"The big fat calorie counting con"
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lol, have we figured out Gale is that weird troll that was posting the biology text book as evidence for his off the wall opinions, and was using that doctor's picture?0
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LolBroScience wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
Everything you've ever said is wrong.
Thanks Funky for the comment. Coming at 100% of doing anything anymore is super for me.
That's not even a sentence.
Watch out, he might post that metabolic adaptation link to prove it is a sentence.
jissn.com/content/11/1/7
Is this the one you are talking about that LolBroScience posted about dieting?
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lol, have we figured out Gale is that weird troll that was posting the biology text book as evidence for his off the wall opinions, and was using that doctor's picture?
Not the same picture but a 'reduced' picture.
Actually this is just a link LolBroScience about the science of dieting in support of the validity of his user name.
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herrspoons wrote: »kelly_e_montana wrote: »I've only been able to maintain my weight since I've stopped counting calories. I counted since grade school and it led to a cycle of restriction and binging. Now I eat intuitively and move more and have stayed the same weight for the last year. I think it's a good tool if you have no idea about nutrition and calorie counts, but at some point it can become obsessive for some people (like I was).
I use MFP as a social site to connect with others who do the same sports. I always say "That's why it's called 'My Fitness Pal' instead of 'My Calorie Counting Pal.'" But that being said, people are all at different places in their journey and maybe calorie counting is a good training tool.
I agree with this if you're maintaining. A weekly weigh in will soon tell you if you're within your boundaries or not.
But for losing weight? No. Counting calories whilst eating reasonably is the only effective means of controlling the process.
I lost the first 35 and the last 15 of my 60+ pound loss without counting.
I lost 10 pounds in the middle by counting. It is not the "only" effective means of controlling the process. It is a good means for many. Portion control is a an equally effective option for many who already have a good idea of general calorie counts. In fact, it's a better option for many who have a disordered relationship with counting. I was medically advised to stop counting to lose weight and it worked.
Edit: You'd have to expand to my previous comments for this post to make sense, readers.
Second Edit: I have lots of friends who know absolutely nothing about nutrition or calories, and I can see calorie counting as a good tool. However, as I said before, I started counting calories in GRADE SCHOOL. I knew how many calories were in an egg before I hit puberty.
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Semantics. If you eat less food (calories) than your body uses daily, you lose weight. Call it what you will, it is the same thing, isn't it?
There is more to losing weight than education. It takes determination to stay with healthier habits once you have achieved your goal weight. The statistics are astronomical showing that a very high percentage of people, across the board, whether they have lost five pounds or hundreds of pounds, of regaining the weight they lost, often times, gaining even more.
HONESTLY, accounting (calorie counting) for what you eat and drink daily, and staying within your daily allotment, works for many of us, and is a huge part of what MFP promotes. I have lost over 160# using this method and have been maintaining for a year now.
There are all the aids we need at our fingertips to becoming healthier. Diligence, determination and discipline is what is keeping me from reverting back to old habits. I will not go back.0 -
I agree Snowflake, it takes more than education and healthy habits. It does take diligence and discipline and determination and you obviously have these virtues in abundance. Congratulations on your achievement. 0
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herrspoons wrote: »kelly_e_montana wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »kelly_e_montana wrote: »I've only been able to maintain my weight since I've stopped counting calories. I counted since grade school and it led to a cycle of restriction and binging. Now I eat intuitively and move more and have stayed the same weight for the last year. I think it's a good tool if you have no idea about nutrition and calorie counts, but at some point it can become obsessive for some people (like I was).
I use MFP as a social site to connect with others who do the same sports. I always say "That's why it's called 'My Fitness Pal' instead of 'My Calorie Counting Pal.'" But that being said, people are all at different places in their journey and maybe calorie counting is a good training tool.
I agree with this if you're maintaining. A weekly weigh in will soon tell you if you're within your boundaries or not.
But for losing weight? No. Counting calories whilst eating reasonably is the only effective means of controlling the process.
I lost the first 35 and the last 15 of my 60+ pound loss without counting. I lost 10 pounds in the middle by counting. It is not the "only" effective means of controlling the process. It is a good means for many. Portion control is a an equally effective option for many who already have a good idea of general calorie counts. In fact, it's a better option for many who have a disordered relationship with counting. I was medically advised to stop counting to lose weight and it worked.
Edit: You'd have to expand to my previous comments for this post to make sense, readers.
