Lifting Weights while in a calorie deficit
jesswhiting1031
Posts: 3 Member
Hi All! I just have quick question, I'm aware that you cannot gain muscle while eating at a calorie deficit...which I am. I'm having no problem losing weight, my question is about increasing my weights with lifting. I've been increasing what I lift and I feel that I am getting stronger (being able to do more reps, adding more weight the last set, ect). Is that different than gaining muscle?
Thank you ahead of time and excuse the ignorance!
Thank you ahead of time and excuse the ignorance!
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Replies
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jesswhiting1031 wrote: »Hi All! I just have quick question, I'm aware that you cannot gain muscle while eating at a calorie deficit...which I am. I'm having no problem losing weight, my question is about increasing my weights with lifting. I've been increasing what I lift and I feel that I am getting stronger (being able to do more reps, adding more weight the last set, ect). Is that different than gaining muscle?
Thank you ahead of time and excuse the ignorance!
Yes, it's neuro adaptation.
Basically your increase in strength is your body becoming more efficient at lifting, and thus can continue to lift more and more. These gains are capped at a point though.
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That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.-1
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Everything I've read suggests you can actually increase muscle mass while eating at a calorie deficit, at least at first. It's not much and not for long, but it can happen.
As far as getting stronger without building muscle goes, when you start lifting, your central nervous system becomes more efficient, enabling you to recruit more muscle for your movements. This enables you to move more weight. When most people first start strength training they'll get stronger for the first 4-6 weeks before they start to gain any muscle mass.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Wtf lol? Oh ya...Damnit, I could've been Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of my weight loss then if I had eaten right while I lifted?
There's a window of CNS adaptation where one can gain a miniscule amount of muscle, even in a deficit if one is getting proper protein and performing a good structured lifting routine but it is short lived. I won't dismiss the idea that there is zero gain but not a significant amount. If it were just down to a certain eating method for muscle gain and being in a deficit, why would bodybuilders do bulk and cut cycles to build muscle?0 -
If you have never lifted before, or have been out of shape for a long time, it's possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time with weight training and proper nutrition, even with a calorie deficit, at least for the first few month. It's called newbie gain.
You need to make sure you eat enough protein everyday to minimize muscle catabolism, and maximize muscle anabolism with proper carb, fat and protein balance.
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getting stronger and building muscle aren't exactly synonymous. you can build strength and drop some body fat (making it look like you're building muscle) while starting to lift and on a calorie deficit. this is commonly known as "noobie gains" and can go one for up to a year.0
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Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Wtf lol? Oh ya...Damnit, I could've been Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of my weight loss then if I had eaten right while I lifted?
There's a window of CNS adaptation where one can gain a miniscule amount of muscle, even in a deficit if one is getting proper protein and performing a good structured lifting routine but it is short lived. I won't dismiss the idea that there is zero gain but not a significant amount. If it were just down to a certain eating method for muscle gain and being in a deficit, why would bodybuilders do bulk and cut cycles to build muscle?
As is explained in this article (http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you_asked_is_it_possible_to_build_muscle_and_lose_weight_at_the_same_time), because it is easier to focus on one at a time. But there is a big difference between something being difficult and it being impossible.-1 -
TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Wtf lol? Oh ya...Damnit, I could've been Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of my weight loss then if I had eaten right while I lifted?
There's a window of CNS adaptation where one can gain a miniscule amount of muscle, even in a deficit if one is getting proper protein and performing a good structured lifting routine but it is short lived. I won't dismiss the idea that there is zero gain but not a significant amount. If it were just down to a certain eating method for muscle gain and being in a deficit, why would bodybuilders do bulk and cut cycles to build muscle?
As is explained in this article (http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you_asked_is_it_possible_to_build_muscle_and_lose_weight_at_the_same_time), because it is easier to focus on one at a time. But there is a big difference between something being difficult and it being impossible.
Ya, that's not a peer reviewed study or scientific research article. That's a man who had had great success in weight loss and became a PT and decided to start formulating his own opinion.
Opinions are not facts.
