Define "healthy" food...
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JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein. And yet again, you misunderstood the question. The question is this. Which of the two if you ate for a month, would you be better off with at the end of the month. The question isn't if one would be an unhealthy choice. The question is which would be more healthy or unhealthy for you.
Neither one. Because if you ate a diet of a 100% broccoli or 100% doritos for a month or two you probably end up in the hospital with either. That's why neither should be done and both comparisons are ridiculous.
I disagree that one wouldn't be better than the other. You continued the argument, then once cornered, you went off on another tangent. Congrats. After considering the last two nutritional labels, I'd go with broccoli. but in reality, I wouldn't eat just one.
But you know what? Because of this, you now know broccoli has protein.
Right, you think you're teaching me something? I'm going to eat 30 servings of broccoli in order to get my protein requirements. While at the same time getting no fat. Makes sense. Please try again if you think an all broccoli diet for a month or 2 wouldn't land you in the hospital. You really are clueless.
I'm the clueless one. Who here didn't know broccoli didn't contain protein? And what data do you have that shows that eating broccoli would land you in a hospital after 1 or 2 months? I'm not saying it wouldn't, I'm asking for how you are coming to those time frames 0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein. And yet again, you misunderstood the question. The question is this. Which of the two if you ate for a month, would you be better off with at the end of the month. The question isn't if one would be an unhealthy choice. The question is which would be more healthy or unhealthy for you.
60 cups per day to hit my objective. It's ridiculous to consider it a viable protein source in that context.
The answer is neither. The answer is "the question is stupid."
I didn't poise the question. I only answered it. And the answer isn't "neither". There should be one that is actually going to net you more benefit.
Neither will. You'll be sick within a week if you only ate one or the other, ad librium.
Interesting. Do you have a study or data that only after one week, one would become sick from eating either one?
Yeah, there are studies on mono-item diets. Highly unethical ones from the 40's done on prisoners.
Scurvy takes 8 months.
Intestinal flora, diarrhea, et... about a week.
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Food has no context.
I don't know what is in carbonara. Tasted it, didn't like it. Can't discuss it.lemurcat12 wrote: »Food has no context. Broccoli doesn't cease to be broccoli on a dinner plate because you had an Oreo at lunch. It won't become and orange or an ice cream cone. Broccoli is still broccoli no matter what else you have eaten. If you took one tiny broccoli crumb and tossed it into a pile of corn, the broccoli crumb is still broccoli.
But the point is that whether broccoli is a better choice than, say, some shortribs or a bowl of pasta carbonara depends on context. Some would say (including you I would guess, but will let you say) that the broccoli is always better, because those foods are high fat (high saturated fat, even) and lower in micronutrient content, but if you've mostly eaten fruits and veggies that day I think either would be a better choice than more broccoli. You probably need the calories and certainly need fat and protein.
Now, more often than not, people easily get enough fat, and don't have that much trouble coming up with better sources of protein (per calorie, no value judgment here) than the dishes referenced, and might be short on vegetables and, to a lesser degree, fruits and other sources of fiber, so it's easily to assume that those foods are per se healthy and the others ones to avoid, but it's really the overall mix that matters, not the specific foods. At least, not unless the food is actively unhealthy, which for me means certain things like transfats (and more, but I'm not really interested in getting into a debate about this). From what you've written I get the sense that you consider a healthy diet much lower fat, especially low sat. fat, and also low sodium, whereas I am not so concerned about those things (in the context of my overall diet), so an individual food that brings you over your limit of those could reasonably be considered unhealthy by you and not by me, but again I think that's context.
Food isn't different based on what one person eats. The fact that I'm allergic to bananas doesn't make the bananas unhealthy. The bananas are fine. The fact that I cannot eat them doesn't make them unhealthy per se.
I need to keep my fat low. That doesn't change the fat. The fat remains the same.
The food has no context. It cannot be changed. If people think about what they ate earlier today, the food sitting on the plate does not change.