Second Edit: I have lots of friends who know absolutely nothing about nutrition or calories, and I can see calorie counting as a good tool. However, as I said before, I started counting calories in GRADE SCHOOL. I knew how many calories were in an egg before I hit puberty.
I'd agree if you have a good idea of portion size, and were familiar enough with food to be able to make a good estimate of calorie content by looking at it, which I think you do.
For the general populace who don't? I'm not convinced that's going to work for the vast majority of them (if it did we wouldn't have an increasing obesity issue), although it obviously will for some.
I think the reality is that most people need spoon fed on nutrition and calorie content, at least until they've enough experience and knowledge to make good ad hoc estimates.
This makes a lot more sense to me than the rather black and white perspective you stated, and argued for, earlier.
I do believe the current food climate would likely be best navigated using active counting and logging for the majority of people.
Here's the thing, and the reason why people will always look for other avenues, including fad diets and quick fixes; most people rebel at having that strict a relationship with eating. It's just ultimately unpalatable for a great many people, no matter how effective. They can conceptualize a short term plan, with an ending and a return to normalcy, quite well. Which is why those of us who realize we have to, on some level, watch what we eat for the rest of our lives get push back from people who are baffled as to why we'd still be doing so after losing weight.
I really have come to believe that millions, if not billions, of people the world over who have weight issues would rather stay fat than be expected to count and log calories for the rest of their lives.0 -
Meh. I suppose the article did what it was intended to do, spark a conversation. I've lost 100lbs just by 'counting calories' because I had absolutely NO IDEA how much I was eating before. I was only eating once a day and honestly, how many calories can there possibly be in 2 double cheeseburgers, large fries, 2 litre bottle of Coke and 2 Skor bars?!? For many of us, seeing things in black and white is the only option. Obviously, I could have lost weight just by knocking off a cheeseburger, a Skor bar and switching to diet Coke but I would hardly be healthy now, would I? I still indulge, but I watch my macros and learned to get off my *kitten* several times a day, too. Who could have guessed that eating right and exercising would lead to better health and weight loss?!?.....someone should tell the world.0
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herrspoons wrote: »I think the reality is that most people need spoon fed on nutrition and calorie content, at least until they've enough experience and knowledge to make good ad hoc estimates.
That doesn't work for the vast majority of people, either.
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herrspoons wrote: »
In which case they'll need to be more precise. So it goes.
That doesn't work for the vast majority of people, either.herrspoons wrote: »I think the reality is that most people need spoon fed on nutrition and calorie content, at least until they've enough experience and knowledge to make good ad hoc estimates.
We already know they won't be.
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herrspoons wrote: »kelly_e_montana wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »kelly_e_montana wrote: »I've only been able to maintain my weight since I've stopped counting calories. I counted since grade school and it led to a cycle of restriction and binging. Now I eat intuitively and move more and have stayed the same weight for the last year. I think it's a good tool if you have no idea about nutrition and calorie counts, but at some point it can become obsessive for some people (like I was).
I use MFP as a social site to connect with others who do the same sports. I always say "That's why it's called 'My Fitness Pal' instead of 'My Calorie Counting Pal.'" But that being said, people are all at different places in their journey and maybe calorie counting is a good training tool.
I agree with this if you're maintaining. A weekly weigh in will soon tell you if you're within your boundaries or not.
But for losing weight? No. Counting calories whilst eating reasonably is the only effective means of controlling the process.
I lost the first 35 and the last 15 of my 60+ pound loss without counting. I lost 10 pounds in the middle by counting. It is not the "only" effective means of controlling the process. It is a good means for many. Portion control is a an equally effective option for many who already have a good idea of general calorie counts. In fact, it's a better option for many who have a disordered relationship with counting. I was medically advised to stop counting to lose weight and it worked.
Edit: You'd have to expand to my previous comments for this post to make sense, readers.
Second Edit: I have lots of friends who know absolutely nothing about nutrition or calories, and I can see calorie counting as a good tool. However, as I said before, I started counting calories in GRADE SCHOOL. I knew how many calories were in an egg before I hit puberty.
I'd agree if you have a good idea of portion size, and were familiar enough with food to be able to make a good estimate of calorie content by looking at it, which I think you do.
For the general populace who don't? I'm not convinced that's going to work for the vast majority of them (if it did we wouldn't have an increasing obesity issue), although it obviously will for some.
I think the reality is that most people need spoon fed on nutrition and calorie content, at least until they've enough experience and knowledge to make good ad hoc estimates.
