If eating trash makes us sick, why do we keep eating it?
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It's about dopamine. You get hormone rushes in your brain that make you feel good when you eat sugar and fat, but you also get insulin rushes with the candy/carbs, that bring you down. It's a vicious cycle.... but no food is terrible, it's all just macros (carb/protein/fat) and you are less hungry if you eat fats and protein. And drink enough water, that tends to stave off the cravings. Just take it one day at a time.1
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »
So you're saying it's absolutely not about having the willpower or accepting personal responsibility and it's all the foods fault?
No one said anything about absolutely this or absolutely that. Many people overeat junk food, apply some limits, and are just fine.
For some people, food triggers them to eat more, the way a peanut may trigger you to break out in hives. Is breaking out in hives a lack of willpower?
I really don't understand why, whenever the topic of food + addiction comes up, some people freak out and insist that it's not real. I don't see how your experience with food somehow trumps my experience with food.
"The world is bigger than you, and you are not me." -- REM
It's not that we don't believe that someone is addicted to a certain food, but when posters start comparing sugar to crack, that's when people get militant. Someone then posts a link showing the dopamine release from sugar is more significant than hard drugs, and those that don't fight the cravings for candy are suddenly off the hook for binging. Then the claims that food manufacturers are manipulating their product to intentionally keep customers coming back arise.
So yes, I believe it is absolutely a matter of willpower. You can choose to eat candy or not. I would also agree that it may be more difficult for others for a number of reasons, but that does not make it any less of a choice.
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http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/
Seeing as ischemic heart disease (heart attack) is directly related to diet the majority of the time, I would say so.
That's interesting, let's look at the risk factors. Risk factors (dietary) include high blood pressure, high cholesterol and or triglycerides, diabetes and obesity. That's interesting because it's the obesity that is most directly related to high blood pressure. May or may not be related to cholesterol. Definetely related to diabetes. Food in and of itself does not make us obese though, over-eaitng and sedentary lifestyle (no exercise) make us obese.
Other risk factors: tobacco use, age, family history, lack of physical activity, stress, illegal drug use, preeclampsia, rheumatoid arthritis and lupus. None related to diet...
So I would say heart attack is not directly related to diet at all...
Then you're fooling yourself.
In the majority of cases, no. Diet is not related directly to heart attack. A sedentary lifestyle and overeating any type of food at all, regardless of type, leading to obesity, will cause a major increase in the risk of heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, and cancer. Genetics alone can cause an increase in the risk of higher cholesterol. You cannot blame any specific food group or diet on a higher level of cholesterol or risk of heart attack in the general population. Heart disease is the number one killer of men and women because there is an obesity epidemic happening not only in our own country but in almost all first-world countries.
And the obesity epidemic is related to an excess of food consumed ie diet.
I don't think anyone said any specific food group was responsible fir obesity but an excess intake of calories certainly is - hence diet, ie eating excess amounts, is related to heart attacks ( not the only factor, nobody is saying that either - but a very significant factor )
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I wrote and truly believe the following statement -
I believe we are on the brink of a revolution to change the way people think about food as, certainly here in Australia, people are looking more and more at the types of food they eat and are starting to turn their backs on processed food because they are concerned about the additives and chemicals that are in that food.paperpudding wrote: »
really?
I havent noticed people in Australia doing that.
Yes paperpudding, things are changing and I am surprised you haven't noticed because it is all around us.
Currently, in Australia there is a petition to the Heart Foundation to revise their method of using and distributing the once highly respected "tick."
It is now felt the "tick of approval" is given to the company with the most money regardless of whether their product is deemed by current changing views as to what is healthy. People are becoming more aware of what is a healthy product and what is not. Thus the petition "To Flick the Tick" Processed foods and additives are not deemed healthy - just profit making.
Restaurants are having to make adjustments to their menus to accommodate the changing tastes of customers and the trend toward gluten free and healthy. Paleo inspired restaurants are opening around the country.
One of the chef's from the highest rating cooking show on Australia TV has a Facebook following of nearly 400,000 people all learning about eating as close to nature as possible. His cookbooks are selling in massive numbers as are the following trends in cookbooks for 2014 -
1. Stovetop Travel.
2. Live-Fire Cooking.
3. Farm to Fork.
4. Healthy, Healthy, Healthy.
5. Gluten-Free Living.
6. Eat Your Veggies.
7&8. Wine Inspired cookbooks. (Oops how did they hit the list!!)