I also never said it was impossible but it also isn't something that is significant like you suggest or has longstanding benefits, even under the most ideal circumstances. That is why those who achieve their BF% goal and wish to continue in lifting do bulk/cut cycles.0 -
Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Wtf lol? Oh ya...Damnit, I could've been Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of my weight loss then if I had eaten right while I lifted?
There's a window of CNS adaptation where one can gain a miniscule amount of muscle, even in a deficit if one is getting proper protein and performing a good structured lifting routine but it is short lived. I won't dismiss the idea that there is zero gain but not a significant amount. If it were just down to a certain eating method for muscle gain and being in a deficit, why would bodybuilders do bulk and cut cycles to build muscle?
As is explained in this article (http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you_asked_is_it_possible_to_build_muscle_and_lose_weight_at_the_same_time), because it is easier to focus on one at a time. But there is a big difference between something being difficult and it being impossible.
Ya, that's not a peer reviewed study or scientific research article. That's a man who had had great success in weight loss and became a PT and decided to start formulating his own opinion.
Opinions are not facts.
I also never said it was impossible but it also isn't something that is significant like you suggest or has longstanding benefits, even under the most ideal circumstances. That is why those who achieve their BF% goal and wish to continue in lifting do bulk/cut cycles.
The people who keep saying, "you can't gain muscle mass on a deficit" aren't quoting from a scientific paper either, but that doesn't keep them doing it. All I said is that they are wrong, and that's a fact.-1 -
TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Wtf lol? Oh ya...Damnit, I could've been Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of my weight loss then if I had eaten right while I lifted?
There's a window of CNS adaptation where one can gain a miniscule amount of muscle, even in a deficit if one is getting proper protein and performing a good structured lifting routine but it is short lived. I won't dismiss the idea that there is zero gain but not a significant amount. If it were just down to a certain eating method for muscle gain and being in a deficit, why would bodybuilders do bulk and cut cycles to build muscle?
As is explained in this article (http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you_asked_is_it_possible_to_build_muscle_and_lose_weight_at_the_same_time), because it is easier to focus on one at a time. But there is a big difference between something being difficult and it being impossible.
Ya, that's not a peer reviewed study or scientific research article. That's a man who had had great success in weight loss and became a PT and decided to start formulating his own opinion.
Opinions are not facts.
I also never said it was impossible but it also isn't something that is significant like you suggest or has longstanding benefits, even under the most ideal circumstances. That is why those who achieve their BF% goal and wish to continue in lifting do bulk/cut cycles.
The people who keep saying, "you can't gain muscle mass on a deficit" aren't quoting from a scientific paper either, but that doesn't keep them doing it. All I said is that they are wrong, and that's a fact.
I don't think it's as black and white as people generally state but most people asking about building muscle think that because they're stalled out in weight loss they've magically gained muscle to make up for whatever weight they were supposed to lose and ya...
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/
"In fact, I’d tend to argue that most people’s attempts to achieve the above results in them simply spinning their wheels, making no progress towards either goal. Because invariably they set up a situation where neither training nor diet is optimized for either fat loss or muscle gain. Calories are too high for fat loss and too low to support muscle gains and outside of that one overfat beginner situation, the physiology simply isn’t going to readily allow what they want to happen to happen."
"Lyle McDonald is a physiologist and author who has spent over a decade obsessively finding ways to apply cutting-edge scientific research to sports nutrition, fat loss and muscle growth."
http://evidencemag.com/the-10-most-credible-health-and-fitness-bloggers-you-can-trust/
I trust someone who actually studies in the field of science over someone who has worked in other things and decided to slap PT on their name for credibility, myself.0 -
The problem with the (incorrect) claim of being unable to build muscle while in a caloric deficit is that nobody ever attributes the result to a time frame.
Imagine a hypothetical person who over a period of 12 months transitions from 200 lbs, 35% body fat (130 lbs lean mass) to 180 lbs, 22.2% body fat (140 lbs lean mass). Those numbers aren't that crazy in a 1 year span are they? But this person has proven that they've been at a net caloric deficit (they've lost total weight) and still gained muscle mass (lean body mass increased).
