Define "healthy" food...
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JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein
Wow just wow.
Isn't it?
Yes, broccoli does have protein. But, this is where context matters. You would have to eat so much broccoli to hit any kind of real protein and calorie numbers that you would be sick before you could get halfway there....
Now, after weighing these two, I'd just like to say we are so lucky to have the resources we have so that we don't have to make such a choice.
You know this (because you mentioned it), I know this because I posted that rather large picture. You need to tell MM there. He seems quite flabbergasted0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein. And yet again, you misunderstood the question. The question is this. Which of the two if you ate for a month, would you be better off with at the end of the month. The question isn't if one would be an unhealthy choice. The question is which would be more healthy or unhealthy for you.
Neither one. Because if you ate a diet of a 100% broccoli or 100% doritos for a month or two you probably end up in the hospital with either. That's why neither should be done and both comparisons are ridiculous.
I disagree that one wouldn't be better than the other. You continued the argument, then once cornered, you went off on another tangent. Congrats. After considering the last two nutritional labels, I'd go with broccoli. but in reality, I wouldn't eat just one.
But you know what? Because of this, you now know broccoli has protein.
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JeffseekingV wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein. And yet again, you misunderstood the question. The question is this. Which of the two if you ate for a month, would you be better off with at the end of the month. The question isn't if one would be an unhealthy choice. The question is which would be more healthy or unhealthy for you.
60 cups per day to hit my objective. It's ridiculous to consider it a viable protein source in that context.
The answer is neither. The answer is "the question is stupid."
I didn't poise the question. I only answered it. And the answer isn't "neither". There should be one that is actually going to net you more benefit.
Neither will. You'll be sick within a week if you only ate one or the other, ad librium.
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Uhhh...wow. Setting aside the obvious 'healthy' and 'not healthy' aspect of asparagus versus pizza, 'healthy' foods are foods that do not harm your body.
Eating ice creams to fill my caloric intakw will give me diabetes. Eating pizza, pasta, and ice cream gave my father triple bypass surgery. Even if you work off the calories, some foods can and will leave behind more than just calories.
Its about balance. I don't stuff myself with cheesy breadsticks and cinnamon with frosting dip, but I have pizza when I want it. I also don't have it all the time, because that isn't balanced.
But you know what, let bad advice and stupidity weed out the population, lol, in my opinion its better for the gene pool.0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein
Wow just wow.
Isn't it?
Yes, broccoli does have protein. But, this is where context matters. You would have to eat so much broccoli to hit any kind of real protein and calorie numbers that you would be sick before you could get halfway there....
Now, after weighing these two, I'd just like to say we are so lucky to have the resources we have so that we don't have to make such a choice.
You know this (because you mentioned it), I know this because I posted that rather large picture. You need to tell MM there. He seems quite flabbergasted
Well, no. I see what he is saying. For the amount of broccoli you would have to eat to hit a reasonable target, it changes the benefit. It would be much easier to hit his protein target with Doritos.0 -
^that
Everyone lost.fearlessleader104 wrote: »so who won?
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JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein. And yet again, you misunderstood the question. The question is this. Which of the two if you ate for a month, would you be better off with at the end of the month. The question isn't if one would be an unhealthy choice. The question is which would be more healthy or unhealthy for you.
Neither one. Because if you ate a diet of a 100% broccoli or 100% doritos for a month or two you probably end up in the hospital with either. That's why neither should be done and both comparisons are ridiculous.
I'm nauseated just thinking about it.0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein
Wow just wow.
Isn't it?
Yes, broccoli does have protein. But, this is where context matters. You would have to eat so much broccoli to hit any kind of real protein and calorie numbers that you would be sick before you could get halfway there....
Now, after weighing these two, I'd just like to say we are so lucky to have the resources we have so that we don't have to make such a choice.
You know this (because you mentioned it), I know this because I posted that rather large picture. You need to tell MM there. He seems quite flabbergasted
Well, no. I see what he is saying. For the amount of broccoli you would have to eat to hit a reasonable target, it changes the benefit. It would be much easier to hit his protein target with Doritos.
For that particular macro, yes.0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein
Wow just wow.
Isn't it?
Yes, broccoli does have protein. But, this is where context matters. You would have to eat so much broccoli to hit any kind of real protein and calorie numbers that you would be sick before you could get halfway there....
Now, after weighing these two, I'd just like to say we are so lucky to have the resources we have so that we don't have to make such a choice.