Fruits and vegetables shops are becoming highly successful and in the case of our small local shop, I counted 60 plus people in there when I passed yesterday.
My own friends are changing their eating habits and turning their backs on processed food & sugar and are reading labels and wanting to know where their food comes from and what is in it.
These are just my personal observations and there are many, many more.
Yes things are changing and I think for the better.
Yes cook books sell well, cooking shows on TVs are popular, people like things on Facebook .nothing new there.
And yes, the Heart Foundation has been called to account for questionable ethics in sale of heart tick.
But I don t equate any of these to a revolution among the masses turning away from processed foods.
Which I don't see happening and neither does it need to. One can eat a balanced diet which includes processed foods and 'chemical additives'
And includes fruit and veg too - you know, balanced diet - so people can be seen in fruit and veg shops and also eat processed foods, it isn't one or the other.
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »
So you're saying it's absolutely not about having the willpower or accepting personal responsibility and it's all the foods fault?
No one said anything about absolutely this or absolutely that. Many people overeat junk food, apply some limits, and are just fine.
For some people, food triggers them to eat more, the way a peanut may trigger you to break out in hives. Is breaking out in hives a lack of willpower?
I really don't understand why, whenever the topic of food + addiction comes up, some people freak out and insist that it's not real. I don't see how your experience with food somehow trumps my experience with food.
"The world is bigger than you, and you are not me." -- REM
I think the question is whether that "trigger" is physical or emotional. In all cases I've seen or heard about, it's emotional. It is not an "addiction" in the way of, say, drugs or cigarettes.
Having been a smoker, I can tell you that there was a specific addictive substance in cigarettes, without which I would have a physical reaction. There was also an emotionally addictive aspect to the action and pleasure of smoking. Those were two separate things and had to be addressed separately.
What addictive substance are you suggesting is contained by these foods that people get addicted to?
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What addictive substance are you suggesting is contained by these foods that people get addicted to?
Look, I'm no food scientist. But this is what I know: when I eat a plate of vegetables, chicken, and sweet potatoes, I'm full, I'm happy, and I'm done.
When I eat three chocolate chip cookies, I then have an overpowering urge to eat the rest of the cookies.
In my past, I've thrown cookies away and fished them back out of the garbage to eat them any way. I've stolen snacks from co-workers. I've stolen money to buy food from vending machines. I've driven to different grocery stores so the clerk won't see how much sweet food I'm buying. I haven't done that because I'm a criminal or starving. I've done it because of an overwhelming urge to eat more of that food. The urge is so overwhelming that it overpowers all my ethics and morals.
I've never once done any of that for chicken, or vegetables, or beans.
Some foods cause me to have an overwhelming urge to eat so much of it that I think my stomach will literally explode before the urge goes away. I've eaten some foods while crying and pleading with myself to stop eating it. If I combat the urge, it comes back stronger the next time, and the binge is longer. The only way I've ever won against the urge is to not eat the food AT ALL.
It's not a matter of will power. I don't binge on chicken and vegetable and green beans. I don't binge in applesauce or yogurt or Cheerios. I don't binge on sushi. I don't binge on pork loin, or salad, or any of a thousand other foods.
I binge on foods that are a combination of sugar + fat, and not necessarily just processed food. Certainly Oreos set me off, but so do my own homemade chocolate chip cookies. I'll eat the entire batch. There are some foods, like squash casserole, I will order in a restaurant, but I won't make at home because I'm concerned I'll eat the whole pan.
I really appreciate the fact that many people can eat all foods in moderation. Good luck and cheers to them. That's not who I am. Some foods I need to stay the hell away from all all times.
I don't know why this is, and I don't care. I just know it is, and I'm not going back the hell on earth that was my life when I was binging.
My personal responsibility isn't to eat those foods in moderation. My personal responsibility is to stay away from those foods altogether.0 -
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I think more people need to realize this about themselves.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Look, I'm no food scientist.
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »
No one said anything about absolutely this or absolutely that. Many people overeat junk food, apply some limits, and are just fine.
