"The big fat calorie counting con"
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I disagree. Education does not automatically grant commitment or access. You could provide free nutrition classes to people in inner city food deserts but that won't make produce beyond a McDonald's salad just magically appear in a really stores.0
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »I disagree. Education does not automatically grant commitment or access. You could provide free nutrition classes to people in inner city food deserts but that won't make produce beyond a McDonald's salad just magically appear in a really stores.
What are you even going on about at this point? I said true education teaches people how to apply knowledge, it doesn't give them the absolute ability to do so. You're going way off on a tangent now. When I said someone must be able to apply it, I meant it as an attribute trait, not the physical ability of applying it.0 -
uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »I disagree. Education does not automatically grant commitment or access. You could provide free nutrition classes to people in inner city food deserts but that won't make produce beyond a McDonald's salad just magically appear in a really stores.
What are you even going on about at this point? I said true education teaches people how to apply knowledge, it doesn't give them the absolute ability to do so. You're going way off on a tangent now. When I said someone must be able to apply it, I meant it as an attribute trait, not the physical ability of applying it.
And I said simply that I disagree that education is the whole answer, and demonstrated how this is so in two different ways. Education is not the whole answer
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My intentions were never to make this family look bad but to highlight the need for educating our children so that they don't
It's an extremely complex issue and goes way beyond education. In fact, if you have a look at this review and meta-analysis, it shows that education is effective in treatment, but not prevention of childhood obesity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23454596
OBJECTIVE:
To assess the effectiveness of educational interventions including behavioral modification, nutrition and physical activity to prevent or treat childhood obesity through a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized trials.
RESULTS:
Of 22.852 articles retrieved, 26 trials (23.617 participants) were included. There were no differences in outcomes assessed in prevention studies. However, in treatment studies, educational interventions were associated with a significant reduction in waist circumference [-3.21 cm (95%CI -6.34, -0.07)], BMI [-0.86 kg/m(2) (95%CI -1.59, -0.14)] and diastolic blood pressure [-3.68 mmHg (95%CI -5.48, -1.88)].
CONCLUSIONS:
Educational interventions are effective in treatment, but not prevention, of childhood obesity and its consequences.
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Losing weight has requires virtually zero "education" or "knowledge". All anybody needs to know is that if the fat is padding on, eat less and move more.
"If you don't put it in, you can't put it on."
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »I disagree. Education does not automatically grant commitment or access. You could provide free nutrition classes to people in inner city food deserts but that won't make produce beyond a McDonald's salad just magically appear in a really stores.
What are you even going on about at this point? I said true education teaches people how to apply knowledge, it doesn't give them the absolute ability to do so. You're going way off on a tangent now. When I said someone must be able to apply it, I meant it as an attribute trait, not the physical ability of applying it.
And I said simply that I disagree that education is the whole answer, and demonstrated how this is so in two different ways. Education is not the whole answer
I am going based on the average person who has access to internet and a computer and the ability to afford primary life needs. Lets take weight loss and change the subject to aerospace engineering. First you have to learn about how rockets fly and the process of building one, then you have to apply that knowledge in practice by building a rocket that flies. If you were taught the knowledge and HOW to apply that knowledge, you'll build a successful rocket. You can't come in here and say, "Well, what about people who can't afford the parts to build a rocket?"
I get it. There are people who are in circumstances in which they cannot apply their knowledge because they got screwed over in life. My point is, you are more likely to find people who have lost weight and kept it off long term that knew what they were doing. You are less likely to find people who lost weight and kept it off long term who knew jack **** about exercising or calorie management. Education isn't only about what you learn in a classroom. It is built through experience and trial and error. One does not become educated by sitting through a 1 hour seminar.
You don't need to turn into a lawyer over here.0 -
uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »You are less likely to find people who lost weight and kept it off long term who knew jack **** about exercising or calorie management.
That's backwards - it's the exact opposite.
The more an individual knows about the mechanics of weight loss, the more likely they are to be obese.
Plus you are starting from a nearly-circular position by limiting the discussion to the class of "people who have lost weight" instead of including everybody who doesn't need to lose weight.
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OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
Nope, fat is the easiest to store. Carbs have to go through DNL.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
That's not how biochemistry works.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you are talking about here. Carbs don't go to fat very fast, if at all, and fat just stays fat. Could you provide elaborate on this point?0 -
*has quit counting calories for the day and still snacking on gummy bears while i read the entertainment*0
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uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »I disagree. Education does not automatically grant commitment or access. You could provide free nutrition classes to people in inner city food deserts but that won't make produce beyond a McDonald's salad just magically appear in a really stores.
What are you even going on about at this point? I said true education teaches people how to apply knowledge, it doesn't give them the absolute ability to do so. You're going way off on a tangent now. When I said someone must be able to apply it, I meant it as an attribute trait, not the physical ability of applying it.