Nothing anyone thinks has any effect on the food itself. The food does not change.
wow, you totally do not understand dietary context do you?
None of what you say or think will change the food itself.0 -
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To me healthy foods are foods that BOTH provide something your body needs (other than calories, because nobody on this site is in a situation where they might literally starve to death and could therefore call any food healthy) AND doesn't contain excessive amounts of anything that has been shown to negatively impact health. Now what I might consider "excessive" amounts might differ from someone else's definition, but oh well...that's a topic for a different thread.
I view it in the context of overall health...not just weight loss. So if it has been linked to heart disease, diabetes, high cholesterol, etc...then I don't eat it on a frequent basis and avoid as much as possible.
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Our national health boards are medically conservative for a reason. Why is it that they are ready to weigh in on complex carbohydrates?
Context. Within the context of the average diet eaten by the average American there are too many refined carbs (specifically white bread and added sugar and the like) and not enough fiber, so an easy fix to recommend is subbing some whole grains for the refined flour products, and doing that also tends to limit the sugary ones, which are invariably make with white flour, etc.
But the points I made above seem valid to me and relevant to this discussion. Do you disagree with them? If so, I'd be curious as to how.0 -
tealfoxonfire wrote: »Uhhh...wow. Setting aside the obvious 'healthy' and 'not healthy' aspect of asparagus versus pizza, 'healthy' foods are foods that do not harm your body.
Eating ice creams to fill my caloric intakw will give me diabetes. Eating pizza, pasta, and ice cream gave my father triple bypass surgery. Even if you work off the calories, some foods can and will leave behind more than just calories.
Its about balance. I don't stuff myself with cheesy breadsticks and cinnamon with frosting dip, but I have pizza when I want it. I also don't have it all the time, because that isn't balanced.
But you know what, let bad advice and stupidity weed out the population, lol, in my opinion its better for the gene pool.
how do you know it was those specific foods? How do you know it was not hereditary? Or maybe due to lack of exercise and over eating? Food type is not going to kill you...overindulgence will.
No one is making the argument that one should "stuff themselves" with cheese breadsticks and pizza" < perhaps that is why your father had to have triple bypass????0 -
Why..u mad? LoL , I'm proud of my health and the example I set for my children, so you can hate all you want.loljofjltncb6 wrote: »LOL I've worked hard to get in the physical condition I'm in so no need to preach to me lol, and OBVIOUSLY THE MORE YOU EAT HEALTHY AND THE MORE YOU EXERCISE THE HEALTHIER YOU WILL BE. That's all I have to say! interpret it however you want.
So you believe in extra credit for excess nutrition?
Got it.
Do I sound mad?
I disagree that you get extra credit for excess micronutrients. No hate.
Are you implying that the example I set for my children is not good?0 -
Food has no context.
I don't know what is in carbonara. Tasted it, didn't like it. Can't discuss it.lemurcat12 wrote: »Food has no context. Broccoli doesn't cease to be broccoli on a dinner plate because you had an Oreo at lunch. It won't become and orange or an ice cream cone. Broccoli is still broccoli no matter what else you have eaten. If you took one tiny broccoli crumb and tossed it into a pile of corn, the broccoli crumb is still broccoli.
But the point is that whether broccoli is a better choice than, say, some shortribs or a bowl of pasta carbonara depends on context. Some would say (including you I would guess, but will let you say) that the broccoli is always better, because those foods are high fat (high saturated fat, even) and lower in micronutrient content, but if you've mostly eaten fruits and veggies that day I think either would be a better choice than more broccoli. You probably need the calories and certainly need fat and protein.
