Disturbing Biggest Loser article
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prattiger65 wrote: »Of course, this is just one hit piece. The truth might be different than this story. I personally think these people are idiots to subject themselves to this. They are adults and the should know what they are getting in to. I have no sympathy at all.
but why not have sympathy for idiots? it's not their fault that they weren't blessed with intelligence.
Not to put too fine a point on it, my IQ is in the 99th percentile. That is NOT a free pass for me to be contemptuous of or cruel to anyone whose IQ is lower than mine.
And to be frank, no matter how damn smart you THINK you are, you're still human and you still have all the human buttons, even if you think you don't. In fact, when it comes to manipulating people, the people who think they're strong-minded and above manipulation are actually some of the easiest to play like a $5 fiddle.
I think a little humility and compassion is a better way to go.
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NoelFigart1 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Of course, this is just one hit piece. The truth might be different than this story. I personally think these people are idiots to subject themselves to this. They are adults and the should know what they are getting in to. I have no sympathy at all.
but why not have sympathy for idiots? it's not their fault that they weren't blessed with intelligence.
Not to put too fine a point on it, my IQ is in the 99th percentile. That is NOT a free pass for me to be contemptuous of or cruel to anyone whose IQ is lower than mine.
And to be frank, no matter how damn smart you THINK you are, you're still human and you still have all the human buttons, even if you think you don't. In fact, when it comes to manipulating people, the people who think they're strong-minded and above manipulation are actually some of the easiest to play like a $5 fiddle.
I think a little humility and compassion is a better way to go.
yep, agree.0 -
prattiger65 wrote: »Has there been proven long term medical damage from this show? I mean real proof?
The contestant pool hasn't been big enough for a double-blind controlled medical study, if that's what you're asking.
But over the years I've certainly seen enough articles and people speaking out with anecdotal evidence to suggest that there has been quite a bit of long-term damage done to the participants.
I mean, I get what you're saying -- they could all be people with an axe to grind, and maybe the show has wonderful medical support and treats everyone well. But, just watch what these people are doing ON camera... I don't think it's a leap to suggest that there's some truth to these allegations.
There have also been plenty of doctors and other people with a medical background criticising the show.0 -
NoelFigart1 wrote: »In fact, when it comes to manipulating people, the people who think they're strong-minded and above manipulation are actually some of the easiest to play like a $5 fiddle.
Wouldn't a $5 fiddle actually be very difficult to play? :-)0 -
NoelFigart1 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »In fact, when it comes to manipulating people, the people who think they're strong-minded and above manipulation are actually some of the easiest to play like a $5 fiddle.
Wouldn't a $5 fiddle actually be very difficult to play? :-)
LOL. The wisdom of my Ancestors is in the expression. My unhallowed hands shall not touch it.0 -
I personally think the show sucks, but I have that same thought about almost all reality TV. I just hate to see knee jerk reaction to one article by two disgruntled contestants. There have literally been thousands do the show, where is the groundswell of outrage by the others? We all know that in the US, a good attorney would blow right through that contract if the contestants were mislead or mistreated, you know that! Where are the lawsuits? ITs reality TV, part of the appeal is how poorly the contestants appear to be treated. I think anyone who takes this at face value is easily deceived.0
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Jimmyftw94 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »I remember some of the coaches from when I was in high school. The girls volleyball coach did the most yelling and he's the one that got them a state championship trophy.
This. Most Americans are brought up by lenient parents. That's why most people cannot handle tough criticism and are generally lazy as opposed to hard working.
That's bull.0 -
prattiger65 wrote: »I personally think the show sucks, but I have that same thought about almost all reality TV. I just hate to see knee jerk reaction to one article by two disgruntled contestants. There have literally been thousands do the show, where is the groundswell of outrage by the others? We all know that in the US, a good attorney would blow right through that contract if the contestants were mislead or mistreated, you know that! Where are the lawsuits? ITs reality TV, part of the appeal is how poorly the contestants appear to be treated. I think anyone who takes this at face value is easily deceived.
^^That's me, easily deceived. I refuse to watch people be humiliated and treated like this. It does not matter if they are agreeable to the treatment or not. This is a sick commentary on what many in the society find to be entertainment.
The number of people that watch proves that people find this entertaining. I do not, and refuse to watch reality tv. It is not amusing in the least. It is cruel and mean spirited treatment. Nothing justifies this in my opinion.
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NoelFigart1 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Of course, this is just one hit piece. The truth might be different than this story. I personally think these people are idiots to subject themselves to this. They are adults and the should know what they are getting in to. I have no sympathy at all.
but why not have sympathy for idiots? it's not their fault that they weren't blessed with intelligence.
Not to put too fine a point on it, my IQ is in the 99th percentile. That is NOT a free pass for me to be contemptuous of or cruel to anyone whose IQ is lower than mine.
