carbs are my enemy
Options
Replies
-
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »tigersword wrote: »Exception, the difference when you cut out carbs is amazing and your body thanks you for it and punishes you for lapsing. I have had a social weekend eating at Chinese restaurants and at a friend's home and I have had the worst time trying to sleep. My head hurts, I feel foggy and I can't wait to return to normal eating. I am actually craving healthy food. Now please people, don't tell me there is no such thing as good or bad food because I will give you the address of this restaurant and you can check it out for yourselves.
Rachylouise, I hope you are still hanging in there in amongst all the "interesting discussions" about shifting weight and goodness know what. For the record, in Australia we use the term "shift" in relation to weight as well.
Funny, that's how I feel after a day of NOT eating carbs. Might be something to do with it being our primary food source for the last few million years...
The funny thing about all this is that I limit carbs myself. I'm a moderate carber, I feel best if I keep them around 100g (net) a day and get them mostly from beans and dairy rather than grains. But that's just me. I have autoimmune conditions and a generally inflammatory bunch of nonsense to deal with, so I eat to feel well and eat what I enjoy.
I feel as fine as I ever did on super low carb. In fact, I'm in less pain now because I exercise. I'm more satisfied with my food than I was on super low carb. I don't crave the stuff I don't eat either. If I do want something I don't normally eat, I have a small amount of it and then go on with my normal way of eating and I feel fine.
The only difference in my life now is that I eat less than I ate before coming to MFP. There's my problem with some of the low carbers in this thread. There's no magic to cutting carbs. If you feel better eating that way for whatever reason? More power to you. That's great. But for weight loss? It's still all about how many low-carb calories you're eating.
Haha. It is funny. I am super low carb. I eat about 18g of carbs a day (that's my max unless I exercise and eat back some). I still have to eat at a deficit to lose weight. There's no magic here.
Although, I have to admit as a hypoglycemic who suffered for a good while..it feels like magic. But that's just because I feel amazing now compared to before. Not because magic..but because my pancreas doesn't have much to overreact to anymore and my blood glucose isn't dropping into the 50s on a daily basis.
@blktngldhrt I have a question for you… I, too, am hypoglycemic. I overproduce insulin which causes my blood sugar to crash. I used to eat 200+ grams of carbs and my blood glucose was going from 160 to 40 mg/dL in less than 45 minutes. I have cut back tremendously and typically eat between 110-160 grams now. I am still experiencing crashes so I know I need to cut back more. However, every time I try to eat below 75 grams, I am dizzy, weak, confused, shaky, and feel like I'm going to pass out if I don't eat or drink something high in carbs. If I do not eat at least 100 grams of carbs, I cannot keep my blood glucose at a level which I can function normally. Did you experience this?
I'm going to completely throw a wrench in this, but I'll share my personal experience. I'm reactive hypoglycemic, and I had a period where I was going to "do the paleo diet", and I cut out a ton of carbs from my diet, although I think I was still getting 70-100g of carbs a day, so nothing super low. A few months later, I started having a lot of problems with hypoglycemic crashes and at times that completely didn't make sense. I'd eat 100g of chicken and some veggies for lunch, and I'd be shaking an hour later.
After a few weeks of that, I ended up going to the doctor, and my blood work all came back normal except my A1C was low, 4.5, which corresponded to me having all my crashes. The endocrinologist was also at a loss and put me on acarbose and had me test my blood every time before I drove, and she told me I wasn't allowed to drive unless my blood sugar was at least 70. That caused me to have to snack every time I drove anywhere, and it was just ridiculous. I'd eat a snack (usually candy + peanut butter crackers for immediate sugar and long term fats for sustaining the blood sugar) drive to the store, run in for 10 minutes, and my blood sugar would be back under 70 and I'd have to eat another snack to drive home.
The cycling made me miserable, and it wasn't sustainable. The endocrinologist gave up on me because all my hormone levels were normal. I went to a third doctor, who told me the endocrinologist was treating me like a diabetic even though I wasn't one. I stopped all the crazy snacking and she even told me to stop taking my blood sugars because it was just stressing me out. Her only advice was to go back to low carb.