Now, more often than not, people easily get enough fat, and don't have that much trouble coming up with better sources of protein (per calorie, no value judgment here) than the dishes referenced, and might be short on vegetables and, to a lesser degree, fruits and other sources of fiber, so it's easily to assume that those foods are per se healthy and the others ones to avoid, but it's really the overall mix that matters, not the specific foods. At least, not unless the food is actively unhealthy, which for me means certain things like transfats (and more, but I'm not really interested in getting into a debate about this). From what you've written I get the sense that you consider a healthy diet much lower fat, especially low sat. fat, and also low sodium, whereas I am not so concerned about those things (in the context of my overall diet), so an individual food that brings you over your limit of those could reasonably be considered unhealthy by you and not by me, but again I think that's context.
Food isn't different based on what one person eats. The fact that I'm allergic to bananas doesn't make the bananas unhealthy. The bananas are fine. The fact that I cannot eat them doesn't make them unhealthy per se.
I need to keep my fat low. That doesn't change the fat. The fat remains the same.
The food has no context. It cannot be changed. If people think about what they ate earlier today, the food sitting on the plate does not change.
Nothing anyone thinks has any effect on the food itself. The food does not change.
wow, you totally do not understand dietary context do you?
None of what you say or think will change the food itself.
ummmm I know you don't read so well but read what I said "dietary context"...there is no food in dietary...-2 -
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »To me healthy foods are foods that BOTH provide something your body needs (other than calories, because nobody on this site is in a situation where they might literally starve to death and could therefore call any food healthy) AND doesn't contain excessive amounts of anything that has been shown to negatively impact health. Now what I might consider "excessive" amounts might differ from someone else's definition, but oh well...that's a topic for a different thread.
I view it in the context of overall health...not just weight loss. So if it has been linked to heart disease, diabetes, high cholesterol, etc...then I don't eat it on a frequent basis and avoid as much as possible.
oh hey this guy ..
did you ever locate that AJA study on sugar causing heart disease that you were referencing????0 -
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tealfoxonfire wrote: »Uhhh...wow. Setting aside the obvious 'healthy' and 'not healthy' aspect of asparagus versus pizza, 'healthy' foods are foods that do not harm your body.
Eating ice creams to fill my caloric intakw will give me diabetes. Eating pizza, pasta, and ice cream gave my father triple bypass surgery. Even if you work off the calories, some foods can and will leave behind more than just calories.
Its about balance. I don't stuff myself with cheesy breadsticks and cinnamon with frosting dip, but I have pizza when I want it. I also don't have it all the time, because that isn't balanced.
But you know what, let bad advice and stupidity weed out the population, lol, in my opinion its better for the gene pool.
Just shaking my head on this one.
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JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein. And yet again, you misunderstood the question. The question is this. Which of the two if you ate for a month, would you be better off with at the end of the month. The question isn't if one would be an unhealthy choice. The question is which would be more healthy or unhealthy for you.
Neither one. Because if you ate a diet of a 100% broccoli or 100% doritos for a month or two you probably end up in the hospital with either. That's why neither should be done and both comparisons are ridiculous.
I disagree that one wouldn't be better than the other. You continued the argument, then once cornered, you went off on another tangent. Congrats. After considering the last two nutritional labels, I'd go with broccoli. but in reality, I wouldn't eat just one.
But you know what? Because of this, you now know broccoli has protein.
Right, you think you're teaching me something? I'm going to eat 30 servings of broccoli in order to get my protein requirements. While at the same time getting no fat. Makes sense. Please try again if you think an all broccoli diet for a month or 2 wouldn't land you in the hospital. You really are clueless.
I'm the clueless one. Who here didn't know broccoli didn't contain protein? And what data do you have that shows that eating broccoli would land you in a hospital after 1 or 2 months? I'm not saying it wouldn't, I'm asking for how you are coming to those time frames
I didn't know broccoli contained protein ? Ummmm, yeah okay. If that's what you want to think. I don't know that you are the one that thinks either one of those 2 examples would be acceptable for a month, 2 months, whatever. Then you ask for studies showing that. Lol. You are clearly just trolling at this point.
Hahaha. You said "wow, just wow". That was supposed to mean how much protein broccoli has? Come on man.
