THE BIG STARVATION MODE MYTH.

yarwell

the only thing worse than a massive wall of text is a requote of the same with a word or two added at the bottom.

ironanimal

the only thing worse than a massive wall of text is a requote of the same with a word or two added at the bottom.

You're welcome

DatMurse

Here is another thing to keep in mind Fat just sits there. You do not burn any energy to have an over abundance of fat. Fat is a storage shelf for the body. Think of it as the closet you jam things in you might need down the road (energy), or things you don't know how to get rid of (toxins). It just sits there closed, and you never look into it until you need something. Lean muscle is used constantly (so it needs energy constantly to maintain). It is like the kitchen in a house full of people, there is always someone cooking in it. The more lean muscle you have the more fuel it needs (the more you have to cook). If you are overweight, and you stop taking in more junk than you really need (to shove in the closet), and start building more lean muscle(cooking in your own kitchen kitchen) your eventually going to need that pan your mom bought you in that storage closet. Guess what that pan, is at the bottom of the closet so you have to clean it out to get to it, and then you find the hiking boots(exercise) you have been looking for to build even more lean muscle(means more energy is needed). So now you have to cook more food in the kitchen, but you don't have anymore pans in the closet, because you have cleaned out the junk. Now you have no choice but to go buy another set, and keep cooking more food, more often to keep up. Nothing is stored, and nothing is wasted. This is how our bodies should be. Hormones are the lubricant to keep the body functions moving, and keep us from becoming content with the closet full of junk we might need down the road, if life changes. It works for me to see it this way, but maybe not for you. I hope this info helps someone else that the only reason I am writing novels here...lol If someone has a better way to put it, or something else to add to the collective wealth of knowledge please enlighten!

So this was a total ramble to try to say how I picture the studies I have read, and how I perceive the body using fat, and energy, and how lean muscle is built. It was really bad...... I am not a writer by any means. Please excuse the poorly written analogy and just understand the bodies exposure to hormone shifts caused by poor diet choices. (i.e. super low calorie diets for extended periods of time, and/ or nutrient lacking foods)

so starvation mode is like an old set of pans that do not work any more????

This is what I was trying to say in a very long winded terrible ramble is.... Fat is a storage facility in the body where the liver our bodies filter can store an overabundance of energy to be processed later if needed. Toxins can also be stored in fat for the body to deal with later if the liver is too busy extracting the important nutrients our bodies need. Muscle, is in a constant state of movement, and therefore needs energy to maintain it. If we are obese, and we cut our caloric intake than our bodies do start to use the stored energy in our fat. If we build more lean muscle through exercise we will need more energy to maintain the new larger muscle mass, and than our bodies will use more of that stored energy in our fat causing it to shrinks. Right? However, if we stop feeding ourselves, or cut calories too low than our bodies say, "Wait a minute.....something is wrong we have not had...Fat,... or Carbohydrates,.. or Protein in a few days. Whats wrong? OMG maybe we need to stop supplying the muscle so much energy, and hold a little back in our fat stores. Let the muscle starve a little for the bodies greater good." This is when Cortisol kicks in. Now, understand Cortisol is important in the body. It is part of the "Fight or Flight" response in our body allowing us to prepare for danger or cope with stress. Like needing to run away from something that wants to eat us, or there is not enough food for us to keep functioning at this level of energy use. Cortisol is released by our Adrenal Gland, and if levels become too high from constant stress, or from not eating enough of the right foods.( where our bodies think it might be awhile before we get fat again, or protein again, or carbohydrates again) The increased Cortisol signals the Thyroid which is responsible for telling the cells how quickly to "burn" energy. The Thyroid slows down it's important hormone production by sending a signal to the Hypothalamus to slow production of HGH in the Pituitary gland, so the energy "burn" slows down by the Thyroid which slows down production of important hormones needed to tell the cells "burn" more energy. This then slows down fat storage be burned for energy, and to hold on to it for the future in case it needs it later, and so the body can then lower the Cortisol levels back to normal. Then when the body perceives cortisol levels are lower, and we are no longer in "Fight or Flight", and hey look we are getting the fat, and/ or protein, and/or carbohydrates we needed again. The Hypothalamus says OK lets pick up energy use again to maintain our muscle, and HGH goes back up, Thyroid function goes back up, we "burn" more energy again. Insulin is part of this function too, If we avoid peaks, and valleys by eating consistently enough that our bodies get a gentle roll in our bloodsugar levels instead of spikes, and than dramatic drops our bodies see this as an abundant food supply is at hand we can afford to let go of some of the stored energy to help the energy "burn" in our cells so we can grow lean muscle which uses more energy, and we have plenty of good nutrient rich food to do that. My idea of what "starvation mode" means , nothing like real starvation as in, dying because there is not enough to even maintain normal life function. It is "starving" your cells of a well balanced nutrient rich diet, through poor caloric intake for you own person. This means you need to find the right calorie intake for you! The way I think we do this is by trail and error. You have to have variety (to ensure you are getting all the nutrients needed), consistency (so your hormones such as Cortisol stay balance to optimize energy "burn", and just enough calories (to keep you satisfied, or not hungry {so you don't binge and throw off your bloodsugar level}). Since some of us are heavily muscled, and some are not we require a specifically tailored amount of calories to maintain the balance. The more lean muscle, the more calories you may need to maintain that lean muscle. The less lean muscle you have means, you need less calories in your daily diet. Exercise is important to build the lean muscle needed to burn more energy. The calorie intake is important to maintain hormone balance to let go of fat stored. Both components are important to losing weight, but understand they are different components that have to work together to achieve your ultimate goal of a slim, well muscled, lean you. So still long winded, but way more technical description of how I understand what I have learned than any analogy I could try to spit out. I promise I will never try to story tell again. I will stick to the facts.

