Food addiction, Over eating is very similar to Alcoholism and other addictions..
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Just from personal experience, my using food as comfort does not compare to my old habit of using heroin for comfort. Totally different ballgames. I would have done, and had, done ANYTHING for heroin. Stole, sold my body, used all of my money, etc. NOTHING else mattered, the only thing you think about is getting high. I really don't know anyone that has neglected their family, became a prostitute, became homeless, stole in order to get a fix of cake. Do I use food in some of the same ways that I used heroin-maybe. But even if I do it is not nearly at the same level of addiction, not even close.0
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registerednurse2014 wrote: »Just from personal experience, my using food as comfort does not compare to my old habit of using heroin for comfort. Totally different ballgames. I would have done, and had, done ANYTHING for heroin. Stole, sold my body, used all of my money, etc. NOTHING else mattered, the only thing you think about is getting high. I really don't know anyone that has neglected their family, became a prostitute, became homeless, stole in order to get a fix of cake. Do I use food in some of the same ways that I used heroin-maybe. But even if I do it is not nearly at the same level of addiction, not even close.
That right there was and has always been my point.
I have never said drugs and/or alcohol are not used in the same way but to call it an addiction eh...
However I had an interesting convo with my hubby last night...his conclusion...
anything people do repeatedly for the sheer pleasure of it that is destructive in some way is (in his opinion) an addiction...either physical ie drugs or behavioural ie sex, food, video games.....but it does not negate the need for personal responsibility to quit said behaviour...
I think that right there also speaks volumes...if you use food as comfort, get obese then claim you can't stop (cause you are addicted) so you can lose weight and not die of compications from it (heart disease etc) you are negating your personal responsibitly for your behaviour and choices....0 -
registerednurse2014 wrote: »Just from personal experience, my using food as comfort does not compare to my old habit of using heroin for comfort. Totally different ballgames. I would have done, and had, done ANYTHING for heroin. Stole, sold my body, used all of my money, etc. NOTHING else mattered, the only thing you think about is getting high. I really don't know anyone that has neglected their family, became a prostitute, became homeless, stole in order to get a fix of cake. Do I use food in some of the same ways that I used heroin-maybe. But even if I do it is not nearly at the same level of addiction, not even close.
That right there was and has always been my point.
I have never said drugs and/or alcohol are not used in the same way but to call it an addiction eh...
However I had an interesting convo with my hubby last night...his conclusion...
anything people do repeatedly for the sheer pleasure of it that is destructive in some way is (in his opinion) an addiction...either physical ie drugs or behavioural ie sex, food, video games.....but it does not negate the need for personal responsibility to quit said behaviour...
I think that right there also speaks volumes...if you use food as comfort, get obese then claim you can't stop (cause you are addicted) so you can lose weight and not die of compications from it (heart disease etc) you are negating your personal responsibitly for your behaviour and choices....
So all the health organizations, journals and the like that recognize psychological addictions are just misinformed? I raised this a bit earlier in the thread, but this argument largely comes down to semantics, but the problem with debating semantics is that the definition of the term addiction is not clear. Depending on how you define addiction and which organization/doctor you ask, an eating disorder may or may not be considered an addiction.
The same for compulsive gambling. Do people really go up to gamblers whose "addiction" has cost them their job/home/marriage/etc. and say "addiction eh... I dunno about that buddy?" Does it even matter if one addiction or even compulsion is more destructive than the other? Outside of how a given disorder needs to be treated and the health organizations debating the definition of the term "addiction," who even cares whether something is an "addiction" or not?
I'm with you though on personality responsibility, and people shouldn't play the victim and blame the food companies for their situation. But then again, I don't personally have a lot of sympathy for people with other self-inflicted addictions either, and I'd chalk that up to personal responsibility as well.0 -
registerednurse2014 wrote: »Just from personal experience, my using food as comfort does not compare to my old habit of using heroin for comfort. Totally different ballgames. I would have done, and had, done ANYTHING for heroin. Stole, sold my body, used all of my money, etc. NOTHING else mattered, the only thing you think about is getting high. I really don't know anyone that has neglected their family, became a prostitute, became homeless, stole in order to get a fix of cake. Do I use food in some of the same ways that I used heroin-maybe. But even if I do it is not nearly at the same level of addiction, not even close.
That right there was and has always been my point.
I have never said drugs and/or alcohol are not used in the same way but to call it an addiction eh...
However I had an interesting convo with my hubby last night...his conclusion...
anything people do repeatedly for the sheer pleasure of it that is destructive in some way is (in his opinion) an addiction...either physical ie drugs or behavioural ie sex, food, video games.....but it does not negate the need for personal responsibility to quit said behaviour...
