Getting discouraged. Lean bulk or cut? What should I do?
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LolBroScience wrote: »Feeling a little down today, and discouraged if I will ever get to where I want to be.
I've worked hard (notice I said "hard" but not "smart") for three years, yet I feel like I have yielded little to no result. I went to the gym today. Felt pretty standard/fairly easy (although I can feel things like my bench really begin to get more difficult). I have stuck with the program, and while it hasn't been that long, am feeling ancy. I just use this forum as a way to talk myself off a bridge I suppose, and hopefully hear from you all about your stories.
I am currently eating around 3300 calories a day, trying to hit needed fat/protein, and fill the rest in with whatever else. I worry that if I continue to eat at my maintenance (or a little below) I will see no size changes, and my body will stay the same.
Even with my great deload, dropping all my weights to 65-70% of my 1 rpm, is my continuation of gradual lifting progression mean that I am progressing? If that makes sense. For example, my bench once was 180x5x3. However, I wasn't taking the bar low enough, (a little over half of how far down I should be going). Now, I can press 160x5x5, gradually increasing to this number over hte past few weeks. I am still below that old number, but I am pushing more and more each week. Would I find gains from that?
I guess I still am confused on how All this works. Again, sorry for the rant. I just want to feel like my care and dedication is/will take me somewhere. I feel so hopeless tonight.
You can still increase strength and also cause hypertrophy at maintenance calorie (although far less optimal as opposed to being in a caloric surplus). However, if you feel you are ready, start slowly increasing you calories over time. Add in 100 calories, see how you react and stay at that level. When you hold weight for a few weeks, increase again etc.
As for the lifting... you are increasing volume over time which yields gains.
180x5x3 = 2700 lbs
160x5x5 = 4000 lbs
You're going to reach a point where you will be able to hit 180x5x5 and so on so forth.
You don't need to always add weight to the bar in order to keep progressively overloading. You can increase reps, sets, weight etc. It all equates to more total volume and that's ultimately what you are after. Now, what I just said isn't a go ahead to deviate from the current program.
You also mentioned you're now moving through the full range of motion more efficiently.
I just find it so hard to measure things so small as "100 calories" because of the fact that strength/weight gain aren't linear. So I go a few weeks uncertain if I made the right decision adding on 100 calories more, or whatever. Maybe I'm overthinking it.
I'm assuming a "positive reaction" to adding the 100 cal would be continued strength? It's just hard when you can't see immediate results, and after 3 years of guessing wrong, I'm so scared I'll continue down the wrong path. Mentally I'm really struggling. The only thing holding me together is the definitivness of the program. I won't deviate!
Because I deloaded so much, does that mean I will have to wait that much longer to get any size results? (Or, at least until I'm back past my old #s)?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Feeling a little down today, and discouraged if I will ever get to where I want to be.
I've worked hard (notice I said "hard" but not "smart") for three years, yet I feel like I have yielded little to no result. I went to the gym today. Felt pretty standard/fairly easy (although I can feel things like my bench really begin to get more difficult). I have stuck with the program, and while it hasn't been that long, am feeling ancy. I just use this forum as a way to talk myself off a bridge I suppose, and hopefully hear from you all about your stories.
I am currently eating around 3300 calories a day, trying to hit needed fat/protein, and fill the rest in with whatever else. I worry that if I continue to eat at my maintenance (or a little below) I will see no size changes, and my body will stay the same.
Even with my great deload, dropping all my weights to 65-70% of my 1 rpm, is my continuation of gradual lifting progression mean that I am progressing? If that makes sense. For example, my bench once was 180x5x3. However, I wasn't taking the bar low enough, (a little over half of how far down I should be going). Now, I can press 160x5x5, gradually increasing to this number over hte past few weeks. I am still below that old number, but I am pushing more and more each week. Would I find gains from that?
I guess I still am confused on how All this works. Again, sorry for the rant. I just want to feel like my care and dedication is/will take me somewhere. I feel so hopeless tonight.
You can still increase strength and also cause hypertrophy at maintenance calorie (although far less optimal as opposed to being in a caloric surplus). However, if you feel you are ready, start slowly increasing you calories over time. Add in 100 calories, see how you react and stay at that level. When you hold weight for a few weeks, increase again etc.
As for the lifting... you are increasing volume over time which yields gains.
180x5x3 = 2700 lbs
160x5x5 = 4000 lbs
You're going to reach a point where you will be able to hit 180x5x5 and so on so forth.