For some people, food triggers them to eat more, the way a peanut may trigger you to break out in hives. Is breaking out in hives a lack of willpower?
I really don't understand why, whenever the topic of food + addiction comes up, some people freak out and insist that it's not real. I don't see how your experience with food somehow trumps my experience with food.
"The world is bigger than you, and you are not me." -- REM[/quote]
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Your name makes me think of a family guy episode.zachbonner wrote: »Those are the toxins. If you'd like I can point you to an awesome low acid, high fibre cleanse diet that I've been trying lately!
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zachbonner wrote: »Those are the toxins. If you'd like I can point you to an awesome low acid, high fibre cleanse diet that I've been trying lately!
Is that the baking soda cleanse?
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »What addictive substance are you suggesting is contained by these foods that people get addicted to?
Look, I'm no food scientist. But this is what I know: when I eat a plate of vegetables, chicken, and sweet potatoes, I'm full, I'm happy, and I'm done.
When I eat three chocolate chip cookies, I then have an overpowering urge to eat the rest of the cookies.
In my past, I've thrown cookies away and fished them back out of the garbage to eat them any way. I've stolen snacks from co-workers. I've stolen money to buy food from vending machines. I've driven to different grocery stores so the clerk won't see how much sweet food I'm buying. I haven't done that because I'm a criminal or starving. I've done it because of an overwhelming urge to eat more of that food. The urge is so overwhelming that it overpowers all my ethics and morals.
I've never once done any of that for chicken, or vegetables, or beans.
Some foods cause me to have an overwhelming urge to eat so much of it that I think my stomach will literally explode before the urge goes away. I've eaten some foods while crying and pleading with myself to stop eating it. If I combat the urge, it comes back stronger the next time, and the binge is longer. The only way I've ever won against the urge is to not eat the food AT ALL.
It's not a matter of will power. I don't binge on chicken and vegetable and green beans. I don't binge in applesauce or yogurt or Cheerios. I don't binge on sushi. I don't binge on pork loin, or salad, or any of a thousand other foods.
I binge on foods that are a combination of sugar + fat, and not necessarily just processed food. Certainly Oreos set me off, but so do my own homemade chocolate chip cookies. I'll eat the entire batch. There are some foods, like squash casserole, I will order in a restaurant, but I won't make at home because I'm concerned I'll eat the whole pan.
I really appreciate the fact that many people can eat all foods in moderation. Good luck and cheers to them. That's not who I am. Some foods I need to stay the hell away from all all times.
I don't know why this is, and I don't care. I just know it is, and I'm not going back the hell on earth that was my life when I was binging.
My personal responsibility isn't to eat those foods in moderation. My personal responsibility is to stay away from those foods altogether.
And you believe that it is some addictive substance in the food itself that causes this behavior, and not some mental or emotional trigger in you?
I'm trying to understand here, having been addicted to nicotine and knowing what it feels like. Do you have a physical reaction when you don't eat cookies? Do you have this binging urging when you eat other things that are sweet, like sweet potatoes? What if the sweet potatoes are made with brown sugar? Honey? Is it only pre-packaged sweets like cookies and snack cakes that inspire this behavior? Or is it everything that has some specific ingredient? Is it sucrose, high-fructose corn syrup, or some other specific sugar?
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I responded in this thread early on with no subsequent replies, but I feel the need to say something here. I mean no offense at all with anything I say or ask here, but the parts I put in bold scream eating disordered behaviors around food.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »What addictive substance are you suggesting is contained by these foods that people get addicted to?
Look, I'm no food scientist. But this is what I know: when I eat a plate of vegetables, chicken, and sweet potatoes, I'm full, I'm happy, and I'm done.
When I eat three chocolate chip cookies, I then have an overpowering urge to eat the rest of the cookies.
In my past, I've thrown cookies away and fished them back out of the garbage to eat them any way. I've stolen snacks from co-workers. I've stolen money to buy food from vending machines. I've driven to different grocery stores so the clerk won't see how much sweet food I'm buying. I haven't done that because I'm a criminal or starving. I've done it because of an overwhelming urge to eat more of that food. The urge is so overwhelming that it overpowers all my ethics and morals.
I've never once done any of that for chicken, or vegetables, or beans.
