Sugar - possibly the easiest thing to cut back on for weight loss!
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Isn't it the middle of the night in America now?0
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christinev297 wrote: »Isn't it the middle of the night in America now?
Pretty much.
Time to watch some Muppets...0 -
You lot are night owls
It's 4pm Friday afternoon here in Oz 0 -
Let us just not ever use the word again as it trigers the mother of black hole threadsGingerbreadCandy wrote: »What the– I let this sit for a day, and I come back to 315 new replies. Did someone start claiming sugar is heroine again or what happened?
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baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Someone needs "evidence" for how they feel? What a silly board.baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »miketoryan wrote: »miketoryan wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »miketoryan wrote: »miketoryan wrote: »fiber isn't absorbed in the stomach or intestines.
Are you sure about that?
positive, with the caveat that the fermentation process in the colon does provide the body some energy, but it's a small amount, and I normally stick to mostly insoluble fiber anyway so I'm not worried about a couple grams of carbs getting into my body from soluble fiber.
Gotta get that quick edit / wikipedia copy & paste in
i'm not an idiot. i know the net calories isn't zero, but my total carbs is still under 30 grams a day. every gram of fiber isn't equal to a gram of starches or sugar, it doesn't cause a spike in insulin, it doesn't make me overeat, and it doesn't give me acid reflux like starches and sugar, so why would i care about 10-20 grams of fiber in my diet? we're talking inconsequential effects on my body.
unless sharting myself to do death is a thing that i haven't encountered yet
You sure about that? "personally i eliminated sugar all together" "my total carbs is still under 30 grams a day"
And who cares about insulin spikes, protein is highly insulinogenic
Yea, agree. There's a bunch of confusion within him.
i don't get it. you asked me if i completely eliminated carbohydrates and i told you i try to eat some fiber and there are incidental carbohydrates in a lot of food (such as nuts) and you say that's confusing. i still eliminated almost all the sugars. how is that confusing? you asked me if i eliminated them all and i wrote back that i eliminated all but a few that i get incidentally.
still confused?
He's being obtuse, because... there are sugars in veggies and fruits. You must say "I eliminated added sugars"... because semantics.
And that would be equally dumb, since the context was the elimination or non elimination of "sugar" reduced to eliminated cravings. So are you implying only added sugars cause cravings?
That depends entirely on who you ask, now doesn't it.
of course, there are those that live in reality and those that live in a fantasy world where all sorts of magical things happen
Fantasy world? Speaking of yourself?
For me, added sugars cause cravings. For others, it's other kinds of carbohydrates. Some people have no issues with cravings at all. That is how it is in "Reality Land" where I live. You should visit it sometime. Nice place.
So only added sugars cause cravings, how do you isolate that against all the other sugars in said product? And how does added sucrose differ from naturally occurring sucrose? Since n=1 are there any studies with large sample sizes that have found this to be true as well?
"For me, added sugars cause cravings. For others, it's other kinds of carbohydrates. Some people have no issues with cravings at all. That is how it is in "Reality Land" where I live. You should visit it sometime. Nice place."
Where in that did I say that "only added sugars cause cravings"?
FOR ME, the more foods with added sugars I consume, the more of them I crave. I no longer eat these foods; I no longer crave them. Fruit is complete "meh." I couldn't possibly care less about fruit, never have. Higher carbohydrate foods with natural sugars don't cause me to crave them obsessively. Even ones with low amounts of added sugars don't bother me as much (bread), but things like cakes and cookies, which have both and often higher added sugars, I used to crave a lot.
As I'm unlikely to have the funds to hire out scientists and a lab any time soon to evaluate extensively various affects each sugar has on my body, I'll have to settle with employing the powers of human observation and deductive reasoning to solve my problems.
I'm not the only human who has this issue with craving different foods. Whether or not the results of my personal experiment belong in a peer-reviewed journal, it is as it is.
I avoid added sugars, so I don't overeat them, so I'm in control, so I stay in a deficit, so I lose weight. Is there a problem with that? What? Calorie deficit is occurring? Well, everything is right with the universe then! Carry on, MFP! The universe is in balance.
So you do live in a fantasy world, where you've eliminated all possible confounders to determine it's the added sugars are the things that are causing cravings. Anecdotes =/= evidence, if you're going to make such a silly claim you should be able to back it up
Back it up with what, precisely? I have no scientists on retainer. Reality is the world where I am 70lbs lighter and have not eaten my trigger foods once and I have no cravings. How do you scientifically quantify "craving" anyway? If you'd like to fund the research about one human being, be my guest. It wouldn't be accurate. Sample-size too small, no control. Fantasy world is the one wherein your argument isn't absurd. Nice trolling though.
Whose argument is absurd? The one who claimed added sugars caused them cravings and backed it with zero evidence?
Malbec wines give me migraines. Do I need to provide you with evidence of that?