Saucy_lil_Minx

Yep! hurt me too, but I had to redeem my completely stupid analogy that just stunk to high heaven!!

etoiles_argentees

Actually, no one is certain on cortisol yet. It might actually increase gains in lean muscle mass. I think it started with the dissertation by Daniel West, and they're still studying it.

and, what?

Insulin is part of this function too, If we avoid peaks, and valleys by eating consistently enough that our bodies get a gentle roll in our bloodsugar levels instead of spikes, and than dramatic drops our bodies see this as an abundant food supply is at hand we can afford to let go of some of the stored energy to help the energy "burn" in our cells so we can grow lean muscle which uses more energy, and we have plenty of good nutrient rich food to do that.

I'm sorry, I can't read your posts very well. They hurt my head.

ndj1979

Actually, no one is certain on cortisol yet. It might actually increase gains in lean muscle mass. I think it started with the dissertation by Daniel West, and they're still studying it.

and, what?

Insulin is part of this function too, If we avoid peaks, and valleys by eating consistently enough that our bodies get a gentle roll in our bloodsugar levels instead of spikes, and than dramatic drops our bodies see this as an abundant food supply is at hand we can afford to let go of some of the stored energy to help the energy "burn" in our cells so we can grow lean muscle which uses more energy, and we have plenty of good nutrient rich food to do that.

I'm sorry, I can't read your posts very well. They hurt my head.

i believe translation is = build lean muscle to assist with calorie burn...

but never heard insulin spikes described as a "gentle roll" a spike by nature is not "gentle" ...

whatevs..

AnvilHead

i believe translation is = build lean muscle to assist with calorie burn...

...and if I recall the math correctly, a pound of fat burns somewhere around 2 calories per day; a pound of muscle burns 6. So a 20 lb. increase in muscle mass (which is a quite remarkable increase) would increase one's calorie burn by 80 whole calories per day.

chrisdavey

I thought it was 6cals and 10cals. Neglible either way but every bit helps

Nancyrose: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph Hope that helps.

chrisdavey

double

linalovekitty

heres what I know: in the past when ive dieted strictly and hit a plateau, a big cheat day followed by going back to strict dieting ALWAYS breaks through the plateau and usually pretty big time.

Years ago, I was losing weight going from 124lbs down to 115lbs. My goal was 108. I kept dieting, restricting, exercising, etc. I had been hovering at 115 for weeks. Then one morning I woke up and I was 116! It made no sense. I complained to a friend and they suggested eating something fattening. Seemed counter intuitive but that night I ate pizza. Greasy, cheesy pizza. 2 days later I was 112!

__Di__

the only thing worse than a massive wall of text is a requote of the same with a word or two added at the bottom.

I tried reading that wall of text, but couldn't, it did my eyes in.