At that point, I ignored all the doctors because I had done low carb before, and it seemed more like it caused the problem than helping it. So, I upped my carbs. I know I don't react well to carbs during the day because they do seem to make me feel like a crash more. So, I eat relatively low carb for breakfast and lunch, and then I usually try to have rice or a roll with dinner. A lot of nights I'll have ice cream after dinner too. My carb levels usually aren't super high or low really (just depends on what I do for dinner), I'd say usually 180-200ish.
I honestly don't know if low carbs caused my issues or if increasing my carbs is actually what solved it. But, it is possible that continuing to cut carbs may not solve the problem.
I also had my A1C checked this year, and it's back up at 5.1, so overall my blood sugar seems to have leveled out.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I can relate.
My endo said I have reactive hypoglycemia as well but I'm not sure if it is reactive because I wake up sometimes with a blood glucose in the 60s. Other times it is in the 70s which is normal. However, my A1c was 4.1 at one point :O I haven't had it checked in a while so I probably should because I am worried about becoming a diabetic.
At one point I was testing my blood sugar 10+ times a day. I was driving myself crazy. My fingers were black and blue. My endo finally said to stop testing and just go off of how I feel.
He also told me to check my BG before I drive (and to make sure it was at least 70). I constantly carry snacks and Gatorade on me. I agree that it is ridiculous. Having to eat when I'm not hungry but my blood sugar is low is ridiculous too and I'm sure it has contributed to my weight gain. It certainly doesn't help when I'm trying to lose weight.
All of my doctors… cardiologist, endocrinologist, gastroenterologist, gynecologist, dietician, PCP… all say to eat low carb. But when I tell them that I am dizzy, shaky, and feel faint when eliminating most carbs, they don't have any other advice. I take Metformin because my insulin is high (I am insulin resistant as well). How did you like Acarbose? Did you experience any side effects while on it?
ETA: I, too, have panic attacks and that just adds to the chaos because the symptoms for panic attacks and hypoglycemia are practically identical!0 -
I suffered from IBS for years. Not to beat a dead horse, but ALL of my IBS symptoms disappeared when I cut carbs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's IBS, but on a normal day-to-day basis I'd say things are under control. I think what helps is the probiotics I get in from the yogurt I eat and also from a probiotic supplement I take 2-3 times a week.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Do you have any specific gastrointestinal diseases?
I also suffered from IBS for a long time. No longer have issues with it and that's eating lots of carbs. I guess that rules that out. 0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »tigersword wrote: »Exception, the difference when you cut out carbs is amazing and your body thanks you for it and punishes you for lapsing. I have had a social weekend eating at Chinese restaurants and at a friend's home and I have had the worst time trying to sleep. My head hurts, I feel foggy and I can't wait to return to normal eating. I am actually craving healthy food. Now please people, don't tell me there is no such thing as good or bad food because I will give you the address of this restaurant and you can check it out for yourselves.
Rachylouise, I hope you are still hanging in there in amongst all the "interesting discussions" about shifting weight and goodness know what. For the record, in Australia we use the term "shift" in relation to weight as well.
Funny, that's how I feel after a day of NOT eating carbs. Might be something to do with it being our primary food source for the last few million years...
The funny thing about all this is that I limit carbs myself. I'm a moderate carber, I feel best if I keep them around 100g (net) a day and get them mostly from beans and dairy rather than grains. But that's just me. I have autoimmune conditions and a generally inflammatory bunch of nonsense to deal with, so I eat to feel well and eat what I enjoy.
I feel as fine as I ever did on super low carb. In fact, I'm in less pain now because I exercise. I'm more satisfied with my food than I was on super low carb. I don't crave the stuff I don't eat either. If I do want something I don't normally eat, I have a small amount of it and then go on with my normal way of eating and I feel fine.
The only difference in my life now is that I eat less than I ate before coming to MFP. There's my problem with some of the low carbers in this thread. There's no magic to cutting carbs. If you feel better eating that way for whatever reason? More power to you. That's great. But for weight loss? It's still all about how many low-carb calories you're eating.
Haha. It is funny. I am super low carb. I eat about 18g of carbs a day (that's my max unless I exercise and eat back some). I still have to eat at a deficit to lose weight. There's no magic here.
Although, I have to admit as a hypoglycemic who suffered for a good while..it feels like magic. But that's just because I feel amazing now compared to before. Not because magic..but because my pancreas doesn't have much to overreact to anymore and my blood glucose isn't dropping into the 50s on a daily basis.
