Define "healthy" food...
Replies
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No, see, I wasn't being sneaky. I knew they didn't mean specific markers just from context. I knew that they had a an entirely different definition of "markers" - I just didn't know wth it was. I wasn't even sure if they had any wth they meant. You didn't have a definition and meant "general blood work."
Gotcha.
I did look. Found nothing concrete.
I'm not asking about the Twinkie diet.
When you say "health markers", what, exactly do you mean?So you're telling me if someone wanted to gain weight they could eat at McDonald's every day and still be healthy? Wash down their grease infested fries down with coke and ice cream and still be healthy?? Sounds like a one way ticket to a heart attack. No sir, that's not healthy. Your diet does matter.
google the "twinkie diet"
guy ate nothing but twinkies maintained a calorie deficit, lost weight, and had better health markers..
so yea, you can eat mcdonalds and lose weight …however, it would not be best option for body comp purposes but for fat loss it would work.
I keep asking this, people keep not telling me, lol.
I assume you mean blood tests. Which tests, specifically, constitute "health markers"?
blood work ..cholesterol and what not …
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html
go ahead and read for yourself...
I'm asking if this "health markers" phrase has some kind of agreed upon definition. "Cholesterol and whatnot" would lead me to believe it does not. Please let me know if I'm wrong.
go look it up yourself…I gave you the tools…
besides, you would benefit from educating yourself about these things.
I even asked two people who practice medicine if they knew what people were referring to when they used the phrase. They did not. They understood "markers", but that isn't how the phrase is used here. They figured it was kind of what you said, "cholesterol and whatnot" and that it meant nothing.
Markers and bands and such are generally fairly specific. They have their own names, etc.
"Health markers" - I'm starting to think it really has no meaning at all, not even to the people who use it.
Maybe it's another thing that has no meaning and everyone gets to choose for themselves what it means. Like "healthy".
so you already asked a dr in ten minutes..that is impressive..
it is generally understood to be a term dealing with general blood work and cholesterol levels….
or had you previously asked and you had a preconceived notion in your head and you were trying to be sneaky ….??
some people are so easy to read...
Lisa has another definition, with a list of things included.
I now understand that there is no consensus, no agreed upon definition for the phrase. Different people mean different things. That will allow me to understand things better in the future.
That's what I wanted to know, all along. Hence, the "gotcha" without any name-calling or mocking.0 -
This content has been removed.
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No, see, I wasn't being sneaky. I knew they didn't mean specific markers just from context. I knew that they had a an entirely different definition of "markers" - I just didn't know wth it was. I wasn't even sure if they had any wth they meant. You didn't have a definition and meant "general blood work."
Gotcha.
I did look. Found nothing concrete.
I'm not asking about the Twinkie diet.
When you say "health markers", what, exactly do you mean?So you're telling me if someone wanted to gain weight they could eat at McDonald's every day and still be healthy? Wash down their grease infested fries down with coke and ice cream and still be healthy?? Sounds like a one way ticket to a heart attack. No sir, that's not healthy. Your diet does matter.
google the "twinkie diet"
guy ate nothing but twinkies maintained a calorie deficit, lost weight, and had better health markers..
so yea, you can eat mcdonalds and lose weight …however, it would not be best option for body comp purposes but for fat loss it would work.
I keep asking this, people keep not telling me, lol.
I assume you mean blood tests. Which tests, specifically, constitute "health markers"?
blood work ..cholesterol and what not …
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html
go ahead and read for yourself...
I'm asking if this "health markers" phrase has some kind of agreed upon definition. "Cholesterol and whatnot" would lead me to believe it does not. Please let me know if I'm wrong.
go look it up yourself…I gave you the tools…
besides, you would benefit from educating yourself about these things.
I even asked two people who practice medicine if they knew what people were referring to when they used the phrase. They did not. They understood "markers", but that isn't how the phrase is used here. They figured it was kind of what you said, "cholesterol and whatnot" and that it meant nothing.
Markers and bands and such are generally fairly specific. They have their own names, etc.
"Health markers" - I'm starting to think it really has no meaning at all, not even to the people who use it.