It needed paragraphs to stop me doing this line of smileys:

:noway: :frown: :huh:

__Di__

i believe translation is = build lean muscle to assist with calorie burn...

...and if I recall the math correctly, a pound of fat burns somewhere around 2 calories per day; a pound of muscle burns 6. So a 20 lb. increase in muscle mass (which is a quite remarkable increase) would increase one's calorie burn by 80 whole calories per day.

Is this true? Gonna Google later if I remember, interesting!

yarwell

...and if I recall the math correctly, a pound of fat burns somewhere around 2 calories per day; a pound of muscle burns 6. So a 20 lb. increase in muscle mass (which is a quite remarkable increase) would increase one's calorie burn by 80 whole calories per day.

Depends which researcher you choose, Katch-McArdle would credit you with about 200 calories a day of extra BMR if you added 20 lbs of "fat free mass".

55in13

The "muscle burns more calories" almost needs its own page. It's not exactly a myth because that is true. The common myths are how much more it burns, how much muscle you are likely to add, that you can easily maintain the same diet and that it isn't that hard to keep it once you have it. Oddly enough, I think the last one fuels the first one. In order to keep that extra muscle, you will have to work it regularly, so you do get more burn.

Pausing to add a note to another poster. The blank line above this one is called white space. The chunks of text between the white space are called paragraphs. People like that. Back to our regular programming...

Now I am about to be guilty of possibly perpetuating a myth because this is part conclusion from experience and part reading but I haven't seen a definitive study stating it explicitly. It seems that when you restrict calories, you will lose muscle if you are bulked up even while there are some fat stores available (though you will also be losing fat and more fat than muscle if your BF% is over 10 or so).

Penny_Harrison

I am with you, I find it hard to believe your body goes into starvation eationg 1200 calories a day. Anorexics stop eating and they lose weight. (and im not recommending anorexia as a weight loss solution here, just saying!)

DatMurse

I am with you, I find it hard to believe your body goes into starvation eationg 1200 calories a day. Anorexics stop eating and they lose weight. (and im not recommending anorexia as a weight loss solution here, just saying!)

mind=blown

common sense, seems like many people want to reject it

Joehenny

What did I even just re- never mind, **** it.

ndj1979

Here is another thing to keep in mind Fat just sits there. You do not burn any energy to have an over abundance of fat. Fat is a storage shelf for the body. Think of it as the closet you jam things in you might need down the road (energy), or things you don't know how to get rid of (toxins). It just sits there closed, and you never look into it until you need something. Lean muscle is used constantly (so it needs energy constantly to maintain). It is like the kitchen in a house full of people, there is always someone cooking in it. The more lean muscle you have the more fuel it needs (the more you have to cook). If you are overweight, and you stop taking in more junk than you really need (to shove in the closet), and start building more lean muscle(cooking in your own kitchen kitchen) your eventually going to need that pan your mom bought you in that storage closet. Guess what that pan, is at the bottom of the closet so you have to clean it out to get to it, and then you find the hiking boots(exercise) you have been looking for to build even more lean muscle(means more energy is needed). So now you have to cook more food in the kitchen, but you don't have anymore pans in the closet, because you have cleaned out the junk. Now you have no choice but to go buy another set, and keep cooking more food, more often to keep up. Nothing is stored, and nothing is wasted. This is how our bodies should be. Hormones are the lubricant to keep the body functions moving, and keep us from becoming content with the closet full of junk we might need down the road, if life changes. It works for me to see it this way, but maybe not for you. I hope this info helps someone else that the only reason I am writing novels here...lol If someone has a better way to put it, or something else to add to the collective wealth of knowledge please enlighten!

So this was a total ramble to try to say how I picture the studies I have read, and how I perceive the body using fat, and energy, and how lean muscle is built. It was really bad...... I am not a writer by any means. Please excuse the poorly written analogy and just understand the bodies exposure to hormone shifts caused by poor diet choices. (i.e. super low calorie diets for extended periods of time, and/ or nutrient lacking foods)

so starvation mode is like an old set of pans that do not work any more????