And I said simply that I disagree that education is the whole answer, and demonstrated how this is so in two different ways. Education is not the whole answer
I am going based on the average person who has access to internet and a computer and the ability to afford primary life needs. Lets take weight loss and change the subject to aerospace engineering. First you have to learn about how rockets fly and the process of building one, then you have to apply that knowledge in practice by building a rocket that flies. If you were taught the knowledge and HOW to apply that knowledge, you'll build a successful rocket. You can't come in here and say, "Well, what about people who can't afford the parts to build a rocket?"
I get it. There are people who are in circumstances in which they cannot apply their knowledge because they got screwed over in life. My point is, you are more likely to find people who have lost weight and kept it off long term that knew what they were doing. You are less likely to find people who lost weight and kept it off long term who knew jack **** about exercising or calorie management. Education isn't only about what you learn in a classroom. It is built through experience and trial and error. One does not become educated by sitting through a 1 hour seminar.
You don't need to turn into a lawyer over here.
No law degree necessary. This is very simple. You said education was the whole answer. I said it isn't. I proved my point. Twice. Let it go.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
so much idiocy ….-1 -
*gained 2 lbs eating gummy bears and reading about carbs*
Anyway....how did this get so far off the original topic? Hmmmm.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
That's not how biochemistry works.
something tells me ole gayle does not give a damn about science and biochemistry ….0 -
emily_stew wrote: »TriShamelessly wrote: »Iwishyouwell wrote: »I couldn't care less about the calorie controversy, but I do think there needs to be a much greater conversation about macros and a de-villainization of the fat macro.
Then look no further than the White House for a place to start. Queen Michelle has demonized full fat and 2% milk in kid's lunches. Jiminy Cricket! They need the stuff to grow. And just keep the twinkies off the menu.
I haven't jumped in on this thread yet, because I just don't care, but.....what? Fat has been demonized for a lot longer than the last 6 or so years.
Yeah, it started in the 90's but I suspect it's a lot more fun to blame the president and/or his wife.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
Everything you've ever said is wrong.
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »I disagree. Education does not automatically grant commitment or access. You could provide free nutrition classes to people in inner city food deserts but that won't make produce beyond a McDonald's salad just magically appear in a really stores.
What are you even going on about at this point? I said true education teaches people how to apply knowledge, it doesn't give them the absolute ability to do so. You're going way off on a tangent now. When I said someone must be able to apply it, I meant it as an attribute trait, not the physical ability of applying it.
And I said simply that I disagree that education is the whole answer, and demonstrated how this is so in two different ways. Education is not the whole answer
I am going based on the average person who has access to internet and a computer and the ability to afford primary life needs. Lets take weight loss and change the subject to aerospace engineering. First you have to learn about how rockets fly and the process of building one, then you have to apply that knowledge in practice by building a rocket that flies. If you were taught the knowledge and HOW to apply that knowledge, you'll build a successful rocket. You can't come in here and say, "Well, what about people who can't afford the parts to build a rocket?"
I get it. There are people who are in circumstances in which they cannot apply their knowledge because they got screwed over in life. My point is, you are more likely to find people who have lost weight and kept it off long term that knew what they were doing. You are less likely to find people who lost weight and kept it off long term who knew jack **** about exercising or calorie management. Education isn't only about what you learn in a classroom. It is built through experience and trial and error. One does not become educated by sitting through a 1 hour seminar.
You don't need to turn into a lawyer over here.
No law degree necessary. This is very simple. You said education was the whole answer. I said it isn't. I proved my point. Twice. Let it go.
You didn't prove a point, you used outliers as evidence. For most people, knowledge and the application of that knowledge will lead to success. There will always be people who are unable to apply it due to outstanding circumstances but I am talking to people who, I assume, aren't living on the streets of Detroit. Sure I made a mistake and talked in absolutes, which I shouldn't have done, but you didn't have to get into the semantics of it.
However you feel, I hope you're able to get back on track! Happy Thanksgiving.
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Regarding animals and how they manage to maintain their own weight - I find that very confusing! As someone mentioned earlier, I also have two cats, and while one of them is tubby, the other one is thin as a rail. We increase their food, they eat more, their weights don't change. We decrease their food, they eat less, their weights still don't change.
The tubby one was starved when she was younger. We rescued her from an abusive and negligent home and she quickly fattened up in our care. But I have no idea how to get the weight off her. We're already feeding both cats according to their size and her tummy just doesn't budge.
I would like to say that I have a fair amount of knowledge regarding calories and macros and even the psychology of eating food for comfort to an extent, but the case study of my two adorable kitties confuses the whole weight loss issue for me.
Does anyone have any insight? (P.S. Totally off-topic, of course... :-) )0
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