You don't need to always add weight to the bar in order to keep progressively overloading. You can increase reps, sets, weight etc. It all equates to more total volume and that's ultimately what you are after. Now, what I just said isn't a go ahead to deviate from the current program.
You also mentioned you're now moving through the full range of motion more efficiently.
I just find it so hard to measure things so small as "100 calories" because of the fact that strength/weight gain aren't linear. So I go a few weeks uncertain if I made the right decision adding on 100 calories more, or whatever. Maybe I'm overthinking it.
I'm assuming a "positive reaction" to adding the 100 cal would be continued strength? It's just hard when you can't see immediate results, and after 3 years of guessing wrong, I'm so scared I'll continue down the wrong path. Mentally I'm really struggling. The only thing holding me together is the definitivness of the program. I won't deviate!
Because I deloaded so much, does that mean I will have to wait that much longer to get any size results? (Or, at least until I'm back past my old #s)?
You're right they aren't linear. What is there to over think though? If you've added in 100 calories and haven't gained any weight over a period of a few weeks that means you need to increase it more. Only increase when you stagnate for a little while if you're going to add calories in larger blocks. Otherwise, you can make weekly increases on a smaller scale - 1g fat, 2g carbs per week etc and walk it up over time. It will ultimately end up being the same thing though in the end.
You said yourself your strength continues to increase despite increasing calories, so what do you think? The extra calories will help with recovery and adding size over a period of time. Strength will continue to increase as long as you are sticking to the progression scheme of the program. The extra calories will make it easier as the weight continues to increase since you'll have more energy.
Stop worrying about small details and focus on improving from where you are now. It doesn't matter where you were.0 -
Hey. It's only been a month since you posted the original thread - compare that to your 3 yrs of faffing about, it's nothing.
Sounds like you're progressing well. Like bro says, if you want the muscle gains just start gradually increasing till you've got a nice wee surplus going.
A month's way to soon to judge, just stick to your programme and keep on keeping on
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So I have skimmed.
My suggest is get over your self.
Set a goal.
Pick a path.
Follow the path with unwavering commitment.
Do not deviate- you're brain will try to convince you otherwise- but push forward. and trust the process... but you gotta get over yourself and out of your own dayum way.0 -
So I have skimmed.
My suggest is get over your self.
Set a goal.
Pick a path.
Follow the path with unwavering commitment.
Do not deviate- you're brain will try to convince you otherwise- but push forward. and trust the process... but you gotta get over yourself and out of your own dayum way.
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking!
Just go for it dude, eat enough to gain weight and push yourself to get stronger and you will get results!
Just give the process some time, you might end up bulking / cutting a couple of times over 1-2 years before you reach your goals.0 -
Well today wasn't the best day. I woke up a little tired but I had to go to the gym this AM because I missed yesterday, which was supposed to be my next workout day, and I knew I couldn't go tonight.
So I progressed (by the skin of my teeth I feel) on my squat, but bench I progressed up until the last set, where I failed at 4 reps instead of 5 on the last set. This was at 165 lbs. I'm pretty disappointment in myself, as this isn't even the number I was at before I deloaded. (My max was 180x5x1 of a partial rom).
The rest of my lifts went OK- bent over row is progressing, however that is still way under my old #. I knocked my shrugs down quite a bit because I was paranoid I wasn't getting a full rom. I will probably try to work up from there.
I had to deload my tri press downs and Bicep curls last week, and I still can't hit the new numbers. I'm not sure where to go with these. They are such a small lift that it's going to be really hard to progress 5lbs. Do you just keep deloading/work up deload/work up over and over? I can't find anywhere on the icf rules that states this.
I think I need to begin eating more. How long does it take to notice a good amount of recovery with an added surplus of calories? Like if I bump my cals up by 200 or so, when will I see any benefit and strength gains from the extra fuel?
It's frustrating I can't even bench my own body weight yet I'm already failing. Why can't I be stronger like everyone else, and progress like everyone else? Feeling down once again. Thanks for following the rant and any feedback.0 -
Ok, if I read the above correctly, you're bummed because you feel like you're progressing less than previously. However, failing on rep 4 of your last set at 165 shows far more strength than a max of 180 for 1x5 of partial range of motion. Quarter squats and half squats are really easy to do, and so a lot of people think they can move around a lot of weight. But, then they try full range of motion, and they can't move crap.Well today wasn't the best day. I woke up a little tired but I had to go to the gym this AM because I missed yesterday, which was supposed to be my next workout day, and I knew I couldn't go tonight.
