifting really light weights while not exerting themselves simply is not providing enough stimulus to recruit the Type II fibers. What's the impact of this? For the average person, 50% of your muscle mass is Type I and the rest is Type II. Conditioning half of your muscle mass will lead to several issues (imbalance between fiber types) but will ultimately negate a lot of progress and limit results.
  • ExplorinLauren
    ExplorinLauren Posts: 991 Member
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    No. Your HRM doesn't know what you are doing when you lift, so it's just plain wrong. You cannot use an HRM for lifting. It will always be wrong.

    Seriously? Is this for real?
    The WHOLE reason I bought a HRM was to see what I was doing while weight lifting :( I thought my FitBit was useless in this area because it just counted steps, and didn't know what I was doing while really exercising ... so I bought the HRM to give me more accurate results :(

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