You know this (because you mentioned it), I know this because I posted that rather large picture. You need to tell MM there. He seems quite flabbergasted
Well, no. I see what he is saying. For the amount of broccoli you would have to eat to hit a reasonable target, it changes the benefit. It would be much easier to hit his protein target with Doritos.
For that particular macro, yes.
And for dietary fat.0 -
Also, fat off a chicken skin, and fat from an avocado are a little different in the realm of fats. I'll eat plenty of cherries and avocados, but I won't be sucking chicken skins off the meat like Cartman.0
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
Get out of here with you ridiculous argument.JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »DesdemonaRose wrote: »Wow, are there people who really don't know what a empty calorie is? Soda is a empty calorie, it gives you zero nutrients that your body can use. Depending on what ice-cream you buy, it can have things like protein and calcium (from the dairy). So, some might consider it empty because it's usually seen as a treat, but it's not a completely empty calorie if it has dairy, soy, or something else in it with some nutritional value.
Don't forget genes, they play a pretty big role in how long you live. That is why grandma can smoke till she's 100 but the guy down the street died from lung cancer at 35.
Obviously what is "healthy," is debatable, but if you only ate Doritos for a month you would probably feel a bit *kitten* by the end of the month and might even have a vitamin deficiency or two. If you don't look outside of Western societies where we tend to eat a variety and everything is fortified then it might seem like it doesn't matter. But, take a look at populations with limited food supplies and it matters to them. You really can have a vitamin or nutrient deficiency. There are people in America who die from malnutrition, just not very many. As long as there is some variety in your life then you are probably good, even if that variety is Taco Bell one day and McDonald's the next. There are a lot of studies that show excessive consumption of some things can cause earlier death in some populations. But, of course, genes play a role and the debate of which matters more is still plenty there. Nutrition is a newer science and there are a lot of variables.
Malnutrition Death Rates by Country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
Ever drank a coke pre or post training? I'm going to assume you haven't.
What ice cream has no calcium or protein?
You used the example that if we only ate Doritos for a month then we would feel bad and have a deficiency or 2. Now, who eats only Doritos all day every day and nothing else. It's amazing how often you people use extreme examples like this to prove no point. A point you don't have. It's ridiculous. Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli. You opened your statement by saying you were surprised at the fact that people don't know what empty calories are but you don't even understand nutrition so should you really be that surprised?
From a nutrient value only, I'd probably be better off eating broccoli than Doritos all month.
Really? Because Broccoli provides us with all of the nutrients we need?
No. Because broccoli will stand a better chance at providing more nutrients we need vs doritos. That's just a guess on my part. But I never said either would provide all nutrients we need and never implied it. The issue here was eating ONE food for a month. Doritos or broccoli.
You know what? Why not address the question when you get called out instead of attempting to flame yourself out of the question poised to you. It was you that that presented the question.
Let's say this, don't you think it would be just as bad if someone at pure broccoli all month, nothing but broccoli
Well let's see, where will you get dietary fat and protein from?
Then you said:
It is debatable. the fact that broccoli doesn't have dietary fat doesn't mean it's the worse choice of the two over a month's time.
You really think it's debatable that it's unhealthy to go without protein or fat for a month or 2?
Broccoli has protein. And yet again, you misunderstood the question. The question is this. Which of the two if you ate for a month, would you be better off with at the end of the month. The question isn't if one would be an unhealthy choice. The question is which would be more healthy or unhealthy for you.
60 cups per day to hit my objective. It's ridiculous to consider it a viable protein source in that context.
The answer is neither. The answer is "the question is stupid."
I didn't poise the question. I only answered it. And the answer isn't "neither". There should be one that is actually going to net you more benefit.
Neither will. You'll be sick within a week if you only ate one or the other, ad librium.
Interesting. Do you have a study or data that only after one week, one would become sick from eating either one?0 -
I don't know what is in carbonara. Tasted it, didn't like it. Can't discuss it.lemurcat12 wrote: »Food has no context. Broccoli doesn't cease to be broccoli on a dinner plate because you had an Oreo at lunch. It won't become and orange or an ice cream cone. Broccoli is still broccoli no matter what else you have eaten. If you took one tiny broccoli crumb and tossed it into a pile of corn, the broccoli crumb is still broccoli.
But the point is that whether broccoli is a better choice than, say, some shortribs or a bowl of pasta carbonara depends on context. Some would say (including you I would guess, but will let you say) that the broccoli is always better, because those foods are high fat (high saturated fat, even) and lower in micronutrient content, but if you've mostly eaten fruits and veggies that day I think either would be a better choice than more broccoli. You probably need the calories and certainly need fat and protein.