And again, no one said it would be acceptable. I CLEARLY asked you for data that proves that eating just one of the other would land you in a hospital in 1 or 2 months. You have NO problem asking for proof of other people's statements so I'm asking you for yours0 -
tealfoxonfire wrote: »Uhhh...wow. Setting aside the obvious 'healthy' and 'not healthy' aspect of asparagus versus pizza, 'healthy' foods are foods that do not harm your body.
Eating ice creams to fill my caloric intakw will give me diabetes. Eating pizza, pasta, and ice cream gave my father triple bypass surgery. Even if you work off the calories, some foods can and will leave behind more than just calories.
Its about balance. I don't stuff myself with cheesy breadsticks and cinnamon with frosting dip, but I have pizza when I want it. I also don't have it all the time, because that isn't balanced.
But you know what, let bad advice and stupidity weed out the population, lol, in my opinion its better for the gene pool.
how do you know it was those specific foods? How do you know it was not hereditary? Or maybe due to lack of exercise and over eating? Food type is not going to kill you...overindulgence will.
No one is making the argument that one should "stuff themselves" with cheese breadsticks and pizza" < perhaps that is why your father had to have triple bypass????
Gonna go make me a pizza now.
Ate a pizza, got a Darwin award
Too bad I already procreated, shucks, folks. We so dium.0 -
I don't know what is in carbonara. Tasted it, didn't like it. Can't discuss it.lemurcat12 wrote: »Food has no context. Broccoli doesn't cease to be broccoli on a dinner plate because you had an Oreo at lunch. It won't become and orange or an ice cream cone. Broccoli is still broccoli no matter what else you have eaten. If you took one tiny broccoli crumb and tossed it into a pile of corn, the broccoli crumb is still broccoli.
But the point is that whether broccoli is a better choice than, say, some shortribs or a bowl of pasta carbonara depends on context. Some would say (including you I would guess, but will let you say) that the broccoli is always better, because those foods are high fat (high saturated fat, even) and lower in micronutrient content, but if you've mostly eaten fruits and veggies that day I think either would be a better choice than more broccoli. You probably need the calories and certainly need fat and protein.
Now, more often than not, people easily get enough fat, and don't have that much trouble coming up with better sources of protein (per calorie, no value judgment here) than the dishes referenced, and might be short on vegetables and, to a lesser degree, fruits and other sources of fiber, so it's easily to assume that those foods are per se healthy and the others ones to avoid, but it's really the overall mix that matters, not the specific foods. At least, not unless the food is actively unhealthy, which for me means certain things like transfats (and more, but I'm not really interested in getting into a debate about this). From what you've written I get the sense that you consider a healthy diet much lower fat, especially low sat. fat, and also low sodium, whereas I am not so concerned about those things (in the context of my overall diet), so an individual food that brings you over your limit of those could reasonably be considered unhealthy by you and not by me, but again I think that's context.
Eggs, cheese, bacon, pasta. It's delicious if made correctly. Well, in my opinion, of course. I rarely make it these days, however.Food isn't different based on what one person eats. The fact that I'm allergic to bananas doesn't make the bananas unhealthy. The bananas are fine. The fact that I cannot eat them doesn't make them unhealthy per se.
This all comes down to what it means to call a food "healthy" or "unhealthy." IMO, it doesn't mean much unless connected to the overall context--whether it would be good for a person or bad for a person given everything else. Beyond that, I'd say the only reasonable definition would be "hurts humans in and of itself" and "doesn't hurt humans in and of itself" and that really leaves out most of the foods (like my homemade apple pie with a scoop of vanilla ice cream) that it seems that some here want to call unhealthy.I need to keep my fat low. That doesn't change the fat. The fat remains the same.
So that's not a basis for calling it unhealthy? Isn't that the fair answer?
(I mean, I don't really care. I know what people mean when they call a food unhealthy and it doesn't much bother me, but I still think it's kind of meaningless unless discussed in the context of an overall diet. A piece of steak might make a diet healthier or it might make it less healthy, depending.) On its own it's neutral.
