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"The big fat calorie counting con"
Replies
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uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »I disagree. Education does not automatically grant commitment or access. You could provide free nutrition classes to people in inner city food deserts but that won't make produce beyond a McDonald's salad just magically appear in a really stores.
What are you even going on about at this point? I said true education teaches people how to apply knowledge, it doesn't give them the absolute ability to do so. You're going way off on a tangent now. When I said someone must be able to apply it, I meant it as an attribute trait, not the physical ability of applying it.
And I said simply that I disagree that education is the whole answer, and demonstrated how this is so in two different ways. Education is not the whole answer
I am going based on the average person who has access to internet and a computer and the ability to afford primary life needs. Lets take weight loss and change the subject to aerospace engineering. First you have to learn about how rockets fly and the process of building one, then you have to apply that knowledge in practice by building a rocket that flies. If you were taught the knowledge and HOW to apply that knowledge, you'll build a successful rocket. You can't come in here and say, "Well, what about people who can't afford the parts to build a rocket?"
I get it. There are people who are in circumstances in which they cannot apply their knowledge because they got screwed over in life. My point is, you are more likely to find people who have lost weight and kept it off long term that knew what they were doing. You are less likely to find people who lost weight and kept it off long term who knew jack **** about exercising or calorie management. Education isn't only about what you learn in a classroom. It is built through experience and trial and error. One does not become educated by sitting through a 1 hour seminar.
You don't need to turn into a lawyer over here.
No law degree necessary. This is very simple. You said education was the whole answer. I said it isn't. I proved my point. Twice. Let it go.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
so much idiocy ….-1 -
*gained 2 lbs eating gummy bears and reading about carbs*
Anyway....how did this get so far off the original topic? Hmmmm.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
That's not how biochemistry works.
something tells me ole gayle does not give a damn about science and biochemistry ….0 -
emily_stew wrote: »TriShamelessly wrote: »Iwishyouwell wrote: »I couldn't care less about the calorie controversy, but I do think there needs to be a much greater conversation about macros and a de-villainization of the fat macro.
Then look no further than the White House for a place to start. Queen Michelle has demonized full fat and 2% milk in kid's lunches. Jiminy Cricket! They need the stuff to grow. And just keep the twinkies off the menu.
I haven't jumped in on this thread yet, because I just don't care, but.....what? Fat has been demonized for a lot longer than the last 6 or so years.
Yeah, it started in the 90's but I suspect it's a lot more fun to blame the president and/or his wife.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »OK cute but back to subject.
Yesterday I saw a family, a very large family walking around the shopping centre together. Mum and dad were huge and wearing huge baggy clothing and their two children around 6 and 8 years of age were dressed the same. Horrible huge Tshirts and huge baggy shorts and all of them happily munching on donuts.
Now how can we get a family like that to count calories and exercise? Where do you even start? Tell them to weigh their donuts, lessen the amount of food they eat and to exercise? They would still remain unhealthy and pretty soon return to their old ways of eating and simply regain the lost weight. (I know for a fact this family buys seconds from the pie factory and uses them solely for their meals at night - no vegetables involved at all.)
Counting calories for the vast population will not work. Educating the public and children about nutrition will work.
Not always true. Just because someone is educated in nutrition does not mean they will follow sound nutritional advice.
Perhaps the adults in that family have studied nutrition but the just don't care.
Maybe they're all on diets but that day was their cheat day. Maybe they do count calories and decided they could allow themselves to eat donuts today.
Besides, it's not the donuts that made them fat, it's eating too much food in general.
Especially the carbs like donuts and pies that go to fat faster than fats or proteins.
Everything you've ever said is wrong.
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »I disagree. Education does not automatically grant commitment or access. You could provide free nutrition classes to people in inner city food deserts but that won't make produce beyond a McDonald's salad just magically appear in a really stores.
What are you even going on about at this point? I said true education teaches people how to apply knowledge, it doesn't give them the absolute ability to do so. You're going way off on a tangent now. When I said someone must be able to apply it, I meant it as an attribute trait, not the physical ability of applying it.
And I said simply that I disagree that education is the whole answer, and demonstrated how this is so in two different ways. Education is not the whole answer
I am going based on the average person who has access to internet and a computer and the ability to afford primary life needs. Lets take weight loss and change the subject to aerospace engineering. First you have to learn about how rockets fly and the process of building one, then you have to apply that knowledge in practice by building a rocket that flies. If you were taught the knowledge and HOW to apply that knowledge, you'll build a successful rocket. You can't come in here and say, "Well, what about people who can't afford the parts to build a rocket?"
I get it. There are people who are in circumstances in which they cannot apply their knowledge because they got screwed over in life. My point is, you are more likely to find people who have lost weight and kept it off long term that knew what they were doing. You are less likely to find people who lost weight and kept it off long term who knew jack **** about exercising or calorie management. Education isn't only about what you learn in a classroom. It is built through experience and trial and error. One does not become educated by sitting through a 1 hour seminar.
You don't need to turn into a lawyer over here.
No law degree necessary. This is very simple. You said education was the whole answer. I said it isn't. I proved my point. Twice. Let it go.