And to be frank, no matter how damn smart you THINK you are, you're still human and you still have all the human buttons, even if you think you don't. In fact, when it comes to manipulating people, the people who think they're strong-minded and above manipulation are actually some of the easiest to play like a $5 fiddle.
I think a little humility and compassion is a better way to go.
I can guarantee you that the show would not allow someone with insufficient mental capacity to evaluate the facts and make an informed decision on the show. Doing so would invalidate their contracts. They would exclude people with obvious emotional issues as well - don't want anyone committing suicide or murder or the show, either.
My problem is that these people are not idiots. They have the full mental capacity to make an informed choice for themselves. They made a wrong choice and must live with the consequences, just like every human being on the planet does.
I'm not going to walk around feeling particularly sorry for them putting themselves in a bad situation. Do I understand that it's easy to do? Sure. Have I made not-so-smart decisions, too, and reaped the consequences? Yep. Do I think I'm better than they are? Nope. But I'm going to acknowledge that the blame for their situation lands squarely in their laps - just like it lands in mine when I do something ill-advised.
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I watched and loved the show for several seasons. I might have stopped watching because Jillian michaels left and she was the yelliest of them all. From the initial workouts to their increasing fitness over time, to their team challenges and even the tips the trainers gave before commercial breaks, I really liked it all of it. I would say they actually inspired some of my attitudes to exercise today, because i figured if these people could exercise for eight hours a day, I could do two or three if I wanted to. Like any show though after a while you just stop watching.
After the first damn season you know a good chunk of what goes on in the show. If you're a wimp, stay home. If you can hack it, sign up.
And don't forget that once there, not only can you leave whenever you want, each week you have to actively work hard to prevent being eliminated. At the very least if you want to leave on the sneak sneak all you have to do is not try so hard when it comes time to start sending people off the show...0 -
Hibbard has been bad-mouthing the show for years, and it seems to be getting worse each article. Not that I think the show doesn't deserve a lot of it. But I agree that the "400 calories" and stuff is exaggerated. And they do sideline people with injuries.
And you can't sign away your legal rights. If there was actual and widespread physical abuse going on, there would be lawsuits, I think.
The ABC one in summer has a bitter past contestant-- Extreme Weight Loss. He keeps asking the show to cover medical things in his present claiming they're consequences of his loss, and when they don't, he cries to the internet about all the abuses they dished out. There is a girl who was bitter, too. She was the one who got a swimming pool built at her house. It's like the networks adopt these people for the year and some of them don't want it to end.0 -
NoelFigart1 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Of course, this is just one hit piece. The truth might be different than this story. I personally think these people are idiots to subject themselves to this. They are adults and the should know what they are getting in to. I have no sympathy at all.
but why not have sympathy for idiots? it's not their fault that they weren't blessed with intelligence.
Not to put too fine a point on it, my IQ is in the 99th percentile. That is NOT a free pass for me to be contemptuous of or cruel to anyone whose IQ is lower than mine.
And to be frank, no matter how damn smart you THINK you are, you're still human and you still have all the human buttons, even if you think you don't. In fact, when it comes to manipulating people, the people who think they're strong-minded and above manipulation are actually some of the easiest to play like a $5 fiddle.
I think a little humility and compassion is a better way to go.
THANK YOU.0 -
Jimmyftw94 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »I remember some of the coaches from when I was in high school. The girls volleyball coach did the most yelling and he's the one that got them a state championship trophy.
And was it worth all that yelling?
One trophy?
It's not about the trophy.. It's the idea that hard work pays off. They're never going to learn this from having a lenient couch.
No, nor are they going to learn it from being yelled at.
What they're going to learn from that isn't that hard work pays off; it's that if they don't do very well, they'll get yelled at.
Ergo, take away the yelling = no more motivation to work hard.
So, not sure they learned much of a hard work ethic here, except that when you're not yelled at, you can slack off, but if, say, your boss screams at you, that's when to get to work.
Hopefully they all grew up to have screamer bosses so that they were able to excel in the workforce, and screaming spouses so that they were motivated to keep the house clean and so on.
Some people respond better to yelling, some people respond better to hand holding. Each of us are different and respond to different things. There are plenty of people who hire a PT to yell at them, so yes, some people actually want to be yelled at.
It's just like here on MFP. Some people respond well to hand holding, coddling posts. Some people respond better to the so called "mean people" type posts. Some people just need and want to be slapped with the hard cold reality and that's what will reach them. People are different, so a good trainer (and forum posters) will try to reach them with different methods until something clicks.0 -
NoelFigart1 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Of course, this is just one hit piece. The truth might be different than this story. I personally think these people are idiots to subject themselves to this. They are adults and the should know what they are getting in to. I have no sympathy at all.
but why not have sympathy for idiots? it's not their fault that they weren't blessed with intelligence.
Not to put too fine a point on it, my IQ is in the 99th percentile. That is NOT a free pass for me to be contemptuous of or cruel to anyone whose IQ is lower than mine.