Maybe it's another thing that has no meaning and everyone gets to choose for themselves what it means. Like "healthy".
so you already asked a dr in ten minutes..that is impressive..
it is generally understood to be a term dealing with general blood work and cholesterol levels….
or had you previously asked and you had a preconceived notion in your head and you were trying to be sneaky ….??
some people are so easy to read...
Lisa has another definition, with a list of things included.
I now understand that there is no consensus, no agreed upon definition for the phrase. Different people mean different things. That will allow me to understand things better in the future.
That's what I wanted to know, all along. Hence, the "gotcha" without any name-calling or mocking.
Here is something you should know - consensus in medicine is a thing that shifts and varies - for example, the definition of diabetes, pre-diabetes, etc varies among countries, doctors and has significantly evolved over the years.
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Anyone with the most basic understanding could guess what people mean. Knowing what they mean is different. As has already been demonstrated, there is no consensus on how the term is used here.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
I did look. Found nothing concrete.
I'm not asking about the Twinkie diet.
When you say "health markers", what, exactly do you mean?So you're telling me if someone wanted to gain weight they could eat at McDonald's every day and still be healthy? Wash down their grease infested fries down with coke and ice cream and still be healthy?? Sounds like a one way ticket to a heart attack. No sir, that's not healthy. Your diet does matter.
google the "twinkie diet"
guy ate nothing but twinkies maintained a calorie deficit, lost weight, and had better health markers..
so yea, you can eat mcdonalds and lose weight …however, it would not be best option for body comp purposes but for fat loss it would work.
I keep asking this, people keep not telling me, lol.
I assume you mean blood tests. Which tests, specifically, constitute "health markers"?
blood work ..cholesterol and what not …
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html
go ahead and read for yourself...
I'm asking if this "health markers" phrase has some kind of agreed upon definition. "Cholesterol and whatnot" would lead me to believe it does not. Please let me know if I'm wrong.
go look it up yourself…I gave you the tools…
besides, you would benefit from educating yourself about these things.
I even asked two people who practice medicine if they knew what people were referring to when they used the phrase. They did not. They understood "markers", but that isn't how the phrase is used here. They figured it was kind of what you said, "cholesterol and whatnot" and that it meant nothing.
Markers and bands and such are generally fairly specific. They have their own names, etc.
"Health markers" - I'm starting to think it really has no meaning at all, not even to the people who use it.
Maybe it's another thing that has no meaning and everyone gets to choose for themselves what it means. Like "healthy".
There is no standard set measure of "health markers" but in general terms what might be included are
Blood pressure
BF%
urine albumin
LDL/HDL
fasting plasma glucose
A1c
HbA1c
CRP
and things like VO2 max, HR return to resting, etc...
Those used in a study are defined in a protocol - if your two friends are unable to at least mention three then they don't read many articles involving health markers. The term is used in the literature.
Sometimes I take a guess as to wth people are trying to say and end up being totally off base. So now, I ask.
Some things are used incorrectly so much that you know what people mean. If someone says, "He stood right in front of him and shot him in the chest! Point blank!" ... I know they mean, "at close range" and not "pointe blank." I don't have to ask. There is a common agreement that "point blank" means "up close" even though it doesn't. I don't have to ask what they mean. I know what they mean and can immediately translate it in my head and even use the term with them.
If they say something and I don't know what they mean, around here, I have to ask. Some things, like "maintenance calories" have generally accepted definitions (with a few exceptions) and others, like "clean" and "moderation" - every single person who uses it is using it differently.0 -
Wasn't asking about that, but am totally in agreement. Dogmatic science - not my thing.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
No, see, I wasn't being sneaky. I knew they didn't mean specific markers just from context. I knew that they had a an entirely different definition of "markers" - I just didn't know wth it was. I wasn't even sure if they had any wth they meant. You didn't have a definition and meant "general blood work."
Gotcha.
I did look. Found nothing concrete.
I'm not asking about the Twinkie diet.
When you say "health markers", what, exactly do you mean?So you're telling me if someone wanted to gain weight they could eat at McDonald's every day and still be healthy? Wash down their grease infested fries down with coke and ice cream and still be healthy?? Sounds like a one way ticket to a heart attack. No sir, that's not healthy. Your diet does matter.
google the "twinkie diet"
guy ate nothing but twinkies maintained a calorie deficit, lost weight, and had better health markers..
so yea, you can eat mcdonalds and lose weight …however, it would not be best option for body comp purposes but for fat loss it would work.