@blktngldhrt I have a question for you… I, too, am hypoglycemic. I overproduce insulin which causes my blood sugar to crash. I used to eat 200+ grams of carbs and my blood glucose was going from 160 to 40 mg/dL in less than 45 minutes. I have cut back tremendously and typically eat between 110-160 grams now. I am still experiencing crashes so I know I need to cut back more. However, every time I try to eat below 75 grams, I am dizzy, weak, confused, shaky, and feel like I'm going to pass out if I don't eat or drink something high in carbs. If I do not eat at least 100 grams of carbs, I cannot keep my blood glucose at a level which I can function normally. Did you experience this?
I'm going to completely throw a wrench in this, but I'll share my personal experience. I'm reactive hypoglycemic, and I had a period where I was going to "do the paleo diet", and I cut out a ton of carbs from my diet, although I think I was still getting 70-100g of carbs a day, so nothing super low. A few months later, I started having a lot of problems with hypoglycemic crashes and at times that completely didn't make sense. I'd eat 100g of chicken and some veggies for lunch, and I'd be shaking an hour later.
After a few weeks of that, I ended up going to the doctor, and my blood work all came back normal except my A1C was low, 4.5, which corresponded to me having all my crashes. The endocrinologist was also at a loss and put me on acarbose and had me test my blood every time before I drove, and she told me I wasn't allowed to drive unless my blood sugar was at least 70. That caused me to have to snack every time I drove anywhere, and it was just ridiculous. I'd eat a snack (usually candy + peanut butter crackers for immediate sugar and long term fats for sustaining the blood sugar) drive to the store, run in for 10 minutes, and my blood sugar would be back under 70 and I'd have to eat another snack to drive home.
The cycling made me miserable, and it wasn't sustainable. The endocrinologist gave up on me because all my hormone levels were normal. I went to a third doctor, who told me the endocrinologist was treating me like a diabetic even though I wasn't one. I stopped all the crazy snacking and she even told me to stop taking my blood sugars because it was just stressing me out. Her only advice was to go back to low carb.
At that point, I ignored all the doctors because I had done low carb before, and it seemed more like it caused the problem than helping it. So, I upped my carbs. I know I don't react well to carbs during the day because they do seem to make me feel like a crash more. So, I eat relatively low carb for breakfast and lunch, and then I usually try to have rice or a roll with dinner. A lot of nights I'll have ice cream after dinner too. My carb levels usually aren't super high or low really (just depends on what I do for dinner), I'd say usually 180-200ish.
I honestly don't know if low carbs caused my issues or if increasing my carbs is actually what solved it. But, it is possible that continuing to cut carbs may not solve the problem.
I also had my A1C checked this year, and it's back up at 5.1, so overall my blood sugar seems to have leveled out.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I can relate.
My endo said I have reactive hypoglycemia as well but I'm not sure if it is reactive because I wake up sometimes with a blood glucose in the 60s. Other times it is in the 70s which is normal. However, my A1c was 4.1 at one point :O I haven't had it checked in a while so I probably should because I am worried about becoming a diabetic.
At one point I was testing my blood sugar 10+ times a day. I was driving myself crazy. My fingers were black and blue. My endo finally said to stop testing and just go off of how I feel.
He also told me to check my BG before I drive (and to make sure it was at least 70). I constantly carry snacks and Gatorade on me. I agree that it is ridiculous. Having to eat when I'm not hungry but my blood sugar is low is ridiculous too and I'm sure it has contributed to my weight gain. It certainly doesn't help when I'm trying to lose weight.
All of my doctors… cardiologist, endocrinologist, gastroenterologist, gynecologist, dietician, PCP… all say to eat low carb. But when I tell them that I am dizzy, shaky, and feel faint when eliminating most carbs, they don't have any other advice. I take Metformin because my insulin is high (I am insulin resistant as well). How did you like Acarbose? Did you experience any side effects while on it?
I didn't have any side effects from the acarbose, but it really didn't do anything to help me. I was only on it for two months though.
I agree the whole eating thing just got ridiculous. At one point I just gave up trying to lose and I ate whatever I could to not feel shaky. And it was a lot. On my good days I'd eat 2000 calories, and others I'd eat up to 3000 calories just trying to fight off the shakes.
