So for those maintaining below 2000/day, is this a lifetime commitment?
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Packerjohn wrote: »I have no ideas where you are getting these numbers from. I'm 5'10", 150 pounds (21.5 BMI), 54, female. MFP says my maintenance calories at sedentary are 1700. It works - I've done this for several years. I'm not hungry, I eat what I want, my weight has stayed within 3 pounds +- the whole time. This is maintenance. Yes, I plan on doing this forever.
Now, I have a fitbit and, when I walk more, I get to eat more. But not a huge amount more. I usually eat under 2000.
When I was young I would eat a lot more. My super skinny sons do. Each of them eat more calories than my husband and I together. I slowly gained a pound a year when I hit 40, my metabolism slowed down, and my eating didn't.
Yeah, things change when you get older.
Which numbers? My own personal numbers?
I'm 5'7", 65 years old. I eat around 2300 calories a day, no formal excersize and maintain around 165 pounds. I don't diet, I eat three meals a day, two snacks if I need them.
The reason I do this is because I read some scientific reviews that said that eating under 2000 calories can deplete the fat cells so much that certain hormonal deficiencies will occur, thyroid, dopamine, opioid receptors will deplete. You end up with less bone strength, poor digestion, less muscles and cessation of periods if you are a woman and more.
But no one believes me and they feel attacked because it seems the obesity scare is so prevalent, and fat fear is big and people like to feel like movie stars I guess. Well, like skinny movie stars anyway. But thats ok, I just wondered if people were truly prepared to eat so measily a bunch of rations for the rest of their lives when they could be eating more.
I am surprized that so many people on the maintenance part of MFP maintain at such low calorie intakes or run five miles before breakfast and lift weights in the evening while eating less than I do doing nothing at age 65.
Best wishes on your health and may you and your family be happy in all the years to come!
Can you post up the article?
Well, I thought about this overnight and I will explain why I think 2000 is probably accurate as a bottom line. But I won't post the article because the writter has done a TON of research on metabolism, and on the results of diets on the general population and on eating disorders and she is a rather sensitive intellectual type and after reading all these posts I feel it would be irresponsible of me to reveal her name. She has enough disgruntled dieters to fend off these days. I also have a life and I don't want to go through her bibliography and do the heavy work of combing through tonnes to bring you the gems of science that you can find yourselves much easier than I can.
It won't take you long to research yourselves.
To start with is the beginning. The beginning is: How did we begin to know exactly how many calories a person needs to maintain a certain weight? This was originally done by a poll.
Well, not exactly a poll, but not very much different than a poll. My understanding is they asked a lot of people how many calories they ate per day and weighed those people then calculated the averages and graphed those and there it is, calories per day to eat to maintain a certain weight. The one that is still in use today.
Later somebody had some misgivings. Maybe that wasn't really very scientific of them, maybe people weren't really very sure of EXACTLY how many calories they ate per day.
So, secondly, there was a much more accurate study done where they actually made sure to watch and verify exactly how many calories per day the test people ate.
This research showed that almost everybody underestimates their caloric intake by around 500 calories per day. So there you have it. I know I underestimate calories, left to my own imagination.
The nasty political implications here are that for some reason this hasn't yet filtered down to us in any form. I feel pretty sure that owners of MFP and CC know about this though. If you keep following the guidlines set on these sites and use the Calorie Counters, you can't help but lose weight because you are eating 1000, not 500 calories under your needs per day if you follow the guidlines set on these sites. The owners of these sites must have thought to themselves how can we not be a success?
As most of you know metabolic disorders can be caused by consistent restriction below your normal calorie requirement.
I have no axe to grind. I really was very curious to see just how this error, a grand error, was playing itself out with sincere dieters like yourselves.
There is a lot of speculation as to why this information has not filtered down to us. Worries about the 'obesity epidemic', or concerns that if the amount of calories per day given to the public is raised to the more accurate level and made public, people will of course keep estimating it wrong and be actually eating 500 a day more, and cause even more fatties! Then the earth will become lopsided with all the heaviness on one side and go off course spinning away! Who really knows, but as with most things there is probably a monetary underpinning to the withheld and more accurate analysis of calories per day to maintain certain weights.