I keep asking this, people keep not telling me, lol.
I assume you mean blood tests. Which tests, specifically, constitute "health markers"?
blood work ..cholesterol and what not …
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html
go ahead and read for yourself...
I'm asking if this "health markers" phrase has some kind of agreed upon definition. "Cholesterol and whatnot" would lead me to believe it does not. Please let me know if I'm wrong.
go look it up yourself…I gave you the tools…
besides, you would benefit from educating yourself about these things.
I even asked two people who practice medicine if they knew what people were referring to when they used the phrase. They did not. They understood "markers", but that isn't how the phrase is used here. They figured it was kind of what you said, "cholesterol and whatnot" and that it meant nothing.
Markers and bands and such are generally fairly specific. They have their own names, etc.
"Health markers" - I'm starting to think it really has no meaning at all, not even to the people who use it.
Maybe it's another thing that has no meaning and everyone gets to choose for themselves what it means. Like "healthy".
so you already asked a dr in ten minutes..that is impressive..
it is generally understood to be a term dealing with general blood work and cholesterol levels….
or had you previously asked and you had a preconceived notion in your head and you were trying to be sneaky ….??
some people are so easy to read...
Lisa has another definition, with a list of things included.
I now understand that there is no consensus, no agreed upon definition for the phrase. Different people mean different things. That will allow me to understand things better in the future.
That's what I wanted to know, all along. Hence, the "gotcha" without any name-calling or mocking.
Here is something you should know - consensus in medicine is a thing that shifts and varies - for example, the definition of diabetes, pre-diabetes, etc varies among countries, doctors and has significantly evolved over the years.
Again, trying to get an idea of what everyone meant or if they were using the phrase to mean different things.
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Anyone with the most basic understanding could guess what people mean. Knowing what they mean is different. As has already been demonstrated, there is no consensus on how the term is used here.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
I did look. Found nothing concrete.
I'm not asking about the Twinkie diet.
When you say "health markers", what, exactly do you mean?So you're telling me if someone wanted to gain weight they could eat at McDonald's every day and still be healthy? Wash down their grease infested fries down with coke and ice cream and still be healthy?? Sounds like a one way ticket to a heart attack. No sir, that's not healthy. Your diet does matter.
google the "twinkie diet"
guy ate nothing but twinkies maintained a calorie deficit, lost weight, and had better health markers..
so yea, you can eat mcdonalds and lose weight …however, it would not be best option for body comp purposes but for fat loss it would work.
I keep asking this, people keep not telling me, lol.
I assume you mean blood tests. Which tests, specifically, constitute "health markers"?
blood work ..cholesterol and what not …
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html
go ahead and read for yourself...
I'm asking if this "health markers" phrase has some kind of agreed upon definition. "Cholesterol and whatnot" would lead me to believe it does not. Please let me know if I'm wrong.
go look it up yourself…I gave you the tools…
besides, you would benefit from educating yourself about these things.
I even asked two people who practice medicine if they knew what people were referring to when they used the phrase. They did not. They understood "markers", but that isn't how the phrase is used here. They figured it was kind of what you said, "cholesterol and whatnot" and that it meant nothing.
Markers and bands and such are generally fairly specific. They have their own names, etc.
"Health markers" - I'm starting to think it really has no meaning at all, not even to the people who use it.
Maybe it's another thing that has no meaning and everyone gets to choose for themselves what it means. Like "healthy".
There is no standard set measure of "health markers" but in general terms what might be included are
Blood pressure
BF%
urine albumin
LDL/HDL
fasting plasma glucose
A1c
HbA1c
CRP
and things like VO2 max, HR return to resting, etc...
Those used in a study are defined in a protocol - if your two friends are unable to at least mention three then they don't read many articles involving health markers. The term is used in the literature.
Sometimes I take a guess as to wth people are trying to say and end up being totally off base. So now, I ask.
Some things are used incorrectly so much that you know what people mean. If someone says, "He stood right in front of him and shot him in the chest! Point blank!" ... I know they mean, "at close range" and not "pointe blank." I don't have to ask. There is a common agreement that "point blank" means "up close" even though it doesn't. I don't have to ask what they mean. I know what they mean and can immediately translate it in my head and even use the term with them.