So I progressed (by the skin of my teeth I feel) on my squat, but bench I progressed up until the last set, where I failed at 4 reps instead of 5 on the last set. This was at 165 lbs. I'm pretty disappointment in myself, as this isn't even the number I was at before I deloaded. (My max was 180x5x1 of a partial rom).
The rest of my lifts went OK- bent over row is progressing, however that is still way under my old #. I knocked my shrugs down quite a bit because I was paranoid I wasn't getting a full rom. I will probably try to work up from there.
I had to deload my tri press downs and Bicep curls last week, and I still can't hit the new numbers. I'm not sure where to go with these. They are such a small lift that it's going to be really hard to progress 5lbs. Do you just keep deloading/work up deload/work up over and over? I can't find anywhere on the icf rules that states this.
I think I need to begin eating more. How long does it take to notice a good amount of recovery with an added surplus of calories? Like if I bump my cals up by 200 or so, when will I see any benefit and strength gains from the extra fuel?
It's frustrating I can't even bench my own body weight yet I'm already failing. Why can't I be stronger like everyone else, and progress like everyone else? Feeling down once again. Thanks for following the rant and any feedback.
Basically, you're doing great; keep it up. Failures are part of the program, and you just need to follow the prescribed repetitions/deload procedures for when you encounter failures. As for when 5lb increases are too high, they do have fractional weights for lifts that involve the olympic bar. I'm not sure about the machines for things like the tricep pulls. Someone with more experience can probably give you better advice there.
Personally, I've been increasing reps at x weight for cable machines, so I'll do 6, 8, then 10, and then jump the weight up to the next level and go back to 6 reps. Works well for my cable rows because it's in 15lb increments. But, that's not how your program is written, so again, maybe someone with more experience can chime in.0 -
It may have already been said, but patience is key. I can say from personal experience that I know what it's like to be making slower than expected progression, but I trust that I will eventually get to where I want.It's frustrating I can't even bench my own body weight yet I'm already failing. Why can't I be stronger like everyone else, and progress like everyone else? Feeling down once again. Thanks for following the rant and any feedback.
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Ok, if I read the above correctly, you're bummed because you feel like you're progressing less than previously. However, failing on rep 4 of your last set at 165 shows far more strength than a max of 180 for 1x5 of partial range of motion. Quarter squats and half squats are really easy to do, and so a lot of people think they can move around a lot of weight. But, then they try full range of motion, and they can't move crap.Well today wasn't the best day. I woke up a little tired but I had to go to the gym this AM because I missed yesterday, which was supposed to be my next workout day, and I knew I couldn't go tonight.
So I progressed (by the skin of my teeth I feel) on my squat, but bench I progressed up until the last set, where I failed at 4 reps instead of 5 on the last set. This was at 165 lbs. I'm pretty disappointment in myself, as this isn't even the number I was at before I deloaded. (My max was 180x5x1 of a partial rom).
The rest of my lifts went OK- bent over row is progressing, however that is still way under my old #. I knocked my shrugs down quite a bit because I was paranoid I wasn't getting a full rom. I will probably try to work up from there.
I had to deload my tri press downs and Bicep curls last week, and I still can't hit the new numbers. I'm not sure where to go with these. They are such a small lift that it's going to be really hard to progress 5lbs. Do you just keep deloading/work up deload/work up over and over? I can't find anywhere on the icf rules that states this.
I think I need to begin eating more. How long does it take to notice a good amount of recovery with an added surplus of calories? Like if I bump my cals up by 200 or so, when will I see any benefit and strength gains from the extra fuel?
It's frustrating I can't even bench my own body weight yet I'm already failing. Why can't I be stronger like everyone else, and progress like everyone else? Feeling down once again. Thanks for following the rant and any feedback.
Basically, you're doing great; keep it up. Failures are part of the program, and you just need to follow the prescribed repetitions/deload procedures for when you encounter failures. As for when 5lb increases are too high, they do have fractional weights for lifts that involve the olympic bar. I'm not sure about the machines for things like the tricep pulls. Someone with more experience can probably give you better advice there.