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The point is neither one would work. Neither plan would be a good idea. They would both be stupid. They would both be unhealthy. And they would both likely land you in the hospital.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein
Wow just wow.
Isn't it?
Yes, broccoli does have protein. But, this is where context matters. You would have to eat so much broccoli to hit any kind of real protein and calorie numbers that you would be sick before you could get halfway there....
Now, after weighing these two, I'd just like to say we are so lucky to have the resources we have so that we don't have to make such a choice.
You know this (because you mentioned it), I know this because I posted that rather large picture. You need to tell MM there. He seems quite flabbergasted
Well, no. I see what he is saying. For the amount of broccoli you would have to eat to hit a reasonable target, it changes the benefit. It would be much easier to hit his protein target with Doritos.
For that particular macro, yes.
And for dietary fat.
What type of doritos? Don't you think by the time he hit his protein goal, he'd likely be over by a quite a bit on the other macros?
This.
But, if I HAD to choose, which thank goodness I don't, I would personally feel more comfortable with the Doritos because at least I'm hitting all three macros to some extent.
But, really, ugh to both.0 -
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JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein. And yet again, you misunderstood the question. The question is this. Which of the two if you ate for a month, would you be better off with at the end of the month. The question isn't if one would be an unhealthy choice. The question is which would be more healthy or unhealthy for you.
Neither one. Because if you ate a diet of a 100% broccoli or 100% doritos for a month or two you probably end up in the hospital with either. That's why neither should be done and both comparisons are ridiculous.
I disagree that one wouldn't be better than the other. You continued the argument, then once cornered, you went off on another tangent. Congrats. After considering the last two nutritional labels, I'd go with broccoli. but in reality, I wouldn't eat just one.
But you know what? Because of this, you now know broccoli has protein.
Right, you think you're teaching me something? I'm going to eat 30 servings of broccoli in order to get my protein requirements. While at the same time getting no fat. Makes sense. Please try again if you think an all broccoli diet for a month or 2 wouldn't land you in the hospital. You really are clueless.
I'm the clueless one. Who here didn't know broccoli didn't contain protein? And what data do you have that shows that eating broccoli would land you in a hospital after 1 or 2 months? I'm not saying it wouldn't, I'm asking for how you are coming to those time frames
I didn't know broccoli contained protein ? Ummmm, yeah okay. If that's what you want to think. I don't know that you are the one that thinks either one of those 2 examples would be acceptable for a month, 2 months, whatever. Then you ask for studies showing that. Lol. You are clearly just trolling at this point.
Hahaha. You said "wow, just wow". That was supposed to mean how much protein broccoli has? Come on man.
Yea that's exactly what wow just wow meant. Lol. If that's what you think it meant then I clearly chose the proper response to your post with that one.
The backpedaling is strong in this one.0 -
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The point is neither one would work. Neither plan would be a good idea. They would both be stupid. They would both be unhealthy. And they would both likely land you in the hospital.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein
Wow just wow.
Isn't it?
Yes, broccoli does have protein. But, this is where context matters. You would have to eat so much broccoli to hit any kind of real protein and calorie numbers that you would be sick before you could get halfway there....
Now, after weighing these two, I'd just like to say we are so lucky to have the resources we have so that we don't have to make such a choice.
You know this (because you mentioned it), I know this because I posted that rather large picture. You need to tell MM there. He seems quite flabbergasted
Well, no. I see what he is saying. For the amount of broccoli you would have to eat to hit a reasonable target, it changes the benefit. It would be much easier to hit his protein target with Doritos.
For that particular macro, yes.
And for dietary fat.
What type of doritos? Don't you think by the time he hit his protein goal, he'd likely be over by a quite a bit on the other macros?
A lot of nonsensical back and forth to try and make a point everyone likely already agrees on. Except for the hospital part. I'm not convinced eating only Doritos for a month would require hospitalization for most people.