If they say something and I don't know what they mean, around here, I have to ask. Some things, like "maintenance calories" have generally accepted definitions (with a few exceptions) and others, like "clean" and "moderation" - every single person who uses it is using it differently.
Yes, this is a common part of language semantics and clearly part of confusion generally generated on MFP, just like by this thread. However, even in the absence of consensus it can generally be understood that the emitter of a term actually has a construct in mind and is not just putting out jabberwocky. They mean something to them not nothing. The absence of consensus doesn't render the use of the term meaningless just that it might be confounded to the receptor.
The process of asking for clarification is valid. So someone using "health markers" should be able to tell you exactly what they, personally, include in that - and the guy that measured his "health markers" in the "twinkly" study did that - he included very specific measures of what he was evaluating (I remember that he used %bf as one...). In the same manner, it's valid to request clarification of terms like "healthy food" and when clear definitions are lacking, it's reasonable to question those definitions.
Personally, I have my own working definition of a healthy diet but certainly will not classify x or y food as patently unhealthy.
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If the definition of healthy is "whatever you want it to be", then those who say no food is healthy are right.
I think the definition of "healthy" is "has an overall positive effect on one's health." I think that of "unhealthy" is "has an overall negative effect on one's health." So that's why I have no problem calling a diet overall healthy or not, but am more skeptical of saying that about a food in a vacuum. Like I said, for most people broccoli is healthy, though. It's just not an objective quality, as I'm defining it. An objective statement that you could make about broccoli is that it is nutrient dense.If "health" and "healthy" are defined, then some foods will fit the definition and some won't.
If healthy means "nutrient dense" then sure, but I don't see why that's a better way to define healthy than what I said above. (But I am not bothered if you do--like you said before, I'm just discussing this, not arguing.)
I'd say healthy for a diet means that it promotes health and meets the person's needs and goals (including not causing inappropriate weight gain or loss). That's easier to look at rather than whether a specific food does, because of course no specific food can meet a person's needs on its own or necessarily detract from them either.Insisting that "healthy" cannot be defined will not stop others from defining words and using them according to the definitions. I'm not saying you, personally, insist that the word cannot be defined. I do routinely dismiss the idea that the word cannot be defined or applied to diets (and, by extension, individual foods, as individual foods comprise diets.)
Okay. We disagree as set forth above, but I don't see it as an especially important disagreement in reality.What I eat has nothing to do with what I think you should eat. We don't disagree about your diet. If you say it's healthy, I believe you. I'm not on a mission to make everyone eat what I eat. I don't even enjoy some of what I eat. For a long time, i didn't enjoy any of what I ate except fruit and granola, lol. I eat it because that's what I need to do. Me. Not you.
That's cool and I wasn't reading you to be judging my diet or anyone else's. I just think the broad topic is kind of interesting.Either you or Sabine eats some kind of bread that I keep meaning to try and keep forgetting what it was.
Ezekiel. She eats it and recommends it, and I like it too and would probably buy it if I bought bread, but I generally don't. (I don't think bread is unhealthy, I just don't think it's worth the calories for me that often and yet sandwiches are so omnipresent if you buy lunch at all (I mean, I buy salads too, but there are a couple of good sandwich places I go to, with whole grain bread and all, so I almost never use it at home.)0 -
Agree that it's not a big enough whup to give a chittlin about.lemurcat12 wrote: »If the definition of healthy is "whatever you want it to be", then those who say no food is healthy are right.
I think the definition of "healthy" is "has an overall positive effect on one's health." I think that of "unhealthy" is "has an overall negative effect on one's health." So that's why I have no problem calling a diet overall healthy or not, but am more skeptical of saying that about a food in a vacuum. Like I said, for most people broccoli is healthy, though. It's just not an objective quality, as I'm defining it. An objective statement that you could make about broccoli is that it is nutrient dense.If "health" and "healthy" are defined, then some foods will fit the definition and some won't.
If healthy means "nutrient dense" then sure, but I don't see why that's a better way to define healthy than what I said above. (But I am not bothered if you do--like you said before, I'm just discussing this, not arguing.)