This is what I was trying to say in a very long winded terrible ramble is.... Fat is a storage facility in the body where the liver our bodies filter can store an overabundance of energy to be processed later if needed. Toxins can also be stored in fat for the body to deal with later if the liver is too busy extracting the important nutrients our bodies need. Muscle, is in a constant state of movement, and therefore needs energy to maintain it. If we are obese, and we cut our caloric intake than our bodies do start to use the stored energy in our fat. If we build more lean muscle through exercise we will need more energy to maintain the new larger muscle mass, and than our bodies will use more of that stored energy in our fat causing it to shrinks. Right? However, if we stop feeding ourselves, or cut calories too low than our bodies say, "Wait a minute.....something is wrong we have not had...Fat,... or Carbohydrates,.. or Protein in a few days. Whats wrong? OMG maybe we need to stop supplying the muscle so much energy, and hold a little back in our fat stores. Let the muscle starve a little for the bodies greater good." This is when Cortisol kicks in. Now, understand Cortisol is important in the body. It is part of the "Fight or Flight" response in our body allowing us to prepare for danger or cope with stress. Like needing to run away from something that wants to eat us, or there is not enough food for us to keep functioning at this level of energy use. Cortisol is released by our Adrenal Gland, and if levels become too high from constant stress, or from not eating enough of the right foods.( where our bodies think it might be awhile before we get fat again, or protein again, or carbohydrates again) The increased Cortisol signals the Thyroid which is responsible for telling the cells how quickly to "burn" energy. The Thyroid slows down it's important hormone production by sending a signal to the Hypothalamus to slow production of HGH in the Pituitary gland, so the energy "burn" slows down by the Thyroid which slows down production of important hormones needed to tell the cells "burn" more energy. This then slows down fat storage be burned for energy, and to hold on to it for the future in case it needs it later, and so the body can then lower the Cortisol levels back to normal. Then when the body perceives cortisol levels are lower, and we are no longer in "Fight or Flight", and hey look we are getting the fat, and/ or protein, and/or carbohydrates we needed again. The Hypothalamus says OK lets pick up energy use again to maintain our muscle, and HGH goes back up, Thyroid function goes back up, we "burn" more energy again. Insulin is part of this function too, If we avoid peaks, and valleys by eating consistently enough that our bodies get a gentle roll in our bloodsugar levels instead of spikes, and than dramatic drops our bodies see this as an abundant food supply is at hand we can afford to let go of some of the stored energy to help the energy "burn" in our cells so we can grow lean muscle which uses more energy, and we have plenty of good nutrient rich food to do that. My idea of what "starvation mode" means , nothing like real starvation as in, dying because there is not enough to even maintain normal life function. It is "starving" your cells of a well balanced nutrient rich diet, through poor caloric intake for you own person. This means you need to find the right calorie intake for you! The way I think we do this is by trail and error. You have to have variety (to ensure you are getting all the nutrients needed), consistency (so your hormones such as Cortisol stay balance to optimize energy "burn", and just enough calories (to keep you satisfied, or not hungry {so you don't binge and throw off your bloodsugar level}). Since some of us are heavily muscled, and some are not we require a specifically tailored amount of calories to maintain the balance. The more lean muscle, the more calories you may need to maintain that lean muscle. The less lean muscle you have means, you need less calories in your daily diet. Exercise is important to build the lean muscle needed to burn more energy. The calorie intake is important to maintain hormone balance to let go of fat stored. Both components are important to losing weight, but understand they are different components that have to work together to achieve your ultimate goal of a slim, well muscled, lean you. So still long winded, but way more technical description of how I understand what I have learned than any analogy I could try to spit out. I promise I will never try to story tell again. I will stick to the facts.

Ummmm yea, you really need to separate your ramblings into paragraphs...good lord that is like an episode of war and peace...

spalmisano145

i am so totally confused right now. Eat more... eat less ??? Ive been exercising at the gym with a trainer for a month and a half and i have not lost a pound. i have not tracked my food until lately but from what i see i have been eating roughly 12-1500 calories a day. I'm not hungry as my trainer said i need to eat 5 times a day. I am weight lifting,with aerobics and try to change it up every so often. my body has moved around my fat, but the bottom line no weight difference at the scale. Should i be eating less than 1200? My protein intake is over the recommended amount and i drink protein shakes for breakfast and lunch.

Matt_Wild

Too many people on this thread confuse losing weight and losing body fat. Not the same thing. Anyone can lose weight, make a smaller, just as fat version of you, just smaller.