Personally, I've been increasing reps at x weight for cable machines, so I'll do 6, 8, then 10, and then jump the weight up to the next level and go back to 6 reps. Works well for my cable rows because it's in 15lb increments. But, that's not how your program is written, so again, maybe someone with more experience can chime in.
Yup. I already explained earlier the 5x5x165 is more VOLUME than the 1x5x180. Don't do this, but I bet if you were to skip over that 5x5x165 and go straight to one set of 5 reps, you'd be able to manage 5 for 185 or 190, maybe more through a full range of motion.0 -
I would highly encourage you to not compare yourself to "everyone else".
You just have no idea who they are- where they have come from- and what they have been doing- or if they are using anything.
We are not everyone else.
I was a successful athlete all my life- I have been one and trained as one- and I moved to a power lifting gym and I'm reasonably strong compared to most gyms... but compared to this gym- I'm on the light end. Occasionally it's disheartening- but the reality- it does me no good to compare to anyone else- all it does is rob me of my satisfactions from my hard work- and it de-values the hard work I have legitimately put in.
Successful people aren't successful because they were really good at ONE thing.
They are successful because they kept at it - no matter what set backs they had- and trust- EVERYONE has had set backs- regardless of if you can see it or not.0 -
I think at this point you need to seek out a personal trainer that will make you stay on schedule.0
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JeffseekingV wrote: »I think at this point you need to seek out a personal trainer that will make you stay on schedule.
Not sure what you mean on schedule?0 -
Sounds like you are doing fine. 200 calories will not show a huge difference from week to week but you should notice the change after a month or so. It's a slow, clean bulking surplus that allows you to take advantage of hypertrophy while minimizing fat gains.
Stick with the program and you will find that in a couple months you are moving much more weight than before and it won't really be that long.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »
Ok, if I read the above correctly, you're bummed because you feel like you're progressing less than previously. However, failing on rep 4 of your last set at 165 shows far more strength than a max of 180 for 1x5 of partial range of motion. Quarter squats and half squats are really easy to do, and so a lot of people think they can move around a lot of weight. But, then they try full range of motion, and they can't move crap.Well today wasn't the best day. I woke up a little tired but I had to go to the gym this AM because I missed yesterday, which was supposed to be my next workout day, and I knew I couldn't go tonight.
So I progressed (by the skin of my teeth I feel) on my squat, but bench I progressed up until the last set, where I failed at 4 reps instead of 5 on the last set. This was at 165 lbs. I'm pretty disappointment in myself, as this isn't even the number I was at before I deloaded. (My max was 180x5x1 of a partial rom).
The rest of my lifts went OK- bent over row is progressing, however that is still way under my old #. I knocked my shrugs down quite a bit because I was paranoid I wasn't getting a full rom. I will probably try to work up from there.
I had to deload my tri press downs and Bicep curls last week, and I still can't hit the new numbers. I'm not sure where to go with these. They are such a small lift that it's going to be really hard to progress 5lbs. Do you just keep deloading/work up deload/work up over and over? I can't find anywhere on the icf rules that states this.
I think I need to begin eating more. How long does it take to notice a good amount of recovery with an added surplus of calories? Like if I bump my cals up by 200 or so, when will I see any benefit and strength gains from the extra fuel?
It's frustrating I can't even bench my own body weight yet I'm already failing. Why can't I be stronger like everyone else, and progress like everyone else? Feeling down once again. Thanks for following the rant and any feedback.
Basically, you're doing great; keep it up. Failures are part of the program, and you just need to follow the prescribed repetitions/deload procedures for when you encounter failures. As for when 5lb increases are too high, they do have fractional weights for lifts that involve the olympic bar. I'm not sure about the machines for things like the tricep pulls. Someone with more experience can probably give you better advice there.
Personally, I've been increasing reps at x weight for cable machines, so I'll do 6, 8, then 10, and then jump the weight up to the next level and go back to 6 reps. Works well for my cable rows because it's in 15lb increments. But, that's not how your program is written, so again, maybe someone with more experience can chime in.
Yup. I already explained earlier the 5x5x165 is more VOLUME than the 1x5x180. Don't do this, but I bet if you were to skip over that 5x5x165 and go straight to one set of 5 reps, you'd be able to manage 5 for 185 or 190, maybe more through a full range of motion.
To make it easier for VA:
Last max you lifted 1x5 at 180, which is 900lbs.
Today you lifted 4x5, 1x4 at 165, which is 3960lbs.