I do think that if this nonsensical criteria of eating only broccoli or only Doritos for a month were a valid way to determine whether a food is healthy or not, that Doritos would likely win.0 -
Not sure who is worse or more annoying the hysterical "sugar is the devil" crowd or the "ermagerd processed, chemicalz, toxins" in the food hypochondriacs.
But there are ingredients we use in the U.S. that are banned in other countries because they've been proven harmful. Does it really make someone a hypochondriac to say 'I don't want to eat that' or 'that is an unhealthy food' simply because it contains known carcinogens, or other toxic chemicals (or ermagerd chemicalz). I don't think it's bad to have a healthy fear of unnatural things in food.
This is not sarcasm or whatever you want to call it but whI have ingredients is it you're speaking of. That's a real question. Don't worry I still have plenty of time to be sarcastic and condescending in other posts. But not this one. So please tell me which toxic chemicals those are.
BVO is linked to growth defects and hearing loss and is in a lot of citrus flavored soda. That's the first that comes to mind. I would consider that to be toxic.
I realize there are 'toxic' substances in all food. Even natural food, even water. But there are some that I personally would consider more dangerous than others. I still don't think that avoiding something even the FDA (which I have very little faith in) claims can be hazardous, makes me a hypochondriac.
Got any more?
How many need to be listed before it's socially acceptable to worry about what's in your food? How many are ok? Does it just have to do with how they affect you? I kind of feel like not having deformed babies is important. Call me crazy
Wow...just wow.0 -
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a month of broccoli?
good lord- i would hate to be the plumber for THAT house!!! OIYBecause it is extremely high calorie, high sugar, and high fat for little volume and not a great deal of nutritional value. To be honest I didn't choose the ice cream metaphor, and don't find ice cream to be nearly as unhealthy as, say, a can of coke, but in comparison to a bunch of kale YES ice cream offers less nutritional value.
so much sadness and wrongess here.
also this: kale vs ice cream?
seriously?
no questions- the kales' in the trash- it's rubbish awful food. You want to talk about 'unhealthy' anything that tastes that bad before you put int your pie hole should never be considered healthy- much less a "super food"
PS Eff you women's health for making kale a thing.
seriously. die.0 -
a month of broccoli?
good lord- i would hate to be the plumber for THAT house!!! OIYBecause it is extremely high calorie, high sugar, and high fat for little volume and not a great deal of nutritional value. To be honest I didn't choose the ice cream metaphor, and don't find ice cream to be nearly as unhealthy as, say, a can of coke, but in comparison to a bunch of kale YES ice cream offers less nutritional value.
so much sadness and wrongess here.
also this: kale vs ice cream?
seriously?
no questions- the kales' in the trash- it's rubbish awful food. You want to talk about 'unhealthy' anything that tastes that bad before you put int your pie hole should never be considered healthy- much less a "super food"
PS Eff you women's health for making kale a thing.
seriously. die.
I really like kale....*ducks*0 -
chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »tiffaniedemayo wrote: »I have to agree with "Goldthistime": I define healthy food as nutrient dense foods, with limited amounts of salt, sugar and fat. Meaning vegetables, lean meats, fruits and whole grains. I define junk as nutrient sparse food with lots of salt sugar or fat. Meaning chips, cheezies, candy, donuts, onion rings etc.
ok - so here is the question ...if you had a diet containing both and hit your goals does that mean that buy eating chips, cheezies, or whatever combination thereof then makes your day "unhealthy"?
No, for 99.9% of the population, it doesn't matter. For the 0.1% of the population (or less) that is seriously training to compete at an elite level of athletic competition, then yes, it would matter.
I don't believe anyone here fits into the latter.
No, it does not automatically make an elite level athletes day unhealthy. In fact, it is less likely to be unhealthy.
You're right. I got out of context. It will not make their diet less healthy, but when they are in training, it could very well hamper their performance. The months approaching a competition like, say, they Olympics, they will get extremely strict with their diet, trying to get every little bit of performance out of their food and body.
