Ashley Graham's plus sized Sports Illustrated Cover
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Ooh, applause. *Bows graciously*0
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She looks like she would be about 28% body fat, which is within healthy range.0
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she's definitely beautiful, no question. i think she's over weight, and do not personally like her body nor would i ever make that my goal. but, on the flip side, there are some anorexic models who i may think are beautiful, but i don't like their bodies because they are too under weight.
I think just because she's overweight doesn't mean she's unhealthy.0 -
discussing the merits of a woman's image is so subjective that it's pointless WHAT if... the pictures were of an "average" woman who decided to allow all her body hair to grow, pits, arms, legs, and *ahem*... HOW many guys and women would look at that and say... "Oh ya gotta have me some of that..." ? outer beauty, inner beauty, healthy, unhealthy... all totally subjective... there was a time when I went to my doctor and sat in his office while he puffed on a cigar and swilled a glass of Scotch... it may not have been considered healthy... but it was not considered unhealthy... it was considered NORMAL... Looking for a role model? that's between y'all and your delicate emotional dispositions... in the scheme of things... we are brought into this world to make a difference or not... lets celebrate that this woman and those folks that decided to take her picture and pay to place it in a magazine chose to say to the world there are alternatives to Normal... alternatives to "average" regardless of how you chose to label it.0
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I think she is a beautiful young woman. Considering that her height is listed at 5'9" or 5'10" and her weight is 165-170, she is either at the top of the healthy BMI range or within a decimal point of being over that. I imagine if you saw her by the pool or on the beach, you would think she looked fabulous...unless she was standing next to Victoria's Secret Angels, who would make anyone look huge.
But I don't get all the hoopla surrounding her appearance in SI's swimsuit issue. It's an advertisement, not part of the editorial. Someone has paid for her image to be there. If I had the budget to by space in the magazine, I could place an ad, and I guess everyone would be talking about the short, middle-aged woman posing in a bikini.0 -
She is plus-sized as far as apparel sizing goes, but she is also "average" as you mentioned some women had commented. The current CDC average height and weight for an American woman is 5 feet 3.8" and 166.2 lbs, which based on a BMI index is considered overweight; 28.7 on a scale of 25 to 29.9 being overweight. I do have a problem with women who say that women of a certain size are "real" while others of another size (usually indicative of smaller framed or skinny women) are not "real." All women in all sizes are real, and shaming behaviour geared towards either direction of weight does not promote a healthy body image and in my opinion is anti-feminist. I have no idea whether or not this woman is healthy, and I think whether or not I or someone else finds her attractive is subjective. Whether or not she is considered plus-sized is a matter of fact based on current apparel industry standards, and is not a subjective opinion to be held.
Very well said.
I have seen a lot of comments on Facebook about this geared towards the "finally, a REAL woman" rhetoric and it's driving me batty.0 -
There is a difference between fat acceptance and fat shaming. Nobody...even if they are 500 pounds...should be ridiculed or discriminated against or told they can't wear whatever they want. However, obesity is not healthy, and people who are SERIOUSLY overweight/obese (and that is for a doctor to judge, not people on a message board) should be counseled and encouraged to lose weight for health reasons.I WAS overweight, no question about it. I loved my boobs and bum and didn't hate myself, but because I am apple shaped and things like the pill aren't as effective when you are overweight, it is unhealthy. I am not trying to pick on Ashley, I am just trying to discuss whether people think fat acceptance is okay and because, as she is an average sized compared to the average person whether or not she should be referred to as a plus sized model or not.
I am not in favor of "fat acceptance" if that means pretending there aren't health consequences. However, if it means acknowledging the health issues but also acknowledging that they are human beings who deserve to be treated with dignity and respect like any other, then that I support.
This woman has a BMI of just over 25...that means she is decimal places away from a "healthy" weight based on BMI. Do you also have a problem with the MANY models below an 18.5 BMI who are UNDERWEIGHT? There is a range of what is considered healthy. And even if something isn't healthy...because of weighing too much or too little...if people think these women will help sell their products they should be hired.