And I think some of the best advice I got was that for a lot of people, low blood sugar is not a problem if you aren't having symptoms, and it usually doesn't drop way low unless you are a diabetic who overdosed on too much insulin. So, the chances of me going from a low blood sugar with no symptoms to being unable to drive are very slim (especially since I'm only ever in the car for less than an hour at a time), even if my blood sugar is below "normal". So, I cut out the snacking and testing around driving.
Honestly, I think the feeding the feelings created a cycle of highs and crashes that was ridiculous. Essentially all the close tracking and trying to regulate the levels just made it worse. I now do eat smaller meals during the day with snacks and then a larger dinner at night. I try to keep a schedule during the day and try to stick to the schedule regardless of if I start to feel a little shaky. Typically, it will go away, but then sometimes it spirals down quickly and I eat everything in sight. But, those instances are now few and far between luckily.
0 -
Lol, it's always worth trying!
I suffered from IBS for years. Not to beat a dead horse, but ALL of my IBS symptoms disappeared when I cut carbs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's IBS, but on a normal day-to-day basis I'd say things are under control. I think what helps is the probiotics I get in from the yogurt I eat and also from a probiotic supplement I take 2-3 times a week.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Do you have any specific gastrointestinal diseases?
I also suffered from IBS for a long time. No longer have issues with it and that's eating lots of carbs. I guess that rules that out.
0 -
OK, I'll bite. Where did you post your list?blktngldhrt wrote: »
The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
That's false.
From doctors, yes. From message board posters, no.In my opinion, more people should be worried about the quality of information they're taking in. Especially in the case of diet and health..I see extreme necessity for correct advice to be given.
Doctors have to go to school for a long time and work very hard through it in order to be able to diagnose and treat. With all that training, they still cannot do it online.
No advice received here should be used in place of actual, medical advice. I think we all agree on that.0 -
OK, I'll bite. Where did you post your list?blktngldhrt wrote: »
The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
That's false.
From doctors, yes. From message board posters, no.In my opinion, more people should be worried about the quality of information they're taking in. Especially in the case of diet and health..I see extreme necessity for correct advice to be given.
Doctors have to go to school for a long time and work very hard through it in order to be able to diagnose and treat. With all that training, they still cannot do it online.
No advice received here should be used in place of actual, medical advice. I think we all agree on that.
I think you are giving way to much credit to medical doctor's nutrition knowledge.
0 -
I suffered from IBS for years. Not to beat a dead horse, but ALL of my IBS symptoms disappeared when I cut carbs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's IBS, but on a normal day-to-day basis I'd say things are under control. I think what helps is the probiotics I get in from the yogurt I eat and also from a probiotic supplement I take 2-3 times a week.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Do you have any specific gastrointestinal diseases?
My son has IBS. He's a carb monster and his symptoms are managed. IBS is a really tricky thing to have. There's not one single solution.
0 -
Lol, it's always worth trying!
I suffered from IBS for years. Not to beat a dead horse, but ALL of my IBS symptoms disappeared when I cut carbs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's IBS, but on a normal day-to-day basis I'd say things are under control. I think what helps is the probiotics I get in from the yogurt I eat and also from a probiotic supplement I take 2-3 times a week.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Do you have any specific gastrointestinal diseases?
I also suffered from IBS for a long time. No longer have issues with it and that's eating lots of carbs. I guess that rules that out.
No way, I lost 121 pounds and now maintaining. While eating eating carbs the whole time.0 -
0
-
tigersword wrote: »acorsaut89 wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »acorsaut89 wrote: »kmmargrave wrote: »Time for a bit of schooling.
Yes, eating a very low amount of carbs every day will make most people lose weight, and very quickly. I've been on Atkins since 2000--that's right, folks, that's 14 years--and I lost 30 lbs. initially. I stunk at maintenance, but could always, ALWAYS lose weight I'd regain. Cheating has two nasty consequences--headaches and digestional complaints, and massive sugar craving. Sticking to around 30-50 grams of net carb (carbs minus fiber) a day is the ticket, along with even low duration/low intensity exercise, and a ton of water a day.
Menopause and quitting smoking are game-changers, but a year and a half after quitting smoking, the weight is slowly coming off. Sugar (and carbs, which turn into sugar) is the enemy for me and other people as well.