And to be frank, no matter how damn smart you THINK you are, you're still human and you still have all the human buttons, even if you think you don't. In fact, when it comes to manipulating people, the people who think they're strong-minded and above manipulation are actually some of the easiest to play like a $5 fiddle.
I think a little humility and compassion is a better way to go.
I can guarantee you that the show would not allow someone with insufficient mental capacity to evaluate the facts and make an informed decision on the show. Doing so would invalidate their contracts. They would exclude people with obvious emotional issues as well - don't want anyone committing suicide or murder or the show, either.
I think you're missing my point. Did they make a bad decision to be on that show? Hell YEAH.
I'm a Heinleiner, so I'm about as Thou Art God, self-responsibility and all that jazz as you can get.
Doesn't mean I don't have compassion for someone who fell to an a manipulator with a level of skill you have to be on the wrong end of to believe, and I promise you the people who work in so-called reality TV are among the most skilled you'd ever have the misfortune to meet.
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Yeah, I vote we ban all hobbies and activities we don't agree with.0
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NoelFigart1 wrote: »NoelFigart1 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Of course, this is just one hit piece. The truth might be different than this story. I personally think these people are idiots to subject themselves to this. They are adults and the should know what they are getting in to. I have no sympathy at all.
but why not have sympathy for idiots? it's not their fault that they weren't blessed with intelligence.
Not to put too fine a point on it, my IQ is in the 99th percentile. That is NOT a free pass for me to be contemptuous of or cruel to anyone whose IQ is lower than mine.
And to be frank, no matter how damn smart you THINK you are, you're still human and you still have all the human buttons, even if you think you don't. In fact, when it comes to manipulating people, the people who think they're strong-minded and above manipulation are actually some of the easiest to play like a $5 fiddle.
I think a little humility and compassion is a better way to go.
I can guarantee you that the show would not allow someone with insufficient mental capacity to evaluate the facts and make an informed decision on the show. Doing so would invalidate their contracts. They would exclude people with obvious emotional issues as well - don't want anyone committing suicide or murder or the show, either.
I think you're missing my point. Did they make a bad decision to be on that show? Hell YEAH.
I'm a Heinleiner, so I'm about as Thou Art God, self-responsibility and all that jazz as you can get.
Doesn't mean I don't have compassion for someone who fell to an a manipulator with a level of skill you have to be on the wrong end of to believe, and I promise you the people who work in so-called reality TV are among the most skilled you'd ever have the misfortune to meet.
Seriously, a lot of the contestants believe that if they don't lose the weight, they are going to die. And they feel like they can't do it on their own. The show is like a white knight charging in to save them. It would be hard to resist if you are in that mentality of I need to do this or die.
I do hold the opinion that they know what they're getting into just from watching the show. If they don't watch the show before they sign up, then they are dumb. They also can leave at any time, several contestants have willingly dropped out or have "faked" a gain on the scale to get voted off.
Basically, I understand why people sign up for the show, but don't believe that they are trapped there being tortured against their will.
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Comparing this show to abusive relationships and cults is a bit ridiculous.
I don't really think so. People ask the same questions of people involved in cults or abusive relationships - Why did you stay so long? You could leave whenever you wanted... It's been proven that you can keep control over someone without physically restraining them. The contestants should be grateful, this is the best chance that they have to save thier lives, nobody else would ever want to help them, not only do they get to lose a bunch of weight and get attention, they also get a chance at money! They have no reason to complain besides being lazy... in fact, that's what people are saying in this very thread. That's how you end up with "Stockholm Syndrome-like Tendancies," and it's why people don't leave when everything about the situation says that they should.
Now obviously cults and abusive relationships are more extreme and long term than reality TV, but the idea is the same. Take a bunch of vulnerable people (mentally ill, social disorders, low self esteem, depression, personality disorders, etc. - you know, the kind of people that are "fun" to watch), isolate them from friends and family in a very intense situation (on other shows there's usually a lot of free alcohol involved), restrict entertainment and contact with the "normal" world, and put them through physical challenges beyond what is normal for that person. Add in personal drama (on this show, constant belittling and screaming which is PROVEN to be less effective in the long run for weight loss than positive affirmation), and you have absolutely got a recipe for disaster.
We're watching people self destruct for fun. It's not inspirational, it's not educational - in fact, it quite often spreads misinformation and unrealistic goals more than anything. When someone is scammed why don't we put the blame on the scammer? You know, on the person who's actively hurting people to make a buck? Why is it that the victims become somehow to blame for being taken in? If you're the kind of person that needs to be reassured that "this couldn't possibly happen to me" by assuming that everyone who falls for things like this must be stupid or weak, then I sincerely hope that you never end up in a situation where someone is taking advantage of you. Or if you do, I hope you find someone with a bit more compassion to listen to your story.
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