Sugar - possibly the easiest thing to cut back on for weight loss!

One thing to think about is why do we have taste buds? For sweet, for salt, for sour, etc. really if things all tasted the same would we still have these issues?
Food for thought... one of my co workers decided to give her 6 month old son some exposure to different foods. He was humming along trying the carrots, then the beans, loves bananas... applesauce loves it... so she thought she would give him a bit of avocado, she said it was instantly rejected, his tongue went out, he gave her the eye and spit it all out all over the place. Now whether that is just human nature, who knows??

LCloops wrote: »

One thing to think about is why do we have taste buds? For sweet, for salt, for sour, etc. really if things all tasted the same would we still have these issues?
Food for thought... one of my co workers decided to give her 6 month old son some exposure to different foods. He was humming along trying the carrots, then the beans, loves bananas... applesauce loves it... so she thought she would give him a bit of avocado, she said it was instantly rejected, his tongue went out, he gave her the eye and spit it all out all over the place. Now whether that is just human nature, who knows??

Depends on the human. My mini human has loved avocada since the first time she's tried it. But will not touch eggs or potatoes.

girlviernes wrote: »

baconslave wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

newmeadow wrote: »

tigersword wrote: »

None of the foods people binge on in this thread (that have been mentioned) get all (or even most) of their calories from sugar.

Maybe we missed a few: Custard stuffed eclairs, Peanut M&Ms, blueberry pie with whipped cream, Pizza with pepperoni, sausage, meatballs onions and peppers, linguine with clams, butter toffee with cashews, mint chocolate chip ice cream, Brigham's hot fudge, vanilla layer cake with lemon cream frosting, Godiva, Chinese pork fried rice, buttered toast with cinnamon, Twinkies, Ding Dongs, Hohos, Suzy Qs, Duck Rillette on French bread, crème caramel, kielbasa stuffed potato rolls, ravioli, Italian Chicken sandwich from Burger King, crispy onion rings, Gorton's breaded fish sticks, OreIda Crispers, etc.

Okay okay it's not sugar that makes every one of these divine foods worthy of a glutton party. There's plenty 'o wheat flour here. Plenty indeed. But don't they both break down as sugar. I mean, scientifically that is. Sorry, I can't find my peer reviewed citations.

I don't give myself a half a cup of M&Ms and say deal with it Newmeadow. Not interested. If I'm not eating a gallon sized plastic Halloween pumpkin tote full of candy and falling blissfully into a lovely sugar induced euphoric semi comatose state, I DON'T WANT IT.

It's all or NOTHING.

I suspect the point was that there's fat plus sugar or fat plus salt in the usual suspects.

Like I've pointed out, the main source of calories in a typical cookie (at least based on my recipe) is butter. The flour is second, yet people who usually go on about sugar being addictive frequently don't claim to binge on plain bread (although obviously some people do).

Your list tends to me to support this point.

It's often sometimes claimed by low carb advocates that people binge only on carbs, not fat or protein--the argument is made that one won't overeat if one sticks to low carb. I think this might be true for some people and that low carb can be a good strategy. It's absolutely not true for me. I might accidently overeat pasta because I misjudge portion size or get a restaurant meal and think it's super tasty (invariably mostly because of the sauce), but I was kind of surprised when I first heard people say they would "binge on" plain bread or cereal or pasta (I always assumed people overate bread because you get it in situations that make portion control difficult, like when hungry before a meal). On the other hand, I won't eat 'til I'm stuffed on anything really (seems unpleasant), but I can most certainly overconsume calories very easily with meat and I used to do it all the time with cheese.

I find lowering carbs to be a good strategy for me because it makes me more mindful and fits with how I prefer to eat, but not because it prevents overeating. (I think it may do that for some people who overeat due to perceived hunger or cravings.)

I really think that this is the crux of the thing. Which explains why many people don't have trouble with the sugar in fruit. Or don't just binge on butter sticks. It's the hyperpalatability of the combinations of sugar and fat, and salt and fat, that causes the issues.

I don't binge apples. But I will eat a whole lot of them if they are covered in peanut butter.
And chocolates and cookies are sugar plus fat.

My hubby's aunt doesn't binge sweets. She binges chips. Fat plus salt. Hubs, on his occasional few-and-far-between snacks are fat and salt as well.

So it isn't the sugar per se. It's the sugar and fat coupled together. And it's the response to palatability (taste). Hmmm...something to think about.