Fortunately, to a large degree, the FDA is giving us that spoon in the upcoming year by requiring restaurants and other food venues to list the calorie content of foods right on the menu. This includes supermarket delis and food bars, and concession stands. Any food outlet with more than 20 locations will be required to comply, so it still leaves out the mom and pop places, but I'm betting many of them will follow suit out of a desire to at least appear to have a concern for their customers' well-being.0 -
SnuggleSmacks wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »kelly_e_montana wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »kelly_e_montana wrote: »I've only been able to maintain my weight since I've stopped counting calories. I counted since grade school and it led to a cycle of restriction and binging. Now I eat intuitively and move more and have stayed the same weight for the last year. I think it's a good tool if you have no idea about nutrition and calorie counts, but at some point it can become obsessive for some people (like I was).
I use MFP as a social site to connect with others who do the same sports. I always say "That's why it's called 'My Fitness Pal' instead of 'My Calorie Counting Pal.'" But that being said, people are all at different places in their journey and maybe calorie counting is a good training tool.
I agree with this if you're maintaining. A weekly weigh in will soon tell you if you're within your boundaries or not.
But for losing weight? No. Counting calories whilst eating reasonably is the only effective means of controlling the process.
I lost the first 35 and the last 15 of my 60+ pound loss without counting. I lost 10 pounds in the middle by counting. It is not the "only" effective means of controlling the process. It is a good means for many. Portion control is a an equally effective option for many who already have a good idea of general calorie counts. In fact, it's a better option for many who have a disordered relationship with counting. I was medically advised to stop counting to lose weight and it worked.
Edit: You'd have to expand to my previous comments for this post to make sense, readers.
Second Edit: I have lots of friends who know absolutely nothing about nutrition or calories, and I can see calorie counting as a good tool. However, as I said before, I started counting calories in GRADE SCHOOL. I knew how many calories were in an egg before I hit puberty.
I'd agree if you have a good idea of portion size, and were familiar enough with food to be able to make a good estimate of calorie content by looking at it, which I think you do.
For the general populace who don't? I'm not convinced that's going to work for the vast majority of them (if it did we wouldn't have an increasing obesity issue), although it obviously will for some.
I think the reality is that most people need spoon fed on nutrition and calorie content, at least until they've enough experience and knowledge to make good ad hoc estimates.
Fortunately, to a large degree, the FDA is giving us that spoon in the upcoming year by requiring restaurants and other food venues to list the calorie content of foods right on the menu.
Won't make any difference - the likes of McDonalds has been putting their nutritional content out there for ages and they just keep selling more.
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »kelly_e_montana wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »kelly_e_montana wrote: »I've only been able to maintain my weight since I've stopped counting calories. I counted since grade school and it led to a cycle of restriction and binging. Now I eat intuitively and move more and have stayed the same weight for the last year. I think it's a good tool if you have no idea about nutrition and calorie counts, but at some point it can become obsessive for some people (like I was).
I use MFP as a social site to connect with others who do the same sports. I always say "That's why it's called 'My Fitness Pal' instead of 'My Calorie Counting Pal.'" But that being said, people are all at different places in their journey and maybe calorie counting is a good training tool.
I agree with this if you're maintaining. A weekly weigh in will soon tell you if you're within your boundaries or not.
But for losing weight? No. Counting calories whilst eating reasonably is the only effective means of controlling the process.
I lost the first 35 and the last 15 of my 60+ pound loss without counting. I lost 10 pounds in the middle by counting. It is not the "only" effective means of controlling the process. It is a good means for many. Portion control is a an equally effective option for many who already have a good idea of general calorie counts. In fact, it's a better option for many who have a disordered relationship with counting. I was medically advised to stop counting to lose weight and it worked.
Edit: You'd have to expand to my previous comments for this post to make sense, readers.
Second Edit: I have lots of friends who know absolutely nothing about nutrition or calories, and I can see calorie counting as a good tool. However, as I said before, I started counting calories in GRADE SCHOOL. I knew how many calories were in an egg before I hit puberty.
I'd agree if you have a good idea of portion size, and were familiar enough with food to be able to make a good estimate of calorie content by looking at it, which I think you do.
For the general populace who don't? I'm not convinced that's going to work for the vast majority of them (if it did we wouldn't have an increasing obesity issue), although it obviously will for some.
I think the reality is that most people need spoon fed on nutrition and calorie content, at least until they've enough experience and knowledge to make good ad hoc estimates.
