Fasting for weight loss vs. anorexia
Replies
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I would say that with fasting, it is conscious and controlled, but with an ED fasting is part of the all consuming fear of gaining weight, of losing control, of something bad happening should they eat. It also can tend to become an addiction to eating less and less and seeing the number go down and down past a point that is healthy. I think people going on fasts could probably quite easily slip into anorexia if they have issues underlying or are of a certain personality type. At my worst, I was living on half a rice cake a day and was 70Ibs at 5'11. It started as a diet, and became an all consuming obsession, controlling most aspects of my life, and giving me a fear that I would lose control of everything if I lost control of my weight and eating. Health never entered my mind until my lips were blue on a regular basis and my parents were told I would die within 24 hours if I did not eat. I don't think intermittent fasting is an ED but I think it could become an ED if in the wrong hands, so to speak, the same as going on a diet can become an ED given the right set of circumstances.0
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I seriously doubt most people with EDs understand everything that is an ED. As a matter of fact, I'm guessing no one on this planet knows everything biological and psychological about EDs, else there would be an end-all cure.
and by the way... sufferers of an ED most certainly do understand what it is to have an ED. they are the ones suffering from it, after all. they may not understand the reasons for them having it or full extent of their issues that led to it, but i assure you they know what it is to have one.
I don't think many ED sufferers do understand, the ones in remission and seeking help do, but there are a lot of people ON THIS SITE that clearly have disordered eating habits and are still denying it, even though the evidence is in black and white.
And that isn't even what I said in my post, I said they don't "understand everything that is ED" just like you originally said only people who have EDs can "understand everything that is ED". The human mind is extremely complex and very poorly understood scientifically.
i've had an ED before. it landed me in the hospital.
you're right, denial is a huge part of an ED, for those that are, well, in denial about it.
i didn't say that only those who have experienced an ED are the ones who can understand what it is. mental health professionals would too. but also anyone directly affected by one, maybe by a family member or close friend. or anyone who's genuinly learned about it. but experiencing one first hand does put you in a different class than those who haven't. take for example depression... you can't possibly "know" what its like to have depression if you've never had it. just like with anything, from psychiatric disorders to biological diseases to physical traumas, experiencing it for yourself is the only way to truly know how it feels.
to sit back and call anyone who practices controlled fasting an "anorexic" is downright ignorant. i don't personally fast, but i can assure you that fasting does not immediately denote that one has anorexia.0 -
woops. double post.0
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Forgive my ignorance, but I fail to see the difference.
For someone with an ED (in year 9 of recovery) I'm not sure what the difference is. Aren't you both doing it to lose weight? Is anorexia just fasting taken too far?
Discuss!
I dont really agree at all Intermittant Fasting is actually good for you and has many health benefits:
Decreased Bodyfat/Weight
Maintenance of Skeletal Muscle Mass
Decreased Blood Glucose Levels
Decreased Insulin Levels and Increased Insulin Sensitivity (Approx 70% reduction in the first 24 Hours of Fasting)
Increase LIPOLYSIS (Woohoo) & Fat Oxidation (Between 18 and 24 Hours increase by over 50%)
Increased Uncoupling Protein 3 mRNA (at about 15 hour mark you 5 times more fat burning potential)
Increased Norephrine and Epinephrine Levels (meaning your more alert)
Increased Glucagon Levels
Increased Growth Hormone Levels
That said someone with a history of ED may want to tread carefully in case it lead them down a familiar path.
I have been doing IF for nearly three weeks and I will fantastic more energy I dont have to cope with 5-6 crappy meals that dont fill me anymore and best of all I am eating Bodyfat =D.0 -
To me anorexia and other eating disorders have little to do with how much the person eats. To be technically anorexic you must fall below a certain body weight but there's so much more to it than that. Anorexia is a disease of the mind. Fasting for the sake of losing weight might not be anorexia if the person is able to break the fast willingly at any time. On the other hand, I know lots of people with eating disorders that do not fast and actually eat a healthy amount of calories. But they are sick in the head and obsess about every single calorie that they eat. I used to be like this and still struggle with it...it bothered me that there is little known about EDNOS compared to the other disorders.