Do you see any progress there?! :laugh:0 -
I didn't read all the whining and moaning about how you can't lift things as heavy as other people can lift. But you are super sexy. Except for the whining and moaning.
Some guys never really get bulky. Fortunately, some women like their men slim and toned but not all jacked up.0 -
I didn't read all the whining and moaning about how you can't lift things as heavy as other people can lift. But you are super sexy. Except for the whining and moaning.
Some guys never really get bulky. Fortunately, some women like their men slim and toned but not all jacked up.
uh....k.....?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »
Ok, if I read the above correctly, you're bummed because you feel like you're progressing less than previously. However, failing on rep 4 of your last set at 165 shows far more strength than a max of 180 for 1x5 of partial range of motion. Quarter squats and half squats are really easy to do, and so a lot of people think they can move around a lot of weight. But, then they try full range of motion, and they can't move crap.Well today wasn't the best day. I woke up a little tired but I had to go to the gym this AM because I missed yesterday, which was supposed to be my next workout day, and I knew I couldn't go tonight.
So I progressed (by the skin of my teeth I feel) on my squat, but bench I progressed up until the last set, where I failed at 4 reps instead of 5 on the last set. This was at 165 lbs. I'm pretty disappointment in myself, as this isn't even the number I was at before I deloaded. (My max was 180x5x1 of a partial rom).
The rest of my lifts went OK- bent over row is progressing, however that is still way under my old #. I knocked my shrugs down quite a bit because I was paranoid I wasn't getting a full rom. I will probably try to work up from there.
I had to deload my tri press downs and Bicep curls last week, and I still can't hit the new numbers. I'm not sure where to go with these. They are such a small lift that it's going to be really hard to progress 5lbs. Do you just keep deloading/work up deload/work up over and over? I can't find anywhere on the icf rules that states this.
I think I need to begin eating more. How long does it take to notice a good amount of recovery with an added surplus of calories? Like if I bump my cals up by 200 or so, when will I see any benefit and strength gains from the extra fuel?
It's frustrating I can't even bench my own body weight yet I'm already failing. Why can't I be stronger like everyone else, and progress like everyone else? Feeling down once again. Thanks for following the rant and any feedback.
Basically, you're doing great; keep it up. Failures are part of the program, and you just need to follow the prescribed repetitions/deload procedures for when you encounter failures. As for when 5lb increases are too high, they do have fractional weights for lifts that involve the olympic bar. I'm not sure about the machines for things like the tricep pulls. Someone with more experience can probably give you better advice there.
Personally, I've been increasing reps at x weight for cable machines, so I'll do 6, 8, then 10, and then jump the weight up to the next level and go back to 6 reps. Works well for my cable rows because it's in 15lb increments. But, that's not how your program is written, so again, maybe someone with more experience can chime in.
Yup. I already explained earlier the 5x5x165 is more VOLUME than the 1x5x180. Don't do this, but I bet if you were to skip over that 5x5x165 and go straight to one set of 5 reps, you'd be able to manage 5 for 185 or 190, maybe more through a full range of motion.
To make it easier for VA:
Last max you lifted 1x5 at 180, which is 900lbs.
Today you lifted 4x5, 1x4 at 165, which is 3960lbs.
Do you see any progress there?! :laugh:
Or to put it another way your one rep max has gone up at least 5 pounds but more likely 10 to 15 since you've probably got almost 2 in the tank on your first set.0 -
Double0
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I didn't read all the whining and moaning about how you can't lift things as heavy as other people can lift. But you are super sexy. Except for the whining and moaning.
Some guys never really get bulky. Fortunately, some women like their men slim and toned but not all jacked up.
I never expect to be the size of a 250+ lb body builder at 8% bf.
I do, however, hope that I can achieve to be 190-200 lbs at 10-12% bf eventually. At 6'2, I don't want to be stuck with 14.5" arms forever.
I don't think that's too ambitious of a Long term goal?0 -
I didn't read all the whining and moaning about how you can't lift things as heavy as other people can lift. But you are super sexy. Except for the whining and moaning.
Some guys never really get bulky. Fortunately, some women like their men slim and toned but not all jacked up.
People who never get really bulky aren't trying to get bulky.
If you're trying to get bigger- and you aren't- that means you aren't eating enough.
This has nothing to do with what someone else wants/tastes/desires or pleasing someone else aesthetically- it's about goals and either doing what you need to to meet them- or not.0
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