Hamstring Vs Quad strength

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  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    Just use the right stance. Adjust width, foot angle.
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
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    dbmata wrote: »
    Just use the right stance. Adjust width, foot angle.

    Yes, find what works for you; I like to turn my feet out slightly.

    Also, I would definitely recommend a tried and true program. If you don't have access to equipment, have you thought about a body weight program such as you are your own gym or convict conditioning?

    It sounds like you know have enough experience with working out to design your own program, and it seems like you have very little strength, and doing a few exercises here and there likely won't help with the problem. I'd definitely recommend a program that someone else designed, and for a well balanced program with limited equipment, body weight is going to be your best bet.
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
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    auddii wrote: »
    dbmata wrote: »
    Just use the right stance. Adjust width, foot angle.

    Yes, find what works for you; I like to turn my feet out slightly.

    Also, I would definitely recommend a tried and true program. If you don't have access to equipment, have you thought about a body weight program such as you are your own gym or convict conditioning?

    It sounds like you know have enough experience with working out to design your own program, and it seems like you have very little strength, and doing a few exercises here and there likely won't help with the problem. I'd definitely recommend a program that someone else designed, and for a well balanced program with limited equipment, body weight is going to be your best bet.
    Thanks for the suggestion. Prior to getting the machine I'm using (was recently given to me by a friend), I was actually thinking of doing a simple bodyweight program.
    My short term goals are just to improve posture, gain some strength, and put on a few pounds of muscle. I'm sure at some later point I may consider doing things more aggressively with a better setup, but right now I'm content to just be able to improve my posture/strength imbalances and have my upper body filled in some.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
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    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    dbmata wrote: »
    Just use the right stance. Adjust width, foot angle.

    Yes, find what works for you; I like to turn my feet out slightly.

    Also, I would definitely recommend a tried and true program. If you don't have access to equipment, have you thought about a body weight program such as you are your own gym or convict conditioning?

    It sounds like you know have enough experience with working out to design your own program, and it seems like you have very little strength, and doing a few exercises here and there likely won't help with the problem. I'd definitely recommend a program that someone else designed, and for a well balanced program with limited equipment, body weight is going to be your best bet.
    Thanks for the suggestion. Prior to getting the machine I'm using (was recently given to me by a friend), I was actually thinking of doing a simple bodyweight program.
    My short term goals are just to improve posture, gain some strength, and put on a few pounds of muscle. I'm sure at some later point I may consider doing things more aggressively with a better setup, but right now I'm content to just be able to improve my posture/strength imbalances and have my upper body filled in some.

    Based on your specific information a "tried-and-true" program might not actually be best for you. A lack of strength in your lower back muscles, glutes, and hamstrings can very well be an issue and you need somebody to help you with something more specifics. This is definitely not something squats and DL's is going to fix and most "T&T" programs only include those two for lower body. If you have access to a gym and there is a trainer that is NASM - CES or PES certified you may want to pay for a few sessions with them.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    To the advice above of designing your own program, based on what you have to use, might have a look at this.

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Instructions.html

    Probably Full Body option - then Legs, Push, Pull or Pull, Push, but legs first it sounds like.

    Under each muscle group, should be able to find some lift technique using what you've got.
  • MrGonzo05
    MrGonzo05 Posts: 1,120 Member
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    42
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
    edited December 2014
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    I found a weight resistance chart that I believe corresponds to the machine I'm using. At 20 pounds of weight, the actual weight resistance on that part of the pulley system is supposedly 42 pounds. At 50 pounds, the weight resistance is 78 pounds. That would mean my hamstring to quad ratio is more like 50-55% instead of the 40% I thought. Still, I think I should continue to train my hamstrings directly before adding in more quad work.
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,210 Member
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    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    my lifestyle has been quite sedentary for a few years. My guess is this has greatly contributed to my weak glutes/hamstrings.

    If you're following a normal, full-body program, without modifying it, your hams/glutes will get strong. I haven't seen any evidence that your hams/glutes need extra work. Your quads might be strong due to cycling, but that doesn't mean your hams/glutes need to catch up. And neither does anterior pelvic tilt, as was explained earlier.

  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    edited December 2014
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    Cherimoose wrote: »
    I haven't seen any evidence that your hams/glutes need extra work.

    There is an incredible amount of evidence, I don't know why people on MFP keeping saying that. Hamstring activity is present, albeit low in the squat; other exercises are better at improving hamstring strength. This isn't APA Format, feeling lazy here.

    William P. Ebben. Hamstring Activation During Lower Body Resistance Training Exercises. International Journal of Sports Physiology and Performance, 2009, 4, 84-96 © 2009 Human Kinetics, Inc.