Anyway for your definition, I'd say that if the person cannot break the fast if they chose to, there might be something deeper psychologically. But really you'd have to look deeper than just what they eat to determine anorexia or not. Goodluck, glad your'e doing better!0 -
woops. double post.
That just means that you really really meant it... :flowerforyou:0 -
I fasted for two weeks (medically supervised) and it was one of the best experiences of my life.
I don't have any sort of food disorder. I didn't do it to lose weight. I received numerous health benefits from my experience. Did I mention that it changed my life?
Fasting taught me how to listen to my body, it taught me how to make my body listen to my mind, and it taught me how to find a healthy balance between my wants and needs. I wouldn't change a single second of my experience, and I definitely don't find the anorexia =extreme fasting comparison remotely fair.0 -
I fasted for two weeks (medically supervised) and it was one of the best experiences of my life.
I don't have any sort of food disorder. I didn't do it to lose weight. I received numerous health benefits from my experience. Did I mention that it changed my life?
Fasting taught me how to listen to my body, it taught me how to make my body listen to my mind, and it taught me how to find a healthy balance between my wants and needs. I wouldn't change a single second of my experience, and I definitely don't find the anorexia =extreme fasting comparison remotely fair.
Key words: Medically supervised
I don't think all fasters experience ED. I think the ones who think "I'm going to consume nothing but water for two weeks to lose weight" are heading that way.0 -
woops. double post.
That just means that you really really meant it... :flowerforyou:
and a flower for you too
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woops. double post.
That just means that you really really meant it... :flowerforyou:
and a flower for you too
More of a wink, but I'll take it! :glasses:0 -
i would never fast. all the people on my friends list that fast on a regular basis clearly have eating disorders in my opinion because even when they aren't fasting, they are only eating 400-600 calories a day. needless to say they get deleted pretty quickly as i cannot stand to watch some one do that to themselves.
So, I'm not on your friends list, but when I'm not fasting I eat somewhere between 1900 and 2400 calories a day, depending on what my workout was like that day.
so i guess this wasnt directed to you then, was it?0 -
honestly, if you are recovering you should stay away from topics like this....believe me, I'm not criticizing you, but you could connect with people that may trigger old feelings or habits. BE CAREFUL.0
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... When I was in highschool, I was in wrestling, and we were frequently called upon to gain and lose weight because it was a girl team and honestly we had to move people around in weight classes because women.. gain weight and lose weight and then someone else has to gain or lose weight to make up for their suckiness.
Also, losing fast, because we were kids, and we'd eat fast food and gain like 10101010 lbs in waterweight.
ANYWAYS. So, in highschool, being told you have a week to lose 12 lbs, or whatever the amount is, I would take a huge laxative, not eat anything, run around in plastic bags and sweatsuits.. or sit at a table and eat huge burger, huge fries, huge piece of pie, huge milkshake, to gain that weight later on plus more.
While that could have easily lead to an ED, it didn't. There was no emotional value to it. Eat a ton, eat nothing. Either way, no neurosis, no bad feelings, no disorder. Just a person doing something ridiculously unhealthy and suffering no mental damage because of it.0 -
Anorexia is a downward spiral and a progressive disorder rooted in the mind.
Fasting is a physical practice, undertaken for religious, political, or health reasons (such as Master Cleanse, intermittent fasting, etc.).
I would say that if you are fasting for the sake of vanity--i.e. the poster who said she wasn't gonna eat for 10 days--then you are toeing the line between them...and that is usually a wide line, my friend.
I have always done random things to my body for the sake of proving something to myself or others...see how long I can stay up without getting sleepy (40 hours), see how long I can go without eating (48 hours), etc. I am still young and stupid, but I don't do those things anymore. :laugh: But other than that, I don't fast more than the usual person (time between going to sleep and eating breakfast).0 -
I spent 6 years in a dietetics program at Arizona State University. The health benefits of fasting are equal to what can be achieved through specialized diet. For example, research shows that IF can be beneficial for cardiac tissue. You can achieve the same effects through cayenne supplements. For all the benefits of fasting, there are safer ways to meet your goals (unless you're doing it medically supervised.)Please don't consider fasting as an option for weight loss because you will mainly lose muscle and not feed your body properly.