Now, more often than not, people easily get enough fat, and don't have that much trouble coming up with better sources of protein (per calorie, no value judgment here) than the dishes referenced, and might be short on vegetables and, to a lesser degree, fruits and other sources of fiber, so it's easily to assume that those foods are per se healthy and the others ones to avoid, but it's really the overall mix that matters, not the specific foods. At least, not unless the food is actively unhealthy, which for me means certain things like transfats (and more, but I'm not really interested in getting into a debate about this). From what you've written I get the sense that you consider a healthy diet much lower fat, especially low sat. fat, and also low sodium, whereas I am not so concerned about those things (in the context of my overall diet), so an individual food that brings you over your limit of those could reasonably be considered unhealthy by you and not by me, but again I think that's context.
Food isn't different based on what one person eats. The fact that I'm allergic to bananas doesn't make the bananas unhealthy. The bananas are fine. The fact that I cannot eat them doesn't make them unhealthy per se.
I need to keep my fat low. That doesn't change the fat. The fat remains the same.
The food has no context. It cannot be changed. If people think about what they ate earlier today, the food sitting on the plate does not change.
Nothing anyone thinks has any effect on the food itself. The food does not change.
wow, you totally do not understand dietary context do you? why do you "need" to keep fat low? do you have a medical condition? Or is that just taht fat is "bad" in your mind..
0 -
squirrelzzrule22 wrote: »It would be similarly ludicrous to suggest that someone cannot be HEALTHY and eat UNHEALTHY foods sometimes.
However, a person cannot be HEALTHY and eat ONLY EXCLUSIVELY UNHEALTHY foods. (capitals for emphasis, not sass.)
Here is my simplified example:
Op said something along the lines of "I've hit my macros/micros for the day, why can't I have a donut?" No one is saying you can't. Go right ahead. Enjoy.
But if donuts were ALL you ate, you'd get pretty sick pretty quickly even if you ate them within a calorie limit. Now, in the context of WEIGHT LOSS, you would still lose weight eating 1000 calories of donuts per day and nothing else. But you would also be hungry, iron deficient, calcium deficient, protein deficient, etc.
If you eat a relatively balanced diet there is absolutely no reason you can't indulge in unhealthy treats. But suggesting that in the abstract a can of coke is as healthy as a bowl of raw kale is downright silly. I think most of the people suggesting this are trying to use semantics to make a controversial argument and fluff some feathers.
Someone a while back brought up the recommend diet for women during pregnancy, and it was dismissed as "well that's one of the only times it is reasonable to consider those things." I understand pregnant women need a greater amount of certain nutrients, like folic acid, etc, but I don't understand the logic of dismissing the implications of eating a better diet during pregnancy. Think about it this way- if you wouldn't want it going into the body of your growing child, why would you want it going into your own body? My personal answer? I don't, but I'm still going to have treats occasionally when I want to.
I don't have a problem with calling certain foods unhealthy or healthy in casual speech, although I'm more likely to say "indulgent" or "fattening" or some such (yes, not strictly fattening either if one has a deficit, of course) instead of "unhealthy" if I mean something like pie, which I honestly don't consider unhealthy.
That brings us to the question, which is how are you defining unhealthy? For me, it must mean a food which is actively bad for you. Penicillin is unhealthy for me, since I'm allergic (I don't have any food allergies that I'm aware of). I suspect transfats and HFCS could be considered bad for me, so I avoid them (I'm not interested in debating, it's used for the sake of the broader point). But something like a homemade cookie with sugar and butter? It's not bad for me, so I wouldn't say it's unhealthy. Now, if eaten to the exclusion of other things or so that I gain weight unhealthily? Sure, but that's a separate issue, and the same could be said for chicken or wholewheat bread.
I'm not saying there's not a way to define unhealthy so that labeling a cookie as such would make sense--although I'd want to discuss it, probably--but it's not consistent with how I understand the term "eating it is bad for your health."
Re the diet of pregnant women, the main difference, other than prenatals is that certain foods are avoided, but of course that's because of risks that would be more catastrophic to the fetus than to a healthy adult or even child. Like with lunch meat and listeria. (Same reason pregnant women aren't supposed to clean a cat box.) Beyond that, you seem to be talking about the benefits of an overall healthy diet, and that's a separate issue (and important, I agree).0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »
From this chart, I would guess that I'd be better off after a month with this vs Doritos. In my opinion.0 -
If I eat an "unhealthy" food, but am made no less healthy as a result...