    McKenzie L. Fauth1, Luke R. Garceau1, Brittney Lutsch1, Aaron Gray1, Chris Szalkowski1,Brad Wurm1, and William P. Ebben. HAMSTRINGS, QUADRICEPS, AND GLUTEAL MUSCLE ACTIVATION DURING RESISTANCE TRAINING EXERCISES. Source: International Symposium on Biomechanics in Sports: Conference Proceedings Archive Date: January 1, 201

    Clark, Dave R.1,3; Lambert, Mike I.2; Hunter, Angus M. Muscle Activation in the Loaded Free Barbell Squat: A Brief Review. Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research:April 2012 - Volume 26 - Issue 4 - p 1169–1178

    Kevin McCurdy, Erin O’Kelley, Matt Kutz, George Langford, James Ernest, and Marcos Torres. Comparison of Lower Extremity EMG Between the 2-Leg Squat and Modified Single-Leg Squat in Female Athletes. Journal of Sport Rehabilitation, 2010, 19, 57-70 © 2010 Human Kinetics, Inc.

    Joshua Gorsuch, Janey Long, Katie Miller, Kyle Primeau, Sarah Rutledge, Andrew Sossong, and John J. Durocher. THE EFFECT OF SQUAT DEPTH ON MUSCLE ACTIVATION IN MALE AND FEMALE CROSS-COUNTRY RUNNERS. Department of Physical Therapy, St. Francis University, Loretto, PA, USA
    but that doesn't mean your hams/glutes need to catch up. And neither does anterior pelvic tilt, as was explained earlier.

    It doesn't mean they don't need to catch-up either. Strength can be part of the issue. This poster really needs to see a professional on the subject-matter.
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,210 Member
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    I don't know what that list of references has to do with my post.

    I agree that the OP should get a proper assessment by a good personal trainer or a PT, since self-diagnosing doesn't work well without kinesiology knowledge.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,535 Member
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    Imbalance is common among a lot of daily gym goers. The "rears" are neglected alot because they aren't seen often. So hamstrings, calves, rear delts, low back are usually areas that get the most neglect.
    What most people don't realize is that imbalance may be the reason injuries occurs. For example one might have great quads and mediocre hamstrings. Pulled hamstrings are common in this case.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
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    Cherimoose wrote: »
    I agree that the OP should get a proper assessment by a good personal trainer or a PT, since self-diagnosing doesn't work well without kinesiology knowledge.

    You said...
    I haven't seen any evidence that your hams/glutes need extra work
    . The references are the evidence that basically says although the hamstrings are involved in the squat, the activation is low and additional hamstring specific work is warranted. Not a lot but some.
    What most people don't realize is that imbalance may be the reason injuries occurs. For example one might have great quads and mediocre hamstrings. Pulled hamstrings are common in this case.

    Yes! Pulled hamstrings would be one of the better injuries one could hope for with poor hamstring strength. ACL injury is a major injury that can result from a lack of glute and / hamstring strength.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
    ACL injury is a major injury that can result from a lack of glute and / hamstring strength.
    That was what I was going to mention, along with potential damage to the mcl and lcl.
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,210 Member
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    Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
    You said...
    I haven't seen any evidence that your hams/glutes need extra work
    . The references are the evidence that basically says although the hamstrings are involved in the squat, the activation is low and additional hamstring specific work is warranted.

    I didn't mention squats, i recommended a full body program.. which normally includes exercises like deadlifts & lunges.

    If you're following a normal, full-body program, without modifying it, your hams/glutes will get strong.

  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
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    Cherimoose wrote: »
    Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
    You said...
    I haven't seen any evidence that your hams/glutes need extra work
    . The references are the evidence that basically says although the hamstrings are involved in the squat, the activation is low and additional hamstring specific work is warranted.

    I didn't mention squats, i recommended a full body program.. which normally includes exercises like deadlifts & lunges.

    If you're following a normal, full-body program, without modifying it, your hams/glutes will get strong.

    Perhaps I shouldn't have assumed squats but when full-body is being discussed that's the usual prescription.
  • journalistjen
    journalistjen Posts: 265 Member
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    Oh Geez! Thank you all for the great info. I thought I was of the few screwed up people. I have had issues with the knees for a while. I thought maybe it was just from being overweight for so long, weak muscles in and surrounding the knees, or playing catcher when I was young. Whenever I completely bend my knees, it's like I can hear cartilage--especially in my left knee. I've always had one hip/leg more flexible than the other. I have extremely high arches--so my pronation has always been weird.

    I've had issues going low enough on squats. I had done a lot of reading. Some say that everyone's frame can't move the same way--some folks have to have a wider stance. Others say just go low, and eventually the muscles in and surrounding the knees will strengthen.

    Maybe--it's a little bit of everything with me--too much tightness, imbalance, weak core, etc.

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