That's why you see them going nuts right after they're finished the competition.
You are making some very broad, and I would suggest, incorrect assumptions there.0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein. And yet again, you misunderstood the question. The question is this. Which of the two if you ate for a month, would you be better off with at the end of the month. The question isn't if one would be an unhealthy choice. The question is which would be more healthy or unhealthy for you.
Neither one. Because if you ate a diet of a 100% broccoli or 100% doritos for a month or two you probably end up in the hospital with either. That's why neither should be done and both comparisons are ridiculous.
I disagree that one wouldn't be better than the other. You continued the argument, then once cornered, you went off on another tangent. Congrats. After considering the last two nutritional labels, I'd go with broccoli. but in reality, I wouldn't eat just one.
But you know what? Because of this, you now know broccoli has protein.
Right, you think you're teaching me something? I'm going to eat 30 servings of broccoli in order to get my protein requirements. While at the same time getting no fat. Makes sense. Please try again if you think an all broccoli diet for a month or 2 wouldn't land you in the hospital. You really are clueless.
I'm the clueless one. Who here didn't know broccoli didn't contain protein? And what data do you have that shows that eating broccoli would land you in a hospital after 1 or 2 months? I'm not saying it wouldn't, I'm asking for how you are coming to those time frames
I didn't know broccoli contained protein ? Ummmm, yeah okay. If that's what you want to think. I don't know that you are the one that thinks either one of those 2 examples would be acceptable for a month, 2 months, whatever. Then you ask for studies showing that. Lol. You are clearly just trolling at this point.
Hahaha. You said "wow, just wow". That was supposed to mean how much protein broccoli has? Come on man.
Yea that's exactly what wow just wow meant. Lol. If that's what you think it meant then I clearly chose the proper response to your post with that one.
The backpedaling is strong in this one.
Oh yes because your lack of understanding that wow was the best response to the level of derp your postes is why you would see it as back peddling. It's okay, I can't blame you for being you.
No. I just stated broccoli has protein. You stated "wow, just wow". Explain exactly what you meant.
But we all know you thought it did not have protein and your just backpedalling. Not only that, you are ignoring the question about how you know that eating broccoli for 1-2 months = hospital. Take your time on this one0 -
a month of broccoli?
good lord- i would hate to be the plumber for THAT house!!! OIYBecause it is extremely high calorie, high sugar, and high fat for little volume and not a great deal of nutritional value. To be honest I didn't choose the ice cream metaphor, and don't find ice cream to be nearly as unhealthy as, say, a can of coke, but in comparison to a bunch of kale YES ice cream offers less nutritional value.
so much sadness and wrongess here.
also this: kale vs ice cream?
seriously?
no questions- the kales' in the trash- it's rubbish awful food. You want to talk about 'unhealthy' anything that tastes that bad before you put int your pie hole should never be considered healthy- much less a "super food"
PS Eff you women's health for making kale a thing.
seriously. die.
I really like kale....*ducks*
get out.
we can't be friends any more
<cries>0 -
a month of broccoli?
good lord- i would hate to be the plumber for THAT house!!! OIYBecause it is extremely high calorie, high sugar, and high fat for little volume and not a great deal of nutritional value. To be honest I didn't choose the ice cream metaphor, and don't find ice cream to be nearly as unhealthy as, say, a can of coke, but in comparison to a bunch of kale YES ice cream offers less nutritional value.
so much sadness and wrongess here.
also this: kale vs ice cream?
seriously?
no questions- the kales' in the trash- it's rubbish awful food. You want to talk about 'unhealthy' anything that tastes that bad before you put int your pie hole should never be considered healthy- much less a "super food"
PS Eff you women's health for making kale a thing.
seriously. die.
You obviously haven't had kale made correctly. I have a fabulous recipe that involves bacon, bacon grease and blue cheese crumbles. I guarantee if I made it you wouldn't even know you were eating kale.0
This discussion has been closed.
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