So if it's possible to do over a year, why not over a month? Over a week? A day?
Nobody staking any claims here ever bothers to define what time frame of deficit they are talking about; obviously it is possible to build mass while on a net caloric deficit, but the main question is: what is the shortest duration of time for which that is true?0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Physics says you're wrong.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Wtf lol? Oh ya...Damnit, I could've been Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of my weight loss then if I had eaten right while I lifted?
There's a window of CNS adaptation where one can gain a miniscule amount of muscle, even in a deficit if one is getting proper protein and performing a good structured lifting routine but it is short lived. I won't dismiss the idea that there is zero gain but not a significant amount. If it were just down to a certain eating method for muscle gain and being in a deficit, why would bodybuilders do bulk and cut cycles to build muscle?
As is explained in this article (http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you_asked_is_it_possible_to_build_muscle_and_lose_weight_at_the_same_time), because it is easier to focus on one at a time. But there is a big difference between something being difficult and it being impossible.
Ya, that's not a peer reviewed study or scientific research article. That's a man who had had great success in weight loss and became a PT and decided to start formulating his own opinion.
Opinions are not facts.
I also never said it was impossible but it also isn't something that is significant like you suggest or has longstanding benefits, even under the most ideal circumstances. That is why those who achieve their BF% goal and wish to continue in lifting do bulk/cut cycles.
The people who keep saying, "you can't gain muscle mass on a deficit" aren't quoting from a scientific paper either, but that doesn't keep them doing it. All I said is that they are wrong, and that's a fact.
They don't need to cute scientific papers. It is easily proven by the law of thermodynamics.0 -
noob gains tho0
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The problem with the (incorrect) claim of being unable to build muscle while in a caloric deficit is that nobody ever attributes the result to a time frame.
Imagine a hypothetical person who over a period of 12 months transitions from 200 lbs, 35% body fat (130 lbs lean mass) to 180 lbs, 22.2% body fat (140 lbs lean mass). Those numbers aren't that crazy in a 1 year span are they? But this person has proven that they've been at a net caloric deficit (they've lost total weight) and still gained muscle mass (lean body mass increased).
So if it's possible to do over a year, why not over a month? Over a week? A day?
Nobody staking any claims here ever bothers to define what time frame of deficit they are talking about; obviously it is possible to build mass while on a net caloric deficit, but the main question is: what is the shortest duration of time for which that is true?
I think this is a great point.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Its not a myth. Newbie gains are common but building muscle is intentional and not easy.0 -
I'm happy my body doesn't read.....I would be pretty upset not to have gained all this muscle at a calorie deficit! I was already happy it couldn't hear that I couldn't gain doing the amount of cardio I do. I guess you all must be talking about gaining 100 lbs. of muscle or something?0
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TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Wtf lol? Oh ya...Damnit, I could've been Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of my weight loss then if I had eaten right while I lifted?
There's a window of CNS adaptation where one can gain a miniscule amount of muscle, even in a deficit if one is getting proper protein and performing a good structured lifting routine but it is short lived. I won't dismiss the idea that there is zero gain but not a significant amount. If it were just down to a certain eating method for muscle gain and being in a deficit, why would bodybuilders do bulk and cut cycles to build muscle?
As is explained in this article (http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you_asked_is_it_possible_to_build_muscle_and_lose_weight_at_the_same_time), because it is easier to focus on one at a time. But there is a big difference between something being difficult and it being impossible.
Ya, that's not a peer reviewed study or scientific research article. That's a man who had had great success in weight loss and became a PT and decided to start formulating his own opinion.
Opinions are not facts.
I also never said it was impossible but it also isn't something that is significant like you suggest or has longstanding benefits, even under the most ideal circumstances. That is why those who achieve their BF% goal and wish to continue in lifting do bulk/cut cycles.
The people who keep saying, "you can't gain muscle mass on a deficit" aren't quoting from a scientific paper either, but that doesn't keep them doing it. All I said is that they are wrong, and that's a fact.
They don't need to cute scientific papers. It is easily proven by the law of thermodynamics.