YES, it's typical for many people to lose 4-5 lbs. in the first week.
NO, that's not just water.
I think the major issue here is the assumption that by cutting out carbs, you're cutting out the appropriate portion of those starchy carbs. I also would like to add some "schooling" here that fruits and veggies (which I'm sure you still eat) have a lot of carbs in them, they just do not have have starchy carbs - which is a major difference.
Carbs turn into sugar ONLY if you don't use the energy they create for your body. If you don't have the new energy in your body (put there by food) your body will use your fat stores to produce energy needed.
Bottom Line: carbs are not the enemy for anyone; portion control is your enemy. As was said before, many people (and myself included sometimes) don't properly portion things like pasta and potatoes and rice. The appropriate sized portions of these things are really very tiny and eating appropriate portions, I imagine you'd still lose a significant amount of weight. Further, as was also mentioned, you are getting the same quantity of food when you remove starchy carbs for less calories. For example, a plate filled with spaghetti and meat sauce will hold far more calories than that same plate filled grilled chicken breast and broccoli. You think you're getting the same thing when really you're filling yourself with foods that are the same volume for less calories. It's all an illusion and it still does not make carbs your enemy - you are your own worst enemy when it comes to things like this. Atkins just babysits you and tells you to eat this, not that. It's not rocket science, it's someone's way of getting rich based on almost everyone else's inability to portion what they eat.
Carbs are sugar, starch, and fiber. Fiber is the only one of those that isnt turned into sugar by the digestive tract. Your statement is not true.
My apologies - thanks for clarifying.
The main point was that they're energy and when you need more energy than you're putting into your body your body will use the reserves it has which leads to weight loss, or CICO.
All food is energy, not just carbs.
EXACTLY! Which is why the "enemy" isn't carbs, it's portion control.0 -
0
-
Are you suggesting that people should seek medical advice on discussion boards instead of going to the doctor?
OK, I'll bite. Where did you post your list?blktngldhrt wrote: »
The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
That's false.
From doctors, yes. From message board posters, no.In my opinion, more people should be worried about the quality of information they're taking in. Especially in the case of diet and health..I see extreme necessity for correct advice to be given.
Doctors have to go to school for a long time and work very hard through it in order to be able to diagnose and treat. With all that training, they still cannot do it online.
No advice received here should be used in place of actual, medical advice. I think we all agree on that.
I think you are giving way to much credit to medical doctor's nutrition knowledge.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we don't all agree. Are you disagreeing?
0 -
Are you suggesting that people should seek medical advice on discussion boards instead of going to the doctor?
OK, I'll bite. Where did you post your list?blktngldhrt wrote: »
The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
That's false.
From doctors, yes. From message board posters, no.In my opinion, more people should be worried about the quality of information they're taking in. Especially in the case of diet and health..I see extreme necessity for correct advice to be given.
Doctors have to go to school for a long time and work very hard through it in order to be able to diagnose and treat. With all that training, they still cannot do it online.
No advice received here should be used in place of actual, medical advice. I think we all agree on that.
I think you are giving way to much credit to medical doctor's nutrition knowledge.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we don't all agree. Are you disagreeing?
He's saying that one shouldn't seek nutrition advice from MD's (because it isn't their area of expertise). Instead they should seek it from registered dietitians since that is their speciality and all.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
So do not, under any circumstances consume fruit during the two week test, but drink pure tomato juice (even though tomatoes are technically fruit, and that's ok)??
Sorry but I don't give a whole lot of credibility to this. Even if there is any, it's only talking about starchy carbs . . . which is much different. If it's still allowing the people to eat veggies for the duration of the test, veggies have carbs in them, just a different kind of carb.
This isn't a group of people who have an issue with carbs, it's a group of people who take issue with starchy carbs. Completely different in how they metabolize in your body.0 -
Are you suggesting that people should seek medical advice on discussion boards instead of going to the doctor?
OK, I'll bite. Where did you post your list?blktngldhrt wrote: »
The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
That's false.
From doctors, yes. From message board posters, no.In my opinion, more people should be worried about the quality of information they're taking in. Especially in the case of diet and health..I see extreme necessity for correct advice to be given.
