Getting discouraged. Lean bulk or cut? What should I do?
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I think you are ready to bulk since I don't see what you need to cut further for. Objectively I would put you around the 10 to 12% range. If you cut more you will become more defined and vascular but I doubt you will like the way you look if you think you are too thin now.
Time to put on some beef and keep working your weight program for size and strength.
ETA note, I agree with Jeff not to change course on your weight program but I don't think you need to cut any more.
You'd really peg me as low as 10-12%? I was thinking I was still at least 14%.
I am 100% going to stick with the program- that's not even a question. My main question revolves around how much I should be eating, and what my goal should be involving adding/losing weight. I understand the idea of maintenance, but I worry that if I eat "whatever" I really won't get anywhere since nutrition is a big part of the process
I think bro is in the 10-12% range. So I guess you're in the 14-16% range. But who gives a *kitten*? You ain't fat. I'm at 18-20% so think about how I feel. LOL0 -
I'm probably 16-17% right now as I'm at the tailor end of my bulk. It's just deceiving since I have decent fat distribution. But as you said... doesn't really matter what the number is so much as how you look & feel.0
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I think you are ready to bulk since I don't see what you need to cut further for. Objectively I would put you around the 10 to 12% range. If you cut more you will become more defined and vascular but I doubt you will like the way you look if you think you are too thin now.
Time to put on some beef and keep working your weight program for size and strength.
ETA note, I agree with Jeff not to change course on your weight program but I don't think you need to cut any more.
OP, I'm with these two. Keep cutting, start bulking, whatever. Just keep doing SOMETHING. It's only been a week. Things don't change in a week.
Yup. If you're going to be unhappy cutting, try bulking. But, you will likely be unhappy with anything you do at this point. You've been stagnating for so long, you just want to see results. Nothing will happen instantly. Pick something and stick with it. For a long period of time. It's winter, and so a lot of people consider it a good time to bulk. But someone (was it BroScience?) has been bulking for over a year. The process of bulking and cutting takes a very long time, so you need to be willing to commit some time to it.
A lot of people are scared of bulking (it's easy for me to say because I've only been eating at a deficit), so they end the bulk early. They end up shooting themselves in the foot because they can't dedicate the time to bulk because their mind messes with them. From what I've heard, people end up in an endless cycle where they bulk for too short a time and don't put on mass and then cut, but get frustrated because they are too small. It seems like where you have been for the past three years.
At some point, you're going to have to accept where you are and realize you need to work. And that work will take time. Commit to it, and mentally get behind what you need to do to obtain your goals. Consistency will be the key.
^^this.
OP: If you decide to bulk, reverse up over a couple of weeks and take a couple more to try to find maintenance, then add about 250 - 350 calories a day to lean bulk - this will give you time to get some size gains in without gaining too much fat. Monitor your weight - you may find you will need to up your calories a bit more as maintenance is not static. Above all, as has been mentioned, commit to it and realize you will not see noticeable changes over short periods of time.
LolBroScience has had a really successful bulk imo - pay attention to him - he is giving good advice.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I think you are ready to bulk since I don't see what you need to cut further for. Objectively I would put you around the 10 to 12% range. If you cut more you will become more defined and vascular but I doubt you will like the way you look if you think you are too thin now.
Time to put on some beef and keep working your weight program for size and strength.
ETA note, I agree with Jeff not to change course on your weight program but I don't think you need to cut any more.
OP, I'm with these two. Keep cutting, start bulking, whatever. Just keep doing SOMETHING. It's only been a week. Things don't change in a week.
Yup. If you're going to be unhappy cutting, try bulking. But, you will likely be unhappy with anything you do at this point. You've been stagnating for so long, you just want to see results. Nothing will happen instantly. Pick something and stick with it. For a long period of time. It's winter, and so a lot of people consider it a good time to bulk. But someone (was it BroScience?) has been bulking for over a year. The process of bulking and cutting takes a very long time, so you need to be willing to commit some time to it.