You as well, they don't need evidence for how they feel, if you actually read what was written she claimed added sugars caused cravings, I simply asked how she determined that and controlled for various confounders
I gave you your answer. But let's rehash.
I stopped eating the added-sugar foods. I already determined, from my observations of my eating habits, that foods with natural sugars only do not cause those "cravings" (feelings). (Which I did say a few posts up in that quote-maze-from-hell.) I started eating keto. I stopped eating the foods I suspected triggered cravings; the cravings stopped. I have continued for 6 months eating at keto macros and eliminating those foods. The cravings have not returned. Cravings that plagued me and fueled binges for 17 years. I haven't written a paper on it. There is no evidence I could produce to you that you would accept in any case. And had I a personal lab crew who submitted a study to a peer-reviewed publication, and it somehow magically met the criteria for significance and accuracy, you would still refute it.
Now if you actually wanted to analyze my experience further, you could criticize that the increase in protein and fat, to offset the decrease in carbs, had a role to play. Perhaps. The phase of the experiment in which I increase natural-sugar carbs while still restricting added sugars is an investigation I'm leaving for maintenance. Perhaps, further out, I will be satisfied with my data for that phase and add back added sugars. Or not. At any rate, I still have weight to lose. What I'm currently doing is working, (no cravings, no binges) and I remain at a deficit, so I'm satisfied with my current progress and am content to leave that data-gathering for a later time. After all correlation does not equal causation. But from the data gleaned thus far, it's looking like added-sugar foods do have a link with cravings. For me. Proving causation is a trickier beast and will require more information over time. We may never achieve anything greater than an extremely strong correlation. But in practical application, which is real life, I'm not overeating for the first time in 17 years. And calorie deficit is the important result I am aiming to achieve. There is something to be said for results. How I personally achieve them is really irrelevant in the scheme of things. We don't walk around our whole lives in a scientific paper.
How's that?
I'm not finding any studies yet that confirm this phenomenon in large sample sizes, however. I suppose that my experiences haven't happened since there is no study. Oh well. I'll keep at it and keep losing weight without being plagued by the annoyance of the uncontrollable feeling like I need to rabidly binge constantly. Maybe one day it will be validated by a panel of scientists, but soon I'll hit maintenance and continue the next great experiment. In any case, I'll keep living my life, following this current plan, and I'll be healthy and a healthy weight. Wins, scientific validation or no.
Well, it all makes perfect sense to me, and as I'm the one who's satisfaction matters here, that's that. I'm off to do something productive. Like let Jillian Michaels try to kill me. Have a fine remainder of your day, perhaps despite some bleeding you may be experiencing from your eyes as the result of reading the answer you desired.
Yes, Sabine. This is a silly, silly board.
Here’s your argument, I ate foods that contained “added sugars” and they caused cravings. I cut them out and the cravings stopped. Therefore, “added sugars” cause cravings.
LOL
First how does added sucrose differ from naturally occurring sucrose, please be specific. Then how did you pinpoint "added sugar" as the culprit of your cravings? Was "Sugar" the only different compound in foods that made you have cravings and foods that did not cause cravings? If not, how did you determine that none of the different compounds or combination of compounds in the foods that gave you cravings vs those that did not, were not responsible?
Oh good, more nonsense. Well, enjoy that. I've reached my nonsense quota for today. I'll get back to you after 6mo or so when I've received all my data. And achieved my sexypants. Or not. In the meantime you should enjoy the creature comforts afforded you by your kitchen in your troll-cave nestled snuggly in your fantasy world. I'm not feeding you any more.
Do be a dear, though, and send that crack team of scientists and the key to the lab (which you are funding with the massive winnings from all your MFP bingos and your dividends from being an active member of the Shirtless-Brethren) before you go so we can get started on the research ASAP. Because the world is depending on us.
Lol
And what's even funnier is 5 people felt butt hurt by this (I'm having a good guess who).
I also love the maturity of the one person who flags Deirdre's post (purely because they disagree with what she is saying).
Maybe it should be renamed from the 'flag' button to the 'butt hurt' button!
Remember guys is there for a reason - so if you do have to use it, make sure you do it in moderation!-2 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I've eliminated any other non-glutinous foods that I enjoy eating in the past, binged, and was unsuccessful.
Here's my basic problem with your position.
You gave up gluten because it caused an abnormal reaction in your body -- you crap yourself. No gluten, problem solved. YOU = +1, QFT, BACKED BY SCIENCE (even though you self-diagnosed)!
I gave up desserts because they caused an abnormal reaction in my body -- I binged on them. No desserts, problem solved. ME = special snowflake! gif sh*tstorm! LAZY! LACK OF WILLPOWER!
And before you flip out that you never said lazy, rest assured that I'm expanding my argument to include the rest of your ilk.
When someone posts a thread saying "Help! I am addicted to sugar! Should I eliminate it?," said ilk is "all ORLY?" and "tell me how your apple addiction is going?"