Some foods cause me to have an overwhelming urge to eat so much of it that I think my stomach will literally explode before the urge goes away. I've eaten some foods while crying and pleading with myself to stop eating it. If I combat the urge, it comes back stronger the next time, and the binge is longer. The only way I've ever won against the urge is to not eat the food AT ALL.
It's not a matter of will power. I don't binge on chicken and vegetable and green beans. I don't binge in applesauce or yogurt or Cheerios. I don't binge on sushi. I don't binge on pork loin, or salad, or any of a thousand other foods.
I binge on foods that are a combination of sugar + fat, and not necessarily just processed food. Certainly Oreos set me off, but so do my own homemade chocolate chip cookies. I'll eat the entire batch. There are some foods, like squash casserole, I will order in a restaurant, but I won't make at home because I'm concerned I'll eat the whole pan.
I really appreciate the fact that many people can eat all foods in moderation. Good luck and cheers to them. That's not who I am. Some foods I need to stay the hell away from all all times.
I don't know why this is, and I don't care. I just know it is, and I'm not going back the hell on earth that was my life when I was binging.
My personal responsibility isn't to eat those foods in moderation. My personal responsibility is to stay away from those foods altogether.
You say you don't know why you binge on certain foods, and you don't care, but isn't trying to find out why you engaged in those behaviors a part of personal responsibility? It seems to me that the food is not the real culprit at all, but perhaps something inside of you that needs addressing.
I say the above with all due respect, and because many years ago I had similar eating disordered behaviors, along with bulimia, and the only thing that helped me was counseling in an eating disorder group.
This is just me, but after years of avoiding certain food groups, I now eat everything in moderation. It took a lot of work and a firm decision to stop demonizing food and to realize that food has no power over me, that I am 100% responsible for my eating habits. It took a long time to get to this place, and I had a lot of fear around food to work through, but it can be done.
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Whoa, someone ate out of the trash?! lol.-1
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me: I just know it is, and I'm not going back the hell on earth that was my life when I was binging.
you: This is just me, but after years of avoiding certain food groups, I now eat everything in moderation.
Oh, yeah, I have a TOTAL eating disorder around food. That's the whole point of why I binge to the point of total exhaustion. I have zero interest in going back to that, and there's no cookie on earth worth trying to find out if I can eat in moderation.
Good for you for being able to eat everything in moderation. I'm genuinely glad that works for you.
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »
And you believe that it is some addictive substance in the food itself that causes this behavior, and not some mental or emotional trigger in you?
I'm trying to understand here, having been addicted to nicotine and knowing what it feels like. Do you have a physical reaction when you don't eat cookies? Do you have this binging urging when you eat other things that are sweet, like sweet potatoes? What if the sweet potatoes are made with brown sugar? Honey? Is it only pre-packaged sweets like cookies and snack cakes that inspire this behavior? Or is it everything that has some specific ingredient? Is it sucrose, high-fructose corn syrup, or some other specific sugar?
I think the combination of sugar, fat, and flour does to my brain what drugs or alcohol does for addicts. I've smoked cigarettes in the past and I've been addicted to cigarettes in the sense that I've craved them, and it was hard to kick the habit, but those cravings were nothing like my cravings for sweet foods.
I know that if I start smoking again, I'll have a hard time quitting, but I'll eventually quit. I know that if I start binging again, I will check myself into rehab. That's the difference between the two -- one is difficult and irritating, the other is overwhelming and frightening and powerful and I wouldn't be able to break it by myself.
However, I don't think the sugar, fat, or flour is an addictive substance, the way nicotine is. I think there is something else going on. The food isn't the problem -- I'm the problem. I respond to that combination of food much like a craving for drugs, so strong that I'll do anything -- even things that are morally repellent to me -- to get it. That's why people who experience this liken it to crack. The food isn't crack, but our response to the food sure is the response of a crack addict.
I have certain foods that are off limits, and I have certain foods that are slippery slope. Dessert foods -- off limits. Sweet potatoes are fine, but sweet potatoes with brown sugar and butter is really getting close to the line. Cupcakes -- no. Muffins -- close to the line but ok. I will have cravings the next day when I eat a muffin. Tonight I had gas station cappuccino, so tomorrow I might have some cravings for sweet foods, but as long as I follow my food plan for tomorrow, those cravings will disappear.