So there you have it, have at it!
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Ok, I seem to be hitting a nerve there wolfman. I don't know why. Are you ok with eating your maintenance cals for the rest of your life? I find most people here aren't really, that they struggle like hell to maintain and are hungry and eat reactivly on maintenance. I hear a lot of people having trouble when their appetite kicks them after restricting calories for so long when they start to eat to maintain.
I'm just asking if you plan to do it for life? To limit yourself to maintenance cals until you die and do you think you will be happy with that ongoing?
This isn't demon time! Just asking.
Yes.
Ok, one more vote for, yes, another person is willing to use the MFP guidlines for maintenance evn though it is actually 500 calories under what would be maintenance and is then in fact resticting for the rest of her life!
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So there is no article.
Gotcha. :noway:0 -
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Lol lol lol
People who are underestimating their calories are 99% of the time not weighing, measuring and logging their food. That doesn't apply to the people on here who are doing that.
If your logic applied everyone here would lose a lb a week more than expected. Yet most aren't.
You are an amusing troll, as I don't think this angle has been played before.
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Ok, I seem to be hitting a nerve there wolfman. I don't know why. Are you ok with eating your maintenance cals for the rest of your life? I find most people here aren't really, that they struggle like hell to maintain and are hungry and eat reactivly on maintenance. I hear a lot of people having trouble when their appetite kicks them after restricting calories for so long when they start to eat to maintain.
I'm just asking if you plan to do it for life? To limit yourself to maintenance cals until you die and do you think you will be happy with that ongoing?
This isn't demon time! Just asking.
Yes.
Ok, one more vote for, yes, another person is willing to use the MFP guidlines for maintenance evn though it is actually 500 calories under what would be maintenance and is then in fact resticting for the rest of her life!
Dying.
If they were 500 cals under maintance they would continue to lose weight. I think they might notice that :laugh:0 -
So OP Based on the numbers you have posted, you are overweight. No, it is not a fault in BMI, because you say you do not exercise, so you are not having a body builder's body. So, by eating whatever you are eating you are maintaining at this weight, and you are happy with it. Good for you. If it does not affect your health and you are happy, who cares. What is exactly your point though? That everyone should maintain at the exact same body weight as you? That everybody should maintain at whatever weight makes them overweight? I am confused.0
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beckkkahhhx3 wrote: »I am shocked so many people maintain below 2000. I am underweight, 5'5ish and maintain on 3000 doing yoga 5-7 times a week.
Do you weigh and measure all your food? What do you do for a living.
If do then you are an outlier, probably with a very natural high neat. Sadly that is not the norm.0 -
Of course it doesnt apply to people here, it applies to those studies.Iron_Feline wrote: »Lol lol lol
People who are underestimating their calories are 99% of the time not weighing, measuring and logging their food. That doesn't apply to the people on here who are doing that.
If your logic applied everyone here would lose a lb a week more than expected. Yet most aren't.
You are an amusing troll, as I don't think this angle has been played before.
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Would you mind sharing some of these studies? I'm genuinely curious.
Of course it doesnt apply to people here, it applies to those studies.Iron_Feline wrote: »Lol lol lol
People who are underestimating their calories are 99% of the time not weighing, measuring and logging their food. That doesn't apply to the people on here who are doing that.
If your logic applied everyone here would lose a lb a week more than expected. Yet most aren't.
You are an amusing troll, as I don't think this angle has been played before.
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Iron_Feline wrote: »Ok, I seem to be hitting a nerve there wolfman. I don't know why. Are you ok with eating your maintenance cals for the rest of your life? I find most people here aren't really, that they struggle like hell to maintain and are hungry and eat reactivly on maintenance. I hear a lot of people having trouble when their appetite kicks them after restricting calories for so long when they start to eat to maintain.