...is it truly an unhealthy food?0 -
squirrelzzrule22 wrote: »squirrelzzrule22 wrote: »squirrelzzrule22 wrote: »It is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that some foods are not healthier than others.
It would be similarly ludicrous to suggest that someone cannot be HEALTHY and eat UNHEALTHY foods sometimes.
However, a person cannot be HEALTHY and eat ONLY EXCLUSIVELY UNHEALTHY foods. (capitals for emphasis, not sass.)
Here is my simplified example:
Op said something along the lines of "I've hit my macros/micros for the day, why can't I have a donut?" No one is saying you can't. Go right ahead. Enjoy.
But if donuts were ALL you ate, you'd get pretty sick pretty quickly even if you ate them within a calorie limit. Now, in the context of WEIGHT LOSS, you would still lose weight eating 1000 calories of donuts per day and nothing else. But you would also be hungry, iron deficient, calcium deficient, protein deficient, etc.
If you eat a relatively balanced diet there is absolutely no reason you can't indulge in unhealthy treats. But suggesting that in the abstract a can of coke is as healthy as a bowl of raw kale is downright silly. I think most of the people suggesting this are trying to use semantics to make a controversial argument and fluff some feathers.
Someone a while back brought up the recommend diet for women during pregnancy, and it was dismissed as "well that's one of the only times it is reasonable to consider those things." I understand pregnant women need a greater amount of certain nutrients, like folic acid, etc, but I don't understand the logic of dismissing the implications of eating a better diet during pregnancy. Think about it this way- if you wouldn't want it going into the body of your growing child, why would you want it going into your own body? My personal answer? I don't, but I'm still going to have treats occasionally when I want to.
Also, and this is an aside to the main point, given that this is a weight loss website I think it is important to note that it is MUCH easier to overeat on UNHEALTHY foods for most people. Most (not all, but most) people to not become obese by eating a diet comprised solely of HEALTHY foods. That is something that I think deserves consideration in this debate.
This whole debate is a little like saying the following: Is smoking healthy? NO. Can a smoker BE a healthy person? YES. What determines whether or not that individual ends up dying at a young age of cancer? Who knows, it is a toss up. Some smokers will live to be 100. But many of us feel like we'd rather not take the risk.
why is the healthy eating crews immediate fall back to ALWAYS build a straw man argument about having 100% of your diet from donuts. No one is advocating that.
so if I eat kale, and ice cream and I have fulfilled micro/macro/calorie goals does that convert the ice cream from unhealthy to healthy?
No, that is absurd. Ice cream is still an unhealthy FOOD, but if it is part of an OVERALL HEALTHY DIET then it is not at all a problem to have it. I'm not sure how you are not getting that, I am not the first person to explain it.
Why is ice cream unhealthy?
Because it is extremely high calorie, high sugar, and high fat for little volume and not a great deal of nutritional value. To be honest I didn't choose the ice cream metaphor, and don't find ice cream to be nearly as unhealthy as, say, a can of coke, but in comparison to a bunch of kale YES ice cream offers less nutritional value.
But my point is not to demonize ice cream (I like ice cream) but to highlight how absurd it is to ask if kale will magically turn the ice cream into something healthy....if you read my post I suggested nothing of the sort. I started that treats are fine in moderation in a diet that is otherwise healthy. I also brought up the fact that for many people seeking to lose weight (not all, but many) moderating a treat like ice cream is incredibly difficult to do, which is a factor I believe is worth mentioning in this debate.
Edited to add: PLEASE actually read my post before you respond and I think you will see why the response makes no sense, and you will also see that HE chose ice cream as the metaphor when I had mentioned donuts and coke. Maybe you guys will think of that as the same, personally I don't find ice cream to be nearly as unhealthy as the things I ACTUALLY mentioned, which I think is why he changed it in his response. But my general point is still the same.
well I guess if you think that sugar is "bad" then that might explain why you think ice cream is unhealthy..
but you are kind of confusing. You say it is unhealthy, and then say that you like it.
so you are saying that you can eat ice cream (unhealthy) but still have a "healthy" diet?
Also, you were the one implying that some were advocating for a diet of donuts when no one in this thread ever said that one should eat 100% donuts.0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »If I eat an "unhealthy" food, but am made no less healthy as a result...
...is it truly an unhealthy food?
Yes because gwyneth paltrow said so!!!0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »
From this chart, I would guess that I'd be better off after a month with this vs Doritos. In my opinion.
Why are you using an extreme example to argue a point? I go with this being a stupid question as the answer to it too.0
This discussion has been closed.
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