Doctors have to go to school for a long time and work very hard through it in order to be able to diagnose and treat. With all that training, they still cannot do it online.
No advice received here should be used in place of actual, medical advice. I think we all agree on that.
I think you are giving way to much credit to medical doctor's nutrition knowledge.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we don't all agree. Are you disagreeing?
No, I am saying exactly what I said. You give to much credit to MDs. It's like telling someone to go see a gynecologist for their broken toe.
0 -
acorsaut89 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
So do not, under any circumstances consume fruit during the two week test, but drink pure tomato juice (even though tomatoes are technically fruit, and that's ok)??
It does't have to have logic in his world.
0 -
acorsaut89 wrote: »tigersword wrote: »acorsaut89 wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »acorsaut89 wrote: »kmmargrave wrote: »Time for a bit of schooling.
Yes, eating a very low amount of carbs every day will make most people lose weight, and very quickly. I've been on Atkins since 2000--that's right, folks, that's 14 years--and I lost 30 lbs. initially. I stunk at maintenance, but could always, ALWAYS lose weight I'd regain. Cheating has two nasty consequences--headaches and digestional complaints, and massive sugar craving. Sticking to around 30-50 grams of net carb (carbs minus fiber) a day is the ticket, along with even low duration/low intensity exercise, and a ton of water a day.
Menopause and quitting smoking are game-changers, but a year and a half after quitting smoking, the weight is slowly coming off. Sugar (and carbs, which turn into sugar) is the enemy for me and other people as well.
YES, it's typical for many people to lose 4-5 lbs. in the first week.
NO, that's not just water.
I think the major issue here is the assumption that by cutting out carbs, you're cutting out the appropriate portion of those starchy carbs. I also would like to add some "schooling" here that fruits and veggies (which I'm sure you still eat) have a lot of carbs in them, they just do not have have starchy carbs - which is a major difference.
Carbs turn into sugar ONLY if you don't use the energy they create for your body. If you don't have the new energy in your body (put there by food) your body will use your fat stores to produce energy needed.
Bottom Line: carbs are not the enemy for anyone; portion control is your enemy. As was said before, many people (and myself included sometimes) don't properly portion things like pasta and potatoes and rice. The appropriate sized portions of these things are really very tiny and eating appropriate portions, I imagine you'd still lose a significant amount of weight. Further, as was also mentioned, you are getting the same quantity of food when you remove starchy carbs for less calories. For example, a plate filled with spaghetti and meat sauce will hold far more calories than that same plate filled grilled chicken breast and broccoli. You think you're getting the same thing when really you're filling yourself with foods that are the same volume for less calories. It's all an illusion and it still does not make carbs your enemy - you are your own worst enemy when it comes to things like this. Atkins just babysits you and tells you to eat this, not that. It's not rocket science, it's someone's way of getting rich based on almost everyone else's inability to portion what they eat.
Carbs are sugar, starch, and fiber. Fiber is the only one of those that isnt turned into sugar by the digestive tract. Your statement is not true.
My apologies - thanks for clarifying.
The main point was that they're energy and when you need more energy than you're putting into your body your body will use the reserves it has which leads to weight loss, or CICO.
All food is energy, not just carbs.
EXACTLY! Which is why the "enemy" isn't carbs, it's portion control.
True. For some people though, controlling their portions of carbs (specifically the highly refined, calorie dense ones) is extremely difficult. So their perception is that carbs are their enemy. Look IMO, if you have identified what your achilles heel is more power to you. Who am I (or anyone for that matter) to tell you you're wrong.0 -
Well, then, I guess you're all set!
Lol, it's always worth trying!
I suffered from IBS for years. Not to beat a dead horse, but ALL of my IBS symptoms disappeared when I cut carbs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's IBS, but on a normal day-to-day basis I'd say things are under control. I think what helps is the probiotics I get in from the yogurt I eat and also from a probiotic supplement I take 2-3 times a week.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Do you have any specific gastrointestinal diseases?
I also suffered from IBS for a long time. No longer have issues with it and that's eating lots of carbs. I guess that rules that out.
No way, I lost 121 pounds and now maintaining. While eating eating carbs the whole time.
0 -
acorsaut89 wrote: »tigersword wrote: »acorsaut89 wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »acorsaut89 wrote: »kmmargrave wrote: »Time for a bit of schooling.