I'd say healthy for a diet means that it promotes health and meets the person's needs and goals (including not causing inappropriate weight gain or loss). That's easier to look at rather than whether a specific food does, because of course no specific food can meet a person's needs on its own or necessarily detract from them either.Insisting that "healthy" cannot be defined will not stop others from defining words and using them according to the definitions. I'm not saying you, personally, insist that the word cannot be defined. I do routinely dismiss the idea that the word cannot be defined or applied to diets (and, by extension, individual foods, as individual foods comprise diets.)
Okay. We disagree as set forth above, but I don't see it as an especially important disagreement in reality.What I eat has nothing to do with what I think you should eat. We don't disagree about your diet. If you say it's healthy, I believe you. I'm not on a mission to make everyone eat what I eat. I don't even enjoy some of what I eat. For a long time, i didn't enjoy any of what I ate except fruit and granola, lol. I eat it because that's what I need to do. Me. Not you.
That's cool and I wasn't reading you to be judging my diet or anyone else's. I just think the broad topic is kind of interesting.Either you or Sabine eats some kind of bread that I keep meaning to try and keep forgetting what it was.
Ezekiel. She eats it and recommends it, and I like it too and would probably buy it if I bought bread, but I generally don't. (I don't think bread is unhealthy, I just don't think it's worth the calories for me that often and yet sandwiches are so omnipresent if you buy lunch at all (I mean, I buy salads too, but there are a couple of good sandwich places I go to, with whole grain bread and all, so I almost never use it at home.)
It's not Ezekiel. That I wouldn't forget, lol!
No. It might not even be bread. I think it's more of a bready-carby-fest. I'm not sure. All I can ever remember is "flan," which is obviously not bread. I even went through the bakery section, the multiple foreign sections (which are big) at Publix and Winn Dixie AND Wal-Mart (which I loathe) to see if I'd see it and it would spark a remembrance. Gone! I could swear it was monosyllabic, but might be wrong. Every time I try to remember, "flan" pops back in my head....and "moth", one time, lol.
So, I'll just wait until someone says it again.
Maybe it's a recipe. I dunno.
But whoever mentioned it seemed to really love the moth flan or whatever it is. 0 -
Went to lunch... dead-lifted... took my dogs to get groomed and cut, shoveled driveway, made dinner, played some PS4... and this *kitten* is still going strong at 33 pages? WTF.....0
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martyqueen52 wrote: »Went to lunch... dead-lifted... took my dogs to get groomed and cut, shoveled driveway, made dinner, played some PS4... and this *kitten* is still going strong at 33 pages? WTF.....
it got heated around lunch time ..
what were you playing on PS4?
I have destiny and dragon age right now….F'ing addictive0 -
martyqueen52 wrote: »Went to lunch... dead-lifted... took my dogs to get groomed and cut, shoveled driveway, made dinner, played some PS4... and this *kitten* is still going strong at 33 pages? WTF.....
It's a brave new MFP.0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »Went to lunch... dead-lifted... took my dogs to get groomed and cut, shoveled driveway, made dinner, played some PS4... and this *kitten* is still going strong at 33 pages? WTF.....
It's a brave new MFP.
since threads don't roll anymore…they can kinda just keep going and going and going..
I am surprised the mods did not shut this down on about page 20 ...0 -
I'm playing Dragon Age, lol.
Sold Destiny on Ebay, game was a redundant pile of *kitten*. My wife got me Farcry 4 for X-mas... so as soon as DA is finished I'm moving onto it.
0 -
martyqueen52 wrote: »I'm playing Dragon Age, lol.
Sold Destiny on Ebay, game was a redundant pile of *kitten*. My wife got me Farcry 4 for X-mas... so as soon as DA is finished I'm moving onto it.
DA is freaking insane..I am like 20+ hours into it ..the only thing I don't like about it is that you can't freaking toggle the weapons when you are fighting…freaking lame...
They put some serious side quest and *kitten* in there …
I just like Destiny when I feel like shooting stuff ….LOL …0 -
DIE THREAD DIE!!!
0 -
Lasmartchika wrote: »
DIE THREAD DIE!!!
we have moved on to PS4 now ….0 -
martyqueen52 wrote: »I'm playing Dragon Age, lol.
Sold Destiny on Ebay, game was a redundant pile of *kitten*. My wife got me Farcry 4 for X-mas... so as soon as DA is finished I'm moving onto it.