This is not true ^^
Please learn a little more about how fasting works.0 -
An eating disorder is different from fasting in two respects: (1) many people fast for health reasons (as mentioned by others on this site); (2) there is no psychological dysfunction causing the fasting (instead it is the goal of becoming healthy).0
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So if someone is fasting (even if just intermittently) just to 'look better,' is that still fasting or is that getting into ED territory?0
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With no other context I would honestly say no. If it were because the person had an irrational fear of gaining weight and felt in control because of the fast, well then yes.So if someone is fasting (even if just intermittently) just to 'look better,' is that still fasting or is that getting into ED territory?0 -
So if someone is fasting (even if just intermittently) just to 'look better,' is that still fasting or is that getting into ED territory?
I'm not sure why you are still so confused on this topic after four pages of posts from obviously very smart people ...especially since you went to a university for some sort of nutrition or whatever...obviously you should have some knowledge on this topic and the human body...surely psychology should have been a prerequisite too, explaining how mental disorders play a factor in ED's?? I have to question if you are worried that your eating habits are leaning towards an ED which started this forum to begin with?? Just saying.....you keep asking the same thing over and over. Google it if you still "don't get it" in my opinion.0 -
i would never fast. all the people on my friends list that fast on a regular basis clearly have eating disorders in my opinion because even when they aren't fasting, they are only eating 400-600 calories a day. needless to say they get deleted pretty quickly as i cannot stand to watch some one do that to themselves.
So, I'm not on your friends list, but when I'm not fasting I eat somewhere between 1900 and 2400 calories a day, depending on what my workout was like that day.
so i guess this wasnt directed to you then, was it?
Actually, it was directed at me, and everyone else reading this thread, and attempted to make a statement about people who fast.
You structured your argument using a sample of the population to support your position that people who fast are under-eaters (and I would guess, by extension, have eating disorders). The unstated implication is that your sample is representative of people who fast, and therefore people who fast don't eat enough, and have eating disorders. I was merely pointing out that your sample is not representative, and your attempt to paint people who fast as having eating disorders doesn't really hold water.0 -
I spent 6 years in a dietetics program at Arizona State University. The health benefits of fasting are equal to what can be achieved through specialized diet. For example, research shows that IF can be beneficial for cardiac tissue. You can achieve the same effects through cayenne supplements. For all the benefits of fasting, there are safer ways to meet your goals (unless you're doing it medically supervised.)Please don't consider fasting as an option for weight loss because you will mainly lose muscle and not feed your body properly.
This is not true ^^
Please learn a little more about how fasting works.
But there's nothing unsafe about controlled, educated fasting, so I guess it's just a preference. (and I still don't get why everyone keeps using the term 'intermittent' - of course it's intermittent!)0 -
So if someone is fasting (even if just intermittently) just to 'look better,' is that still fasting or is that getting into ED territory?
I'm not sure why you are still so confused on this topic after four pages of posts from obviously very smart people ...especially since you went to a university for some sort of nutrition or whatever...obviously you should have some knowledge on this topic and the human body...surely psychology should have been a prerequisite too, explaining how mental disorders play a factor in ED's?? I have to question if you are worried that your eating habits are leaning towards an ED which started this forum to begin with?? Just saying.....you keep asking the same thing over and over. Google it if you still "don't get it" in my opinion.
^^Agree with this^^
Saying things like "just to look better" is imprecise and unhelpful, and tries to diminish why people fast. Fasting, when done correctly, is a safe and healthy way to lose fat. Does this also lead to looking better? Probably. But that's the standard side benefit of any dieting and exercise plan.0 -
So if someone is fasting (even if just intermittently) just to 'look better,' is that still fasting or is that getting into ED territory?
I'm not sure why you are still so confused on this topic after four pages of posts from obviously very smart people ...especially since you went to a university for some sort of nutrition or whatever...obviously you should have some knowledge on this topic and the human body...surely psychology should have been a prerequisite too, explaining how mental disorders play a factor in ED's?? I have to question if you are worried that your eating habits are leaning towards an ED which started this forum to begin with?? Just saying.....you keep asking the same thing over and over. Google it if you still "don't get it" in my opinion.