Untrue, because we aren't talking about gaining weight but about gaining muscle. It requires a food source to gain muscle. Stored fat works like a second food source.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Wtf lol? Oh ya...Damnit, I could've been Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of my weight loss then if I had eaten right while I lifted?
There's a window of CNS adaptation where one can gain a miniscule amount of muscle, even in a deficit if one is getting proper protein and performing a good structured lifting routine but it is short lived. I won't dismiss the idea that there is zero gain but not a significant amount. If it were just down to a certain eating method for muscle gain and being in a deficit, why would bodybuilders do bulk and cut cycles to build muscle?
As is explained in this article (http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you_asked_is_it_possible_to_build_muscle_and_lose_weight_at_the_same_time), because it is easier to focus on one at a time. But there is a big difference between something being difficult and it being impossible.
Ya, that's not a peer reviewed study or scientific research article. That's a man who had had great success in weight loss and became a PT and decided to start formulating his own opinion.
Opinions are not facts.
I also never said it was impossible but it also isn't something that is significant like you suggest or has longstanding benefits, even under the most ideal circumstances. That is why those who achieve their BF% goal and wish to continue in lifting do bulk/cut cycles.
The people who keep saying, "you can't gain muscle mass on a deficit" aren't quoting from a scientific paper either, but that doesn't keep them doing it. All I said is that they are wrong, and that's a fact.
They don't need to cute scientific papers. It is easily proven by the law of thermodynamics.
Untrue, because we aren't talking about gaining weight but about gaining muscle. It requires a food source to gain muscle. Stored fat works like a second food source.
Physics: you're doing it wrong.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Wtf lol? Oh ya...Damnit, I could've been Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of my weight loss then if I had eaten right while I lifted?
There's a window of CNS adaptation where one can gain a miniscule amount of muscle, even in a deficit if one is getting proper protein and performing a good structured lifting routine but it is short lived. I won't dismiss the idea that there is zero gain but not a significant amount. If it were just down to a certain eating method for muscle gain and being in a deficit, why would bodybuilders do bulk and cut cycles to build muscle?
As is explained in this article (http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you_asked_is_it_possible_to_build_muscle_and_lose_weight_at_the_same_time), because it is easier to focus on one at a time. But there is a big difference between something being difficult and it being impossible.
Ya, that's not a peer reviewed study or scientific research article. That's a man who had had great success in weight loss and became a PT and decided to start formulating his own opinion.
Opinions are not facts.
I also never said it was impossible but it also isn't something that is significant like you suggest or has longstanding benefits, even under the most ideal circumstances. That is why those who achieve their BF% goal and wish to continue in lifting do bulk/cut cycles.
The people who keep saying, "you can't gain muscle mass on a deficit" aren't quoting from a scientific paper either, but that doesn't keep them doing it. All I said is that they are wrong, and that's a fact.
They don't need to cute scientific papers. It is easily proven by the law of thermodynamics.
Untrue, because we aren't talking about gaining weight but about gaining muscle. It requires a food source to gain muscle. Stored fat works like a second food source.
Physics: you're doing it wrong.
Why do you say that? To build muscle, you break down the muscle through exercise and then the body rebuilds it from the nutrients that it has available to it (mostly from protein). In doing this, the body uses energy to exercise and also to move the nutrients to the proper places for the muscle to rebuild. That energy can be specified in terms of calories. If the body uses more energy while doing this than what a person consumes, it will draw energy from stored fat. The nutrients for rebuilding muscle, however, will come from the gut. The body can simultaneously use energy from fat while moving nutrients from the gut to the muscles.0 -
Of course it's not impossible to gain muscle in a calorie deficit. That would mean not one single person could!
It's clearly not optimal but that's a million miles away from impossible.
It's well known that muscle can be added by:
Newbies.
Those returning to training after a break.
Genetically gifted (like almost all teenage males!)
Novel training stimulus.
Drug abusers.
So take an "over fat" newby, young male and they have every chance of adding muscle as long as their training, diet and calorie deficit are reasonable.