You didn't prove a point, you used outliers as evidence. For most people, knowledge and the application of that knowledge will lead to success. There will always be people who are unable to apply it due to outstanding circumstances but I am talking to people who, I assume, aren't living on the streets of Detroit. Sure I made a mistake and talked in absolutes, which I shouldn't have done, but you didn't have to get into the semantics of it.
However you feel, I hope you're able to get back on track! Happy Thanksgiving.
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Regarding animals and how they manage to maintain their own weight - I find that very confusing! As someone mentioned earlier, I also have two cats, and while one of them is tubby, the other one is thin as a rail. We increase their food, they eat more, their weights don't change. We decrease their food, they eat less, their weights still don't change.
The tubby one was starved when she was younger. We rescued her from an abusive and negligent home and she quickly fattened up in our care. But I have no idea how to get the weight off her. We're already feeding both cats according to their size and her tummy just doesn't budge.
I would like to say that I have a fair amount of knowledge regarding calories and macros and even the psychology of eating food for comfort to an extent, but the case study of my two adorable kitties confuses the whole weight loss issue for me.
Does anyone have any insight? (P.S. Totally off-topic, of course... :-) )0 -
GwynHannay wrote: »Regarding animals and how they manage to maintain their own weight - I find that very confusing! As someone mentioned earlier, I also have two cats, and while one of them is tubby, the other one is thin as a rail. We increase their food, they eat more, their weights don't change. We decrease their food, they eat less, their weights still don't change.
The tubby one was starved when she was younger. We rescued her from an abusive and negligent home and she quickly fattened up in our care. But I have no idea how to get the weight off her. We're already feeding both cats according to their size and her tummy just doesn't budge.
I would like to say that I have a fair amount of knowledge regarding calories and macros and even the psychology of eating food for comfort to an extent, but the case study of my two adorable kitties confuses the whole weight loss issue for me.
Does anyone have any insight? (P.S. Totally off-topic, of course... :-) )
Proportionally, a 1 pound change for a cat would be like a 20 pound change for a human (or something like that...) You might not really notice any weight change but it could be happening.
Do you actually weight your cats? Is the fat one takin' the other one's food?0 -
True, the weight changes might be miniscule. We weigh the cats occasionally using the Wii Fit, which measures to the 100 grams (which in pounds might equate to... I don't know *Googles* 0.22lb).
I do sometimes wonder about the food proportions, which cat is eating what, but given that they usually still have some food remaining when I top up their food bowls, I assume both are happy with what they get.
Another aside that my husband pointed out to me is that the tubby one doesn't move very much while the smaller one is always playing. Maybe the tubby one is still depressed. :-(0 -
Wow, this thread... I've been missing comedy gold. From Leena's judgemental antipode act, to weighing cats with wiifit.
I dig it.
Who's mailing list is this, and may I inquire about a subscription?0 -
emily_stew wrote: »TriShamelessly wrote: »Iwishyouwell wrote: »I couldn't care less about the calorie controversy, but I do think there needs to be a much greater conversation about macros and a de-villainization of the fat macro.
Then look no further than the White House for a place to start. Queen Michelle has demonized full fat and 2% milk in kid's lunches. Jiminy Cricket! They need the stuff to grow. And just keep the twinkies off the menu.
I haven't jumped in on this thread yet, because I just don't care, but.....what? Fat has been demonized for a lot longer than the last 6 or so years.
Yeah, it started in the 90's but I suspect it's a lot more fun to blame the president and/or his wife.
The low fat craze started in the 80s.0 -
Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »My intentions were never to make this family look bad but to highlight the need for educating our children so that they don't
It's an extremely complex issue and goes way beyond education. In fact, if you have a look at this review and meta-analysis, it shows that education is effective in treatment, but not prevention of childhood obesity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23454596
OBJECTIVE:
To assess the effectiveness of educational interventions including behavioral modification, nutrition and physical activity to prevent or treat childhood obesity through a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized trials.
RESULTS:
Of 22.852 articles retrieved, 26 trials (23.617 participants) were included. There were no differences in outcomes assessed in prevention studies. However, in treatment studies, educational interventions were associated with a significant reduction in waist circumference [-3.21 cm (95%CI -6.34, -0.07)], BMI [-0.86 kg/m(2) (95%CI -1.59, -0.14)] and diastolic blood pressure [-3.68 mmHg (95%CI -5.48, -1.88)].
CONCLUSIONS:
Educational interventions are effective in treatment, but not prevention, of childhood obesity and its consequences.
Sorry about not finishing my sentence but I was in a bit of a hurry this morning and posted reply without checking. I think I ended it something like this -
"My intentions were never to make this family look bad but to highlight the need for educating our children so that they don't make the same mistakes as their parents."
Charlotte, the conclusion is probably correct but hopefully one day that will change and we will be successful in preventing childhood obesity.
As for some of the comments which have been made because of my original story - well I will simply ignore them because I know the truth about my friendship with this family over the years. They seem to love me despite my obviously numerous faults.