A lot of people are scared of bulking (it's easy for me to say because I've only been eating at a deficit), so they end the bulk early. They end up shooting themselves in the foot because they can't dedicate the time to bulk because their mind messes with them. From what I've heard, people end up in an endless cycle where they bulk for too short a time and don't put on mass and then cut, but get frustrated because they are too small. It seems like where you have been for the past three years.
At some point, you're going to have to accept where you are and realize you need to work. And that work will take time. Commit to it, and mentally get behind what you need to do to obtain your goals. Consistency will be the key.
^^this.
OP: If you decide to bulk, reverse up over a couple of weeks and take a couple more to try to find maintenance, then add about 250 - 350 calories a day to lean bulk - this will give you time to get some size gains in without gaining too much fat. Monitor your weight - you may find you will need to up your calories a bit more as maintenance is not static. Above all, as has been mentioned, commit to it and realize you will not see noticeable changes over short periods of time.
LolBroScience has had a really successful bulk imo - pay attention to him - he is giving good advice.
I agree. You all have given me great advice. At this point now, I don't want to give up cutting if you think, down the line, I would benefit from a little more fat loss. At this point, I don't think I will look great cut up. However, right now it's more of a means to get to a low bf% so I can bulk a little easier.
I don't want to hop back and forth between cutting and bulking. I have been "cutting" since September 1st. I have lost roughly 10 lbs, which isn't a lot. But I wanted to take it slow so I didn't lose any LBM. Maybe i didn't really do it right.
I don't feel like my bf% changed all that much, as I still hold a lot of my fat in my lower abs and thighs. My shoulders have leaned out a bit, and I do notice a little more vascularity in my biceps and forearms, especially when I lift.
So, bottom line is that I dont mind going in either route right now and sticking to it. What I do mind is going the most beneficial direction.
Long term, I hope to have finished this cut by December 1st. After that, I would increasingly work my way up to a bulk and continue to bulk for 6 months, or until May. Then, spend those next 2-3 months cutting, then around August/September, repeat the process all over again.
Of course, this would all depend on how i looked and felt. BUT that's my ideal game plan for now. I just DON'T want to be stuck in the same place next year. I am so afraid of that, it's not even funny. I can't do another year stuck.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I think you are ready to bulk since I don't see what you need to cut further for. Objectively I would put you around the 10 to 12% range. If you cut more you will become more defined and vascular but I doubt you will like the way you look if you think you are too thin now.
Time to put on some beef and keep working your weight program for size and strength.
ETA note, I agree with Jeff not to change course on your weight program but I don't think you need to cut any more.
OP, I'm with these two. Keep cutting, start bulking, whatever. Just keep doing SOMETHING. It's only been a week. Things don't change in a week.
Yup. If you're going to be unhappy cutting, try bulking. But, you will likely be unhappy with anything you do at this point. You've been stagnating for so long, you just want to see results. Nothing will happen instantly. Pick something and stick with it. For a long period of time. It's winter, and so a lot of people consider it a good time to bulk. But someone (was it BroScience?) has been bulking for over a year. The process of bulking and cutting takes a very long time, so you need to be willing to commit some time to it.
A lot of people are scared of bulking (it's easy for me to say because I've only been eating at a deficit), so they end the bulk early. They end up shooting themselves in the foot because they can't dedicate the time to bulk because their mind messes with them. From what I've heard, people end up in an endless cycle where they bulk for too short a time and don't put on mass and then cut, but get frustrated because they are too small. It seems like where you have been for the past three years.
At some point, you're going to have to accept where you are and realize you need to work. And that work will take time. Commit to it, and mentally get behind what you need to do to obtain your goals. Consistency will be the key.
^^this.
OP: If you decide to bulk, reverse up over a couple of weeks and take a couple more to try to find maintenance, then add about 250 - 350 calories a day to lean bulk - this will give you time to get some size gains in without gaining too much fat. Monitor your weight - you may find you will need to up your calories a bit more as maintenance is not static. Above all, as has been mentioned, commit to it and realize you will not see noticeable changes over short periods of time.
LolBroScience has had a really successful bulk imo - pay attention to him - he is giving good advice.