I think that right there also speaks volumes...if you use food as comfort, get obese then claim you can't stop (cause you are addicted) so you can lose weight and not die of compications from it (heart disease etc) you are negating your personal responsibitly for your behaviour and choices....
I would agree with your husband on the points he made.
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Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...0
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Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
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Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to drugs never mean they are addicted to all drugs. Usually they are "addicted" to heroin or cocaine. If they were truly addicted to drugs, when they had a craving then a Tylenol would suffice just as well as an eight ball. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high impact drugs that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.0 -
Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to drugs never mean they are addicted to all drugs. Usually they are "addicted" to heroin or cocaine. If they were truly addicted to drugs, when they had a craving then a Tylenol would suffice just as well as an eight ball. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high impact drugs that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
You wouldn't have people drinking gasoline, huffing paint doing whatever they can when they can't get theit drug of choice. That isn't the same as having splenda instead of sugar0 -
Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to drugs never mean they are addicted to all drugs. Usually they are "addicted" to heroin or cocaine. If they were truly addicted to drugs, when they had a craving then a Tylenol would suffice just as well as an eight ball. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high impact drugs that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
You wouldn't have people drinking gasoline, huffing paint doing whatever they can when they can't get theit drug of choice. That isn't the same as having splenda instead of sugar
I wouldn't disagree with that, but I would say that someone who says they're addicted to cake isn't going to pass up brownies or ice cream when they can't get their favorite either.
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Types of addictions, may, or may not be more harmful, depending on your point of view and the long term affects. However, it does not necessarily, make one addiction better than the other, or worse, for that matter.
Stands to reason though, you can survive without using other addictions, if you can end the habit. Not so with food. Easier, or harder, who is to say. To the individual their addiction is worse to them.
I totally take personal responsibility for my issues with food. No one else is to blame for my "abusing" food.0 -
Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to drugs never mean they are addicted to all drugs. Usually they are "addicted" to heroin or cocaine. If they were truly addicted to drugs, when they had a craving then a Tylenol would suffice just as well as an eight ball. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high impact drugs that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
You wouldn't have people drinking gasoline, huffing paint doing whatever they can when they can't get theit drug of choice. That isn't the same as having splenda instead of sugar
I wouldn't disagree with that, but I would say that someone who says they're addicted to cake isn't going to pass up brownies or ice cream when they can't get their favorite either.
not passing something up =/= doing whatever they can
If someone says they are addicted to sugar, I highly doubt they will grab a spoon, crack open the sugar jar and go to town. Or dig through the trash looking for half-eaten candy bars.
A drug addict will get a fix in whatever form of the drug is available. Safe or no.0 -
snowflake930 wrote: »Types of addictions, may, or may not be more harmful, depending on your point of view and the long term affects. However, it does not necessarily, make one addiction better than the other, or worse, for that matter.
Stands to reason though, you can survive without using other addictions, if you can end the habit. Not so with food. Easier, or harder, who is to say. To the individual their addiction is worse to them.
I totally take personal responsibility for my issues with food. No one else is to blame for my "abusing" food.
You can also survive without eating whatever food it is you are 'addicted' to.0 -
If someone says they are addicted to sugar, I highly doubt they will grab a spoon, crack open the sugar jar and go to town. Or dig through the trash looking for half-eaten candy bars.Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to drugs never mean they are addicted to all drugs. Usually they are "addicted" to heroin or cocaine. If they were truly addicted to drugs, when they had a craving then a Tylenol would suffice just as well as an eight ball. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high impact drugs that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
You wouldn't have people drinking gasoline, huffing paint doing whatever they can when they can't get theit drug of choice. That isn't the same as having splenda instead of sugar
I wouldn't disagree with that, but I would say that someone who says they're addicted to cake isn't going to pass up brownies or ice cream when they can't get their favorite either.
Actually, that isn't true. There are people who have to pour dish soap (among other things) onto the food they put into the trash otherwise they will dig through and eat it later.
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Do people really go up to gamblers whose "addiction" has cost them their job/home/marriage/etc. and say "addiction eh... I dunno about that buddy?" Does it even matter if one addiction or even compulsion is more destructive than the other? Outside of how a given disorder needs to be treated and the health organizations debating the definition of the term "addiction," who even cares whether something is an "addiction" or not?
Right. Medical professionals recognize psychological "addictions" like gambling, sex, internet, and overeating only because it's helpful for treatment. There has never been any claim that these are physical addictions. Physical addictions require more extensive treatments because the physical withdrawal has to be treated at the same time as the emotional dependency. However, the emotional dependency is a significant factor in the behavior - otherwise there would be, for instance, a 100% success rate with treatments like nicotine gum/patches and methadone.
