Guide to making claims based on research
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^^love the cat gifs
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Think of correlation as another way of saying there's a relationship of some kind between two things.
Correlation is an attribute of the way we do math, it has no basis in physical reality. It's just a fancy way of saying "I don't understand the mechanism, so I'm going to guess these things are related".
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Think of correlation as another way of saying there's a relationship of some kind between two things.
Correlation is an attribute of the way we do math, it has no basis in physical reality. It's just a fancy way of saying "I don't understand the mechanism, so I'm going to guess these things are related".
Except correlations are determined by statistical means, not by guesswork. Correlations thus demonstrate that there is a relationship between the two variables, although further work can be done to see if something is mediating this relationship.0 -
Then move on to another thread if this is not one you care to read? It's a chat forum as you said, and there are no restrictions for how long posts need to be. I frequently come across posts that I don't care to read because htey are too long, yet I do not go in telling everyone "HEY SORRY, TL;DR AND I THUS HAVE NO CONTRIBUTION TO YOUR THREAD"0 -
Think of correlation as another way of saying there's a relationship of some kind between two things.
Correlation is an attribute of the way we do math, it has no basis in physical reality. It's just a fancy way of saying "I don't understand the mechanism, so I'm going to guess these things are related".
Except correlations are determined by statistical means, not by guesswork.
Statistics IS guesswork.
The fact we use numbers to generate the guesses doesn't change the underlying reality.
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Then move on to another thread if this is not one you care to read? It's a chat forum as you said, and there are no restrictions for how long posts need to be. I frequently come across posts that I don't care to read because htey are too long, yet I do not go in telling everyone "HEY SORRY, TL;DR AND I THUS HAVE NO CONTRIBUTION TO YOUR THREAD"
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Your stats might be guesswork.Think of correlation as another way of saying there's a relationship of some kind between two things.
Correlation is an attribute of the way we do math, it has no basis in physical reality. It's just a fancy way of saying "I don't understand the mechanism, so I'm going to guess these things are related".
Except correlations are determined by statistical means, not by guesswork.
Statistics IS guesswork.
The fact we use numbers to generate the guesses doesn't change the underlying reality.
Mine are the result of an RNG.
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I don't. Most college instructors have only masters degrees.WalkingAlong wrote: »
I stopped reading there because I'm not claiming any thing at all about VLCDs except that 1200 isn't a VLCD. Do they say 1200 calories is dangerous for overweight adults? If so, I'll read them.WalkingAlong wrote: »
Are you saying you think 1200 is a dangerous VLCD and the way to lose is to 'eat more to weigh less'? And that links in my profile poked a hole in those beliefs, which makes you angry at me? You can see that no where in there does it say that anyone *has to* eat at any certain deficit or level, right? Just that if you choose to, the odds of hurting yourself are probably slim.WalkingAlong wrote: »I find it fascinating that the person that was refusing to post the studies to begin with is the one with a profile page completely dedicated to providing studies and links to 1200 calorie diets, VLCD and so on not being dangerous.
I put all that in my profile because I was so tired of you and others constantly posting that 1200 was always dangerous. And you know what? Since I put all that there and directed people to it in threads a few times, the 1200 b.s. has scaled way back.
I'm sorry you still see 1200 as "VLCD" though. It's really not. VLCD is generally considered 800 and lower. MFP itself recommends 1200 all day long. Kind of odd if it's VLCD, which they don't promote.
A couple years ago you could hardly read a thread without reading "you can't eat below your BMR!!" Enough of us bashed heads long enough that that myth finally slinked off into the shadows with the EM2WL crowd.
Now you've truly caught not only caught my attention but spurred me to action. I'm just a regular user of MFP and read a lot of the messages boards, where I stumbled upon both the "VLCD" and "EM2WL" arguments.
By the way, when I posted all that there, I repeatedly asked proponents for studies that said 1200 IS dangerous, so I could post them there, too. No one ever offered anything.
But this is getting way off topic.
I just tried searching in my university's database, I either don't know what search term to use or there just isn't muhc available in my school's database. I found one, which I cannot find an access link to unfortunately
NUTRITION NOTES. Source:
RN; Jan90, Vol. 53 Issue 1, p80-101, 1/3p
Abstract:
Presents updates on nutrition as of January 1990. Dangers of a hypo-allergenic diet in children; Risk faced by obese patients on a very low-calorie diet.
Otherwise, I can't find any articles that specifically talk about long-term adherence to VLCDs.
I believe you're right that there isn't much available in your university's database because there is overwhelming evidence that it's safe so studying it would be a waste of time and effort. They might refer to it as an LCD or as hypocaloric, though, if you want to keep looking.
..... Seriously, HOW do you have a doctorate? Researchers do not only study negative phenomena. They will even study plenty of things that appear to be common sense
I'm not going to argue this field with you, I'm sorry. Good luck in your classes and your quest for better cited forum posts.