I agree. You all have given me great advice. At this point now, I don't want to give up cutting if you think, down the line, I would benefit from a little more fat loss. At this point, I don't think I will look great cut up. However, right now it's more of a means to get to a low bf% so I can bulk a little easier.
I don't want to hop back and forth between cutting and bulking. I have been "cutting" since September 1st. I have lost roughly 10 lbs, which isn't a lot. But I wanted to take it slow so I didn't lose any LBM. Maybe i didn't really do it right.
I don't feel like my bf% changed all that much, as I still hold a lot of my fat in my lower abs and thighs. My shoulders have leaned out a bit, and I do notice a little more vascularity in my biceps and forearms, especially when I lift.
So, bottom line is that I dont mind going in either route right now and sticking to it. What I do mind is going the most beneficial direction.
Long term, I hope to have finished this cut by December 1st. After that, I would increasingly work my way up to a bulk and continue to bulk for 6 months, or until May. Then, spend those next 2-3 months cutting, then around August/September, repeat the process all over again.
Of course, this would all depend on how i looked and felt. BUT that's my ideal game plan for now. I just DON'T want to be stuck in the same place next year. I am so afraid of that, it's not even funny. I can't do another year stuck.
Honestly, you look leaner in the new pic than in the original pic. Definitely time to bulk. Just commit to it and do it.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I think you are ready to bulk since I don't see what you need to cut further for. Objectively I would put you around the 10 to 12% range. If you cut more you will become more defined and vascular but I doubt you will like the way you look if you think you are too thin now.
Time to put on some beef and keep working your weight program for size and strength.
ETA note, I agree with Jeff not to change course on your weight program but I don't think you need to cut any more.
OP, I'm with these two. Keep cutting, start bulking, whatever. Just keep doing SOMETHING. It's only been a week. Things don't change in a week.
Yup. If you're going to be unhappy cutting, try bulking. But, you will likely be unhappy with anything you do at this point. You've been stagnating for so long, you just want to see results. Nothing will happen instantly. Pick something and stick with it. For a long period of time. It's winter, and so a lot of people consider it a good time to bulk. But someone (was it BroScience?) has been bulking for over a year. The process of bulking and cutting takes a very long time, so you need to be willing to commit some time to it.
A lot of people are scared of bulking (it's easy for me to say because I've only been eating at a deficit), so they end the bulk early. They end up shooting themselves in the foot because they can't dedicate the time to bulk because their mind messes with them. From what I've heard, people end up in an endless cycle where they bulk for too short a time and don't put on mass and then cut, but get frustrated because they are too small. It seems like where you have been for the past three years.
At some point, you're going to have to accept where you are and realize you need to work. And that work will take time. Commit to it, and mentally get behind what you need to do to obtain your goals. Consistency will be the key.
^^this.
OP: If you decide to bulk, reverse up over a couple of weeks and take a couple more to try to find maintenance, then add about 250 - 350 calories a day to lean bulk - this will give you time to get some size gains in without gaining too much fat. Monitor your weight - you may find you will need to up your calories a bit more as maintenance is not static. Above all, as has been mentioned, commit to it and realize you will not see noticeable changes over short periods of time.
LolBroScience has had a really successful bulk imo - pay attention to him - he is giving good advice.
I agree. You all have given me great advice. At this point now, I don't want to give up cutting if you think, down the line, I would benefit from a little more fat loss. At this point, I don't think I will look great cut up. However, right now it's more of a means to get to a low bf% so I can bulk a little easier.
I don't want to hop back and forth between cutting and bulking. I have been "cutting" since September 1st. I have lost roughly 10 lbs, which isn't a lot. But I wanted to take it slow so I didn't lose any LBM. Maybe i didn't really do it right.
I don't feel like my bf% changed all that much, as I still hold a lot of my fat in my lower abs and thighs. My shoulders have leaned out a bit, and I do notice a little more vascularity in my biceps and forearms, especially when I lift.
So, bottom line is that I dont mind going in either route right now and sticking to it. What I do mind is going the most beneficial direction.
Long term, I hope to have finished this cut by December 1st. After that, I would increasingly work my way up to a bulk and continue to bulk for 6 months, or until May. Then, spend those next 2-3 months cutting, then around August/September, repeat the process all over again.