But I'm not the food police. I don't think there's a conspiracy out there trying to make us addicted to food. My response is to food because that was the first thing in my life that lit up my brain. I could have as easily been an alcoholic or a drug addict. It's just that food got there first.
I hope this help, and thanks for asking.0 -
All or nothing thinking doesn't make eating disorders go away.
It merely puts off the inevitable return to the binge/restrict/guilt cycle.
I don't care if you never eat a cookie again. That's your business.
But you should probably consider dealing with your issues concerning food.
If nothing else, you wouldn't have to be hyper vigilant anymore.
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »
You know, I threw away a slice of cake once where I actually thought about doing that.
It was that good. I didn't though.0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »
And you believe that it is some addictive substance in the food itself that causes this behavior, and not some mental or emotional trigger in you?
I'm trying to understand here, having been addicted to nicotine and knowing what it feels like. Do you have a physical reaction when you don't eat cookies? Do you have this binging urging when you eat other things that are sweet, like sweet potatoes? What if the sweet potatoes are made with brown sugar? Honey? Is it only pre-packaged sweets like cookies and snack cakes that inspire this behavior? Or is it everything that has some specific ingredient? Is it sucrose, high-fructose corn syrup, or some other specific sugar?
I think the combination of sugar, fat, and flour does to my brain what drugs or alcohol does for addicts. I've smoked cigarettes in the past and I've been addicted to cigarettes in the sense that I've craved them, and it was hard to kick the habit, but those cravings were nothing like my cravings for sweet foods.
I know that if I start smoking again, I'll have a hard time quitting, but I'll eventually quit. I know that if I start binging again, I will check myself into rehab. That's the difference between the two -- one is difficult and irritating, the other is overwhelming and frightening and powerful and I wouldn't be able to break it by myself.
However, I don't think the sugar, fat, or flour is an addictive substance, the way nicotine is. I think there is something else going on. The food isn't the problem -- I'm the problem. I respond to that combination of food much like a craving for drugs, so strong that I'll do anything -- even things that are morally repellent to me -- to get it. That's why people who experience this liken it to crack. The food isn't crack, but our response to the food sure is the response of a crack addict.
I have certain foods that are off limits, and I have certain foods that are slippery slope. Dessert foods -- off limits. Sweet potatoes are fine, but sweet potatoes with brown sugar and butter is really getting close to the line. Cupcakes -- no. Muffins -- close to the line but ok. I will have cravings the next day when I eat a muffin. Tonight I had gas station cappuccino, so tomorrow I might have some cravings for sweet foods, but as long as I follow my food plan for tomorrow, those cravings will disappear.
But I'm not the food police. I don't think there's a conspiracy out there trying to make us addicted to food. My response is to food because that was the first thing in my life that lit up my brain. I could have as easily been an alcoholic or a drug addict. It's just that food got there first.
I hope this help, and thanks for asking.
What you describe is an eating disorder. I'm glad you've gotten a handle on it, and I hope you're able to one day address it in full. But that's really not the same thing as an addiction. A true addiction is a biological process.
Now, for the general population who don't have disordered eating patterns, eating too many calories is the problem, not binging on specific foods. Eating all foods in moderation does not make the average person sick, as is suggested in the OP.
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LolBroScience wrote: »
Because, if you're an "addict" you have a disease, and people should feel bad for you, and realize your lack of discipline is not your fault.
At first I wanted to write a really snarky reply to this, but then I realized that if you really believe this, that makes you lucky.
So instead of snark, I'll just tell you I envy you and I genuinely hope you keep this belief for your entire life.0 -
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zachbonner wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »
Because, if you're an "addict" you have a disease, and people should feel bad for you, and realize your lack of discipline is not your fault.
At first I wanted to write a really snarky reply to this, but then I realized that if you really believe this, that makes you lucky.
So instead of snark, I'll just tell you I envy you and I genuinely hope you keep this belief for your entire life.
Until you give in to a higher power you can never be cured.
The 12 steps to jesus.0 -
zachbonner wrote: »
Until you give in to a higher power you can never be cured.
Yeah, that was a pretty smarmy response on my part. A little too much "turn the other cheek"?
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