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Blueseraphchaos wrote: »*gained 2 lbs eating gummy bears and reading about carbs*
Anyway....how did this get so far off the original topic? Hmmmm.
You do realize this is MFP, right?
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Your venom MrM27and twisting of truth truly amazes me and I can't help but wonder what your motives are. This picture you paint is all in your mind, it is not reality as this family will continue to be my friends and be welcome in my home. The mother and I will continue to chat over the fence and the children will continue to show me their treasures after school and none of this will change because of some negative concept that you have of me. And as a neighbour and friend, I will continue to be concerned for their future.0
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And all that means what?????0
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Would you be ok with your friends reading the posts about them?0
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And all that means what?????
It means do as I say, not as I do, and you are a very mean person it seems.
Not like oh... that person is being rude on a forum. I mean geniunely mean. At least that is what you are showing here. The kind of person who would harm something someone else had because you perceived it as better than what you had.
If that is not accurate, demonstrate how it is inaccurate through future activity.0 -
I feel like I am at an expository writing convention.0
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could be worse, it could be a trekkie/otaku convention with a cosplay component.uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »I feel like I am at an expository writing convention.
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could be worse, it could be a trekkie/otaku convention with a cosplay component.uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »I feel like I am at an expository writing convention.
One minute I am arguing with a lawyer over semantics and the next I am weighting someone elses cat while another person rants on about baggy clothing.
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gotta love the internet where we're all lawyers who are in MMA, experts at Wii Fit, driving, physics, climate science, and fashion.
LOL.0 -
uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »I disagree. Education does not automatically grant commitment or access. You could provide free nutrition classes to people in inner city food deserts but that won't make produce beyond a McDonald's salad just magically appear in a really stores.
What are you even going on about at this point? I said true education teaches people how to apply knowledge, it doesn't give them the absolute ability to do so. You're going way off on a tangent now. When I said someone must be able to apply it, I meant it as an attribute trait, not the physical ability of applying it.
And I said simply that I disagree that education is the whole answer, and demonstrated how this is so in two different ways. Education is not the whole answer
I am going based on the average person who has access to internet and a computer and the ability to afford primary life needs. Lets take weight loss and change the subject to aerospace engineering. First you have to learn about how rockets fly and the process of building one, then you have to apply that knowledge in practice by building a rocket that flies. If you were taught the knowledge and HOW to apply that knowledge, you'll build a successful rocket. You can't come in here and say, "Well, what about people who can't afford the parts to build a rocket?"
I get it. There are people who are in circumstances in which they cannot apply their knowledge because they got screwed over in life. My point is, you are more likely to find people who have lost weight and kept it off long term that knew what they were doing. You are less likely to find people who lost weight and kept it off long term who knew jack **** about exercising or calorie management. Education isn't only about what you learn in a classroom. It is built through experience and trial and error. One does not become educated by sitting through a 1 hour seminar.
You don't need to turn into a lawyer over here.
No law degree necessary. This is very simple. You said education was the whole answer. I said it isn't. I proved my point. Twice. Let it go.
You didn't prove a point, you used outliers as evidence. For most people, knowledge and the application of that knowledge will lead to success. There will always be people who are unable to apply it due to outstanding circumstances but I am talking to people who, I assume, aren't living on the streets of Detroit. Sure I made a mistake and talked in absolutes, which I shouldn't have done, but you didn't have to get into the semantics of it.
However you feel, I hope you're able to get back on track! Happy Thanksgiving.
Or unwilling.
People who lose weight do so through education. It does not logically follow that educating people regarding weight loss or nutrition will cause them to lose weight or eat healthy. There has to be motivation and access.
Otherwise, why do we have so many smokers when there are rampant warnings and commercials and educational materials showing the effects of smoking?
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uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »GwynHannay wrote: »Regarding animals and how they manage to maintain their own weight - I find that very confusing! As someone mentioned earlier, I also have two cats, and while one of them is tubby, the other one is thin as a rail. We increase their food, they eat more, their weights don't change. We decrease their food, they eat less, their weights still don't change.
The tubby one was starved when she was younger. We rescued her from an abusive and negligent home and she quickly fattened up in our care. But I have no idea how to get the weight off her. We're already feeding both cats according to their size and her tummy just doesn't budge.
I would like to say that I have a fair amount of knowledge regarding calories and macros and even the psychology of eating food for comfort to an extent, but the case study of my two adorable kitties confuses the whole weight loss issue for me.
Does anyone have any insight? (P.S. Totally off-topic, of course... :-) )
Proportionally, a 1 pound change for a cat would be like a 20 pound change for a human (or something like that...) You might not really notice any weight change but it could be happening.
Do you actually weight your cats? Is the fat one takin' the other one's food?
Most fat cats are around 15-20 lbs. so 1 lb would be a pretty significant ratio of their total body weight.
My Italian greyhound is about the weight of a fat cat (although a great deal taller...he's all leg and chest and pointy nose.) He's about 18 lbs., although very lean, and when he became ill he lost 3 lbs and it was a really big deal. Fortunately, his issue was fixed and he's back to 18 lbs (and possibly an extra now that he's getting old, he's getting a little muffin top around the hips.)
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