Overeaters do not, in my opinion, get enough support for their psychological dependencies. Medical professionals often wave them off with a comment like "diet and exercise" without helping the person address the root causes of the problem. Psychological dependence on overeating and/or addictive responses to certain foods is just one possible contributing factor to obesity (there are hundreds of others, of course). Weight Watchers is basically MFP + 12-step, and has one of the highest success rates of any diet plan.
I do find it ironic that many people here say "no one ever died/lost their kids/lost their jobs from eating a cupcake", when we as a country have decided to replace the words "skinny" with "healthy" and "fat" with "unhealthy", and many people wrongly believe that every overweight person will imminently die from diabetes or heart disease. Either we recognize that psychological dependence on overeating is worthy of health care resources, or we continue to ignore the causes of overeating and only treat the symptoms.0 -
Except for the fact that you can't avoid food unless you want to starve to death... but you can avoid alcohol...
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to food never mean that they are addicted to all food. Usually they say they are "addicted" to cake or fried chicken. If they were truly addicted to food, when they had a craving then a carrot stick would suffice just as well as a Hershey bar. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high calorie foods that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
This is just a silly argument to me. People who say they are addicted to drugs never mean they are addicted to all drugs. Usually they are "addicted" to heroin or cocaine. If they were truly addicted to drugs, when they had a craving then a Tylenol would suffice just as well as an eight ball. But that's never the case, is it? It's always with the high impact drugs that people cry "addiction." I call shenanigans.
First of all, people don't generally accept being a drug addict as a reason why the person is incapable of stopping. It makes it hard, but it's generally why it's essential to stop. The idea that one simply cannot help it is one that seems to be dragged out only in connection with eating.
Second, the argument is that food is similar to heroin or some kind of drug--clearly no one says if you have a problem with food go take a Tylenol. So why could heroin be substituted for by a Tylenol? The point is that if someone claims to be addicted to all food and unable to avoid it, one is saying that the "high" in question results from the psychological or emotional or physical connection to food.
A better analogy would be to say that "people who say they are alcoholics never mean they are addicted to all booze." Except, well, yes, that's precisely what they mean. You never hear anyone arguing that they are addicted to pinot noir, but are just fine drinking syrah or even gin. That's silly, and that's why it's similarly silly for someone to claim to be "addicted" to pizza or candy but just fine with fruit.
This is also why I buy the addiction model for people who genuinely are compulsive overeaters. The vast majority of people who claim to be "addicted" to food don't actually claim to be triggered by everything, though, and that's why the "it's so impossible, I have to eat" thing is without merit.
Plus, if it's so widespread, presumably all the rest of us who were overweight should get credit for doing this allegedly impossible thing, while still eating on a regular basis.0 -
digginDeep wrote: »I forget what the original question by the OP was- so either just break up, yes log it as water, or it might be paleo and it might not be but who cares? Just eat it IIFYM.
Heh. Best answer.
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Plus, if it's so widespread, presumably all the rest of us who were overweight should get credit for doing this allegedly impossible thing, while still eating on a regular basis.
Not necessarily. You can occasionally get drunk without being considered an alcoholic. That's harder to do with more addictive substances and I don't think anyone would recommend you try being a heroin junkie only on the weekends, but periodic overconsumption doesn't necessarily indicate addiction.0 -
If someone says they are addicted to sugar, I highly doubt they will grab a spoon, crack open the sugar jar and go to town.
youd be surprised tho. Not supporting either side of the argument here but I have lived with people who do that. Or who pour milk into a mug filled with white sugar and let it sit there and dissolve and then stir once and glug it
GAG!!!!
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Plus, if it's so widespread, presumably all the rest of us who were overweight should get credit for doing this allegedly impossible thing, while still eating on a regular basis.
Not necessarily. You can occasionally get drunk without being considered an alcoholic. That's harder to do with more addictive substances and I don't think anyone would recommend you try being a heroin junkie only on the weekends, but periodic overconsumption doesn't necessarily indicate addiction.
Yes, that's been my point throughout, but the pro addiction crowd here seems to think that liking to eat cookies makes you akin to a heroin addict.
Like I've said several times, I do think there are some people--though a comparatively few--who suffer from compulsive overeating of a type that is analogous to addiction. That does not mean that run of the mill overeating makes you an addict or that people who overeat sweet things or bread or insert your trigger food of choice are overcoming something harder than a drug addiction.
Also, sugar isn't claimed to be like alcohol (where some people become addicted, but most do not). It's supposed to be "more addictive than cocaine" or, typically, heroin or crack--in other words, a purely physical reaction that humans in general (not to mention rats!) have. Thus, as we are all humans, we are all supposed to be suffering from sugar addiction and the allegedly related withdrawal symptoms.0 -
I'm not sure if physical addiction is an accurate way to describe compulsive eating but I am sure arguing it can't be a physical addiction because people don't kill, die, prostitute themselves etc for a cupcake is a really poor argument.0
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