I'm just asking if you plan to do it for life? To limit yourself to maintenance cals until you die and do you think you will be happy with that ongoing?
This isn't demon time! Just asking.
Yes.
Ok, one more vote for, yes, another person is willing to use the MFP guidlines for maintenance evn though it is actually 500 calories under what would be maintenance and is then in fact resticting for the rest of her life!
Dying.
If they were 500 cals under maintance they would continue to lose weight. I think they might notice that :laugh:
By the time they have been dieting to lose their desired weight, they have adjusted their bodies to exist on less calories and they will have to mai twin on 500 less thqn their actual needs in order to stay at the weight they stop dieting at. This is well known, no need to cite science for that one is thee?
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I'm curious to know if those who maintain at lower than 2000 a day are happy with that and are you planning to continue it for life. If not what is your plan and do you think that low calorie maintenance will have an impact on you health?
Yuppers - I am very comfortable maintaining at 1230 -1450ish calories; it was an seamless transition from losing & has been truly effortless to maintain.
I'm 4'10" and have been maintaining for 18+ mos.
As long as I continue to feel that 1230 -1450ish calories is something that I can carry on with minimum effort I plan to continue.
Best of luck to you!
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Of course it doesnt apply to people here, it applies to those studies.Iron_Feline wrote: »Lol lol lol
People who are underestimating their calories are 99% of the time not weighing, measuring and logging their food. That doesn't apply to the people on here who are doing that.
If your logic applied everyone here would lose a lb a week more than expected. Yet most aren't.
You are an amusing troll, as I don't think this angle has been played before.
Lol
Then what is even your point?
Then why did you say we'd all be maintaining on 500 less than we should be.
Try harder troll.
And post the study.0 -
So OP Based on the numbers you have posted, you are overweight. No, it is not a fault in BMI, because you say you do not exercise, so you are not having a body builder's body. So, by eating whatever you are eating you are maintaining at this weight, and you are happy with it. Good for you. If it does not affect your health and you are happy, who cares. What is exactly your point though? That everyone should maintain at the exact same body weight as you? That everybody should maintain at whatever weight makes them overweight? I am confused.
No, absolutely not! Never said that. I am 65 years old, so my bmi is actually healthier at the over weight category than at the normal bmi. Surprisingly I do have good muscle mass and good bone density, as I have housework and I lift my accordion onto my shoulders daily and walk around playing it in the street weather permitting. Here in France we have abit more active lives too.
You can find info about people over 50 and how bmi is better for them at higher values of you go to the Halls page and clidk on someof the links from the firwt page to see graphs and two science papers about that.
From what I read here a very few people are able to maintain their weight successfully after dieting without upping excersize consideably or continueing to eat a lot less calories than is advised as a healthy amount.
I really have no axe to grind, I am interested in finding persons who will share their experiences with maintenance after dieting as we have now some questions as to the effectiveness of weight loss programs in general to sustain health at all.
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yes there are a few blogs and sites that dedicate themselves to this current problem and those people have done all the homework. Actually this isn't all that new in the world of research on diets inablilty to produce healthful results, as much as we have the faith that they will and spend millions trying to make it work.Iron_Feline wrote: »So there is no article.
Gotcha. :noway:
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beckkkahhhx3 wrote: »I am shocked so many people maintain below 2000. I am underweight, 5'5ish and maintain on 3000 doing yoga 5-7 times a week.
Thanks for taking the time to post that.
You have a normal metabolism!
Cheers and enjoy your day!
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yes there are a few blogs and sites that dedicate themselves to this current problem and those people have done all the homework. Actually this isn't all that new in the world of research on diets inablilty to produce healthful results, as much as we have the faith that they will and spend millions trying to make it work.Iron_Feline wrote: »So there is no article.
Gotcha. :noway:
Again. There are no scientific article backing your claims.