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I think the "Is fat acceptance okay" question really is about "Is it okay for women her size to be confident and claim a sexuality that most of the media tells us everyday is only for 1% of women?"
I agree. Here is a woman who wears a bikini, who embraces her sex appeal, who is highly successful, and who is not apologizing for her curves. Good for her. She looks fantastic.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »
There is a difference between fat acceptance and fat shaming. Nobody...even if they are 500 pounds...should be ridiculed or discriminated against or told they can't wear whatever they want. However, obesity is not healthy, and people who are SERIOUSLY overweight/obese (and that is for a doctor to judge, not people on a message board) should be counseled and encouraged to lose weight for health reasons.I WAS overweight, no question about it. I loved my boobs and bum and didn't hate myself, but because I am apple shaped and things like the pill aren't as effective when you are overweight, it is unhealthy. I am not trying to pick on Ashley, I am just trying to discuss whether people think fat acceptance is okay and because, as she is an average sized compared to the average person whether or not she should be referred to as a plus sized model or not.
I am not in favor of "fat acceptance" if that means pretending there aren't health consequences. However, if it means acknowledging the health issues but also acknowledging that they are human beings who deserve to be treated with dignity and respect like any other, then that I support.
This woman has a BMI of just over 25...that means she is decimal places away from a "healthy" weight based on BMI. Do you also have a problem with the MANY models below an 18.5 BMI who are UNDERWEIGHT? There is a range of what is considered healthy. And even if something isn't healthy...because of weighing too much or too little...if people think these women will help sell their products they should be hired.
No, nowhere did I say I think anorexic models are ok (or ideal) and that plus sized models are not ok. I was discussing whether she should be classified as a plus sized model and whether fat acceptance is ok.0 -
I WAS overweight, no question about it. I loved my boobs and bum and didn't hate myself, but because I am apple shaped and things like the pill aren't as effective when you are overweight, it is unhealthy. I am not trying to pick on Ashley, I am just trying to discuss whether people think fat acceptance is okay and because, as she is an average sized compared to the average person whether or not she should be referred to as a plus sized model or not.
Why the eff wouldn't 'fat acceptance' be ok? Or short acceptance? Or thin acceptance? Or tall acceptance? Or any other kind of acceptance you can think of?
Life is entirely too damn short to have your panties in a bunch because someone who happens to wear a size in the double-digits chooses to wear a bikini. Or gets a spread in a magazine for it.
Who cares? If seeing someone termed by the superficial fashion industry as "plus sized" in a bathing suit is the worst thing that happens to me today, I'm having a damn good day. There are a lot worse things in the world than a woman with a nice *kitten* and the self-confidence to go along with it in a bathing suit.
Just my lil' ole' opinion.
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Not every woman who is underweight is anorexic, but that's a topic for another thread. You keep asking if this model...who is either at the high end of normal or the VERY low end of overweight...is encouraging obesity. Which I just can't take seriously. I stated my views on fat acceptance already.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
There is a difference between fat acceptance and fat shaming. Nobody...even if they are 500 pounds...should be ridiculed or discriminated against or told they can't wear whatever they want. However, obesity is not healthy, and people who are SERIOUSLY overweight/obese (and that is for a doctor to judge, not people on a message board) should be counseled and encouraged to lose weight for health reasons.I WAS overweight, no question about it. I loved my boobs and bum and didn't hate myself, but because I am apple shaped and things like the pill aren't as effective when you are overweight, it is unhealthy. I am not trying to pick on Ashley, I am just trying to discuss whether people think fat acceptance is okay and because, as she is an average sized compared to the average person whether or not she should be referred to as a plus sized model or not.
I am not in favor of "fat acceptance" if that means pretending there aren't health consequences. However, if it means acknowledging the health issues but also acknowledging that they are human beings who deserve to be treated with dignity and respect like any other, then that I support.
This woman has a BMI of just over 25...that means she is decimal places away from a "healthy" weight based on BMI. Do you also have a problem with the MANY models below an 18.5 BMI who are UNDERWEIGHT? There is a range of what is considered healthy. And even if something isn't healthy...because of weighing too much or too little...if people think these women will help sell their products they should be hired.