Yes, eating a very low amount of carbs every day will make most people lose weight, and very quickly. I've been on Atkins since 2000--that's right, folks, that's 14 years--and I lost 30 lbs. initially. I stunk at maintenance, but could always, ALWAYS lose weight I'd regain. Cheating has two nasty consequences--headaches and digestional complaints, and massive sugar craving. Sticking to around 30-50 grams of net carb (carbs minus fiber) a day is the ticket, along with even low duration/low intensity exercise, and a ton of water a day.
Menopause and quitting smoking are game-changers, but a year and a half after quitting smoking, the weight is slowly coming off. Sugar (and carbs, which turn into sugar) is the enemy for me and other people as well.
YES, it's typical for many people to lose 4-5 lbs. in the first week.
NO, that's not just water.
I think the major issue here is the assumption that by cutting out carbs, you're cutting out the appropriate portion of those starchy carbs. I also would like to add some "schooling" here that fruits and veggies (which I'm sure you still eat) have a lot of carbs in them, they just do not have have starchy carbs - which is a major difference.
Carbs turn into sugar ONLY if you don't use the energy they create for your body. If you don't have the new energy in your body (put there by food) your body will use your fat stores to produce energy needed.
Bottom Line: carbs are not the enemy for anyone; portion control is your enemy. As was said before, many people (and myself included sometimes) don't properly portion things like pasta and potatoes and rice. The appropriate sized portions of these things are really very tiny and eating appropriate portions, I imagine you'd still lose a significant amount of weight. Further, as was also mentioned, you are getting the same quantity of food when you remove starchy carbs for less calories. For example, a plate filled with spaghetti and meat sauce will hold far more calories than that same plate filled grilled chicken breast and broccoli. You think you're getting the same thing when really you're filling yourself with foods that are the same volume for less calories. It's all an illusion and it still does not make carbs your enemy - you are your own worst enemy when it comes to things like this. Atkins just babysits you and tells you to eat this, not that. It's not rocket science, it's someone's way of getting rich based on almost everyone else's inability to portion what they eat.
Carbs are sugar, starch, and fiber. Fiber is the only one of those that isnt turned into sugar by the digestive tract. Your statement is not true.
My apologies - thanks for clarifying.
The main point was that they're energy and when you need more energy than you're putting into your body your body will use the reserves it has which leads to weight loss, or CICO.
All food is energy, not just carbs.
EXACTLY! Which is why the "enemy" isn't carbs, it's portion control.
True. For some people though, controlling their portions of carbs (specifically the highly refined, calorie dense ones) is extremely difficult. So their perception is that carbs are their enemy. Look IMO, if you have identified what your achilles heel is more power to you. Who am I (or anyone for that matter) to tell you you're wrong.
Yes and I get that . . . I think it has a lot to do with the fact that (most) carbs are calorie dense foods which, when portioned correctly, most people do not feel it's enough food for them. However, if you have the same volume of another food, say like grilled chicken breast, you get the same quantity of food in your body for less calories which will lead to weight loss. It's definitely a mental thing.
If people need to cut carbs because they cannot portion them, then more power to you. I just don't feel as though they're the enemy, so much as they're just so darn good I want to eat all of them lol. They just need to consume proper portions of these carbs which, in reality, are really not all that big compared to what you can get for the same calories in other foods.
0 -
No, I am saying exactly what I said. You give to much credit to MDs. It's like telling someone to go see a gynecologist for their broken toe.
I agree - going to see an MD for nutritional needs isn't really going to provide you with a lot of benefit since it isn't their area of expertise. Sure, they're still a "doctor" but I wouldn't want an MD performing open heart surgery over a cardiac surgeon.
If you're going to seek medical advice, why not just go right to the place you know has the best options for you? Nutritionists/dieticians (whichever you see) will be able to provide you with (better) advice regarding your nutritional needs.
Or, as someone else said, you can do the research yourself. I've done a lot of research myself because even among the nutrition community there are some opposing ideas and I'd like to know the information that's out there before I follow someone else's advice. I have still met with a nutritionist who specializes in weight loss (and extreme weight loss in my case) but she did provide me with some material and additional resources to make sure I am comfy with the plan she gave me. 0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 400 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 990 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions