sugar addiction
Replies
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I respect that, but I don't think a lot of people coming into this forum expect it. As I've said in other threads, most people in my culture are not taught to look at food the way it is presented here. Whereas, I feel like the people that have been on here for a while don't seem to realize that. So, when alternate views are presented by newer folks, in a lot of cases the long-timers basically say, "Stop, get out of here with that nonsense" without or before trying to explain the issue with what the poster said.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »general observation..it is funny how the majority of the sugar addiction folks are also yo yo dieters….
Instead of restricting foods and viewing them as "evil" you could get on a long term and sustainable path to weight loss where you eat all foods moderately, enjoy them, and lose weight.
The problem is that sugar has become a "crutch" so that it can be blamed for the reason as to why X diet fails.
General observation...it is funny how the majority of sugar defenders are abusive and insulting (and recompers with a higher amount of discretionary calories). Does sugar make people mean? Too bad the OPs are asking for helpful advice, not mocking comments.
The forums aren't for the thin-skinned and weak-hearted. People will ask for peer-reviewed sources to back-up your claims. People will question you. People will debate with you. They do this because people don't want the forums full of incorrect information. They do this because they have been here for a long time. They know what causes people to fail and what causes people to succeed. People don't sugar coat here; they tell it like it is.0 -
This is one of those areas where I can only speak to my experience, but as someone with diabetes on both sides of the family, my sugar intake can be a concern. Over my lifetime, I have had a couple of learning experiences that might be useful:
1) As a summer camp counselor in college, I was craving a lot of sweets from the snack bar in the afternoons. After some thought, I realized I was eating a lot less fruit than usual, because the only fresh fruit we got was at breakfast. I asked the kitchen to save me something fresh for the afternoon free period, and I would eat that before getting my Klondike bar(s). After that change, I ate a lot less junk that summer, and now I try to get fresh fruit into my diet when I'm craving sugars. It seems to help.
2) When I hit my highest weight about 15 years ago, I finally broke down and tried an official 'diet'. Several of my friends had success with Atkins, so I did a modified version for 3 - 5 weeks. While I don't advocate anything so strict, since it isn't something I can incorporate as a lifestyle change, I will say that I went from being able to consume most of a half-pound bag of M&M's in one sitting to being satiated with just a few. Even now, it doesn't take much straight sugar for me to get my fill.
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I am new to this forum and it is interesting to see how defensive people get when it comes down to their opinions. I thought that the communities were meant to help people with their weight loss, support them, etc, not attack them for expressing personal opinions. Now, not to aggravate anyone, sugar is not just like any other food. I teach biochemistry at the university level and in this course we look at the COORDINATED regulation of the mammalian metabolism. What people sometimes forget is that in addition to calories in minus calories out, there is another layer of regulation, your HORMONES, and among them INSULIN. Why is sugar (specifically glucose) different than protein or fats? Because when you eat sugar, it will eventually end up in your blood (the time it takes for this depends on the type of sugar, the more refined, the faster it will end up in your blood), and then your body will respond to this influx of sugar. Why? Because your brain needs a certain level of glucose (the brain uses glucose as main fuel, it cannot process directly fats or protein), too much is bad, too little bad again, so your body REGULATES very tightly the blood glucose levels. How? If all of a sudden the blood glucose levels spike up, your body will signal the pancreas to release insulin, which is a hormone whose ultimate action is to act on certain cells that have insulin receptors to pick up that excess of glucose from blood to return the blood glucose levels to normal. So you might think, so what is the problem? Well the problem is what happens with that excess glucose that is no longer in the blood, it will be picked up by your liver cells, muscle cells, adipose tissue (fat) cells, it will be degraded to a molecule named acetyl-CoA, which if your body does not need energy will be converted to fat (think of this acetyl-CoA as the building block of fats). And to top it off, insulin helps the enzymes that convert the excess glucose into fat via acetyl-CoA. Bottom line is that sugar is different than fat and protein because it triggers insulin release and insulin reinforces the process of storing extra acetyl-CoA as fat. Does this mean you have a free pass to eat excess fat or protein? Not really, these will be metabolized eventually into acetyl-CoA, which again, if energy is not needed, will be converted to fat. But they do not trigger insulin release. Any biochemistry book can be used as a reference for the above statements.
Now coming around to the complex carbs versus refined ones, the more complex they are the slower they are released, so your blood glucose levels will stay more constant, not triggering insulin.
Is sugar addictive? It can be, but so are the fats. I actually crave both sugars and fats, but I find that I am more successful at losing weight if I cut the sugar. I also do what one of the previous posters does, I try to reset my sugar cravings by cutting refined sugars for a short period of time, but then slowly I slide back into bad habits. I hope this helps.
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I am new to this forum and it is interesting to see how defensive people get when it comes down to their opinions. I thought that the communities were meant to help people with their weight loss, support them, etc, not attack them for expressing personal opinions. Now, not to aggravate anyone, sugar is not just like any other food. I teach biochemistry at the university level and in this course we look at the COORDINATED regulation of the mammalian metabolism. What people sometimes forget is that in addition to calories in minus calories out, there is another layer of regulation, your HORMONES, and among them INSULIN. Why is sugar (specifically glucose) different than protein or fats? Because when you eat sugar, it will eventually end up in your blood (the time it takes for this depends on the type of sugar, the more refined, the faster it will end up in your blood), and then your body will respond to this influx of sugar. Why? Because your brain needs a certain level of glucose (the brain uses glucose as main fuel, it cannot process directly fats or protein), too much is bad, too little bad again, so your body REGULATES very tightly the blood glucose levels. How? If all of a sudden the blood glucose levels spike up, your body will signal the pancreas to release insulin, which is a hormone whose ultimate action is to act on certain cells that have insulin receptors to pick up that excess of glucose from blood to return the blood glucose levels to normal. So you might think, so what is the problem? Well the problem is what happens with that excess glucose that is no longer in the blood, it will be picked up by your liver cells, muscle cells, adipose tissue (fat) cells, it will be degraded to a molecule named acetyl-CoA, which if your body does not need energy will be converted to fat (think of this acetyl-CoA as the building block of fats). And to top it off, insulin helps the enzymes that convert the excess glucose into fat via acetyl-CoA. Bottom line is that sugar is different than fat and protein because it triggers insulin release and insulin reinforces the process of storing extra acetyl-CoA as fat. Does this mean you have a free pass to eat excess fat or protein? Not really, these will be metabolized eventually into acetyl-CoA, which again, if energy is not needed, will be converted to fat. But they do not trigger insulin release. Any biochemistry book can be used as a reference for the above statements.
Now coming around to the complex carbs versus refined ones, the more complex they are the slower they are released, so your blood glucose levels will stay more constant, not triggering insulin.
Is sugar addictive? It can be, but so are the fats. I actually crave both sugars and fats, but I find that I am more successful at losing weight if I cut the sugar. I also do what one of the previous posters does, I try to reset my sugar cravings by cutting refined sugars for a short period of time, but then slowly I slide back into bad habits. I hope this helps.
you and gale hawkins should talk.
I don't even know what you just typed….
paragraphs are your friends…
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Rather than try to be polite about it, I've noticed that some here would rather slam and mock people for posting information that may be controversial. I don't get it…I am new to this forum and it is interesting to see how defensive people get when it comes down to their opinions. I thought that the communities were meant to help people with their weight loss, support them, etc, not attack them for expressing personal opinions.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Rather than try to be polite about it, I've noticed that some here would rather slam and mock people for posting information that may be controversial. I don't get it…I am new to this forum and it is interesting to see how defensive people get when it comes down to their opinions. I thought that the communities were meant to help people with their weight loss, support them, etc, not attack them for expressing personal opinions.
I don't see any mocking or slamming in this thread.
More concerning to me is the people that seem to feel like disagreement is abuse or negativity.
There are actually people with histories in this thread that have literally had this same conversation over and over again - so yeah, sometimes things get snarky, but I assure you that both parties are full participants.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
Rather than try to be polite about it, I've noticed that some here would rather slam and mock people for posting information that may be controversial. I don't get it…I am new to this forum and it is interesting to see how defensive people get when it comes down to their opinions. I thought that the communities were meant to help people with their weight loss, support them, etc, not attack them for expressing personal opinions.
Controversial topics are well, controversial.0 -
Not in this thread, but I've seen it in other threads.TheVirgoddess wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Rather than try to be polite about it, I've noticed that some here would rather slam and mock people for posting information that may be controversial. I don't get it…I am new to this forum and it is interesting to see how defensive people get when it comes down to their opinions. I thought that the communities were meant to help people with their weight loss, support them, etc, not attack them for expressing personal opinions.
I don't see any mocking or slamming in this thread.
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Some of the above comments go beyond controversial, some of the people here cannot respond properly and they instead use language like "troll" (this goes beyond disagreement and negativity), etc.
See the first response to my long post: poster did not even try to understand (maybe too much science? maybe attention span does not go beyond 2 lines?), slammed the post down. Who cares about paragraphs? You have the choice of not reading if you do not want/ you cannot understand, but what is the point of the post? This is an example of people trying to be rude, it has nothing to do with disagreement.0 -
Some of the above comments go beyond controversial, some of the people here cannot respond properly and they instead use language like "troll" (this goes beyond disagreement and negativity), etc.
See the first response to my long post: poster did not even try to understand (maybe too much science? maybe attention span does not go beyond 2 lines?), slammed the post down. Who cares about paragraphs? You have the choice of not reading if you do not want/ you cannot understand, but what is the point of the post? This is an example of people trying to be rude, it has nothing to do with disagreement.
because nothing you said made sense…
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Some of the above comments go beyond controversial, some of the people here cannot respond properly and they instead use language like "troll" (this goes beyond disagreement and negativity), etc.
See the first response to my long post: poster did not even try to understand (maybe too much science? maybe attention span does not go beyond 2 lines?), slammed the post down. Who cares about paragraphs? You have the choice of not reading if you do not want/ you cannot understand, but what is the point of the post? This is an example of people trying to be rude, it has nothing to do with disagreement.
It is much, much easier to read posts (especially when they are as long as yours was) when a person uses paragraphs.0 -
Your body craves sugar because you are not getting enough protein in your diet. You can have sugar from natural sources like fruit. I find that eating a couple of clementines with a meal makes me less likely to crave sugar from other things. Your kids probably crave sugary cereals, cookies, ect, right? Start subbing fruit every time they start whining for the sugary stuff. Also crispy, crunchy snacks like carrots/celery with peanut butter or hummus, can keep away the sugar cravings that you and the kids may have. Redirecting yourself away from the tv and into an activity outside with the kids or into an activity such as organizing drawers or a closet can distract yourself from thinking about your sugar cravings. I also have been drinking a big cup of iced water or iced tea with lemon (un-sweet), keeps the cravings away. Between meals, try chewing a stick of mint gum.0
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Michelle2W wrote: »Fourth day without sugar, and it has been rough. Finally starting to feel better!
Hang in there. In my case I went high on Fat and some thinking that help but most all seem to agree making sure getting all required protein helps with hunger.
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AndruPet welcome to MFP and thank you for the science you bring to the table.
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I don't usually write on forums because people are so nasty and negative. I will be unlikely to attempt it again because of the poor behavior of the people on here. I wrote because I have recently started severely restricting my sugar consumption and was hoping to find other people who are going through similar struggles. Unfortunately what I got was a lot of ugliness.
To the people who were so condescending to me with regard to Dr. Lustig's video: I am a researcher by trade and have a graduate degree in information science. I read critically and I do not take to fads. I have read a lot of literature that has come to similar conclusions as those found by Lustig, and Lustig is not the first or only person to have developed this theory. Lustig is a scholar and scientist, he contributes science based literature for peer-reviewed journals and occasionally writes a book. He has a medical practice trying to cure sickly, obese children. Lusting is also not claiming that any amount of sugar is damaging to ones health, what he is claiming is that the modern diet is simply too high in processed foods that use high fructose sugars as a primary ingredient and that it is making people sick. However, even if Lustig's research findings are overblown, if it helps me to use it as motivation than what do you care?
Incidentally, I am very aware that there are trace amounts of sugar in sushi rice, ketchup, and nearly every sauce I consume in a restaurant. I am not militant about my diet in any extreme, but I have given up sugar in dessert foods and beverages because the high quantities have an adverse effect on my physical health. The small amount of sugar in sushi rice, ketchup, and fruits is insignificant in terms of the amount of sugar I was consuming from sweets. There is a huge difference between the eighth of a cup of sushi rice I eat and a cookie or chocolate bar. So, if I choose to fix my craving with the trace amount of sugar that is in sushi rice, I still win over the craving that has me wanting a slice of cake.
As with sugar, the people who use discussion forums to be cruel are toxic and bad for everyone.0 -
guys guys.... every cell in the human body runs off of GLUCOSE! we are designed to need sugar hence why we all crave sweet things sometimes. its because our body is telling us something.... theres a huge vegan movement / high carb / high fruit like check out Freelee the banana girl youtube videos, and many more.... we have diseases and bad health because we follow the mainstream high animal product/ low carb/ high fat and protein diets because thats how health carers make their money.... inform yourselves, eat tons of plants and fruits and you won't crave sweets if you already having it....0
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since this lifestyle i have lost 6 kilos and maintained it , eating about 3000 calories a day. before this, i was 6 kilos heavier and eating like 1200 calories a day! sometimes a bit less, sometimes a bit more.... but 1200 was my goal. now i feel full, carved up, energetic, clear, no more constipation, hydrated and just happy
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I find that too. After my evening walk I rarely feel like eating anything so I grab my beautiful teapot and brew up either a green tea or a ginger and lemon tea (Using real ginger and real lemon). Both help to keep my hands busy and keep away the cravings for lesser foods while I work a couple of hours in the evenings.
Doesn't always work but I just get back on the wagon for the next meal and forget about my lapse. No use beating myself up about it!
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I find a period of not eating processed carbs is helpful. Clean eating I guess, for me its not just straight sugar but processed carbs - the combination of white flour products, cooking fats and sugar which set up a desire to over eat them. Staying away from them for awhile helps. I also find eating homemade fruit salad helps as well - I include yoghurt and this settles my desire to eat a whole cheescake or something say (thats an exaggeration).0
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Michelle2W wrote: »Fourth day without sugar, and it has been rough. Finally starting to feel better!
Day 4 for me just started
So far so good!!
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I am new to this forum and it is interesting to see how defensive people get when it comes down to their opinions. I thought that the communities were meant to help people with their weight loss, support them, etc, not attack them for expressing personal opinions. Now, not to aggravate anyone, sugar is not just like any other food. I teach biochemistry at the university level and in this course we look at the COORDINATED regulation of the mammalian metabolism. What people sometimes forget is that in addition to calories in minus calories out, there is another layer of regulation, your HORMONES, and among them INSULIN. Why is sugar (specifically glucose) different than protein or fats? Because when you eat sugar, it will eventually end up in your blood (the time it takes for this depends on the type of sugar, the more refined, the faster it will end up in your blood), and then your body will respond to this influx of sugar. Why? Because your brain needs a certain level of glucose (the brain uses glucose as main fuel, it cannot process directly fats or protein), too much is bad, too little bad again, so your body REGULATES very tightly the blood glucose levels. How? If all of a sudden the blood glucose levels spike up, your body will signal the pancreas to release insulin, which is a hormone whose ultimate action is to act on certain cells that have insulin receptors to pick up that excess of glucose from blood to return the blood glucose levels to normal. So you might think, so what is the problem? Well the problem is what happens with that excess glucose that is no longer in the blood, it will be picked up by your liver cells, muscle cells, adipose tissue (fat) cells, it will be degraded to a molecule named acetyl-CoA, which if your body does not need energy will be converted to fat (think of this acetyl-CoA as the building block of fats). And to top it off, insulin helps the enzymes that convert the excess glucose into fat via acetyl-CoA. Bottom line is that sugar is different than fat and protein because it triggers insulin release and insulin reinforces the process of storing extra acetyl-CoA as fat. Does this mean you have a free pass to eat excess fat or protein? Not really, these will be metabolized eventually into acetyl-CoA, which again, if energy is not needed, will be converted to fat. But they do not trigger insulin release. Any biochemistry book can be used as a reference for the above statements.
Now coming around to the complex carbs versus refined ones, the more complex they are the slower they are released, so your blood glucose levels will stay more constant, not triggering insulin.
Is sugar addictive? It can be, but so are the fats. I actually crave both sugars and fats, but I find that I am more successful at losing weight if I cut the sugar. I also do what one of the previous posters does, I try to reset my sugar cravings by cutting refined sugars for a short period of time, but then slowly I slide back into bad habits. I hope this helps.
What about the fact that protein is also insulinogenic and causes insulin release? What about the fact that fat also causes insulin release, because insulin is released just by the simple fact of eating? How about glucose regulating IGF-1 and HGH to promote muscle growth?
You're providing a very oversimplified, very biased and one sided view of the issue. As you state you're a scientist, shouldn't you make a point of being objective?0 -
melissalatzel25 wrote: »guys guys.... every cell in the human body runs off of GLUCOSE! we are designed to need sugar hence why we all crave sweet things sometimes. its because our body is telling us something.... theres a huge vegan movement / high carb / high fruit like check out Freelee the banana girl youtube videos, and many more.... we have diseases and bad health because we follow the mainstream high animal product/ low carb/ high fat and protein diets because thats how health carers make their money.... inform yourselves, eat tons of plants and fruits and you won't crave sweets if you already having it....
Freelee is an idiot. Humans have been eating a diet of moderate carbs with plenty of animal protein and fat for millions of years. The human body can manufacture all the glucose it needs from any food you eat. Most modern diseases are due to the longevity of the average human lifespan, which has more than doubled over the last hundred years.-1 -
This thread needs less talking and more squats... problem solved.0
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melissalatzel25 wrote: »guys guys.... every cell in the human body runs off of GLUCOSE! we are designed to need sugar hence why we all crave sweet things sometimes. its because our body is telling us something.... theres a huge vegan movement / high carb / high fruit like check out Freelee the banana girl youtube videos, and many more.... we have diseases and bad health because we follow the mainstream high animal product/ low carb/ high fat and protein diets because thats how health carers make their money.... inform yourselves, eat tons of plants and fruits and you won't crave sweets if you already having it....
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This completely...FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »general observation..it is funny how the majority of the sugar addiction folks are also yo yo dieters….
Instead of restricting foods and viewing them as "evil" you could get on a long term and sustainable path to weight loss where you eat all foods moderately, enjoy them, and lose weight.
The problem is that sugar has become a "crutch" so that it can be blamed for the reason as to why X diet fails.
General observation...it is funny how the majority of sugar defenders are abusive and insulting (and recompers with a higher amount of discretionary calories). Does sugar make people mean? Too bad the OPs are asking for helpful advice, not mocking comments.
I don't see where @ndj1979 was abusive or insulting?
The forums aren't for the thin-skinned and weak-hearted. People will ask for peer-reviewed sources to back-up your claims. People will question you. People will debate with you. They do this because people don't want the forums full of incorrect information. They do this because they have been here for a long time. They know what causes people to fail and what causes people to succeed. People don't sugar coat here; they tell it like it is. If you think that is abusive and insulting, so be it…
Actually I love it when someone tells me here i am slacking and if i am full of *&%$ thats why complete strangers are a good mix for helping you overcome things your family would most likely never approach you on.0 -
People have to remember that, when trying to persuade, "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar." (Flies can't say no to sugar either LOL)0
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general observation..it is funny how the majority of the sugar addiction folks are also yo yo dieters….