No, nowhere did I say I think anorexic models are ok (or ideal) and that plus sized models are not ok. I was discussing whether she should be classified as a plus sized model and whether fat acceptance is ok.
She is a plus sized model...yes. That is based on industry convention regarding size. Is she a plus sized woman? I would say no..you can buy size 14 in the majority of stores that don't carry "plus sizes".
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SconnieCat wrote: »Why the eff wouldn't 'fat acceptance' be ok? Or short acceptance? Or thin acceptance? Or tall acceptance? Or any other kind of acceptance you can think of?
You know the arguments against it, I haven't just made up the term now. These reasons from wikipedia
- 'Criticism[edit]
The fat acceptance movement has been criticised from a number of perspectives. Primarily there has been a conflict over the medicalisation of fat and health professionals have criticised proponents of fat acceptance for ignoring health issues that some studies have shown to be linked to obesity. Fat acceptance has also been challenged from a moral perspective and finally the movement has been criticised for being out of touch with the mainstream. Fat activism remains a marginal movement in that, according to one activist in 2008, "this movement Is just now gaining real momentum"[67] Organizations such as the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) and the International Size Acceptance Association (ISAA) have relatively low memberships, and people interested in the movement tend to be clustered in larger cities and spread across medium- to small-sized web communities.
Medical criticism[edit]
The fat acceptance movement has been criticized for not adding value to the debate over human health, with some critics accusing the movement of "promoting a lifestyle that can have dire health consequences".[68][69][70] In response, proponents of fat acceptance claim that being fat in and of itself is not a health problem and that long-term weight-loss is unsuccessful in the majority of cases.[71] Barry Franklin Ph. D. director of a cardio rehab facility states: "I don't want to take on any specific organisation but... A social movement that would suggest health at any size in many respects can be misleading".[72] Fat Acceptance campaigners also argue that current approaches constitute fat-shaming which, rather than leading to weight loss, results in psychological issues like eating disorders and more often functions counter-productively, resulting in weight gain.[73][74] However, scholar Daniel Callahan sees fat shaming, or "discrimination-lite" as he terms it, as a potential cure for obesity, expecting it to reduce obesity in the same way as being socially sanctioned for smoking eventually led to his smoking cessation.[75]
Dr. Arya Sharma, a Canadian obesity specialist, has accused fat acceptance advocates of using bad science tactics – of the kind previously used by the tobacco industry to promote denial of the health risks of smoking – to suggest that there is no such thing as an obesity epidemic, or that being overweight is completely health neutral.[76] Contrarily, fat acceptance campaigners raise concerns that modern culture's concern with weight loss may not have a foundation in scientific research, but instead is an example of using science as a means to control deviance, as a part of society's attempt to deal with something that it finds disturbing.[77][78]'0 -
Oh, brother.0
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Her body is far less realistic than the size 2 swimsuit models. Her "curves" (come on, that's ridiculous, they're fat deposits and nothing else) are airbrushed to hell, like most models.
Editors have given her the skin of an 18 year old girl, her cellulite and dimples are gone. Realistic and a good role model? Hardly. A 16% bodyfat female body can be achieved by just about anyone, if that's the priority. But it's at least achievable to some degree. A flawless skinned, dimple free, size 14 is not achievable.
But, she's beautiful nonetheless. Though, how is she a better role model for women? Because her legs rub on each other as she walks? Is that how the human body was designed to function? Seems a bit ridiculous to me, but I'm not a woman and know nothing of fat shaming.0 -
Ms. Graham is definitely a plus-size. She is also likely "overweight."
I don't care. She is absolutely one of the most beautiful and sexy women I have ever seen.0 -
Since when does a cover photo automatically equal "fat acceptance"? God forbid we ever put anything other than exactly average in every way people on the cover of a magazine, otherwise we might be accepting of their non-averageness!
And my $0.02, for what it's worth, is that everyone deserves to be accepted for what they look like. They might be having their own personal struggles with their appearance, and they don't necessarily have to accept who they are if they want to change, but SERIOUSLY what gives anyone else the right to deem them less-worthy of acceptance just based on their physical appearance?