First of all, frutose is not sucrose. They are two different chemical compounds that belong to the same family.
Second, it should be patently obvious to you that when people are complaining of sugar addiction, they are talking about Oreos and pasta bars, not fructose. They are talking about foods, not isolated chemical compounds, that are most likely made of sugar, flour and fat. To jump from "sugar" to "fructose" and then raise your battlefield flag there is disingenuous at best.
Third, when people eat food, all kinds of interesting things happen in the body and the brain, including the brain receiving signals that the stomach is full. That you can't conceive of the possibility that in some people, those signals might be messed up and cause binging instead of satiety is just the worst kind of intellectual dishonesty.
You do know fructose is one half of sucrose right? And that sucrose is also in fruit? Also, interesting that you mention fat as part of the "binge foods." Yet you're still insistent to put the blame squarely on sugar. Fascinating cognitive dissonance there.0 -
tigersword wrote: »You do know fructose is one half of sucrose right? And that sucrose is also in fruit? Also, interesting that you mention fat as part of the "binge foods." Yet you're still insistent to put the blame squarely on sugar. Fascinating cognitive dissonance there.
OMG. I'm not blaming anything on sugar, you are.
Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
But we never get to get to that point, do we, because you immediately pollute the OP's question with your obsessive and completely unwarranted fixation on fructose.
You completely miss the OP's point, you direct the conversation IMMEDIATELY to fructose, and then you point the finger at us for being obsessed with sugar.
That's a brilliant logical mind, right there.-2 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »tigersword wrote: »You do know fructose is one half of sucrose right? And that sucrose is also in fruit? Also, interesting that you mention fat as part of the "binge foods." Yet you're still insistent to put the blame squarely on sugar. Fascinating cognitive dissonance there.
OMG. I'm not blaming anything on sugar, you are.
Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are addicted to Pixie Sticks.
But we never get to get to that point, do we, because you immediately pollute the OP's question with your obsessive and completely unwarranted fixation on fructose.
You completely miss the OP's point, you direct the conversation IMMEDIATELY to fructose, and then you point the finger at us for being obsessed with sugar.
That's a brilliant logical mind, right there.
You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.0 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »Way to hang in there Ana and Sabine - nice staying power.
I'm on holiday. :drinker:
(and a bit stubborn when someone is sure what's right for everyone else, as I wholeheartedly support the OP's goal)0 -
girlviernes wrote: »So my experience, just to chime in since if there is an actual food/sugar addict, that would be me - 20 years of binge eating and fixation on sweet foods (as in, if they were there, hard not to think about them, going back and forth from candy jar all day, and over the course of the day being able to go through a multiple boxes of cookies and candies).
Three years ago I cut out all added sugar and went very "clean" and "unprocessed" It worked great, I lost cravings for sugary foods and lost 45 lbs, BUT, when I did occasionally have something off my plan it felt very compulsive and hard to stop. Like I was on the edge of failing. Eventually those going-off-plan moments came more and more frequently until I pretty much reverted to my old habits all together and regained all of the weight.
This time around is similar in that I've drastically reduced sugary and snack type foods, but if I want them I will have them. This has been a small miracle for me. My fixation on sweet foods is basically gone. When I do have something (about every 1-2 weeks it is a small portion and I'm completely satisfied, e.g., a couple of days ago I had a sample lindor truffle). I was at a party last night with lots of christmas cookies, looked at them but my desire to eat them was about 2/10 and simply did not. No feelings of deprivation.
For me I truly believe making big changes to my dietary makeup has helped hugely. Perhaps it is so important because I have insulin resistance. At any rate, limiting added sugar type foods is just so helpful, but at the same time, eating that way most of the time leaves me with the ability to vary when I want to. Tracking my food is helpful there too as it allows for more flexibility while still knowing I will lose weight. The other factor which I personally hypothesize has made a big difference is upping my dietary fat levels.
Well done on figuring out what works for you!0 -
You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
They may not be lazy or weak willed but certainly you could call them ignorant. If someone says they are addicted to sugar, they should know what sugar actually is, right? Again you're bringing up fructose when that never has anything to do with any of the "sugar addict" threads, why?
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.0 -
I thought her reference to fructose made perfect sense. It has everything to do with every thread on limiting added sugars.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
They may not be lazy or weak willed but certainly you could call them ignorant. If someone says they are addicted to sugar, they should know what sugar actually is, right? Again you're bringing up fructose when that never has anything to do with any of the "sugar addict" threads, why?
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
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A better title for this thread would be... "Sugar, one of many things to cut back on for weight loss..."0
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GuitarJerry wrote: »The problem is behavioral.
But then the broader question becomes do certain food stuff have the ability or more likelihood of being able to trigger compulsive (as opposed to addictive) behaviour than others - and we find ourselves at hyperpalatability.
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GuitarJerry wrote: »So, after skimming, what I'm taking away from this is that sugar is not the problem at all. The problem is behavioral.
+10
This discussion has been closed.
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