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
I stopped reading there because I'm not claiming any thing at all about VLCDs except that 1200 isn't a VLCD. Do they say 1200 calories is dangerous for overweight adults? If so, I'll read them.WalkingAlong wrote: »
Are you saying you think 1200 is a dangerous VLCD and the way to lose is to 'eat more to weigh less'? And that links in my profile poked a hole in those beliefs, which makes you angry at me? You can see that no where in there does it say that anyone *has to* eat at any certain deficit or level, right? Just that if you choose to, the odds of hurting yourself are probably slim.WalkingAlong wrote: »I find it fascinating that the person that was refusing to post the studies to begin with is the one with a profile page completely dedicated to providing studies and links to 1200 calorie diets, VLCD and so on not being dangerous.
I put all that in my profile because I was so tired of you and others constantly posting that 1200 was always dangerous. And you know what? Since I put all that there and directed people to it in threads a few times, the 1200 b.s. has scaled way back.
I'm sorry you still see 1200 as "VLCD" though. It's really not. VLCD is generally considered 800 and lower. MFP itself recommends 1200 all day long. Kind of odd if it's VLCD, which they don't promote.
A couple years ago you could hardly read a thread without reading "you can't eat below your BMR!!" Enough of us bashed heads long enough that that myth finally slinked off into the shadows with the EM2WL crowd.
Now you've truly caught not only caught my attention but spurred me to action. I'm just a regular user of MFP and read a lot of the messages boards, where I stumbled upon both the "VLCD" and "EM2WL" arguments.
By the way, when I posted all that there, I repeatedly asked proponents for studies that said 1200 IS dangerous, so I could post them there, too. No one ever offered anything.
But this is getting way off topic.
I just tried searching in my university's database, I either don't know what search term to use or there just isn't muhc available in my school's database. I found one, which I cannot find an access link to unfortunately
NUTRITION NOTES. Source:
RN; Jan90, Vol. 53 Issue 1, p80-101, 1/3p
Abstract:
Presents updates on nutrition as of January 1990. Dangers of a hypo-allergenic diet in children; Risk faced by obese patients on a very low-calorie diet.
Otherwise, I can't find any articles that specifically talk about long-term adherence to VLCDs.
I believe you're right that there isn't much available in your university's database because there is overwhelming evidence that it's safe so studying it would be a waste of time and effort. They might refer to it as an LCD or as hypocaloric, though, if you want to keep looking.
..... Seriously, HOW do you have a doctorate? Researchers do not only study negative phenomena. They will even study plenty of things that appear to be common sense
Wow, how did it come to this?
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I think Mr Knight is guessing what the underlying reality is...
anddon't. Most college instructors have only masters degrees.
lol.-1 -
I don't know what country you're in but in the US over 50% of college faculty members aren't even full time. They're adjuncts who work in the field of study, have a lot of experience and a masters or two and teach on the side.Wronkletoad wrote: »I think Mr Knight is guessing what the underlying reality is...
anddon't. Most college instructors have only masters degrees.
lol.
And no, I'm not going to cite my sources, sorry. Believe it or don't, I don't care.
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double lolz.
NESCAC graduate, and no, not Bates.
and those teachers churn out people like you. it's quite the cycle!-2 -
Bump
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Also, correlation can imply causation, especially if there are multiple studies showing correlation. It doesn't prove causation, but it certainly may imply it.
It actually goes the other way around--if you have causation, you usually have correlation. Statistically, correlation does not imply causation. Multiple studies showing correlation does not add up to causation.
Think of correlation as another way of saying there's a relationship of some kind between two things. The relationship does not necessarily mean one causes the other. Causation can only be illustrated through specific types of research that allow for specific controls for the control group(s) and treatment conditions, with specific types of data analysis/processing. Not all research that people set out to do can lend itself to a result of causation. But almost all research can reveal if there is a correlation between two groups. I use this link a lot with my students. http://www.stats.org/faq_vs.htm
This one is just freakin' funny! http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-see-correlation-is-not-causation-20140512-column.html
It seems like you are saying the same thing as I, yet also disagreeing with me. Imply and prove are not synonyms. Just as correlation and causation are not.0 -
Wronkletoad wrote: »I think Mr Knight is guessing what the underlying reality is...
anddon't. Most college instructors have only masters degrees.
lol.
Not in the sciences. A masters might get you a staff slot though. If there aren't and PhD holders that want it.
In fields where a masters is a terminus degree, then yes, you'll have people with Masters degrees teaching. You'll also find people with a masters teaching at a level below their degree, I have a friend who is a stats teacher with a masters, but can't teach higher than undergrad level at his uni until he receives his phd.0 -
like a residency position!0
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