If they're a total jerk, then that's a different story.0 -
redwoodkestrel wrote: »Since when does a cover photo automatically equal "fat acceptance"? God forbid we ever put anything other than exactly average in every way people on the cover of a magazine, otherwise we might be accepting of their non-averageness!
And my $0.02, for what it's worth, is that everyone deserves to be accepted for what they look like. They might be having their own personal struggles with their appearance, and they don't necessarily have to accept who they are if they want to change, but SERIOUSLY what gives anyone else the right to deem them less-worthy of acceptance just based on their physical appearance?
If they're a total jerk, then that's a different story.
She definitely deserves to be in the magazine. I didn't mean that because she is fat she doesn't deserve it. I am referring to the comments made by people saying she should be referred to as a 'real model' or an 'average model' rather than a 'plus sized'. I am referring to the fat acceptance by calling an overweight person normal rather than overweight. The acceptance/normalisation of the rising obesity levels. I DO NOT mean fat models shouldn't get an opportunity to have a photo shoot/ front cover. That is totally wrong.
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redwoodkestrel wrote: »Since when does a cover photo automatically equal "fat acceptance"? God forbid we ever put anything other than exactly average in every way people on the cover of a magazine, otherwise we might be accepting of their non-averageness!
And my $0.02, for what it's worth, is that everyone deserves to be accepted for what they look like. They might be having their own personal struggles with their appearance, and they don't necessarily have to accept who they are if they want to change, but SERIOUSLY what gives anyone else the right to deem them less-worthy of acceptance just based on their physical appearance?
If they're a total jerk, then that's a different story.
She definitely deserves to be in the magazine. I didn't mean that because she is fat she doesn't deserve it. I am referring to the comments made by people saying she should be referred to as a 'real model' or an 'average model' rather than a 'plus sized'. I am referring to the fat acceptance by calling an overweight person normal rather than overweight. The acceptance/normalisation of the rising obesity levels. I DO NOT mean fat models shouldn't get an opportunity to have a photo shoot/ front cover. That is totally wrong.
I didn't read that in your post either. I think people are taking what you said personally just because they are, not because that was your intent.0 -
Her body is far less realistic than the size 2 swimsuit models. Her "curves" (come on, that's ridiculous, they're fat deposits and nothing else) are airbrushed to hell, like most models.
Editors have given her the skin of an 18 year old girl, her cellulite and dimples are gone. Realistic and a good role model? Hardly. A 16% bodyfat female body can be achieved by just about anyone, if that's the priority. But it's at least achievable to some degree. A flawless skinned, dimple free, size 14 is not achievable.
But, she's beautiful nonetheless. Though, how is she a better role model for women? Because her legs rub on each other as she walks? Is that how the human body was designed to function? Seems a bit ridiculous to me, but I'm not a woman and know nothing of fat shaming.
While harshly stated, I do agree with some of this.
Airbrushing has made it seem like you can have this body size and shape without a little lumpiness and cellulite. The image in the picture is unattainable. Same with Kim Kardashian. Magazine photos are airbrushed. If you look at more candid shots of hers, she has cellulite. As someone who is curvier on the bottom and has that no matter how many squats I do, I do find it frustrating that now there's this unrealistic expectation out there that you can have this figure AND be perfectly smooth everywhere.
The model is beautiful. She should be proud of her work. But, she's no different from other models when it comes to airbrushing and we need to remember that.0 -
SconnieCat wrote: »
Why the eff wouldn't 'fat acceptance' be ok? Or short acceptance? Or thin acceptance? Or tall acceptance? Or any other kind of acceptance you can think of?
Life is entirely too damn short to have your panties in a bunch because someone who happens to wear a size in the double-digits chooses to wear a bikini. Or gets a spread in a magazine for it.
Who cares? If seeing someone termed by the superficial fashion industry as "plus sized" in a bathing suit is the worst thing that happens to me today, I'm having a damn good day. There are a lot worse things in the world than a woman with a nice *kitten* and the self-confidence to go along with it in a bathing suit.
Just my lil' ole' opinion.
^^ THIS. Yes! Thank you!