I think it's probably both, hyperpalateability definitely seems to have effects on overeating, but given the prevalence of undiagnosed insulin resistance, I think specifically eating patterns that result in glucose spikes will be problematic in those people.

Which of course is another reason why the sugar in fruit is often not problematic - there is a low glycemic load.

My personal theory--such as it is--is that insulin spikes are more relevant to an overall pattern of eating than overeating on specific foods. If you have a problem with insulin and eat a higher carb diet, you will be generally feeling hungry, more likely to experience cravings, etc. I'm not insulin resistant, but like many I can mimic this somewhat if I eat refined carbs alone to create a situation where the blood sugar seems to spike and crash, so that one gets hungry not long after eating and feels the need of a pick-me-up, that tired, low energy feeling.

I think feeling tired/low energy/hungry makes you less able to resist treats (the willpower thing again), but I'm not sure it makes sense to me that it would make you keep eating them. The latter seems more related to taste and some other form of satisfaction from it. Plus the psychological issues. Also, more practically, my experience was that once I was overweight I tended to overeat more, since easier to think it wouldn't make much difference anyway, might as well have that additional cookie.

But I am open to other ideas, of course.

Executive function includes the ability to:

• manage time and attention
• switch focus
• plan and organize
• remember details
• curb inappropriate speech or behavior
• integrate past experience with present action

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/guide/executive-function

ndj1979 wrote: »

Mr_Knight wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

Mr_Knight wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

I guess the common sense part of me says, why do you need a study to determine that if you show people chocolate chip cookies and make them eat radishes they will be pissed.

I guess the common sense part of me says, if willpower was unlimited, there'd be no reason to get pissed if they get radishes instead of chocolate.

so if you have willpower you can't be angry at being forced to eat radishes instead of cookies? I don't really see how one ties into another...

Being pissed off - like "binging" - is just a different way for describing a loss of self control. People with high degrees of willpower rarely binge, and rarely get pissed off. That so many people binge and/or get pissed off so regularly is an indicator that willpower is a limited resource.

It's all part of the same package..

...that sounds like a natural reaction that anyone would have.

Bingo...just like, under certain conditions, binging....

interesting ...

There's a reason the first step in AA is an admission of no control....

Mr_Knight wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

Mr_Knight wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

I guess the common sense part of me says, why do you need a study to determine that if you show people chocolate chip cookies and make them eat radishes they will be pissed.

I guess the common sense part of me says, if willpower was unlimited, there'd be no reason to get pissed if they get radishes instead of chocolate.

so if you have willpower you can't be angry at being forced to eat radishes instead of cookies? I don't really see how one ties into another...

Being pissed off - like "binging" - is just a different way for describing a loss of self control. People with high degrees of willpower rarely binge, and rarely get pissed off. That so many people binge and/or get pissed off so regularly is an indicator that willpower is a limited resource.

It's all part of the same package..

...that sounds like a natural reaction that anyone would have.

Bingo...just like, under the right conditions, binging....

Very Interesting... But I am way more likely to get pissed off at eating radishes when shown cookies over actually binging on cookies.

NHANES data for the first one, at least that has shown to be remotely accurate. Oh wait it's shown to be essentially worthless due to it's inaccuracy

Your next link is the Avena rat study? Are humans now rodents? Is the 12on/12off feeding protocol remotely similar to human eating behavior?

Drinking soda is associated with obesity? Also really weird sugar consumption peaked around '99, what happened to obesity rates since?

"But some people do, and there is scientific evidence backing up their experience."

LOL

Try again
(reposted so my reply would show. I couldn't get it to post with all the quotes)

If people need double-blind studies to know something, they can google it. They come to MFP threads for the personal experiences of people who have successfully lost weight and maintained that loss (hence the name of this thread "..for weight loss". Note the thread is not aimed at recompers. If you find the assertion that sugar is easily eliminated, and that elimination can lead to weight loss offensive, there is no reason at all for you to be in this thread, so you can avoid all the aggravation).

And millions of people have successfully lost weight by limiting sugars. Not your experience, I understand, but please understand that other people can experience different things than you. That does not make it ok to belittle and LOL them.