DA is freaking insane..I am like 20+ hours into it ..the only thing I don't like about it is that you can't freaking toggle the weapons when you are fighting…freaking lame...
They put some serious side quest and *kitten* in there …
I just like Destiny when I feel like shooting stuff ….LOL …
Oh yea, I love DA. Just hit level 10 but I'm running around closing rifts and side crap, I think I've done like 5 main story missions so far.
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0
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »Went to lunch... dead-lifted... took my dogs to get groomed and cut, shoveled driveway, made dinner, played some PS4... and this *kitten* is still going strong at 33 pages? WTF.....
It's a brave new MFP.
since threads don't roll anymore…they can kinda just keep going and going and going..
I am surprised the mods did not shut this down on about page 20 ...
We're trying to get bingo.0 -
Lasmartchika wrote: »
DIE THREAD DIE!!!
we have moved on to PS4 now ….
Yeah I was not gonna read everything I missed... I think the last time I saw this thread it was on page 19? Stupid notifications.... LOL!!0 -
martyqueen52 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »I'm playing Dragon Age, lol.
Sold Destiny on Ebay, game was a redundant pile of *kitten*. My wife got me Farcry 4 for X-mas... so as soon as DA is finished I'm moving onto it.
DA is freaking insane..I am like 20+ hours into it ..the only thing I don't like about it is that you can't freaking toggle the weapons when you are fighting…freaking lame...
They put some serious side quest and *kitten* in there …
I just like Destiny when I feel like shooting stuff ….LOL …
Oh yea, I love DA. Just hit level 10 but I'm running around closing rifts and side crap, I think I've done like 5 main story missions so far.
I have done some main story stuff ..but once I get back to it it is going to be a solid four hours of side quest and killing *kitten*0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »Went to lunch... dead-lifted... took my dogs to get groomed and cut, shoveled driveway, made dinner, played some PS4... and this *kitten* is still going strong at 33 pages? WTF.....
It's a brave new MFP.
since threads don't roll anymore…they can kinda just keep going and going and going..
I am surprised the mods did not shut this down on about page 20 ...
We're trying to get bingo.
hell, we did not get it yet????0 -
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emily_stew wrote: »
Has the word "bully" been mentioned yet?jofjltncb6 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »Went to lunch... dead-lifted... took my dogs to get groomed and cut, shoveled driveway, made dinner, played some PS4... and this *kitten* is still going strong at 33 pages? WTF.....
It's a brave new MFP.
since threads don't roll anymore…they can kinda just keep going and going and going..
I am surprised the mods did not shut this down on about page 20 ...
We're trying to get bingo.
hell, we did not get it yet????
not sure ..I missed a few pages…
feel free to browse all 33 and let me know..
I am surprised Kalik did not mention it…
I know we had a clean eater, processed food is bad, and some other rubbish about the ingredients in pizza crust, and full fat mozzarella not being good..oh and there was the ice cream is not healthy girl..but I am going off memory now...0 -
I haven't gotten DA yet, but I've been bullying ( @emily_stew ) orcs all across Nurn in Shadow of Mordor.0
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This content has been removed.
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I haven't gotten DA yet, but I've been bullying ( @emily_stew ) orcs all across Nurn in Shadow of Mordor.
DA is freaking intense…
how is that shadow of mordor game..????0 -
emily_stew wrote: »emily_stew wrote: »
Has the word "bully" been mentioned yet?jofjltncb6 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »Went to lunch... dead-lifted... took my dogs to get groomed and cut, shoveled driveway, made dinner, played some PS4... and this *kitten* is still going strong at 33 pages? WTF.....
It's a brave new MFP.
since threads don't roll anymore…they can kinda just keep going and going and going..
I am surprised the mods did not shut this down on about page 20 ...
We're trying to get bingo.
hell, we did not get it yet????
not sure ..I missed a few pages…
feel free to browse all 33 and let me know..
I am surprised Kalik did not mention it…
I know we had a clean eater, processed food is bad, and some other rubbish about the ingredients in pizza crust, and full fat mozzarella not being good..oh and there was the ice cream is not healthy girl..but I am going off memory now...
Bully.
BINGO!
LOL
done...0 -
It's good, it's just raising pure chaos in orc lands. There's no rules, you just jack them up.
You can even hunt them down from on top of a rancor.0
This discussion has been closed.
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