Instead of restricting foods and viewing them as "evil" you could get on a long term and sustainable path to weight loss where you eat all foods moderately, enjoy them, and lose weight.
The problem is that sugar has become a "crutch" so that it can be blamed for the reason as to why X diet fails.
General observation...it is funny how the majority of sugar defenders are abusive and insulting (and recompers with a higher amount of discretionary calories). Does sugar make people mean? Too bad the OPs are asking for helpful advice, not mocking comments.
please find where I was abusive or insulting….
http://guilfordjournals.com/doi/abs/10.1521/jscp.2010.29.7.727
Increase of success in quitting smoking for participants using positive self talk
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110717204913.htm
Women were more successful losing weight when taught to accept their bodies
Positivity heals and negativity hurts.
Why do you think I was talking about you? Is it because in the above quotes you insinuate that people who indicate they have problems with sugar are yo yo dieters, or that when someone asks for help with sugar that they are blaming sugar for the failure of their diet? OP is asking for help in an area where she has struggled. This is what personal responsibility looks like.
You have turned a situation where someone is being proactive about succeeding into an opportunity to make baseless accusations, and focus on negative outcomes that come from your imagination. You have no idea if any of the posters here have yoyo dieted or have had diets that failed (or that their current diet will fail, if that was where you were going). Focusing on negatives, even negatives that you have made up, is hurtful and insulting. Everyone has had some areas of growth with weight management, otherwise there would be no point to the boards. And the point of the boards is for us to support each other.
After all, isn't recomping a form of yoyo dieting?
Also, if you are going to flag someone, don't quote them. The mods will take out the original post, but not where it has been quoted
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This completely...FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »general observation..it is funny how the majority of the sugar addiction folks are also yo yo dieters….
Instead of restricting foods and viewing them as "evil" you could get on a long term and sustainable path to weight loss where you eat all foods moderately, enjoy them, and lose weight.
The problem is that sugar has become a "crutch" so that it can be blamed for the reason as to why X diet fails.
General observation...it is funny how the majority of sugar defenders are abusive and insulting (and recompers with a higher amount of discretionary calories). Does sugar make people mean? Too bad the OPs are asking for helpful advice, not mocking comments.
I don't see where @ndj1979 was abusive or insulting?
The forums aren't for the thin-skinned and weak-hearted. People will ask for peer-reviewed sources to back-up your claims. People will question you. People will debate with you. They do this because people don't want the forums full of incorrect information. They do this because they have been here for a long time. They know what causes people to fail and what causes people to succeed. People don't sugar coat here; they tell it like it is. If you think that is abusive and insulting, so be it…
Actually I love it when someone tells me here i am slacking and if i am full of *&%$ thats why complete strangers are a good mix for helping you overcome things your family would most likely never approach you on.
The Oxford debate:
"...The debate is best remembered today for a heated exchange in which Wilberforce supposedly asked Huxley whether it was through his grandfather or his grandmother that he claimed his descent from a monkey.[2]
Huxley is said to have replied that he would not be ashamed to have a monkey for his ancestor, but he would be ashamed to be connected with a man who used his great gifts to obscure the truth"
When you resort to insults, you have lost the argument.
First of all, I was talking about "the majority of sugar defenders", not specifically about ndj1979. Questioning, asking for peer-reviewed sources, and respectful debate is fine, and something I personally enjoy. Personally attacking someone, for example by saying "You just don't have self control", is not. It is insulting and off topic, a violation of 2 forum rules. And, it's a behavior I'm seeing in a lot of "what you eat doesn't matter" posters.
The message boards are not an exclusive club for the thick skinned and strong hearted. They are for people who want concrete advice and support. If you want someone to swear at you, abuse you, and insult you, and to be free to do the same to others, I would suggest going to a forum where that isn't against the rules.0
This discussion has been closed.
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