Fortunately, to a large degree, the FDA is giving us that spoon in the upcoming year by requiring restaurants and other food venues to list the calorie content of foods right on the menu.
Won't make any difference - the likes of McDonalds has been putting their nutritional content out there for ages and they just keep selling more.
Not everywhere. Here in NC we have to look online to track down the nutritional content of restaurants. It can be a pain to spend 10 minutes figuring out what you want to eat while using up your smartphone's data. If the calories were clearly marked on the menu where you have to see it when you order, I think it will have an impact. Obviously, not everyone will take advantage of it, but for many people it will make life much easier.
There are few things that anyone could do aside from taking away people's choices which would have a major impact across the board.0 -
SnuggleSmacks wrote: »There are few things that anyone could do aside from taking away people's choices which would have a major impact across the board.
Forget "across the board" - there's nothing short of "taking away people's choices" that will work with even a significant minority.
We're just not biologically wired for long term access to cheap, plentiful food. We'll get there eventually, probably, but it'll take a few generations for natural selection to start kicking in. When young men start dating young ladies based on what that woman's mom looks like...then we'll know we're making headway.
(And vice versa on the genders...)
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »There are few things that anyone could do aside from taking away people's choices which would have a major impact across the board.
Forget "across the board" - there's nothing short of "taking away people's choices" that will work with even a significant minority.
We're just not biologically wired for long term access to cheap, plentiful food. We'll get there eventually, probably, but it'll take a few generations for natural selection to start kicking in. When young men start dating young ladies based on what that woman's mom looks like...then we'll know we're making headway.
(And vice versa on the genders...)
So, in the meantime, as was previously stated, spoon feeding people the nutritional info is the next step...and my post was simply to inform that the FDA is enacting this step. It may not have a huge impact on the majority, but does that mean it shouldn't be done?
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »There are few things that anyone could do aside from taking away people's choices which would have a major impact across the board.
Forget "across the board" - there's nothing short of "taking away people's choices" that will work with even a significant minority.
We're just not biologically wired for long term access to cheap, plentiful food. We'll get there eventually, probably, but it'll take a few generations for natural selection to start kicking in. When young men start dating young ladies based on what that woman's mom looks like...then we'll know we're making headway.
(And vice versa on the genders...)
So, in the meantime, as was previously stated, spoon feeding people the nutritional info is the next step...and my post was simply to inform that the FDA is enacting this step. It may not have a huge impact on the majority, but does that mean it shouldn't be done?
I remember being pretty annoyed when they started requiring calorie counts in California, partially because I was working at Starbucks at the time and we had a problem with not throwing away things like old tags so you had to make sure you had the ones with the calories on them before putting them in the case in the morning, and partially because I figured this information was available online, so why blast it everywhere?
Since beginning to calorie count, though, I am super glad it's there and required to be so. I think that it's worth it for ease of access for the people taking the first steps into calorie counting, watching what they eat, or whatever you want to call it, just because it can be super overwhelming at first.
Now I get annoyed at places like the Cheesecake Factory who only post like saturated fat, carbs, and fiber. Come on guys, give us the full picture. If someone freaks out over the sugar content of cheesecake, well....0 -
SnuggleSmacks wrote: »There are few things that anyone could do aside from taking away people's choices which would have a major impact across the board.
Forget "across the board" - there's nothing short of "taking away people's choices" that will work with even a significant minority.
We're just not biologically wired for long term access to cheap, plentiful food. We'll get there eventually, probably, but it'll take a few generations for natural selection to start kicking in. When young men start dating young ladies based on what that woman's mom looks like...then we'll know we're making headway.
(And vice versa on the genders...)
A few generations? Natural selection for this would likely take centuries and eons and that's more generations than are likely left in our species as we know it.0 -
Since beginning to calorie count, though, I am super glad it's there and required to be so. I think that it's worth it for ease of access for the people taking the first steps into calorie counting...
We've had it at all chains, including local ones, around here for a while, and although I ignored it pretty easily when I was not watching calories and didn't wish to know, it makes it so much easier, so if that's not the case many places I think the law will help people who care. I'm skeptical that it will affect mom & pops (or just regular restaurants with menus that change a lot and all that), as it is quite a hassle to include that information for them, and I don't really expect it ever when I go out to dinner given the types of restaurants I usually go to, but it's nice that I can buy something for lunch and have that information.
I am in favor of giving people information, but I agree with those saying education isn't really the issue--lots of times people know but just don't care. That was the case for me when I was at my fattest.
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