Blogs and sites are not proof.0 -
RaspberryTickleChicken wrote: »I'm curious to know if those who maintain at lower than 2000 a day are happy with that and are you planning to continue it for life. If not what is your plan and do you think that low calorie maintenance will have an impact on you health?
Yuppers - I am very comfortable maintaining at 1230 -1450ish calories; it was an seamless transition from losing & has been truly effortless to maintain.
I'm 4'10" and have been maintaining for 18+ mos.
As long as I continue to feel that 1230 -1450ish calories is something that I can carry on with minimum effort I plan to continue.
Best of luck to you!
Thank you so much, very sweet of you to reply. :-)
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Of course it doesnt apply to people here, it applies to those studies.Iron_Feline wrote: »Lol lol lol
People who are underestimating their calories are 99% of the time not weighing, measuring and logging their food. That doesn't apply to the people on here who are doing that.
If your logic applied everyone here would lose a lb a week more than expected. Yet most aren't.
You are an amusing troll, as I don't think this angle has been played before.
You can find anything on the internet to support your words and it doesn't make it true.
You have found what works for you, and that is terrific.
Why is it so difficult to believe some of us have found what works for us? I have done this with my doctor's blessing and approval for the number of calories I consume to maintain, no more than 1700/day. I go to the gym every morning and work out for 1 hour, plus walks daily. I am 5'2-3/4", 63 years old, and I do begin to gain if I eat over 1700 calories. I was morbidly obese, and have been maintaining for over 15 months. I am in better shape and happier than I have been in decades.
It is simply wrong to categorize everyone as the same, or by your standards. We are all different.
Back up your information with where you get your study information.
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Of course it doesnt apply to people here, it applies to those studies.Iron_Feline wrote: »Lol lol lol
People who are underestimating their calories are 99% of the time not weighing, measuring and logging their food. That doesn't apply to the people on here who are doing that.
If your logic applied everyone here would lose a lb a week more than expected. Yet most aren't.
You are an amusing troll, as I don't think this angle has been played before.
If it doesn't apply here, then why did you say that it does by saying that people here are eating at a 1000 calorie deficit instead of a 500 calorie deficit, because the nasty MFP people are lying to us? People here weigh and measure our food. We are not underestimating our calories unless we do it wrong which most don't.
Your stance has no backing and no evidence unless you post the studies. If you don't, everyone is going to assume that those studies do not exist. You can find plenty of studies saying the exact opposite of what you're saying if you look for them.
And no, maintenance calories are NOT affected by long periods of dieting. My mother maintained her whole life on about 1700 calories at about 150lbs and 5'7. Her twin sister ate too much and got up to about 200lbs, then dieted and got down to the same weight as my mum, and ALSO maintained on about 1700 calories. (Neither exercised)0 -
yes there are a few blogs and sites that dedicate themselves to this current problem and those people have done all the homework. Actually this isn't all that new in the world of research on diets inablilty to produce healthful results, as much as we have the faith that they will and spend millions trying to make it work.Iron_Feline wrote: »So there is no article.
Gotcha. :noway:
theflatearthsociety.org/cms/
There are blogs and sites that dedicate themselves to all sorts of things.0 -
Is that all you wanted?Ok, I seem to be hitting a nerve there wolfman. I don't know why. Are you ok with eating your maintenance cals for the rest of your life? I find most people here aren't really, that they struggle like hell to maintain and are hungry and eat reactivly on maintenance. I hear a lot of people having trouble when their appetite kicks them after restricting calories for so long when they start to eat to maintain.
I'm just asking if you plan to do it for life? To limit yourself to maintenance cals until you die and do you think you will be happy with that ongoing?
This isn't demon time! Just asking.
Yes.
Ok, one more vote for, yes, another person is willing to use the MFP guidlines for maintenance evn though it is actually 500 calories under what would be maintenance and is then in fact resticting for the rest of her life!
I didn't count to lose. I don't count in maintenance. I do plan to eat in a way that will help me keep maintaining. the end.