Of course, this would all depend on how i looked and felt. BUT that's my ideal game plan for now. I just DON'T want to be stuck in the same place next year. I am so afraid of that, it's not even funny. I can't do another year stuck.
Stick to that plan then. Cut for 2 more weeks, start reversing on 1st - try to hit maintenance around the holidays. Don't keep going and going though - you are where you can reverse now or reverse in a coupe of weeks - it will not make any appreciable difference to the long term results.0 -
beginning to up my caloric intake. Aiming for 3,200 / day now, rather than the 3,000 I was before.
I'm going to montior my weight gain, and strength gains, keep as-is for a few weeks, then most likely up from there.
Last night was a better workout. I am trying to focus on feeling it in my chest when I bench, and I noticed a differnece once I didn't grip the bar so hard, and allowed my chest to do some of the work rather than just my arms are forearms. (It was a subtle difference... has anyone else felt this?)
So I'm feeling a litlte more hopeful today. I'm worried of ballooning back to exactly where I started back in September, but hopefully more strength gains will = more mass as well. I don't *believe* i've hit my max when it comes to noob gains, so hopefully I will experience some of that as well.0 -
You should take videos of your bench squat and dead. Probably some improvements to be had in there that will move your lifts and improve your outlook0
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beginning to up my caloric intake. Aiming for 3,200 / day now, rather than the 3,000 I was before.
I'm going to montior my weight gain, and strength gains, keep as-is for a few weeks, then most likely up from there.
Last night was a better workout. I am trying to focus on feeling it in my chest when I bench, and I noticed a differnece once I didn't grip the bar so hard, and allowed my chest to do some of the work rather than just my arms are forearms. (It was a subtle difference... has anyone else felt this?)
So I'm feeling a litlte more hopeful today. I'm worried of ballooning back to exactly where I started back in September, but hopefully more strength gains will = more mass as well. I don't *believe* i've hit my max when it comes to noob gains, so hopefully I will experience some of that as well.
Are you still sticking to the program as written with the sets, reps, and progression scheme?0 -
You're definitely looking much leaner from your first pic
You might feel your progress is slow, but I honestly think that you've made a big difference in a short time - wish my progress was as good. You're winning at cutting!
On with the bulk, I say. Just bear in mind that if you want results, you're in it for the long haul. I'm just starting my second bulk on the 1st and I'll need a good few more bulk/cut cycles before I get where I want to be. Just keep taking photos and measurements to motivate yourself.
Stick with your programme and enjoy the extra calories - it's been good reading your updates.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »beginning to up my caloric intake. Aiming for 3,200 / day now, rather than the 3,000 I was before.
I'm going to montior my weight gain, and strength gains, keep as-is for a few weeks, then most likely up from there.
Last night was a better workout. I am trying to focus on feeling it in my chest when I bench, and I noticed a differnece once I didn't grip the bar so hard, and allowed my chest to do some of the work rather than just my arms are forearms. (It was a subtle difference... has anyone else felt this?)
So I'm feeling a litlte more hopeful today. I'm worried of ballooning back to exactly where I started back in September, but hopefully more strength gains will = more mass as well. I don't *believe* i've hit my max when it comes to noob gains, so hopefully I will experience some of that as well.
Are you still sticking to the program as written with the sets, reps, and progression scheme?
Yes I am!0 -
You're definitely looking much leaner from your first pic
You might feel your progress is slow, but I honestly think that you've made a big difference in a short time - wish my progress was as good. You're winning at cutting!
On with the bulk, I say. Just bear in mind that if you want results, you're in it for the long haul. I'm just starting my second bulk on the 1st and I'll need a good few more bulk/cut cycles before I get where I want to be. Just keep taking photos and measurements to motivate yourself.
Stick with your programme and enjoy the extra calories - it's been good reading your updates.
Thank you for your encouragement!0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »beginning to up my caloric intake. Aiming for 3,200 / day now, rather than the 3,000 I was before.
I'm going to montior my weight gain, and strength gains, keep as-is for a few weeks, then most likely up from there.