However, if you need studies to believe that some people who are trying to lose weight have an easier time when they limit added sugar:

http://www.andjrnl.org/article/0002-8223(94)90155-4/abstract?cc=y
Done on humans. Amount of total sugar in diet did not predict obesity, amount of added sugar did.

http://ucdirc.ucdavis.edu/people/papers/pelchat_johnson_etal_NI2004.pdf
Human subjects. Images showing changes in the brain related to craving food. Scientific proof that food cravings exist.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/26/19/5160.short
Human subjects. MRIs showing brain differences in responses to images of food (i.e. chocolate cake). Cravings - different people respond to the reward pathways differently

Pan A, Hu FB. Effects of carbohydrates on satiety: differences between liquid and solid food. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2011;14:385-90.
Sugar-added drinks in paticular add calories, but do not affect hunger. Drinking a sugary drink will not lower the rest of the day's calories. Conversely, replacing that soda with water in one's diet does not increase the rest of the day's calories. The sucrose adds calories, not nutrition, and 0 satisfaction.

http://www.banpac.org/pdfs/sfs/2011/sodas_cont_obesity_2_01_11.pdf
"All lines of evidence consistently support the conclusion that the consumption of sweetened beverages has contributed to the obesity epidemic. It is estimated that sweetened beverages account for at least one-fifth of the weight gained between 1977 and 2007 in the US population."

Don't worry that people who limit their added sugar during a diet won't be able to keep it up long-term. A dieter's sense of taste adapts. When someone regularly eats a lot of sweetened food, they will prefer sweet. After experiencing some time with less sucrose in their diet, their taste changes to less sweet. This is one reason eliminating and reducing sugar, even if it is temporary, can lead to better diet habits in the long run.
Sweet and sour preferences in young children and adults: role of repeated exposure.
Liem DG, de Graaf C
Physiol Behav. 2004 Dec 15; 83(3):421-9.

There is substantial scientific evidence that food cravings exist. There is substantial scientific evidence that added sugar causes weight gain based on how it affects metabolism and saiety. Added sugars can be safely reduced without getting rid of neccesary nutrients, and without an inevitable binge. Reducing added sugars for a period of time will retrain a dieter's tastes, so that it will be easier to resist sweets in the future, in the "real world". OP wins.

Not everyone gets cravings. Those who don't may not be the best positioned to give advise to those that do. They certainly aren't entitled to dismiss the experiences of those who have successfully gotten through cravings and reduced body fat.

I'm concerned about your need to belittle and dismiss the experiences of others. You may want to talk to a specialist about that. Good luck with your recomp journey

baconslave wrote: »

Kalikel wrote: »

Dierdre isn't debating. She's
How?

It varies by person. I overate and binged.

So here's the first step:
You get an overwhelming urge to eat yourself to death or to get a third helping, try to catch yourself and pause. Ask "why?" Why am I doing this? Am I hungry? If no, what thoughts preceded the urge (or situation or actions)? Are you bored, sad, angry, lonely? Take note of the causes and see if there is any particular food that you go to in these situations. Figure out the why. Figure out the tool you reach for as a response.

Next, figure out the HOW. How am I going to get a grip on this? Changes must be deliberate and consistent. Every time stop yourself. Tell yourself, "I don't need this. I need..." and then figure out coping strategies. Bored? Sad? Mad? Lonely? Go distract, or cut off, that thought with an action you find interesting, absorbing, or fun. Do something productive, workout, text a friend, read, watch a movie. Something that will lift you up and get you out of the kitchen. Over time, you will retrain yourself in how you respond to the stimulus that requires you to reach out for too much. But you must be vigilant and consistent.

Something else that helps people is to not have trigger foods in the house. Others to have them in pre-portioned snack sizes, or even to have "dessert days." There's always trigger foods in my face. Once I divorced myself from the "why," and employed my "how" which was choosing a portion-restricting food plan (keto), which is the dreaded elimination (and I don't even miss it. Pfft. I do what I WANT!), I just looked at the trigger food and said, "I want that. But it doesn't fit my macros. Is it worth it? Nope. Eyes on tha prize" and walked on by. I make cookies and cakes for the kids on their dessert day and made them chocolate chip pancakes this morning. Watched them eating it. I'm not even mad. No longer phases me.

The more you resist, when eating the food is contrary, at that time, to your limits and/or macros/calories, and the more you employ your strategies, the stronger you will become at resisting. You fail and give in? Get right back up? The next meal.

You only really fail if you give up. So don't give up. Couple your discovery of "why" and "how" with your fierce grit. With time, this will get you where you need to be. Is this easy, because reading it may sound simple? For some, no. Now I can say it's super easy. I don't even want that stuff most of the time. That took strategy and determination. That took consistent, deliberate choices. Every meal of every day.

this! i thing you have give many great strategies that i actually use for my self, it may sound silly but asking yourself those things has help me a lottt