Take a lean, fully trained, experienced female lifter and you have little chance.0 -
What sijomail said. It depends and seems to be limited to particular circumstances. Beyond those its extremely unlikely.0
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You can certainly get stronger! You probably won't get bulkier, but you can get definition for sure. It has worked well for me. The real benefit is that you won't *lose* muscle tissue, whereas if you did not lift, you probably would. I had my body composition checked monthly throughout my period of fat loss and I lost no muscle tissue because I was lifting. So this way your proportion of muscle over fat increases. 0
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The thing about the internet is you can listen to those who say it can't be done or you can keep looking to see if someone says it can be done. Maybe it's just a mental thing that I feel I burn fat on cardio days and gain muscle on lifting days but my mental power has family and friends convinced it's happening too. This program works for me at a calorie deficit and maybe it will work for others who refuse to believe it can't happen.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly3.htm
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Muscle is weight. You gain all weight via caloric surplus. the difference is that gaining muscle and minimal/no fat requires a slight to moderate surplus while lifting properly.TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Phoenix_Down wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
Wtf lol? Oh ya...Damnit, I could've been Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of my weight loss then if I had eaten right while I lifted?
There's a window of CNS adaptation where one can gain a miniscule amount of muscle, even in a deficit if one is getting proper protein and performing a good structured lifting routine but it is short lived. I won't dismiss the idea that there is zero gain but not a significant amount. If it were just down to a certain eating method for muscle gain and being in a deficit, why would bodybuilders do bulk and cut cycles to build muscle?
As is explained in this article (http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you_asked_is_it_possible_to_build_muscle_and_lose_weight_at_the_same_time), because it is easier to focus on one at a time. But there is a big difference between something being difficult and it being impossible.
Ya, that's not a peer reviewed study or scientific research article. That's a man who had had great success in weight loss and became a PT and decided to start formulating his own opinion.
Opinions are not facts.
I also never said it was impossible but it also isn't something that is significant like you suggest or has longstanding benefits, even under the most ideal circumstances. That is why those who achieve their BF% goal and wish to continue in lifting do bulk/cut cycles.
The people who keep saying, "you can't gain muscle mass on a deficit" aren't quoting from a scientific paper either, but that doesn't keep them doing it. All I said is that they are wrong, and that's a fact.
They don't need to cute scientific papers. It is easily proven by the law of thermodynamics.
Untrue, because we aren't talking about gaining weight but about gaining muscle. It requires a food source to gain muscle. Stored fat works like a second food source.
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This article seems to make rational sense, at least within the context of my own goals. Not a fancy peer-reviewed journal, but a fitness site that is often shared and recommended here, so hopefully this is also sound. http://scoobysworkshop.com/bulking-and-cutting/0
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Of course it's not impossible to gain muscle in a calorie deficit. That would mean not one single person could!
It's clearly not optimal but that's a million miles away from impossible.
It's well known that muscle can be added by:
Newbies.
Those returning to training after a break.
Genetically gifted (like almost all teenage males!)
Novel training stimulus.
Drug abusers.
So take an "over fat" newby, young male and they have every chance of adding muscle as long as their training, diet and calorie deficit are reasonable.
Take a lean, fully trained, experienced female lifter and you have little chance.
+10 -
jcmartin217 wrote: »The thing about the internet is you can listen to those who say it can't be done or you can keep looking to see if someone says it can be done. Maybe it's just a mental thing that I feel I burn fat on cardio days and gain muscle on lifting days but my mental power has family and friends convinced it's happening too. This program works for me at a calorie deficit and maybe it will work for others who refuse to believe it can't happen.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly3.htm
What?
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TimothyFish wrote: »That's actually a much repeated myth. You can gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, however, the more you wish to gain, the more strict your diet would need to be to do so.
What planet would this be on??
OP with the exception of newbie gains, one does not usually gain in a deficit. One will become stronger.0 -
God, I wouldn't have expected all this in a thread about strength gains
OP, the first guy answered your question. CNS adaptations - you're gaining strength (possibly a tiny bit of muscle too), have at it while it lasts.0
This discussion has been closed.
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