Last night was a better workout. I am trying to focus on feeling it in my chest when I bench, and I noticed a differnece once I didn't grip the bar so hard, and allowed my chest to do some of the work rather than just my arms are forearms. (It was a subtle difference... has anyone else felt this?)
So I'm feeling a litlte more hopeful today. I'm worried of ballooning back to exactly where I started back in September, but hopefully more strength gains will = more mass as well. I don't *believe* i've hit my max when it comes to noob gains, so hopefully I will experience some of that as well.
Are you still sticking to the program as written with the sets, reps, and progression scheme?
Yes I am!
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LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »beginning to up my caloric intake. Aiming for 3,200 / day now, rather than the 3,000 I was before.
I'm going to montior my weight gain, and strength gains, keep as-is for a few weeks, then most likely up from there.
Last night was a better workout. I am trying to focus on feeling it in my chest when I bench, and I noticed a differnece once I didn't grip the bar so hard, and allowed my chest to do some of the work rather than just my arms are forearms. (It was a subtle difference... has anyone else felt this?)
So I'm feeling a litlte more hopeful today. I'm worried of ballooning back to exactly where I started back in September, but hopefully more strength gains will = more mass as well. I don't *believe* i've hit my max when it comes to noob gains, so hopefully I will experience some of that as well.
Are you still sticking to the program as written with the sets, reps, and progression scheme?
Yes I am!
We are saving the world one lifter at a time!
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Yup ^^^JeffseekingV wrote: »You should take videos of your bench squat and dead. Probably some improvements to be had in there that will move your lifts and improve your outlook
Last year I thought my squat was pretty much on point but I decided to record it and posted it in the Eat, Train, Progress forum. It was pointed out that I had some pretty obvious flaws that I did not know existed. I had to reduce my squat by almost 50 lbs to get the form down but it was worth it.
Also there are great video out there on YouTube from guys like Mark Ripptoe, Scott Herman etc that do a great job at breaking down squats and deadlifts
Yeah, I've been in several squat discussions lately, and I really think I need to reevaluate my form. I need to find a way to video myself so I can actually get some critique.0 -
Stage one is buying a phone not ancient enough that it will have usable video... :laugh:
Yup ^^^JeffseekingV wrote: »You should take videos of your bench squat and dead. Probably some improvements to be had in there that will move your lifts and improve your outlook
Last year I thought my squat was pretty much on point but I decided to record it and posted it in the Eat, Train, Progress forum. It was pointed out that I had some pretty obvious flaws that I did not know existed. I had to reduce my squat by almost 50 lbs to get the form down but it was worth it.
Also there are great video out there on YouTube from guys like Mark Ripptoe, Scott Herman etc that do a great job at breaking down squats and deadlifts
Yeah, I've been in several squat discussions lately, and I really think I need to reevaluate my form. I need to find a way to video myself so I can actually get some critique.
Gonna have to suck up the potential embarrassment and ask a stranger to record you or get creative a prop the phone up on some weights to do it yourself. I did that yesterday and it worked out. When I had to drop my squat it was a real ego blow but it had to be done.
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Stage one is buying a phone not ancient enough that it will have usable video... :laugh:
Yup ^^^JeffseekingV wrote: »You should take videos of your bench squat and dead. Probably some improvements to be had in there that will move your lifts and improve your outlook
Last year I thought my squat was pretty much on point but I decided to record it and posted it in the Eat, Train, Progress forum. It was pointed out that I had some pretty obvious flaws that I did not know existed. I had to reduce my squat by almost 50 lbs to get the form down but it was worth it.
Also there are great video out there on YouTube from guys like Mark Ripptoe, Scott Herman etc that do a great job at breaking down squats and deadlifts
Yeah, I've been in several squat discussions lately, and I really think I need to reevaluate my form. I need to find a way to video myself so I can actually get some critique.
Gonna have to suck up the potential embarrassment and ask a stranger to record you or get creative a prop the phone up on some weights to do it yourself. I did that yesterday and it worked out. When I had to drop my squat it was a real ego blow but it had to be done.
LMFAO! Yes, that most definitely needs to happen first!0
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