^^Agree with this^^
Saying things like "just to look better" is imprecise and unhelpful, and tries to diminish why people fast. Fasting, when done correctly, is a safe and healthy way to lose fat. Does this also lead to looking better? Probably. But that's the standard side benefit of any dieting and exercise plan.
No need to get hostile. Nowhere did I mention ANY concern over my eating habits. Many people ATTACKED my knowledge of ED or expressed concern over my 'habits' when a proper reading of my postings would clearly show that I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE FASTING.
Very easily put, I understand ED. I'm gathering OPINIONS on how people feel some fasting is ED and some is not and where the line is drawn.
Sheesh. Relax.0 -
So if someone is fasting (even if just intermittently) just to 'look better,' is that still fasting or is that getting into ED territory?
I'm not sure why you are still so confused on this topic after four pages of posts from obviously very smart people ...especially since you went to a university for some sort of nutrition or whatever...obviously you should have some knowledge on this topic and the human body...surely psychology should have been a prerequisite too, explaining how mental disorders play a factor in ED's?? I have to question if you are worried that your eating habits are leaning towards an ED which started this forum to begin with?? Just saying.....you keep asking the same thing over and over. Google it if you still "don't get it" in my opinion.
^^Agree with this^^
Saying things like "just to look better" is imprecise and unhelpful, and tries to diminish why people fast. Fasting, when done correctly, is a safe and healthy way to lose fat. Does this also lead to looking better? Probably. But that's the standard side benefit of any dieting and exercise plan.
No need to get hostile. Nowhere did I mention ANY concern over my eating habits. Many people ATTACKED my knowledge of ED or expressed concern over my 'habits' when a proper reading of my postings would clearly show that I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE FASTING.
Very easily put, I understand ED. I'm gathering OPINIONS on how people feel some fasting is ED and some is not and where the line is drawn.
Sheesh. Relax.
Not hostile by any means....just stating facts. I can't imagine someone who is 9 years recovering from an ED would not be able to understand this. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Sorry to offend. I just wasn't getting what you weren't getting.0 -
I don't understand why people would fast. To me, it seems dangerously close to ED.
-I misunderstood your tone, my apologies.0 -
OP, it seems somewhat disordered to me too, even though I know it can be done in a healthy way. It just depends on the mindset of the individual. Some people are most susceptible to developing EDs than others. I know a guy who used to struggle with binge eating disorder, now he does fasting where he will regularly go 24 hours without eating. I don't think someone with that sort of history is someone who should be fasting for weight loss. My SO does intermittent fasting but he definitely doesn't have an ED, he's just trying it out to see if it "works" for him. He is taking in enough calories and never restricts what he eats otherwise, so I'm not concerned. I definitely think some people could use it as an excuse to mask a true disorder though.0
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Humans are built to think anything they personally don't get is strange and perhaps dangerous. Personally, I think long distance runners have a disorder.0
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I thought fasting was usually for religious purposes.0
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I don't understand why people would fast. To me, it seems dangerously close to ED.
-I misunderstood your tone, my apologies.
No biggie. I understand that confusion. I have MFP friends who say they are in recovery and then mention doing a fast. To me these people aren't in recovery....they are still using ED behavior habits but hiding it with the word "fast."
True peole who fast will sometimes fast one thing like chocolate or pop, etc....no full meals. Those that fast full meals are usually the ones that do it for religious reasons and use that meal time for prayer. It is a thin line. I don't think people who have ever had an ED should ever fast where food is concerned because it could lead them back in that direction.0 -
Forgive my ignorance, but I fail to see the difference.
For someone with an ED (in year 9 of recovery) I'm not sure what the difference is. Aren't you both doing it to lose weight? Is anorexia just fasting taken too far?
Discuss!
if you had an ED for nine years your converrsatons with your doctor should have been able to answer this question
- An eating disorder (in this case anorexia) is a MENTAL ILLNESS (it is the mental illness with the HIGHEST rate of death.) It has a range of DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA because it is an illness. These are mental AS WELL AS physical criteria that would indicate an eating disorder and result in a diagnosis. people suffering from EDs are no longer making a choice in their eating patterns as they are in the midst of a mental illness that takes away theyre perspective- most often it is an expression of an anxiety disorder.
- a fast is obstaining from food for a given amount of time.
really quite different..0
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