There are optimum ways of dieting and maintaining muscle mass and there are suboptimal ways. Both ways will lose weight, some will burn fat more readily than others, over muscle.

But since you are losing WEIGHT at 1200 calories, who cares where that weight is coming from, huh?

faithsimmons526

Oh gosh ... I too wonder if it's so or if it isn't. As a normal human being I figure I must be on a diet of 1200 in order to lose weight ... and of course, it works. Noticed a few members who said they couldn't lose weight unless they ate at least 2000 calories, and I thought WOW ... wish I could do that. Then I thought about it. I have no idea where my lose/gain point is ... because I don't count the danged calories unless I'm trying to lose weight.

As a non-expert, I would like to share something I watched a friend find success with. The two of us were dieting and exercising together. I stuck strictly to my diet 24/7, whereas she dieted Monday through Saturday and made Sundays her 'do what thou wilt' day. Pizza, beer, whatever (within reason). She explained that she didn't want her body to go into starvation mode, so she was keeping 'the mode' a little off balance. I thought she was nuts. Maybe she was ... but after a month I had only lost about 7 pounds ... and she was hot.

Things that make you go 'hmmm' ...

kikilita

Wait, wait, wait. When I first entered all my stuff into MFP, they said they were calculating it based on body fat/height/weight/whatever to determine how I could healthily lose weight and how many calories I should have to help me get there and it was 1200 calories. I always thought that people who were starving themselves were the ones eating like 500-600 calories a day. But, anyway, I'm really confused. Of course, I nearly always go over my calorie goal by 200-400 calories (I TRY not to, but it's hard and I don't log as much as I should).

faithsimmons526

Pretty sure it says 1200 for everyone. Personalized service lol.

A_Warrior_Princess

I agree with you on the 1600 calories or your miserable all day. Me too! I eat moderately, do my exercise and am losing, slowly but I am losing.

kikilita

Pretty sure it says 1200 for everyone. Personalized service lol.

No, me and my friend did it together and she's taller than me and got more calories.

redheaddee

There is a certain amount of calories your body needs for your basic organ function. That would be your BMR. This is the amount of calories the hospital would feed you if you were in a coma. It is truly important not to eat less than that, and yes that may include eating back some exercise calories. It's not a myth.

neanderthin

Wait, wait, wait. When I first entered all my stuff into MFP, they said they were calculating it based on body fat/height/weight/whatever to determine how I could healthily lose weight and how many calories I should have to help me get there and it was 1200 calories. I always thought that people who were starving themselves were the ones eating like 500-600 calories a day. But, anyway, I'm really confused. Of course, I nearly always go over my calorie goal by 200-400 calories (I TRY not to, but it's hard and I don't log as much as I should).

1200 is the default setting. People generally get too aggressive in their expectations of weight loss and want the fat gone by Monday, so MFP slaps their wrist and sets it too 1200.

kimlevin

bump

mzmartens

I think there is some valididty to "starvation mode" you are just straight up using calories and not how the calories are consumed and when, including how it is burnt. For example: I started seeing a nutritionist a couple of months ago, and I could not figure out why i was steadily gaining weight, had dry skin and was losing my hair. Instead of eating my meals throughout the day, I filled up on coffee and pop (no food ever during the day). I was very active running around with two toddlers and running a business. I did NOT sit around and watch TV or stuff my face on chocolate and chips all day. The first thing that entered my mouth would be a small snack at around 5:00pm when I was starting to cook supper, I would eat supper and then that would be it for the night. My supper calories could range anywhere from 800-1200 in that meal alone, well within range. Yet, I kept gaining and gaining, basically, because my body didn't know the next time it was going to get food and so it held on to everything I put in it. It took about 6 weeks to perfect the 3 meal and 2 snacks a day with an 1850 calorie count per day and I ended up losing 17lbs in 30 days. I noticed that my hair started to thicken, my skin statred to repair itself and overall had better energy/Now, I have stalled because of some stressful events, I have found myself falling back into the same eating pattern.

neanderthin

There is a certain amount of calories your body needs for your basic organ function. That would be your BMR. This is the amount of calories the hospital would feed you if you were in a coma. It is truly important not to eat less than that, and yes that may include eating back some exercise calories. It's not a myth.

Not really accurate. Free fatty acids that are liberated during a deficit supply energy and calories. It's the nutrient deficiency when consuming too little that is the problem.