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I'm genuinely confused - do you mean:
a) that most of the people here maintaining at below 2000 are trying to keep an unnaturally low body weight which is unhealthy in the long term because all bodies need over 2000 to function at their 'peak'?
or
b) that for some reason people here have damaged their metabolisms and have effectively chosen to maintain at a lower than normal or healthy calorie intake, which is why they aren't losing weight despite eating what you feel is an unhealthily meager amount?
or am I just totally lost?
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Ok, I seem to be hitting a nerve there wolfman. I don't know why. Are you ok with eating your maintenance cals for the rest of your life? I find most people here aren't really, that they struggle like hell to maintain and are hungry and eat reactivly on maintenance. I hear a lot of people having trouble when their appetite kicks them after restricting calories for so long when they start to eat to maintain.
I'm just asking if you plan to do it for life? To limit yourself to maintenance cals until you die and do you think you will be happy with that ongoing?
This isn't demon time! Just asking.
Yes.
Ok, one more vote for, yes, another person is willing to use the MFP guidlines for maintenance evn though it is actually 500 calories under what would be maintenance and is then in fact resticting for the rest of her life!
No. You asked if people were ok eating their maintenance calories for the rest of their lifes. I said yes. You did not ask if we were going to use MFP or other guidelines. My maintanance calories were figured out after a few months of experimenting with my calories to figure out what they would be after I lost my weight. But, this amount of calories is close to what MFP would have given me anyway. And even thoough according to you, this is a deficit for me, being under 2000 calories, I have been maintaining for almost a year. Weird.0 -
I would be gaining weight if I ate at 2000 calories every day. It depends on your activity level and what your body is used to.0
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I'm grateful to you for having posted this. I am sorry, I did get derailed there and thank you for posting your maintenance amount and the time you have maintained your weight on that amount of calories.
Have you incrased your excersize, what is your height and age, if you don't mind sharing it?
I'm awed that you say you have eaten the same amount of calories over the year and maintained the same weight. I assume your activity level is the same now as when you started maintenance?0 -
I'm genuinely confused - do you mean:
a) that most of the people here maintaining at below 2000 are trying to keep an unnaturally low body weight which is unhealthy in the long term because all bodies need over 2000 to function at their 'peak'?
or
b) that for some reason people here have damaged their metabolisms and have effectively chosen to maintain at a lower than normal or healthy calorie intake, which is why they aren't losing weight despite eating what you feel is an unhealthily meager amount?
or am I just totally lost?
yes simpson, I think diets lessen the strength of metabolism mostly because the caloric intake guidlines are scewed as I mentioned before at about 500 calories less than what we should be eating. I have also seen evidence, its pretty well known, that restricting calories eventually leads to plateu, because bodies adapt to the lower amount, resulting in a never ending cycle of either upping activity, or lowering calories, and/or switching diets to restrict different foods: for example going from a vegetarian diet to a paleo or atkins approach.
I think your a) above is also extremely probable as well, but that wasn't my concern at this point.
Thank you for this well composed question, it helped me to clarify.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Is that all you wanted?Ok, I seem to be hitting a nerve there wolfman. I don't know why. Are you ok with eating your maintenance cals for the rest of your life? I find most people here aren't really, that they struggle like hell to maintain and are hungry and eat reactivly on maintenance. I hear a lot of people having trouble when their appetite kicks them after restricting calories for so long when they start to eat to maintain.
I'm just asking if you plan to do it for life? To limit yourself to maintenance cals until you die and do you think you will be happy with that ongoing?
This isn't demon time! Just asking.
Yes.
Ok, one more vote for, yes, another person is willing to use the MFP guidlines for maintenance evn though it is actually 500 calories under what would be maintenance and is then in fact resticting for the rest of her life!
I didn't count to lose. I don't count in maintenance. I do plan to eat in a way that will help me keep maintaining. the end.
Thanks! I am curious as to how you eat to keep maintaining! If you care to share it of course. I would like to stop counting, I did so for over two years but realized I was not eating enough, so I began counting again a few weeks ago.
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