I wear a size 13, and I've decided that I'm going to go shopping for a bikini for the beach this year. Yep, and I will rock it with confidence. Whether people think I'm FAT or not, I'm going to rock it. I have acceptance for ME.0 -
StaceyJ2008 wrote: »Ashley Graham is 5'10 and weighs 165 pounds. She wears a size 14
And according to the fashion industry, plus size models start at a size 8. which is ridiculous. "
This is hilarious, I'm 5'4" and around 165lbs and wear a size 8, which according to the fashion industry also makes me plus size, though I'm not a model, so not sure what that makes me. Another reason why the scale doesn't matter.
Yes, I'm 5'4 and 161 as of this morning. I don't wear a size 14 or even a 12... I wear size 10 slacks and dresses. Size 8 in strectch jeans.0 -
StaceyJ2008 wrote: »Ashley Graham is 5'10 and weighs 165 pounds. She wears a size 14
And according to the fashion industry, plus size models start at a size 8. which is ridiculous. "
This is hilarious, I'm 5'4" and around 165lbs and wear a size 8, which according to the fashion industry also makes me plus size, though I'm not a model, so not sure what that makes me. Another reason why the scale doesn't matter.
Yes, I'm 5'4 and 161 as of this morning. I don't wear a size 14 or even a 12... I wear size 10 slacks and dresses. Size 8 in strectch jeans.
This just goes to show how different every person is shaped. This is actually fascinating because I am 5'8" and I weigh 137 pounds (as of this morning) and I wear a size 8 dress and jeans.
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For those focusing on weight/BMI as an indicator of health, Hafthor Bjornsson (Guy who played the last version of The Mountain in GoT, and is one of the 3 strongest humans on the planet) has a 45 BMI, and weighs in at 419lbs, at 6'9".
The guy who plays Hodor, Kristian Nairn, is about the same weight/BMI, at 6'10".
Totally different builds.0 -
I think she's gorgeous. I suspect her weight is one of those publicity fibs, because at 4-5 inches shorter, I was a size 10 at 160 pounds, sometimes an 8 if I was willing to be uncomfortable. Plus, I don't have giant boobies to add to my weight. I don't think there's a model or actress or actor who doesn't lie about their weight or height, sometimes their age.
Going by body fat percentage, she's probably at least close to a healthy range. If she's happy and healthy, good for her. I'd be happier being a higher body fat percentage if I looked that good. Sadly, mother nature is cruel to me and adds fat in weird and unappealing places, like back boobs instead of front boobs.
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We'd all be able to look that good with the right lighting and airbrushing and high heels. But high heels are not that practical in all the situations where you'd be in a bikini though. There would be cellulite in the real shots. She looks curvaceous and confident. But I'd rather be in the healthy weight category and look less curvaceous.0
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branflakes1980 wrote: »StaceyJ2008 wrote: »Ashley Graham is 5'10 and weighs 165 pounds. She wears a size 14
And according to the fashion industry, plus size models start at a size 8. which is ridiculous. "
This is hilarious, I'm 5'4" and around 165lbs and wear a size 8, which according to the fashion industry also makes me plus size, though I'm not a model, so not sure what that makes me. Another reason why the scale doesn't matter.
Yes, I'm 5'4 and 161 as of this morning. I don't wear a size 14 or even a 12... I wear size 10 slacks and dresses. Size 8 in strectch jeans.
This just goes to show how different every person is shaped. This is actually fascinating because I am 5'8" and I weigh 137 pounds (as of this morning) and I wear a size 8 dress and jeans.
www.mybodygallery.com amazing website will show you just how different people with the same stats can look0 -
emmydoodles83 wrote: »
www.mybodygallery.com amazing website will show you just how different people with the same stats can look
I must have a lot of muscle that I wasn't aware I even had, based on all the pics that are close to my own weight o.o
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Yes she is "overweight".
Yes she is "plus size".
Is she healthy? I don't know. I'm not her doctor.
Is she beautiful and sexy? In my opinion, yes.
Are those images photoshopped to remove cellulite and rolls? Probably.
Do I want a body similar to hers? No, that's not my preference.0
This discussion has been closed.
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